Moderators: dms269, Jamaaliver, HMFFL
myrak433 wrote:jayu70 wrote:Skin wrote:Who's more right though... Trae or John?
*asking for a friend*
Ha. They both need each other right now.
Trae has to manage his scoring as well as running the offense.
I like Collins but I would trade him in a heartbeat if there is conflict and/or drama with Trae.
tbhawksfan1 wrote:JC is on my ish list for not coming to a deal. I'm on record stating that he likely shot himself in the foot. He likely will get more money but at the cost of situation.
This is Trae's team. JC better understand that or his already over-blown image of his own value will take a big hit.
Trae needs to be bigger than this. JC is unhappy, tough boobs. This team goes where Trae goes and he has tons of help without JC.
Now best is they work it out. Interesting nothing said about Pierce in all this. He may be on the same bus as JC quite soon if things don't improve
jayu70 wrote:tbhawksfan1 wrote:JC is on my ish list for not coming to a deal. I'm on record stating that he likely shot himself in the foot. He likely will get more money but at the cost of situation.
This is Trae's team. JC better understand that or his already over-blown image of his own value will take a big hit.
Trae needs to be bigger than this. JC is unhappy, tough boobs. This team goes where Trae goes and he has tons of help without JC.
Now best is they work it out. Interesting nothing said about Pierce in all this. He may be on the same bus as JC quite soon if things don't improve
It really helps to read the entire article if you are able
https://theathletic.com/2307304/2021/01/08/atlanta-hawks-john-collins-trae-young/?amp#click=https://t.co/hmjejG2UgB
I can't post the entire article, sorry! More:tbhawksfan1 wrote:jayu70 wrote:tbhawksfan1 wrote:JC is on my ish list for not coming to a deal. I'm on record stating that he likely shot himself in the foot. He likely will get more money but at the cost of situation.
This is Trae's team. JC better understand that or his already over-blown image of his own value will take a big hit.
Trae needs to be bigger than this. JC is unhappy, tough boobs. This team goes where Trae goes and he has tons of help without JC.
Now best is they work it out. Interesting nothing said about Pierce in all this. He may be on the same bus as JC quite soon if things don't improve
It really helps to read the entire article if you are able
https://theathletic.com/2307304/2021/01/08/atlanta-hawks-john-collins-trae-young/?amp#click=https://t.co/hmjejG2UgB
No subscription. Just going by what's being said.
Others see Collins’ views differently, claiming his focus in the film session was on the need for Young to maximize the deep roster of talent that now surrounds him.
Some Hawks have agreed with Collins’ stance and believe when he’s featured more, the team plays much better. After Collins spoke up in the team’s film session, the message from the coaching staff was that the Hawks have to do a better job of making opposing teams work on defense because of the offensive weapons they now have, and settling on bad looks early in the shot clock is not a recipe for success.
But Young is not the only Hawks player who has been frustrated with Pierce at times, as multiple players have questioned his in-game decisions at various times since he was hired in 2018. In the loss to Cleveland on Saturday, the second unit blew an 11-point lead as the starters sat for seven minutes. Pierce was asked why he left the bench players in for so long and said he actually brought in the starters earlier than what he normally would in the fourth quarter.
His answer speaks to another point of contention some players have with Pierce: a perceived lack of accountability in the media. On multiple occasions last season, Pierce’s penchant for saying the team had no energy and “didn’t compete” wasn’t received well by some players. The undercurrent, it seems, is a sense from some players that the coaching staff isn’t willing enough to share the responsibility on nights when they fall short.
jayu70 wrote:I can't post the entire article, sorry! More:tbhawksfan1 wrote:jayu70 wrote:It really helps to read the entire article if you are able
https://theathletic.com/2307304/2021/01/08/atlanta-hawks-john-collins-trae-young/?amp#click=https://t.co/hmjejG2UgB
No subscription. Just going by what's being said.Others see Collins’ views differently, claiming his focus in the film session was on the need for Young to maximize the deep roster of talent that now surrounds him.
Some Hawks have agreed with Collins’ stance and believe when he’s featured more, the team plays much better. After Collins spoke up in the team’s film session, the message from the coaching staff was that the Hawks have to do a better job of making opposing teams work on defense because of the offensive weapons they now have, and settling on bad looks early in the shot clock is not a recipe for success.
On LP:But Young is not the only Hawks player who has been frustrated with Pierce at times, as multiple players have questioned his in-game decisions at various times since he was hired in 2018. In the loss to Cleveland on Saturday, the second unit blew an 11-point lead as the starters sat for seven minutes. Pierce was asked why he left the bench players in for so long and said he actually brought in the starters earlier than what he normally would in the fourth quarter.
His answer speaks to another point of contention some players have with Pierce: a perceived lack of accountability in the media. On multiple occasions last season, Pierce’s penchant for saying the team had no energy and “didn’t compete” wasn’t received well by some players. The undercurrent, it seems, is a sense from some players that the coaching staff isn’t willing enough to share the responsibility on nights when they fall short.
tbhawksfan1 wrote:jayu70 wrote:I can't post the entire article, sorry! More:tbhawksfan1 wrote:
No subscription. Just going by what's being said.Others see Collins’ views differently, claiming his focus in the film session was on the need for Young to maximize the deep roster of talent that now surrounds him.
Some Hawks have agreed with Collins’ stance and believe when he’s featured more, the team plays much better. After Collins spoke up in the team’s film session, the message from the coaching staff was that the Hawks have to do a better job of making opposing teams work on defense because of the offensive weapons they now have, and settling on bad looks early in the shot clock is not a recipe for success.
On LP:But Young is not the only Hawks player who has been frustrated with Pierce at times, as multiple players have questioned his in-game decisions at various times since he was hired in 2018. In the loss to Cleveland on Saturday, the second unit blew an 11-point lead as the starters sat for seven minutes. Pierce was asked why he left the bench players in for so long and said he actually brought in the starters earlier than what he normally would in the fourth quarter.
His answer speaks to another point of contention some players have with Pierce: a perceived lack of accountability in the media. On multiple occasions last season, Pierce’s penchant for saying the team had no energy and “didn’t compete” wasn’t received well by some players. The undercurrent, it seems, is a sense from some players that the coaching staff isn’t willing enough to share the responsibility on nights when they fall short.
Thanks for posting this
As I said I want Trae to mature. JC has value this season and Trae needs to be the general that gets the most out of all the assets. As for Pierce. I need to see more from him
tbhawksfan1 wrote:"We need more from everyone. The first 5 games were what we can be, the last 3 were disastrous. Can't score, can't defend, suspect rotations....it had it all."
Yeah kinda Jeckel & Hyde thing. It was obvious that something was up. Hope they can come together and play as a team. A lot of youth to deal with
personanongrata wrote:myrak433 wrote:jayu70 wrote:Ha. They both need each other right now.
Trae has to manage his scoring as well as running the offense.
I like Collins but I would trade him in a heartbeat if there is conflict and/or drama with Trae.
Let's be Rockets East. Where our star makes sure anyone that questions his ball dominance is quickly traded away. Great idea.
myrak433 wrote:We still need a legit 2nd scorer. Lavine, Beal, DeRozan.
Jamaaliver wrote:myrak433 wrote:We still need a legit 2nd scorer. Lavine, Beal, DeRozan.
There's a chance...that we still need a legit 1st scorer.
dms269 wrote:I am curious where is John expecting to go where he will be the primary person and not have to deal with a guy who wants to take all the shots?
Sent from my SM-G975U using RealGM mobile app
shakes0 wrote:...JC wouldn't take $90 million. Would he have taken $100 million? Is it really worth saving $10 million to risk messing up an entire season where we are expected to make a run at a decent playoff seed?...
myrak433 wrote:I believe in order for JC max to be 132M he had to be named to an All-Star team, or a All-NBA team twice, or been the MVP. JC has not done any of that so his max would be 25% of the cap (anually) which is 108M (now I am guessing). so a max for JC would be about 100M (104M) for 4 years.
myrak433 wrote:We still need a legit 2nd scorer. Lavine, Beal, DeRozan.
D21 wrote:I said it last season : it was set to happen because we didn't have a roster full enough to avoid having young guys putting high individual stats in a loosing team.
Better have some veterans who can play a bit to play the young guys in a team full enough to match a contender roster, even if talent is lower.
Is written that once the roster would be build to be a playoffs team, and even more like a contender, that John would get less touches, especially if a good C playing inside was added because Trae would give him the ball too.
The thing that had to be fixed is that the coach has to make Trae not being upset by this, and convince John that he will get a higher offer if they win, not that if he's getting the same stats from last season and they are not winning.shakes0 wrote:...JC wouldn't take $90 million. Would he have taken $100 million? Is it really worth saving $10 million to risk messing up an entire season where we are expected to make a run at a decent playoff seed?...
Yes, they should have offer a bit more, more than 100M because it's a psychological barrier.
I thought he should not get more than Sabonis, but would have been OK for a bit more if it was a decreasing contract.myrak433 wrote:I believe in order for JC max to be 132M he had to be named to an All-Star team, or a All-NBA team twice, or been the MVP. JC has not done any of that so his max would be 25% of the cap (anually) which is 108M (now I am guessing). so a max for JC would be about 100M (104M) for 4 years.
If I'm not wrong, his Max was the same than Mitchell or Fox, so 163M/5yrs
The increased amount coming from All-Star or All NBA teams make it even higher (NBA first team, deal goes to $196 million, second NBA team, $183 million, third NBA team $170 million).myrak433 wrote:We still need a legit 2nd scorer. Lavine, Beal, DeRozan.
I'm not agreeing at all, they are the kind of player that scores, but didn't prove anything about winning. They are bad in team defense, more than they're good in offense
myrak433 wrote:Mitchell has made and all-NBA team, was an all-star, and won the slam dunk contest once. So why would JC get the same contract as him?
