[WOJ/SHAMS] 4 Way Blockbuster, Harden to BK, Prince and Allen to Cavs, Oladipo, Exum, Picks to Hou, Levert to Ind

Moderators: Domejandro, infinite11285, Harry Garris, ken6199, Dirk, bisme37, KingDavid, bwgood77, zimpy27, cupcakesnake

Spanish_Laker
Lead Assistant
Posts: 4,672
And1: 2,010
Joined: Jan 27, 2007
   

Re: [WOJ/SHAMS] 4 Way Blockbuster, Harden to BK, Prince and Allen to Cavs, Oladipo, Exum, Picks to Hou, Levert to Ind 

Post#721 » by Spanish_Laker » Thu Jan 14, 2021 10:20 am

And I thought Kevin Durant left Golden State to earn his first title without a massive superteam around.
Banned after 15 years in this forum for no reason. Farewell RealGM users
slicedbread2
Analyst
Posts: 3,451
And1: 2,714
Joined: Jan 23, 2014

Re: [WOJ/SHAMS] 4 Way Blockbuster, Harden to BK, Prince and Allen to Cavs, Oladipo, Exum, Picks to Hou, Levert to Ind 

Post#722 » by slicedbread2 » Thu Jan 14, 2021 10:22 am

HurricaneKid wrote:Dipo literally spent the offseason on the trading block and no one bit. No one wants to pay him next year. So rather than take current All NBA and 23 yr old Simmons they dump salary and HOPEFULLY get a few decent picks 5 and 6 years from now?

Fertitta might just be the worst owner in pro sports.

Sent from my SM-G955U using RealGM mobile app


This dude is one petty prick.

This is what we call cutting the nose off your face to spite your enemy. Tightwad Tillman let the personal get in the way of the professional. If he was smart and was trying to save money, he could've dumped Eric Gordon onto the Cavaliers with Prince+Allen and received a 1st and a couple 2nds for Drummond+Exum if he was so hellbent on clearing cap space. The Cavs wouldn't have had a problem with that deal knowing that Gordon's last year isn't guaranteed and his final guaranteed year expires at the same time as Love+Nance jr not to mention the fact that Cleveland generally doesn't attract FA's and those 3 aforementioned deals expire at the same time that Garland+Sexton's deals are up for renewal.

Another move they should've done was separate the Morey drama and take the Simmons+Thybulle+Maxey+2-3 1sts and salary filler. Then they could've done the following to ensure the cheapskate owner got his wish whilst trying to build better for the future:

-Flip Simmons to Minnesota. The T-Wolves have glaringly shown that they need a PF and Simmons would've solved a lot of their issues defensively. They could've asked for a package of Rubio+Edwards+Culver/other prospects+filler+3 1sts whilst sending P.J. Tucker and maybe Danuel House Jr. to Minnesota as well to try and squeeze more value.
-Flip Ricky Rubio to the Clippers in exchange for Lou Williams+Kabengele+Jackson+Patterson+Terrance Mann and 4 2nds(POR 23+Detroit's 2nds). The Clippers could fill their 3 open roster spots with 10 day guys or g-league players and the Rockets would've gotten a decent haul of picks to try and replenish the stock of picks. Another plot to this is that the Clippers fill their glaring hole at the point where they get their floor general in Rubio to help with the half court set and could be the final piece to the puzzle whilst potentially sabotaging the future picks the Clips owe to OKC.
-Build up Wood and Wall's value. Let Wall stay healthy and make him look good and maybe a team will bite on him if his body holds up. If Wood can prove his play isn't a flash in the pan, you'll have plenty of suitors calling for him ex. Charlotte or any team looking for a starting C.

I know this wouldn't have been the greatest, but my god I feel for the Houston GM who had his hands tied and was dealing with Tillman probably yelling in his ear to get under the luxury tax and save money. My proposed scenario at least you could sell hope to the fan base with a young guy like Edwards who'd be under team control for a while and you'd be getting picks from multiple teams instead of relying on Brooklyn where they are in a prime location and can easily get players to come whereas Philly and Minnesota aren't exactly hot spots for FA.

Instead they are praying on someone to cast a voodoo spell on the Nets. Barring Durant getting injured(don't wish ill on anyone), the Nets will more than likely win some rings. The Nets were champions in the ABA with Dr. J, but their run in the NBA has been forgettable outside Petrovic+Jason Kidd and the false hope that Billy King laid out. Joseph Tsai is hoping to accomplish what Mikhail Prohkorov could not: winning the NBA title.

The only thing that can go wrong is Kyrie going rogue which is possible due to his head being all over the place and his ego certainly will not be happy being a 3rd option+KD and Harden won't take 3rd fiddle so that'll be interesting to see how it plays out. Plus all 3 can be FA's at the end of next season so if they don't win a ring by then, it's a free for all at that point. KD's ego would never recover from such a collapse and the way Kyrie's been acting, I would laugh off a bridge if the Nets were to collapse this year the way the Clippers did in the bubble. The memes would be worse than ever.
User avatar
The_Ghost_of_JB
RealGM
Posts: 21,936
And1: 17,680
Joined: Mar 04, 2010
Location: In a van down by the river.
   

Re: [WOJ/SHAMS] 4 Way Blockbuster, Harden to BK, Prince and Allen to Cavs, Oladipo, Exum, Picks to Hou, Levert to Ind 

Post#723 » by The_Ghost_of_JB » Thu Jan 14, 2021 12:33 pm

XTC wrote:
The_Ghost_of_JB wrote:
John Murdoch wrote:Looking at this from Indys perspective..they must have known either Victor wasnt the same player or he wasnt going to re-sign . Either way they win imo. Nets sacrifice all depth basically but will be attractive for guys in the buyout market and they are an offensive juggernaut now. Rockets ..i get that they were in a tough spot but taking this deal over simmons/thybul/picks is pretty gross tbh..also why not demand Jarret Allen? All in all kinda hard not to say everyone basically gangbanged houston



Rockets traded Harden to the nets because that is where he wanted to be. Owners no longer have any power and if a player wants to be traded to certain team the owners are pretty much required to do so.


So why did Kawhi end up on the Raps when he was forcing his way to the LA?

Houston dropped the ball. Fertilla gonna Fertilla

SMH :roll: :)


Asking price was too high and the clippers we're smart enough not to gut their whole team when they know full well he was just going to flat out sign there a year later.

When all is said and done these guys end up playing with their friends or get traded to the team they want so they can create a super team and the owners are completely helpless to stop it.
*Insert witty signature here.*
Packbuckman
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,817
And1: 787
Joined: Oct 02, 2019
     

Re: [WOJ/SHAMS] 4 Way Blockbuster, Harden to BK, Prince and Allen to Cavs, Oladipo, Exum, Picks to Hou, Levert to Ind 

Post#724 » by Packbuckman » Thu Jan 14, 2021 12:48 pm

Brooklyn91 wrote:
Thanos1985 wrote:Nba is all about matcups.
Miami is bad match up for Bucks . Miami defence is bad match up for Giannis. But this nets defence is 40+points game for giannis in 70% fg.
Holiday on harden and Giannis on Kd will slow them.

Still i fear more butler adebayo and igudala wall and defencive iq of Miami more than nets.

Kyrie and Harris are going to go bezerk on the Bucks :lol:


Holiday on Kyrie Middleton on Harden Giannis on Durant Donte on Harris Lopez on Jordan I like those matchups for the bucks. Plus this bucks team shoots way better than last years team. Leads the league in 3 point shooting that’s not going to change with that nets D.
User avatar
RyderMike
Assistant Coach
Posts: 3,869
And1: 6,799
Joined: Dec 06, 2012

Re: [WOJ/SHAMS] 4 Way Blockbuster, Harden to BK, Prince and Allen to Cavs, Oladipo, Exum, Picks to Hou, Levert to Ind 

Post#725 » by RyderMike » Thu Jan 14, 2021 12:52 pm

Brooklyn91 wrote:
RyderMike wrote:KD went from

KD-Westbrook-Harden
to
KD-Curry-Thompson-Draymond
to
KD-Harden-Kyrie


and he wonders why he doesn't get credit for wins

Westbrook was drafted to OKC and so was harden give me a break

Lebron started this whole “prime superstars play with each other” bs and y’all made KD beating him at it. KD/Harden/Kyrie big 3 is is not that drastically different that Prime MVP Lebron, Dwade, who 3rd in MVP voting, and a scoring champ, and a 20/11 guy in Bosh. Sick of the double standards

Bron fans were drooling at the idea of Kawhi joining Bron and AD in 2019 but want to be mad at this


I know they were drafted and I won't take issue with the okc team. What I mean is that, for a player who likes to claim he has proven he is the best in the league, he hasn't, because he's never been on a successful team without at least two other all stars.

Of course, fans want more superstars to join their teams. If I could get three superstars on my team I would be salivating. However, with that said, it's easy to recognize that that kills competitive parity in the league.

Notice I didn't mention Lebron in my original post. He's just as bad as KD with his having to be on super teams and outright recruiting and manipulation of them.
PistolPeteJR
RealGM
Posts: 10,342
And1: 9,169
Joined: Jun 14, 2017
 

Re: [WOJ/SHAMS] 4 Way Blockbuster, Harden to BK, Prince and Allen to Cavs, Oladipo, Exum, Picks to Hou, Levert to Ind 

Post#726 » by PistolPeteJR » Thu Jan 14, 2021 1:14 pm

The_Ghost_of_JB wrote:
PistolPeteJR wrote:
Hello Brooklyn wrote:
If LeBron could have gotten Harden he would have signed off yesterday. Stop being salty.


Source?


Do we really need sources for this? LeBron James has been assembling or playing on super teams for the past 11 seasons. He's absolutely the reason why the NBA is in the shape it's in now.


Last I checked, "superteam" is not restricted to a player or players forming them; therefore, they've been around WAY longer than that.
ChampionRed
Assistant Coach
Posts: 4,493
And1: 881
Joined: Oct 15, 2005

Re: [WOJ/SHAMS] 4 Way Blockbuster, Harden to BK, Prince and Allen to Cavs, Oladipo, Exum, Picks to Hou, Levert to Ind 

Post#727 » by ChampionRed » Thu Jan 14, 2021 1:17 pm

PistolPeteJR wrote:
The_Ghost_of_JB wrote:
PistolPeteJR wrote:
Source?


Do we really need sources for this? LeBron James has been assembling or playing on super teams for the past 11 seasons. He's absolutely the reason why the NBA is in the shape it's in now.


Last I checked, "superteam" is not restricted to a player or players forming them; therefore, they've been around WAY longer than that.


I think the point he's trying to make is that while super teams have been assembled prior to Lebron, Lebron was the first player who was most public about recruiting players to sign and play with him. Either way, I agree that "super teams" in the sense of multiple all-stars on the same team, have been around for a long time.
PistolPeteJR
RealGM
Posts: 10,342
And1: 9,169
Joined: Jun 14, 2017
 

Re: [WOJ/SHAMS] 4 Way Blockbuster, Harden to BK, Prince and Allen to Cavs, Oladipo, Exum, Picks to Hou, Levert to Ind 

Post#728 » by PistolPeteJR » Thu Jan 14, 2021 1:37 pm

narmerguy wrote:
levon wrote:
gabri3l3 wrote:
Bruised by who ? So you're gonna a keep big on the floor with Durant at the 5? Suicide

There isn't a team in the league that puts more pressure on the rim than the Lakers. They're bigger than most teams at almost every position, and Lebron and AD are coming for the rim every time.

AD ends up guarding the top of the key 3 and is catching the cross-court pass to finish it or go to the line on the other end.


Lebron ain't what he used to be, no idea what he'll look like with another year. He and AD have to both play at MVP levels for the Lakers to win, they don't have a reliable third guy who can attack.


The guy just proved he's still the guy around three months ago. Again with this baseless narrative? :noway:
kuclas
General Manager
Posts: 7,606
And1: 3,847
Joined: Nov 08, 2016
     

Re: [WOJ/SHAMS] 4 Way Blockbuster, Harden to BK, Prince and Allen to Cavs, Oladipo, Exum, Picks to Hou, Levert to Ind 

Post#729 » by kuclas » Thu Jan 14, 2021 1:39 pm

So all Houston gets is 4 future unprotected first plus 4 draft picks (essentially 3 draft picks since 2021-2022 Rockets won't be better than 2021-2022 Nets). and expiring Victor Oladipo.

This shows you Houston was not able to get a young 'star" player. They got greedy. I'm sure Boston or Philly would have offer any of their role players plus the same draft picks.

All Houston has is wishing the Nets implode after the 2022 season with Harden/KD/Irving walking away. If they don't walk away, the Rockets are looking at no draft swaps till at least 2025 that is any value. And 2 future first late 1st round picks.

The Nets didn't trade for 36/37 year old KG/Paul Pierce here. They got 28 year old Irving/32 year old KD/31 year old Harden. These guys with modern NBA load management can easily play 4 years together at or near their peak. counting on an implosion is wishful thinking.
LivingLegend
Head Coach
Posts: 6,990
And1: 7,745
Joined: Jul 30, 2015

Re: [WOJ/SHAMS] 4 Way Blockbuster, Harden to BK, Prince and Allen to Cavs, Oladipo, Exum, Picks to Hou, Levert to Ind 

Post#730 » by LivingLegend » Thu Jan 14, 2021 1:45 pm

Spanish_Laker wrote:And I thought Kevin Durant left Golden State to earn his first title without a massive superteam around.


Yeah, I dont know if any player in NBA history has played with more talent around him than Durant. Literally since he was a young player he had guys like Harden, Westbrook and Ibaka--then it was to GS with Curry, Klay and Green and now its in BKN with Kyrie and Harden

Sort of ridiculous
JJ_PR
Analyst
Posts: 3,264
And1: 2,714
Joined: Mar 19, 2015
   

Re: [WOJ/SHAMS] 4 Way Blockbuster, Harden to BK, Prince and Allen to Cavs, Oladipo, Exum, Picks to Hou, Levert to Ind 

Post#731 » by JJ_PR » Thu Jan 14, 2021 1:48 pm

LivingLegend wrote:
Spanish_Laker wrote:And I thought Kevin Durant left Golden State to earn his first title without a massive superteam around.


Yeah, I dont know if any player in NBA history has played with more talent around him than Durant. Literally since he was a young player he had guys like Harden, Westbrook and Ibaka--then it was to GS with Curry, Klay and Green and now its in BKN with Kyrie and Harden

Sort of ridiculous


The only way you win titles is by stacking the deck. Go ask LeBron if you think otherwise.
donnieme
Head Coach
Posts: 6,382
And1: 7,143
Joined: Feb 27, 2012

Re: [WOJ/SHAMS] 4 Way Blockbuster, Harden to BK, Prince and Allen to Cavs, Oladipo, Exum, Picks to Hou, Levert to Ind 

Post#732 » by donnieme » Thu Jan 14, 2021 1:53 pm

N Ireland Nets wrote:As a long time Nets fan I have no clue what Houston is doing. They should've just kept LeVert and Allen which would've given them Wall/Gordon/LeVert/Wood/Allen with some quality bench pieces as well. It must be the Rockets owner not wanting to spend money with tied the GM's arms somewhat.

Pacers made a great deal to take LeVert with a quality contract with time left on his deal.

Love the trade for Cavs. They got Allen for Exum a late first from Bucks and taking on Prince's contract...absolute robbery. Allen is only 22 years old and is a fantastic center prospect, love the guy. They should re-sign him in the summer and build with their young guards Allen and the 2021 pick but great trade by Cavs.

I'm super happy as a Nets fan. We are trying to win a championship so couldn't care less about the draft picks. We gave up 3 1st round picks and pick swaps but I believe Nets will re-sign Irving, Harden and KD in 2023 so it will work out a 5-6 year window of contention. For the pick swaps to be a problem we would have to be worse than the Rockets which again I don't see happening.

Can't wait to see Harden Irving and KD play together.

Yeah there are other ways to rebuild besides the draft. Celtics fleeced you and it certainly looks like you're heading back to the finals before them
zshawn10
Assistant Coach
Posts: 4,410
And1: 4,338
Joined: Jul 27, 2015
     

Re: [WOJ/SHAMS] 4 Way Blockbuster, Harden to BK, Prince and Allen to Cavs, Oladipo, Exum, Picks to Hou, Levert to Ind 

Post#733 » by zshawn10 » Thu Jan 14, 2021 1:55 pm

God Squad wrote:
HEKTOR wrote:I don't understand why the Rockets didn't take Allen in this deal? Wouldn't he have been a great fit in their front-court next to Wood?

This is what doesn't make sense for me also. Still trying to understand because in my mind Allen is one of the better players in this deal, especially considering his useage.


Because he’s seeking like a 3/60M deal after this season
LivingLegend
Head Coach
Posts: 6,990
And1: 7,745
Joined: Jul 30, 2015

Re: [WOJ/SHAMS] 4 Way Blockbuster, Harden to BK, Prince and Allen to Cavs, Oladipo, Exum, Picks to Hou, Levert to Ind 

Post#734 » by LivingLegend » Thu Jan 14, 2021 2:02 pm

JJ_PR wrote:
LivingLegend wrote:
Spanish_Laker wrote:And I thought Kevin Durant left Golden State to earn his first title without a massive superteam around.


Yeah, I dont know if any player in NBA history has played with more talent around him than Durant. Literally since he was a young player he had guys like Harden, Westbrook and Ibaka--then it was to GS with Curry, Klay and Green and now its in BKN with Kyrie and Harden

Sort of ridiculous


The only way you win titles is by stacking the deck. Go ask LeBron if you think otherwise.


Not saying thats not true, but LeBron for his first 7 years had Zydrunas Ilgauskas and Boobie Gibson, not James Harden and Russel Westbrook.
PistolPeteJR
RealGM
Posts: 10,342
And1: 9,169
Joined: Jun 14, 2017
 

Re: [WOJ/SHAMS] 4 Way Blockbuster, Harden to BK, Prince and Allen to Cavs, Oladipo, Exum, Picks to Hou, Levert to Ind 

Post#735 » by PistolPeteJR » Thu Jan 14, 2021 2:33 pm

The_Ghost_of_JB wrote:
LUKE23 wrote:Does this really make the Nets favorites over the Bucks in the East? Bucks currently have the best offense in the NBA and are strong defensively at every spot in the starting five. They also matchup very well with BKN (Holiday on Irving, DiVencenzo or Middleton on Harden, Giannis on Durant).

Bucks play both sides of the ball. That matters. And Giannis is going to absolutely destroy the Nets as well.


Bucks are absolutely awful in the playoffs and constantly get bounced by lower seeded teams.

Nets would win in 5 games easily.


The Bucks have been getting bounced by terrific defensive squads/schemes. The Nets have neither right now.
PistolPeteJR
RealGM
Posts: 10,342
And1: 9,169
Joined: Jun 14, 2017
 

Re: [WOJ/SHAMS] 4 Way Blockbuster, Harden to BK, Prince and Allen to Cavs, Oladipo, Exum, Picks to Hou, Levert to Ind 

Post#736 » by PistolPeteJR » Thu Jan 14, 2021 2:37 pm

Packbuckman wrote:
Brooklyn91 wrote:
Thanos1985 wrote:Nba is all about matcups.
Miami is bad match up for Bucks . Miami defence is bad match up for Giannis. But this nets defence is 40+points game for giannis in 70% fg.
Holiday on harden and Giannis on Kd will slow them.

Still i fear more butler adebayo and igudala wall and defencive iq of Miami more than nets.

Kyrie and Harris are going to go bezerk on the Bucks :lol:


Holiday on Kyrie Middleton on Harden Giannis on Durant Donte on Harris Lopez on Jordan I like those matchups for the bucks. Plus this bucks team shoots way better than last years team. Leads the league in 3 point shooting that’s not going to change with that nets D.


I really think the Bucks match up very well with the Nets. The question will become whether they can outscore the Nets enough in a 7-game series. Bud's traditional defensive scheme of "contain the paint at all costs" won't fly against the Nets.
User avatar
N Ireland Nets
Lead Assistant
Posts: 4,618
And1: 276
Joined: Feb 09, 2011
         

Re: [WOJ/SHAMS] 4 Way Blockbuster, Harden to BK, Prince and Allen to Cavs, Oladipo, Exum, Picks to Hou, Levert to Ind 

Post#737 » by N Ireland Nets » Thu Jan 14, 2021 2:37 pm

zshawn10 wrote:
God Squad wrote:
HEKTOR wrote:I don't understand why the Rockets didn't take Allen in this deal? Wouldn't he have been a great fit in their front-court next to Wood?

This is what doesn't make sense for me also. Still trying to understand because in my mind Allen is one of the better players in this deal, especially considering his useage.


Because he’s seeking like a 3/60M deal after this season


Yes and he is worth every penny. Dude plays every game and is constantly getting better. Every year Allen comes back and adds to his game. Last season Allen really developed his passing and you can see he's been working on his 3 ball and mid range game. I believe he is going to be a very very high level NBA player not to mention he's a monster defensively.
Image
PistolPeteJR
RealGM
Posts: 10,342
And1: 9,169
Joined: Jun 14, 2017
 

Re: [WOJ/SHAMS] 4 Way Blockbuster, Harden to BK, Prince and Allen to Cavs, Oladipo, Exum, Picks to Hou, Levert to Ind 

Post#738 » by PistolPeteJR » Thu Jan 14, 2021 2:38 pm

Netsultimatefan63 wrote:
PistolPeteJR wrote:
The_Ghost_of_JB wrote:
Do we really need sources for this? LeBron James has been assembling or playing on super teams for the past 11 seasons. He's absolutely the reason why the NBA is in the shape it's in now.


Last I checked, "superteam" is not restricted to a player or players forming them; therefore, they've been around WAY longer than that.


I think the point he's trying to make is that while super teams have been assembled prior to Lebron, Lebron was the first player who was most public about recruiting players to sign and play with him. Either way, I agree that "super teams" in the sense of multiple all-stars on the same team, have been around for a long time.


But it's not true at all lol. For example, T-Mac, Hill and Duncan in Orlando was very close to happening back in the early 00s were it not for Doc being cheap when it came to Duncan wanting to have his family board the team plane.
donnieme
Head Coach
Posts: 6,382
And1: 7,143
Joined: Feb 27, 2012

Re: [WOJ/SHAMS] 4 Way Blockbuster, Harden to BK, Prince and Allen to Cavs, Oladipo, Exum, Picks to Hou, Levert to Ind 

Post#739 » by donnieme » Thu Jan 14, 2021 2:42 pm

kuclas wrote:So all Houston gets is 4 future unprotected first plus 4 draft picks (essentially 3 draft picks since 2021-2022 Rockets won't be better than 2021-2022 Nets). and expiring Victor Oladipo.

This shows you Houston was not able to get a young 'star" player. They got greedy. I'm sure Boston or Philly would have offer any of their role players plus the same draft picks.

All Houston has is wishing the Nets implode after the 2022 season with Harden/KD/Irving walking away. If they don't walk away, the Rockets are looking at no draft swaps till at least 2025 that is any value. And 2 future first late 1st round picks.

The Nets didn't trade for 36/37 year old KG/Paul Pierce here. They got 28 year old Irving/32 year old KD/31 year old Harden. These guys with modern NBA load management can easily play 4 years together at or near their peak. counting on an implosion is wishful thinking.

Dumb front office. Should have known the trade doesn't end till you've flipped all the new pieces for future assets in future trades. So short sighted. Flipping Allen and Levert alone would have set them up for a decade
User avatar
jwise44
Forum Mod
Forum Mod
Posts: 16,589
And1: 9,340
Joined: Jan 07, 2010
Location: Denver
         

Re: [WOJ/SHAMS] 4 Way Blockbuster, Harden to BK, Prince and Allen to Cavs, Oladipo, Exum, Picks to Hou, Levert to Ind 

Post#740 » by jwise44 » Thu Jan 14, 2021 2:43 pm

kuclas wrote:So all Houston gets is 4 future unprotected first plus 4 draft picks (essentially 3 draft picks since 2021-2022 Rockets won't be better than 2021-2022 Nets). and expiring Victor Oladipo.

This shows you Houston was not able to get a young 'star" player. They got greedy. I'm sure Boston or Philly would have offer any of their role players plus the same draft picks.

All Houston has is wishing the Nets implode after the 2022 season with Harden/KD/Irving walking away. If they don't walk away, the Rockets are looking at no draft swaps till at least 2025 that is any value. And 2 future first late 1st round picks.

The Nets didn't trade for 36/37 year old KG/Paul Pierce here. They got 28 year old Irving/32 year old KD/31 year old Harden. These guys with modern NBA load management can easily play 4 years together at or near their peak. counting on an implosion is wishful thinking.

I think they could have gotten a young “star”. I think we could have gotten Ben Simmons

Our owner just wanted to save money by getting expiring and picks. Tillman is the worst.

Return to The General Board