Game 8: Toronto Raptors (1-5) @ Phoenix Suns (5-2) l Wednesday l 7:00pm l FSNAZ

[Adrao]

Big, mobile, versatile 4s like Siakam are still trouble for us. Crowder does a pretty good job with his strength, but the size difference still hurts us.

I still want to see Ayton and Smith playing together against this kind of players.

[darealjuice]

Big, mobile, versatile 4s like Siakam are still trouble for us. Crowder does a pretty good job with his strength, but the size difference still hurts us.

I still want to see Ayton and Smith playing together against this kind of players.

That's definitely the goal. Hopefully he follows the Cam Johnson development curve.

[darealjuice]

This is probably the best defensive team we've faced, at least among their starters, except maybe the Clippers. Utah is tough defensively but that is mostly from the C position....the Raptors and Clips are very tough defensively among pretty much all their starters.

The benches are where they are weaker and where we can exploit more, especially with Toronto. I wouldn't take a win against Toronto that lightly (for the others that do). This is a better team, as you said, than their record....they likely our in that 4-8 seed range, given the east as a whole is tougher, but are still a pretty good team, just one lacking depth.

Going from Gasol and Ibaka to Baynes and Len was a significant downgrade, and they are lacking on the bench. They need OG to take a step forward, but Lowry/FVV/Siakam should be able to keep them fairly competitive. Time might be running out there though.

[Revived]

I think we played good overall but gave up a ton of open 3s again in this one (similar to the Clippers game before). Raptors shot 42% from 3 and that's usually enough for most teams to win but thankfully we were even hotter at 53% to overcome it.

Booker has to get it going. He just seems so frustrated and flustered all season long. He's not able to create any separation what so ever and even the shots he makes are tough difficult shots. He's lost quite a bit of his lateral quickness which is either due to being out of shape or there's an injury they aren't revealing. The only time Booker gets good looks when he's used off ball, when he's trying to dribble it himself it's either a turnover or some very difficult shot attempt.

We certainly are gonna be team that lives and dies by the 3. Bridges wasn't on today and he wasn't that great defensively either as he had trouble guarding Siakam, Lowry and FVV. But our depth is so great that Crowder and Cam were on fire and made up for it. Chances are that next game Bridges will be hot from 3 while Crowder or Cam cool off and we'll still be fine due to the excellent wing depth the team has.

Cam Payne deserves a contract extension as soon as possible. For a player who was once considered the worst basketball player in the entire league by many, he has come such a long way and his story could even be inspiring if he keeps this up.

We haven't clicked fully and it's mainly due to a lack of chemistry between CP3 and Book. But holy hell, we're freaking 6-2 that's damn impressive. To be able to win ball games while still figuring stuff out is extremely fortunate and lot of credit goes to Monty Williams and his staff

[bhawk]

I think we played good overall but gave up a ton of open 3s again in this one (similar to the Clippers game before). Raptors shot 42% from 3 and that's usually enough for most teams to win but thankfully we were even hotter at 53% to overcome it.

Booker has to get it going. He just seems so frustrated and flustered all season long. He's not able to create any separation what so ever and even the shots he makes are tough difficult shots. He's lost quite a bit of his lateral quickness which is either due to being out of shape or there's an injury they aren't revealing. The only time Booker gets good looks when he's used off ball, when he's trying to dribble it himself it's either a turnover or some very difficult shot attempt.

We certainly are gonna be team that lives and dies by the 3. Bridges wasn't on today and he wasn't that great defensively either as he had trouble guarding Siakam, Lowry and FVV. But our depth is so great that Crowder and Cam were on fire and made up for it. Chances are that next game Bridges will be hot from 3 while Crowder or Cam cool off and we'll still be fine due to the excellent wing depth the team has.

Cam Payne deserves a contract extension as soon as possible. For a player who was once considered the worst basketball player in the entire league by many, he has come such a long way and his story could even be inspiring if he keeps this up.

We haven't clicked fully and it's mainly due to a lack of chemistry between CP3 and Book. But holy hell, we're freaking 6-2 that's damn impressive. To be able to win ball games while still figuring stuff out is extremely fortunate and lot of credit goes to Monty Williams and his staff

The "book" is out on Book. It reads press and double whenever possible to force him into dumb turnovers.

[Slim Charless]

This is probably the best defensive team we've faced, at least among their starters, except maybe the Clippers. Utah is tough defensively but that is mostly from the C position....the Raptors and Clips are very tough defensively among pretty much all their starters.

The benches are where they are weaker and where we can exploit more, especially with Toronto. I wouldn't take a win against Toronto that lightly (for the others that do). This is a better team, as you said, than their record....they likely our in that 4-8 seed range, given the east as a whole is tougher, but are still a pretty good team, just one lacking depth.

Going from Gasol and Ibaka to Baynes and Len was a significant downgrade, and they are lacking on the bench. They need OG to take a step forward, but Lowry/FVV/Siakam should be able to keep them fairly competitive. Time might be running out there though.

I think it's just a matter of time before they trade Siakam.

[Jesus_H_Macy]

I think we played good overall but gave up a ton of open 3s again in this one (similar to the Clippers game before). Raptors shot 42% from 3 and that's usually enough for most teams to win but thankfully we were even hotter at 53% to overcome it.

Booker has to get it going. He just seems so frustrated and flustered all season long. He's not able to create any separation what so ever and even the shots he makes are tough difficult shots. He's lost quite a bit of his lateral quickness which is either due to being out of shape or there's an injury they aren't revealing. The only time Booker gets good looks when he's used off ball, when he's trying to dribble it himself it's either a turnover or some very difficult shot attempt.

We certainly are gonna be team that lives and dies by the 3. Bridges wasn't on today and he wasn't that great defensively either as he had trouble guarding Siakam, Lowry and FVV. But our depth is so great that Crowder and Cam were on fire and made up for it. Chances are that next game Bridges will be hot from 3 while Crowder or Cam cool off and we'll still be fine due to the excellent wing depth the team has.

Cam Payne deserves a contract extension as soon as possible. For a player who was once considered the worst basketball player in the entire league by many, he has come such a long way and his story could even be inspiring if he keeps this up.

We haven't clicked fully and it's mainly due to a lack of chemistry between CP3 and Book. But holy hell, we're freaking 6-2 that's damn impressive. To be able to win ball games while still figuring stuff out is extremely fortunate and lot of credit goes to Monty Williams and his staff

The "book" is out on Book. It reads press and double whenever possible to force him into dumb turnovers.

He's pressing too much and trying to force things that aren't there. He's treating too many possessions like it's the last possession of the game. Lot of rock-pounding and slowing things down. He played like this for stretches last season, but I can remember at the beginning of the season he was playing like Bubble Booker and I don't think it's a coincidence those were our best stretches. He'll figure it out, but I'm disappointed that he's not completely over this yet... Definitely could just be a matter of adjusting to the new players and offense though. He just needs to remind himself that he's not the PG. Make quick decisions. If he gets a pass and he's open shoot it, don't dribble.

[bwgood77]

This is probably the best defensive team we've faced, at least among their starters, except maybe the Clippers. Utah is tough defensively but that is mostly from the C position....the Raptors and Clips are very tough defensively among pretty much all their starters.

The benches are where they are weaker and where we can exploit more, especially with Toronto. I wouldn't take a win against Toronto that lightly (for the others that do). This is a better team, as you said, than their record....they likely our in that 4-8 seed range, given the east as a whole is tougher, but are still a pretty good team, just one lacking depth.

Going from Gasol and Ibaka to Baynes and Len was a significant downgrade, and they are lacking on the bench. They need OG to take a step forward, but Lowry/FVV/Siakam should be able to keep them fairly competitive. Time might be running out there though.

I think it's just a matter of time before they trade Siakam.

Why? That would be like Booker making the all star game (not replacement) and 2nd team All NBA next year and then Chris Paul leaving, us not being as good because we lost a great vet in Chris Paul, and then trading Booker if he had a disappointing playoff series and we got off to a bad start in 2 years.

Unless you are thinking of a Harden trade or something, but Pascal seems like a guy you'd want to pair with Harden...though if Harden plays PF maybe not...they would be extremely small though.

Of course Booker would be in his 2nd to last year, and I know a lot of people think he will want out...and if that was a possibility it might make it more probable if we are regressing because Chris Paul is gone.

[NapoleonII]

How much of this Booker struggling stuff a Kardashian's fault?

[bwgood77]

How much of this Booker struggling stuff a Kardashian's fault?

I don't think any. I thought I had read something about Jenner here, though I don't really follow this stuff.

[NE1Care]

How much of this Booker struggling stuff a Kardashian's fault?

I don't think any. I thought I had read something about Jenner here, though I don't really follow this stuff.

Are you thinking a Roy Hobbs and Memo Paris from "The Natural" type of thing?

[Revived]

How much of this Booker struggling stuff a Kardashian's fault?

Well he was partying with them during the short off season time between August and December. I follow him on social media so I see stuff he posts and things he’s tagged in.

Being with a Kardashian or a Jenner seems like a full time job in itself so he probably didn’t have much time to work on basketball related things. Booker’s hardly the first player to struggle with a full time job of dating one of them and you either realize it and break it off or you stay tied in and lose your damn mind like Kanye.

[darealjuice]

I think it's just a matter of time before they trade Siakam.

Why? That would be like Booker making the all star game (not replacement) and 2nd team All NBA next year and then Chris Paul leaving, us not being as good because we lost a great vet in Chris Paul, and then trading Booker if he had a disappointing playoff series and we got off to a bad start in 2 years.

Unless you are thinking of a Harden trade or something, but Pascal seems like a guy you'd want to pair with Harden...though if Harden plays PF maybe not...they would be extremely small though.

Of course Booker would be in his 2nd to last year, and I know a lot of people think he will want out...and if that was a possibility it might make it more probable if we are regressing because Chris Paul is gone.

Raptors are in a weird place right now. They have minimal young talent, Lowry is aging and up for a new contract, Powell has a player option coming up, and they've stagnated a bit while the rest of the East has built up. If they continue to struggle, it might make sense for them to start fielding offers on guys and look towards the future. We already know they're not going to be as good as last year's team.

[bwgood77]

I think it's just a matter of time before they trade Siakam.

Why? That would be like Booker making the all star game (not replacement) and 2nd team All NBA next year and then Chris Paul leaving, us not being as good because we lost a great vet in Chris Paul, and then trading Booker if he had a disappointing playoff series and we got off to a bad start in 2 years.

Unless you are thinking of a Harden trade or something, but Pascal seems like a guy you'd want to pair with Harden...though if Harden plays PF maybe not...they would be extremely small though.

Of course Booker would be in his 2nd to last year, and I know a lot of people think he will want out...and if that was a possibility it might make it more probable if we are regressing because Chris Paul is gone.

Raptors are in a weird place right now. They have minimal young talent, Lowry is aging and up for a new contract, Powell has a player option coming up, and they've stagnated a bit while the rest of the East has built up. If they continue to struggle, it might make sense for them to start fielding offers on guys and look towards the future. We already know they're not going to be as good as last year's team.

I can definitely see that side, but it's something tough to navigate with two young studs. It will be interesting to see where they are...538 has them right in the 4-8 range in their projections (at least before this game).....which is basically where we are in the west (3-8).

I just don't know what you are looking for if you trade a guy like Pascal. He seems like the kind of player you want today unless he just really continues to regress, which, in that case, he might not be tradeable for much given the contract. But if he just gets back to where he was a couple of years ago and the beginning of last year, he was way up there...even finishing the year in the 2nd Team All NBA is impressive (though not sure he should have been that high..but the people who watch a lot closer than I do felt that way).

Lowry is a tough one. He has been such a cornerstone..I think the only way you can trade him is if you bite the bullet and roll the dice on a guy like Wiggins...GS could use a huge expiring and some help this year until Klay gets back next year...and they clear a ton of space.

I don't think that happens, but I just don't know what they can do with him. Ideally if they don't re-sign him again, and he's getting old, it might be worth re-signing him or trying to do a S&T.

One thing they could do to address their frontcourt is trade him for Horford. They shouldn't have to give up extra to OKC since they would be taking salary and giving OKC cap relief and a better player....maybe even try and get back George Hill.

I wonder if they'd be better with a Hill/FVV/Anunoby/Siakam/Horford lineup.

[Slim Charless]

I think it's just a matter of time before they trade Siakam.

Why? That would be like Booker making the all star game (not replacement) and 2nd team All NBA next year and then Chris Paul leaving, us not being as good because we lost a great vet in Chris Paul, and then trading Booker if he had a disappointing playoff series and we got off to a bad start in 2 years.

Unless you are thinking of a Harden trade or something, but Pascal seems like a guy you'd want to pair with Harden...though if Harden plays PF maybe not...they would be extremely small though.

Of course Booker would be in his 2nd to last year, and I know a lot of people think he will want out...and if that was a possibility it might make it more probable if we are regressing because Chris Paul is gone.

Raptors are in a weird place right now. They have minimal young talent, Lowry is aging and up for a new contract, Powell has a player option coming up, and they've stagnated a bit while the rest of the East has built up. If they continue to struggle, it might make sense for them to start fielding offers on guys and look towards the future. We already know they're not going to be as good as last year's team.

This. I made a thread about it in trade forum but basically, despite his game against us I don't really think that he's a #1 option. Pascal is best as a number 2 or even 3 guy on a championship team. I suggested, trading him to GS for Wiseman, Wiggins and the Minny pick. Siakam would be a monster teamed with Steph and a in theory fully healthy Klay.

Another team that could use him is Denver if they didn't really trust MPJ to fully stay upright. He'd fit in there great filling the boxes and taking the leftovers from JM and Joker.

Lastly, I would've said-before this season is us. Sending him for Ayton and playing Smith at the 5 would be interesting. He could handle the backup scoring behind Booker. That was then though, now I think I'll see how this goes with DA as we might have a yearly All-Defense guy on the squad who can still get 15-20 points imo.

[nevetsov]

Would have said Lowry for Vooch, but not if the magic are 2nd in the east.

[bwgood77]

Would have said Lowry for Vooch, but not if the magic are 2nd in the east.

Well, that was with Fultz playing well. The Magic do have a ton of bigs, but most don't seem to be really ready yet...then Isaac is injured, but they also have Bamba, Khem Birch and last year's draft pick Chuma Okeke. Not sure how good any of these guys are yet though. Birch put up decent numbers the other night.

I've noticed Gordon is playing really well.

But Vucevic is good....too good to trade for Lowry...I mean he's not as good as Lowry but he's still relatively young and productive. I mentioned Horford because the contract isn't that good and OKC has no reason for him...but he could be useful for Toronto.

[darealjuice]

I can definitely see that side, but it's something tough to navigate with two young studs. It will be interesting to see where they are...538 has them right in the 4-8 range in their projections (at least before this game).....which is basically where we are in the west (3-8).

I just don't know what you are looking for if you trade a guy like Pascal. He seems like the kind of player you want today unless he just really continues to regress, which, in that case, he might not be tradeable for much given the contract. But if he just gets back to where he was a couple of years ago and the beginning of last year, he was way up there...even finishing the year in the 2nd Team All NBA is impressive (though not sure he should have been that high..but the people who watch a lot closer than I do felt that way).

Lowry is a tough one. He has been such a cornerstone..I think the only way you can trade him is if you bite the bullet and roll the dice on a guy like Wiggins...GS could use a huge expiring and some help this year until Klay gets back next year...and they clear a ton of space.

I don't think that happens, but I just don't know what they can do with him. Ideally if they don't re-sign him again, and he's getting old, it might be worth re-signing him or trying to do a S&T.

One thing they could do to address their frontcourt is trade him for Horford. They shouldn't have to give up extra to OKC since they would be taking salary and giving OKC cap relief and a better player....maybe even try and get back George Hill.

I wonder if they'd be better with a Hill/FVV/Anunoby/Siakam/Horford lineup.

I just don't see Siakam and FVV being a duo that takes you deep in the playoffs, but bringing back Lowry would hamstring their cap assuming he gets paid well. I don't know if they'd feel like it's necessary to blow up a 4-8 seed though, even if the ceiling is capped.

Siakam for a good rookie contract, a couple picks, and filler contracts would make sense to me. They're probably not getting a high lottery pick unless they wait until the offseason and hope for a bad team to try making a jump, but I'm sure a mid-tier team would be interested at the deadline. FVV would probably be a similar scenario with less value. Lowry's tough because he makes a lot of money and contenders will be the only ones to give up value for him, but they should still be able to get value from his expiring.

I think that line-up would be interesting because it'd open up the paint for Siakam a lot, but I don't think Lowry's impact can be understated. He's a huge part of that team staying competitive.

[wheezy]

Would have said Lowry for Vooch, but not if the magic are 2nd in the east.

Well, that was with Fultz playing well. The Magic do have a ton of bigs, but most don't seem to be really ready yet...then Isaac is injured, but they also have Bamba, Khem Birch and last year's draft pick Chuma Okeke. Not sure how good any of these guys are yet though. Birch put up decent numbers the other night.

I've noticed Gordon is playing really well.

But Vucevic is good....too good to trade for Lowry...I mean he's not as good as Lowry but he's still relatively young and productive. I mentioned Horford because the contract isn't that good and OKC has no reason for him...but he could be useful for Toronto.

Khem Birch is solid. Lowkey one of the better backup bigs in the league, which is part of why its been hard for them to find time for Bamba.

[bwgood77]

Would have said Lowry for Vooch, but not if the magic are 2nd in the east.

Well, that was with Fultz playing well. The Magic do have a ton of bigs, but most don't seem to be really ready yet...then Isaac is injured, but they also have Bamba, Khem Birch and last year's draft pick Chuma Okeke. Not sure how good any of these guys are yet though. Birch put up decent numbers the other night.

I've noticed Gordon is playing really well.

But Vucevic is good....too good to trade for Lowry...I mean he's not as good as Lowry but he's still relatively young and productive. I mentioned Horford because the contract isn't that good and OKC has no reason for him...but he could be useful for Toronto.

Khem Birch is solid. Lowkey one of the better backup bigs in the league, which is part of why its been hard for them to find time for Bamba.

I did pick him up in fantasy recently after noticing a nice game.