Official: Shams/Woj/Shelbourne: It's Brooklyn for the Beard

[ecuhus1981]

D@mn, it feels good to be a gangsta.

As a Brooklyn fan, I'm of course over the moon to have Durant, Harden and Irving on my team. The fit will figure itself out, and ring chasers will add quality depth. I'm also vindicated to know that the deals I've been suggesting for months have been on par in terms of valuation. I wish the ex-Nets well, the rest of the league will see that they are better players than many on the T&T board realize.

[cl2117]

Upon further reflection:

Nets: B

This is their modus operandi. Leverage the next decade for a guarantee of at least 2 years of serious contention. It's certainly not the way I'd want to operate, but compared to the Billy King Fiasco, I think this at least has real championship upside. Kyrie seems to be already forcing their hand and his antics making them question their KD/Kyrie duo. Adding Harden just massively increases the urgency to produce, but gives them the firepower to do it in a conference that is now theirs for the taking. They can all be free agents in two years' time, which has to scare the hell out of them given that each has recently bailed on their respective teams, but they could also realistically have a 5+ year run at the top of the East, especially if they get good ring chasers. It's an A if it works and an F if it blows up... Split the difference and call it a B.

Rockets: B

I've started to come around regarding the value of those back-end BKN picks. The Nets have set themselves up for the now with little regard to the back end of the deal, which bodes well for Houston. If it's Billy King 2.0, this could be a big win for them. That being said they've got no cornerstone piece out of the deal. I'd be fine with the Dipo/Levert swap if not for the fact that Vic is already making noise about leaving. If they get good value for him before the deadline my opinion of the deal goes significantly up for them, but if they overpay to keep him or god forbid just let him walk, it could be ugly. Outside of Harden, Allen was my favorite guy changing teams and they swung him to CLE for a low upside pick and eating a deal that's bad, but still feels like a wasted opportunity to me. I'd take the Simmons package before I'd roll with this, but with Harden forcing their hand they at least did get a return with potential boom upside. Still far better than Toronto/Miami packages I saw floated. As a Celtics fan, I've seen this set-up before and I'm certainly not complaining with my 20/20 hindsight, so hopefully they have a similar outcome.

Cleveland: B+

Allen was the 2nd best player in this deal and they got him for a song. Prince's deal was worse than I realized, but Allen has been tremendous this year and easily has the best afro in the league. It's not the homerun that I thought it was originally, but I love them coming in here and getting a really strong talent for a pick that was unlikely to yield a similar player and eating money that they can afford to. If they can make another positive move to clear frontcourt minutes, they'll have done really well.

Indiana: B+

I prefer Oladipo to Levert, but not by much. I vastly prefer maintaining assets to losing them for nothing and that's what this deal was about. It might not be an upgrade, may even be a downgrade, but it gives them a guy that can keep contributing and potentially be moved down the line in exchange for one who seemed halfway out the door already. If they could have extended Oladipo at Levert's salary for the next 3 years, I'd call that a win and this feels like a very similar proposition. Not bad at all.

I don't think I've ever seen such a blockbuster deal with such boom/bust potential where I've graded all the teams as coming out of it pretty even and fairly positive for all. I love the NBA.

[Mike lorenzo]

My two cents:

Houston made out the best in this deal - four picks and four swaps.... I’ll get to the swaps later
Indiana did well - LeVert better than Oladipo right now
Cleveland - okay, but they took Prince’s contract AND gave up a first rounder?

Brooklyn - who’s going to play center? Jordan is washed. Word is Green is going to be small ball center? And Harden and Kyrie on same team? Kylie’s a nut job. Brooklyn has a better chance of winning if they trade Kyrie. So those Houston swaps should be great for the Rockets in about two years.

I don't think "who's going to play center" is a very important question for contending teams in this day and age. Maybe they need one more ring-chaser to eat minutes in the regular season - but it's pretty easy to fill out your center rotation with guys who would have been starters five years ago. When it comes to crunch time in the playoffs, you slide Durant up and have maybe the best two way center in the league. The other half of key games, you live with Jordan or some rando wing who doesn't mind getting elbowed in the throat by Aaron Baynes and Tristan Thompson. Those guys aren't knocking you out of the playoffs, no matter who you put on them...

Great post - I hear you. I just wonder about everything Nets - trading the wrong center, adding Harden to Kyrie, less depth now. A lot can go wrong. We’ll see.

The other thought - in the East, as we saw last playoffs, is about matchups. Embiid gobbles up the Nets right now, as is. Other teams, not so much. Nets-Bucks is an awesome series.

And another..... Dewayne Dedmon is sitting around, enjoying the fact that the Pistons are paying him not to play for them. I smell a Dedmon signing shortly.....

Yes, I thought of him too. Hollis Jefferson could replace Prince ... is this Mahimi wash ..?

[Mike lorenzo]

thoughts ... would switch to Kyrie now ... How about Thunder ...?
Irving for Horford + Hill + Dort
maybe ...
Jordan / Kyrie for Horford / Hill / Ariza ...
Irving to Orlando .. ??

[R-DAWG]

Upon further reflection:

Nets: B

This is their modus operandi. Leverage the next decade for a guarantee of at least 2 years of serious contention. It's certainly not the way I'd want to operate, but compared to the Billy King Fiasco, I think this at least has real championship upside. Kyrie seems to be already forcing their hand and his antics making them question their KD/Kyrie duo. Adding Harden just massively increases the urgency to produce, but gives them the firepower to do it in a conference that is now theirs for the taking. They can all be free agents in two years' time, which has to scare the hell out of them given that each has recently bailed on their respective teams, but they could also realistically have a 5+ year run at the top of the East, especially if they get good ring chasers. It's an A if it works and an F if it blows up... Split the difference and call it a B.

Rockets: B

I've started to come around regarding the value of those back-end BKN picks. The Nets have set themselves up for the now with little regard to the back end of the deal, which bodes well for Houston. If it's Billy King 2.0, this could be a big win for them. That being said they've got no cornerstone piece out of the deal. I'd be fine with the Dipo/Levert swap if not for the fact that Vic is already making noise about leaving. If they get good value for him before the deadline my opinion of the deal goes significantly up for them, but if they overpay to keep him or god forbid just let him walk, it could be ugly. Outside of Harden, Allen was my favorite guy changing teams and they swung him to CLE for a low upside pick and eating a deal that's bad, but still feels like a wasted opportunity to me. I'd take the Simmons package before I'd roll with this, but with Harden forcing their hand they at least did get a return with potential boom upside. Still far better than Toronto/Miami packages I saw floated. As a Celtics fan, I've seen this set-up before and I'm certainly not complaining with my 20/20 hindsight, so hopefully they have a similar outcome.

Cleveland: B+

Allen was the 2nd best player in this deal and they got him for a song. Prince's deal was worse than I realized, but Allen has been tremendous this year and easily has the best afro in the league. It's not the homerun that I thought it was originally, but I love them coming in here and getting a really strong talent for a pick that was unlikely to yield a similar player and eating money that they can afford to. If they can make another positive move to clear frontcourt minutes, they'll have done really well.

Indiana: B+

I prefer Oladipo to Levert, but not by much. I vastly prefer maintaining assets to losing them for nothing and that's what this deal was about. It might not be an upgrade, may even be a downgrade, but it gives them a guy that can keep contributing and potentially be moved down the line in exchange for one who seemed halfway out the door already. If they could have extended Oladipo at Levert's salary for the next 3 years, I'd call that a win and this feels like a very similar proposition. Not bad at all.

I don't think I've ever seen such a blockbuster deal with such boom/bust potential where I've graded all the teams as coming out of it pretty even and fairly positive for all. I love the NBA.

The last time the Nets leveraged their decade for a short term run, they ended up with Kevin Duranrt, James Harden and Kyrie Irving 6 years after the other roster imploded. Kind of hard to argue with putting all the chips in the middle of the table again.

Also, this time it's different. Kevin Durant looks like he's back to being a top 3 player, and at age 32 and with only 1 more year until he can opt out of his contract, you don't know how long the window of having a top 3 player on your roster is. These opportunities don't come around that often, so you have to take advantage of them when they come along.


The Indiana component of this deal looks to be more financial - LeVert is signed for 2 more seasons averaging around $18MM per year. Oladipo is looking for a 4 year contract worth close to the max. Both guys have injury concerns - Oladipo looks more like the guy he was prior to joining Indiana and hasn't quite hit that all-NBA level yet and LeVert is one of those guys who always misses 20-30 games a season.


From Houston's perspective, they might have overplayed their hand asking for too much additional compensation in a Simmons trade. While Simmons has some flaws, he's still a 24 year old 2-time all-star that you can build around for the next decade. Looking at the picks they got - 2 of the 4 are likely in the 25-30 range in 2022 - there is a risk that (a) they end up in the lotto and (b) the player picked becomes a star. Sure, in theory they have multiple shots, but is it hard to see both Durant and Harden resigning in BK and them being a playoff teams through 2025? Personally, I would trade all the picks and pick swaps they got for Simmons - but Philly would never do the same.

[cl2117]

The last time the Nets leveraged their decade for a short term run, they ended up with Kevin Duranrt, James Harden and Kyrie Irving 6 years after the other roster imploded. Kind of hard to argue with putting all the chips in the middle of the table again.

Also, this time it's different. Kevin Durant looks like he's back to being a top 3 player, and at age 32 and with only 1 more year until he can opt out of his contract, you don't know how long the window of having a top 3 player on your roster is. These opportunities don't come around that often, so you have to take advantage of them when they come along.


The Indiana component of this deal looks to be more financial - LeVert is signed for 2 more seasons averaging around $18MM per year. Oladipo is looking for a 4 year contract worth close to the max. Both guys have injury concerns - Oladipo looks more like the guy he was prior to joining Indiana and hasn't quite hit that all-NBA level yet and LeVert is one of those guys who always misses 20-30 games a season.


From Houston's perspective, they might have overplayed their hand asking for too much additional compensation in a Simmons trade. While Simmons has some flaws, he's still a 24 year old 2-time all-star that you can build around for the next decade. Looking at the picks they got - 2 of the 4 are likely in the 25-30 range in 2022 - there is a risk that (a) they end up in the lotto and (b) the player picked becomes a star. Sure, in theory they have multiple shots, but is it hard to see both Durant and Harden resigning in BK and them being a playoff teams through 2025? Personally, I would trade all the picks and pick swaps they got for Simmons - but Philly would never do the same.

Oh yeah I don't blame the Nets for pushing in their chips here, but those 6 years were truly brutal for them, I don't think it should be forgotten just how bad their purgatory was. I'm way more on board with this trio than what they tried to do with KG/Pierce/Deron. This is clearly a far far superior team.

But this strategy only really works if you're in LA or New York or Miami. The Nets landed this trio basically because 2/3 decided to team up and wanted to do it in NYC, it wasn't like they manoeuvred into a stud lineup. This could have easily been the Knicks instead of the Nets. That being said BKN is probably in a good spot to manage to land superstars again regardless of how this works out for them because tons of guys will want to be in NYC. And they had the balls to push it all in for Harden, which not everyone would, so hats off to them for that.

There was a "would you rather" on the GB the other day about being guaranteed a championship, but be in the lottery for 9/10 years or in the conference finals 10 years straight, but no guarantee of winning anything and I'm all about door #2. Although the Nets could end up with best of both worlds here, but just saying my personal preference is always to be competitive (other Celtics fans are having a meltdown because they're the opposite, but to each their own).

Yeah I'd take Simmons as well. I could see both Harden/Durant re-signing, but just as easily could see them walking or Durant going down again and being an albatross for a season or two. I'd take the bird in the hand, being Simmons, but the more I think about it the more I realize Philly never had a chance. No way the Rockets were gonna let Morey take his 2 week "break" from basketball and then pick up Harden to pair with Embiid and a likely Finals appearance. I think they were always the fluffer here.

[K_chile22]

As I think about it, I don't think Dipo is long for the Rockets. I think the thinking was that the Rockets just didn't want Levert on his deal and were concerned he wouldn't look any better with more focus on him in Houston, so instead flipped him for the best player they could without long term money with hopes to flip him at the deadline for assets. Either to a team that can keep him long term or a team that wants him for a playoff run. Think he'd be great in Denver for example

[MasterIchiro]

If I'm the Nets I turn around and take the Philly deal. Simmons - Kyrie - Durant is younger and more sustainable. Harris and Shamet complement Simmons with their shooting.

[Wizop]

Not playing back to backs for the first month of the season to me is not a reason to trade the guy.

that wasn't what I intended to say. I only meant that Vic not playing back to backs lessened the injury concern with LeVert. I didn't mean Vic had to go because he was missing games. I only meant that LeVert could miss fewer games even with some injuries.

[Trader_Joe]

Ughhh...

Well, I threatened to turn in my fan card if this happened, and while I want to stick to my word, I just can't ditch my team. This team has 2 of my least favorite players in the league and other than Harris, I don't really feel attachment to anyone on this team. But, I think the deal was more than fair and increases the Nets title chances for the foreseeable future. Value-wise, this was pretty much spot on to previous iteration, other than Dinwiddie absent from the deal, so I'm wondering if he's back next year. It will be interesting to see how the Nets fill the roster spots going forward. They have 3 roster spots, the Disabled PE for Dinwiddie and the tax MLE, both about $5.7m each. From the trade, Kurucs wasn't playing, Prince played the SF/PF (poorly) and Caris was having an up and down start as PG/SF/6th man. The biggest loss by far is Allen, so they need to fill that hole. I've seen Dedmon mentioned, and I'm not sure who else is out there. I've heard Isaiah Thomas mentioned, and KD and Kyrie did play with him over the summer saying how good he looked, but even with DIniwwide injured, LeVert gone and Kyrie gone nuts, I don't think a diminutive, defense-less SG in a less than PG's body is needed. I wouldn't be surprised if Jamal Crawford is signed, just because they seem attached to him for some reason. I really want bigs and wings that defend. I wonder if the Nets even wait for the buyout market and see what players become available then.

Current depth:
Irving / T.Johnson / C.Chiozza* / (Dinwiddie)
Harden / B.Brown / Shamet
J.Harris / TLC
Durant / Green
Jordan / R.Perry* / Claxton
*2-ways

[patman66]

Ughhh...

Well, I threatened to turn in my fan card if this happened, and while I want to stick to my word, I just can't ditch my team. This team has 2 of my least favorite players in the league and other than Harris, I don't really feel attachment to anyone on this team. But, I think the deal was more than fair and increases the Nets title chances for the foreseeable future. Value-wise, this was pretty much spot on to previous iteration, other than Dinwiddie absent from the deal, so I'm wondering if he's back next year. It will be interesting to see how the Nets fill the roster spots going forward. They have 3 roster spots, the Disabled PE for Dinwiddie and the tax MLE, both about $5.7m each. From the trade, Kurucs wasn't playing, Prince played the SF/PF (poorly) and Caris was having an up and down start as PG/SF/6th man. The biggest loss by far is Allen, so they need to fill that hole. I've seen Dedmon mentioned, and I'm not sure who else is out there. I've heard Isaiah Thomas mentioned, and KD and Kyrie did play with him over the summer saying how good he looked, but even with DIniwwide injured, LeVert gone and Kyrie gone nuts, I don't think a diminutive, defense-less SG in a less than PG's body is needed. I wouldn't be surprised if Jamal Crawford is signed, just because they seem attached to him for some reason. I really want bigs and wings that defend. I wonder if the Nets even wait for the buyout market and see what players become available then.

Current depth:
Irving / T.Johnson / C.Chiozza* / (Dinwiddie)
Harden / B.Brown / Shamet
J.Harris / TLC
Durant / Green
Jordan / R.Perry* / Claxton
*2-ways

I can't see why Dinwiddie would want to share time with those 2 unless he has a setback in his rehab.

[Trader_Joe]

Ughhh...

Well, I threatened to turn in my fan card if this happened, and while I want to stick to my word, I just can't ditch my team. This team has 2 of my least favorite players in the league and other than Harris, I don't really feel attachment to anyone on this team. But, I think the deal was more than fair and increases the Nets title chances for the foreseeable future. Value-wise, this was pretty much spot on to previous iteration, other than Dinwiddie absent from the deal, so I'm wondering if he's back next year. It will be interesting to see how the Nets fill the roster spots going forward. They have 3 roster spots, the Disabled PE for Dinwiddie and the tax MLE, both about $5.7m each. From the trade, Kurucs wasn't playing, Prince played the SF/PF (poorly) and Caris was having an up and down start as PG/SF/6th man. The biggest loss by far is Allen, so they need to fill that hole. I've seen Dedmon mentioned, and I'm not sure who else is out there. I've heard Isaiah Thomas mentioned, and KD and Kyrie did play with him over the summer saying how good he looked, but even with DIniwwide injured, LeVert gone and Kyrie gone nuts, I don't think a diminutive, defense-less SG in a less than PG's body is needed. I wouldn't be surprised if Jamal Crawford is signed, just because they seem attached to him for some reason. I really want bigs and wings that defend. I wonder if the Nets even wait for the buyout market and see what players become available then.

Current depth:
Irving / T.Johnson / C.Chiozza* / (Dinwiddie)
Harden / B.Brown / Shamet
J.Harris / TLC
Durant / Green
Jordan / R.Perry* / Claxton
*2-ways

I can't see why Dinwiddie would want to share time with those 2 unless he has a setback in his rehab.

To win a title and be part of something that he helped create.
Plus, it's not like Kyrie would be blocking his playing time right now. He'd have plenty of chances to play PG-SF.

[jayjaysee]

I hate it for both teams, but what about KP/Kyrie swap?

Dallas has some depth pieces to mix in..

[Texas Chuck]

I hate it for both teams, but what about KP/Kyrie swap?

Dallas has some depth pieces to mix in..

If we knew Kyrie was going to play and wouldn't be put out to be traded and to be on what would clearly be seen as Luka's team. So in other words Kyrie's game but a totally different person then yeah Dallas pretty much has to do this and could send back Brunson and WCS as KP injury insurance to re-stock the Nets depth.

As is, I'm not wanting any part of this.

To me the best idea I've seen is a Kyrie/Jrue swap. Kyrie closes games for Giannis. Jrue does all the Jrue things and is perfectly content being 3rd in the offensive pecking order.

[HartfordWhalers]

Little late but wanted to say I love this for Cleveland.

[daoneandonly]

I hate it for both teams, but what about KP/Kyrie swap?

Dallas has some depth pieces to mix in..

If we knew Kyrie was going to play and wouldn't be put out to be traded and to be on what would clearly be seen as Luka's team. So in other words Kyrie's game but a totally different person then yeah Dallas pretty much has to do this and could send back Brunson and WCS as KP injury insurance to re-stock the Nets depth.

As is, I'm not wanting any part of this.

To me the best idea I've seen is a Kyrie/Jrue swap. Kyrie closes games for Giannis. Jrue does all the Jrue things and is perfectly content being 3rd in the offensive pecking order.

That Kyrie-Jrue swap is not half bad. Makes sense for the reasons you outlined.

And as a Mavs fan, Kyrie the player is one thing, but no way would I trade any type of value close to KP for Kyrie the person.

[pacers33granger]

For Indy, this feels like a loss but it seems it had to be done. I think Caris will fit in fine and give us another weapon but this hurts our ceiling (even if the chances of reaching it were low).

Given the situation though, value was probably the best we were going to get. And we now have our core locked in fully, saved a few mil this year, got under the tax, and should now be able to resign McDermott who has proven to be a valuable bench piece.

Still sucks how it all went down with Vic, though at least he knew to just go about his business and not feed the rumors unlike some other guys.

Sent from my SM-A716U using RealGM mobile app

[nolang1]

Upon further reflection:

Nets: B

This is their modus operandi. Leverage the next decade for a guarantee of at least 2 years of serious contention. It's certainly not the way I'd want to operate, but compared to the Billy King Fiasco, I think this at least has real championship upside. Kyrie seems to be already forcing their hand and his antics making them question their KD/Kyrie duo. Adding Harden just massively increases the urgency to produce, but gives them the firepower to do it in a conference that is now theirs for the taking. They can all be free agents in two years' time, which has to scare the hell out of them given that each has recently bailed on their respective teams, but they could also realistically have a 5+ year run at the top of the East, especially if they get good ring chasers. It's an A if it works and an F if it blows up... Split the difference and call it a B.

Rockets: B

I've started to come around regarding the value of those back-end BKN picks. The Nets have set themselves up for the now with little regard to the back end of the deal, which bodes well for Houston. If it's Billy King 2.0, this could be a big win for them. That being said they've got no cornerstone piece out of the deal. I'd be fine with the Dipo/Levert swap if not for the fact that Vic is already making noise about leaving. If they get good value for him before the deadline my opinion of the deal goes significantly up for them, but if they overpay to keep him or god forbid just let him walk, it could be ugly. Outside of Harden, Allen was my favorite guy changing teams and they swung him to CLE for a low upside pick and eating a deal that's bad, but still feels like a wasted opportunity to me. I'd take the Simmons package before I'd roll with this, but with Harden forcing their hand they at least did get a return with potential boom upside. Still far better than Toronto/Miami packages I saw floated. As a Celtics fan, I've seen this set-up before and I'm certainly not complaining with my 20/20 hindsight, so hopefully they have a similar outcome.

Cleveland: B+

Allen was the 2nd best player in this deal and they got him for a song. Prince's deal was worse than I realized, but Allen has been tremendous this year and easily has the best afro in the league. It's not the homerun that I thought it was originally, but I love them coming in here and getting a really strong talent for a pick that was unlikely to yield a similar player and eating money that they can afford to. If they can make another positive move to clear frontcourt minutes, they'll have done really well.

Indiana: B+

I prefer Oladipo to Levert, but not by much. I vastly prefer maintaining assets to losing them for nothing and that's what this deal was about. It might not be an upgrade, may even be a downgrade, but it gives them a guy that can keep contributing and potentially be moved down the line in exchange for one who seemed halfway out the door already. If they could have extended Oladipo at Levert's salary for the next 3 years, I'd call that a win and this feels like a very similar proposition. Not bad at all.

I don't think I've ever seen such a blockbuster deal with such boom/bust potential where I've graded all the teams as coming out of it pretty even and fairly positive for all. I love the NBA.

The last time the Nets leveraged their decade for a short term run, they ended up with Kevin Duranrt, James Harden and Kyrie Irving 6 years after the other roster imploded. Kind of hard to argue with putting all the chips in the middle of the table again.

Also, this time it's different. Kevin Durant looks like he's back to being a top 3 player, and at age 32 and with only 1 more year until he can opt out of his contract, you don't know how long the window of having a top 3 player on your roster is. These opportunities don't come around that often, so you have to take advantage of them when they come along.


The Indiana component of this deal looks to be more financial - LeVert is signed for 2 more seasons averaging around $18MM per year. Oladipo is looking for a 4 year contract worth close to the max. Both guys have injury concerns - Oladipo looks more like the guy he was prior to joining Indiana and hasn't quite hit that all-NBA level yet and LeVert is one of those guys who always misses 20-30 games a season.


From Houston's perspective, they might have overplayed their hand asking for too much additional compensation in a Simmons trade. While Simmons has some flaws, he's still a 24 year old 2-time all-star that you can build around for the next decade. Looking at the picks they got - 2 of the 4 are likely in the 25-30 range in 2022 - there is a risk that (a) they end up in the lotto and (b) the player picked becomes a star. Sure, in theory they have multiple shots, but is it hard to see both Durant and Harden resigning in BK and them being a playoff teams through 2025? Personally, I would trade all the picks and pick swaps they got for Simmons - but Philly would never do the same.

2-time Eastern Conference all-star. He would be sitting at 0 all-star appearances now and for the foreseeable future if he'd been in the West, where guys like Dame or CP3 were getting snubbed or having to get in as injury replacements.

[HartfordWhalers]

Simmons was all nba last year, 3rd team.

I think anyone treating him not as a legit all star just has an obvious agenda.

[MoneyTalks41890]

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