Trade Ideas (Part III)

[jbk1234]

What about trading Drummond for Westbrook?

Westbrook and Love could be a good tandem.

Lol, no. The Cavs are set at guard and there's no way we're eating all that salary for free.

Heh, the assumption has been the opposite that we'd be dealing Kevin to join Russ somewhere, I'm just not sure what would work out salary-wise with the Wizards unless they do entertain trading Beal and then perhaps Love could come back to them in a 3-way.

I would so not take back Wiggins for Love, and as that would be the likely framework, I don't have much interest. Kevin needs to get healthy, get on the court, and be provided an opportunity to be a significant part of the offense. The 2021 FA class could be a real stinker and so long as he has a good season, Love will have trade value this summer to a team that can't afford to wait.

[Stillwater]

I cant see KLove getting moved for what he is worth to CLE at all. I think he either stays full deal or is " done a favor" and sent to somewhere he wants for an expiring and a meh pick or two

[JMAC3]

Wonder what you will be able to get for Kevin Porter after this news broke...

[mg]

Welp @jbk sadly it does look like KPJ is on the chopping block/trade block per Vardon's tweet today. Sad to say but Fedor is just a mouthpiece for the team and has zero inside info. With that said I hope the young man gets his life together. He has so much natural talent but just has maturity issues at this point.

I still believe in him but he might have to land with an org who has veteran leaders and who can be patient with the kid. We have too many 20 year olds on this team and are still trying to set a culture so not a good fit at this point (sadly).

[jbk1234]

Wonder what you will be able to get for Kevin Porter after this news broke...

To put it charitably, Vardon is a bit of a sensationalist so I'm not entirely sure I believe they've reached that point. Hopefully, this is just double secret probation.

[JonFromVA]

Wonder what you will be able to get for Kevin Porter after this news broke...

To put it charitably, Vardon is a bit of a sensationalist so I'm not entirely sure I believe they've reached that point. Hopefully, this is just double secret probation.

Jason Lloyd is reporting KPJ went off in the locker room when he found out his locker had been moved and they're trying to trade him. So double secret probation has been spent ... it appears.

[jbk1234]

Wonder what you will be able to get for Kevin Porter after this news broke...

To put it charitably, Vardon is a bit of a sensationalist so I'm not entirely sure I believe they've reached that point. Hopefully, this is just double secret probation.

Jason Lloyd is reporting KPJ went off in the locker room when he found out his locker had been moved and they're trying to trade him. So double secret probation has been spent ... it appears.

I updated the reporting in the other thread.

[Stillwater]

There are a few scenarios where I can see somebody taking a chance on him esp teams on the West coast closer to his home network which he really seems to need imo. Portland as part of a Javale trade for either Collins or just KPJ straight up for Nassir Little would seem possible.
Some other possibilities might be to LAL with a 2nd rounder for THT where he would have a lot of help from Lebrons camp to get him inline.
more likely scenarios :
GSW could send the expiring of Chriss who is out for the season and the GSW 22 2nd.
Miami sends KZ Okpala straight up or maybe Cavs have to throw in a future 2nd.
Boston for their 21 2nd and the draft right to Yam Mader.
To BKN for Reggie Perry
To Denver for PJ Dozier
To PHO for Tyshon Alexander and Naders expiring
To IND for Cassius Stanley
To NOP for the Cavs own 21 2nd rights returned
and there is obviously also the possibility he is waived at which point I will turn my back on the Cavs as that would be the worse thing that could happen given how patient they have been with him and how much potential he has.

[JonFromVA]

We'll be lucky not to have to give up assets to trade Kevin at this point. The arrest, the gun charge, the weed, the outburst a the hotel, whatever has happened that hasn't been leaked, and what has including his problems at USC that caused him to drop in the first place.

If his talent was otherworldly, that would be one thing ... but he had like 3 games worth talking about last season and wracked up a ton of negative minutes which is typical of a a player with a high-volume playstyle that lacks talent/experience.

[Stillwater]

We'll be lucky not to have to give up assets to trade Kevin at this point. The arrest, the gun charge, the weed, the outburst a the hotel, whatever has happened that hasn't been leaked, and what has including his problems at USC that caused him to drop in the first place.

If his talent was otherworldly, that would be one thing ... but he had like 3 games worth talking about last season and wracked up a ton of negative minutes which is typical of a a player with a high-volume playstyle that lacks talent/experience.

You are throwing him under the bus wow why am not surprised you have the outlook that its all his fault smh
imo the org failed him as much as he failed himself.
They might not get much for him, but thats a given thanks to the way this has been handled.
There is no way he isnt worth at least those players or picks I have listed the post before yours even knowing the off court issues most of which were thrown out and or dismissed as bs .
Its just another case of he said she said on the punching a woman story which I am inclined to think is somebody trying to get hush $.
I hope you can understand that blaming KPJ which is what you are doing is probably not a good practice without knowing the facts.

[JonFromVA]

We'll be lucky not to have to give up assets to trade Kevin at this point. The arrest, the gun charge, the weed, the outburst a the hotel, whatever has happened that hasn't been leaked, and what has including his problems at USC that caused him to drop in the first place.

If his talent was otherworldly, that would be one thing ... but he had like 3 games worth talking about last season and wracked up a ton of negative minutes which is typical of a a player with a high-volume playstyle that lacks talent/experience.

You are throwing him under the bus wow why am not surprised you have the outlook that its all his fault smh
imo the org failed him as much as he failed himself.
They might not get much for him, but thats a given thanks to the way this has been handled.
There is no way he isnt worth at least those players or picks I have listed the post before yours even knowing the off court issues most of which were thrown out and or dismissed as bs .
Its just another case of he said she said on the punching a woman story which I am inclined to think is somebody trying to get hush $.
I hope you can understand that blaming KPJ which is what you are doing is probably not a good practice without knowing the facts.

I know way too many facts.

Dude was blessed to make it to the NBA and be offered a job that could have left his family rich for generations.

The things he's done are not acceptable. He's thrown himself under the bus, and while it doesn't matter what you or I think, the sooner he realizes, the sooner maybe he can get some help and straighten out his life.

Unfortunately, some people have to hit rock bottom to figure things out, and others never do.

[Harper4Ferry?]

Porter/Prince/Drummond to Charlotte for Rozier/Zeller/Monk maybe? Prince and Rozier kinda offset each other next season. They could probably use Dre. We open up a spot for Allen. Zeller/Monk both expiring, Porter kind of in whatever ever land now.

[Stillwater]

Porter/Prince/Drummond to Charlotte for Rozier/Zeller/Monk maybe? Prince and Rozier kinda offset each other next season. They could probably use Dre. We open up a spot for Allen. Zeller/Monk both expiring, Porter kind of in whatever ever land now.

I dont see them waiting to make any deal. They have to be able to include him in a deal with players that can be traded this week imo and unless I missed something they cant trade Prince right away.
I am looking at the Portland deal as the best case with Mcgee tbh they need a iso scorer with CJ hurt and they need a better rim protector than Kanter + Nurk is injured AND Carmelo has been mentoring KPJ this offseason apparently etc.
Just seems like the inevitable given he would also be very close to home after the deal too.
I would def consider it if they will part with Collins and a 2nd. but would just take Little for KPJ if they dont want Javale

[Stillwater]

If they move him alone I could see NY having interest in taking a flier in exchange either the Cha or the Detroit 21 2nd they own to prevent him from joining a different roster after being wavied. I think the Cavs should jump on any early 21 2nd pick offers imo if no decent player returns are offered.
I also do think the Nets are a reasonable landing spot where he would be less likely to be disgruntled behind 3 superstars etc. and relish the idea of backing them up. They could offer CLE the rights to the ATL 21 2nd but they also have some players the Cavs would want in either Reggie Perry a nice rookie PF or maybe the Cavs can add yet another center in Claxton given Dre and Javale are gone next summer anyway.

[Stillwater]

I for one don't see the Cavs doing this this soon, but it might be something to consider if OKC is willing to part with Poku.
Cavs send DG and their 22 first top 4 protected to OKC in exchange for Ty Jerome,Poku and the Suns 22 1st 13-30.
If Cavs pick does not convey OKC gets the Cavs 23 1st unprotected, if the Suns retain their pick in 22 and OKC doesn't have it to give, CLE gets LAC 22 1st top 14 protected and OKC's own 22 2nd. And if somehow the LAC does not convey being in the 1-13 range then CLE gets OKC's own 23 1st which includes LAC swap rights currently owned by OKC.
This gives OKC a dynamic ball handler with a lot of upside that already has decent sized 2 way guards to pair him with in SGA and Dort ...it gives CLE a bigger PG who can play off ball as well as needed but is a sufficient playmaker and shooter and probably can be a good defender in this system but the prize here is they get a true 7' sf/pf to develop as a stretch 3-4 with handles and passing ability to become a star in the league long term.
https://basketball.realgm.com/tradechecker/saved_trade/7389671
having a guard rotation of Sexton ,Okoro,Windler,Jerome,Dotson and I guess Delly is a solid 2-way guard rotation then adding a versatile shooter in Poku next to Allen to develop behind Love or just play at the 3 early on gives balance to any line up and another floor stretching threat / playmaker who can put the ball on the floor some etc and has length /mobility to defend 2-4 and maybe some 5 as he gets stronger.
* Poku has not been very good to start his career which is why there is a chance this trade could be realistic.
& Jerome is buried in the rotation for the sake of development of SGA etc and has been hurt a bit as well and most certainly is available imo.
Maybe DG is worth more than this and again I dont see it happening , but I would do it.

[JonFromVA]

Cavs need a backup PG to replace Exum and help Collin out when we face teams like the Knicks who can make things hard on him with their length/defense.

[jbk1234]

The Cavs aren't trading Garland any time soon, and if they get there eventually, it won't be for anything like these returns.

Sexton is, at best, the second option on any team with legitimate championship aspirations. He would need to play alongside of a Durant/LBJ/Doncic who could run an offense out of that position if you're going to abandon the more traditional PG concept.

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[Stillwater]

The Cavs aren't trading Garland any time soon, and if they get there eventually, it won't be for anything like these returns.

Sexton is, at best, the second option on any team with legitimate championship aspirations. He would need to play alongside of a Durant/LBJ/Doncic who could run an offense out of that position if you're going to abandon the more traditional PG concept.

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so you dont think he is worth as much as Poku who needs to get a lot stronger too and is 2 years behind KLove away from being a major factor and a role player guard in Jerome with good skills and size and the Cavs getting the lesser of the pick exchanges ...or do you think DG worth more currently based on skill timeline etc?
I guess if they value him as worth more than that return (which is at least fair in value and would be completely reasonable for DG's performance on the court as is and right now), then sure they would be crazy to move DG at all which is why I said I dont actually think they would do something like this for the time being.
I think they will need to take the risk that DG is what he is if they want to gamble on somebody else thinking he can blossom into a lead guard in the NBA for another roster etc and it should happen sooner than later at which point the value return based on the potential of a guy like Poku will exit as an option with OKC opting for the likely higher upside Poku a year from now if DG hasn't improved enough for CLE to want to keep him etc. And then he is worth less than Poku Jerome etc...
All I am saying is if they are going to move DG imo they need to consider doing it before the DL even though that might be more risk than they are willing to take if they actually believe he will become far more productive than he is. I am starting to feel like he wont so I am looking for ideas to get some kind of return for him thats all, and I feel like they will keep him and eventually get burned for holding on too long in fear of him becoming the guy they thought they were drafting but has still yet to be that guy at least not consistently.
Anyone can see Sexton and every other smallish guard is highly unlikely to ever be the first option on a contender, but the fact he might be able to be a 2nd option is a massive difference from where people thought he would be when they drafted him. Except for me of course who has always been in his corner. TBH anyone who claims I am irrational in that at this point is eating crow or in denial still. LOL

[jbk1234]

The Cavs aren't trading Garland any time soon, and if they get there eventually, it won't be for anything like these returns.

Sexton is, at best, the second option on any team with legitimate championship aspirations. He would need to play alongside of a Durant/LBJ/Doncic who could run an offense out of that position if you're going to abandon the more traditional PG concept.

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so you dont think he is worth as much as Poku who needs to get a lot stronger too and is 2 years behind KLove away from being a major factor and a role player guard in Jerome with good skills and size and the Cavs getting the lesser of the pick exchanges ...or do you think DG worth more currently based on skill timeline etc?
I guess if they value him as worth more than that return (which is at least fair in value and would be completely reasonable for DG's performance on the court as is and right now), then sure they would be crazy to move DG at all which is why I said I dont actually think they would do something like this for the time being.
I think they will need to take the risk that DG is what he is if they want to gamble on somebody else thinking he can blossom into a lead guard in the NBA for another roster etc and it should happen sooner than later at which point the value return based on the potential of a guy like Poku will exit as an option with OKC opting for the likely higher upside Poku a year from now if DG hasn't improved enough for CLE to want to keep him etc. And then he is worth less than Poku Jerome etc...
All I am saying is if they are going to move DG imo they need to consider doing it before the DL even though that might be more risk than they are willing to take if they actually believe he will become far more productive than he is. I am starting to feel like he wont so I am looking for ideas to get some kind of return for him thats all, and I feel like they will keep him and eventually get burned for holding on too long in fear of him becoming the guy they thought they were drafting but has still yet to be that guy at least not consistently.
Anyone can see Sexton and every other smallish guard is highly unlikely to ever be the first option on a contender, but the fact he might be able to be a 2nd option is a massive difference from where people thought he would be when they drafted him. Except for me of course who has always been in his corner. TBH anyone who claims I am irrational in that at this point is eating crow or in denial still. LOL

To be clear, I think that's a straight awful trade for the Cavs. Poku fell for a reason and nothing he's done in the NBA has made the teams that passed on him regret it. Even if you want to acquire him, you're overpaying by a lot.

I mean I heard this all last year with Sekuo, Okpala, Okeke, Hayes, etc. Those guys simply haven't done anything in the NBA to warrant more than a second round pick in a trade. You want to to take a flier on a guy, then at least pay the flier price instead of ten times sticker.

If the Cavs decide to move on from Garland, it should be either immediately before this draft, or the next one, in order to move up and select a guy they've identified as a true franchise cornerstone. To my eye, Garland looks considerably better than he did last season and if he continues on the current trajectory he could be a top 5-10 PG by the time his rookie contract is up.

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[Stillwater]

The Cavs aren't trading Garland any time soon, and if they get there eventually, it won't be for anything like these returns.

Sexton is, at best, the second option on any team with legitimate championship aspirations. He would need to play alongside of a Durant/LBJ/Doncic who could run an offense out of that position if you're going to abandon the more traditional PG concept.

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so you dont think he is worth as much as Poku who needs to get a lot stronger too and is 2 years behind KLove away from being a major factor and a role player guard in Jerome with good skills and size and the Cavs getting the lesser of the pick exchanges ...or do you think DG worth more currently based on skill timeline etc?
I guess if they value him as worth more than that return (which is at least fair in value and would be completely reasonable for DG's performance on the court as is and right now), then sure they would be crazy to move DG at all which is why I said I dont actually think they would do something like this for the time being.
I think they will need to take the risk that DG is what he is if they want to gamble on somebody else thinking he can blossom into a lead guard in the NBA for another roster etc and it should happen sooner than later at which point the value return based on the potential of a guy like Poku will exit as an option with OKC opting for the likely higher upside Poku a year from now if DG hasn't improved enough for CLE to want to keep him etc. And then he is worth less than Poku Jerome etc...
All I am saying is if they are going to move DG imo they need to consider doing it before the DL even though that might be more risk than they are willing to take if they actually believe he will become far more productive than he is. I am starting to feel like he wont so I am looking for ideas to get some kind of return for him thats all, and I feel like they will keep him and eventually get burned for holding on too long in fear of him becoming the guy they thought they were drafting but has still yet to be that guy at least not consistently.
Anyone can see Sexton and every other smallish guard is highly unlikely to ever be the first option on a contender, but the fact he might be able to be a 2nd option is a massive difference from where people thought he would be when they drafted him. Except for me of course who has always been in his corner. TBH anyone who claims I am irrational in that at this point is eating crow or in denial still. LOL

To be clear, I think that's a straight awful trade for the Cavs. Poku fell for a reason and nothing he's done in the NBA has made the teams that passed on him regret it. Even if you want to acquire him, you're overpaying by a lot.

I mean I heard this all last year with Sekuo, Okpala, Okeke, Hayes, etc. Those guys simply haven't done anything in the NBA to warrant more than a second round pick in a trade. You want to to take a flier on a guy, then at least pay the flier price instead of ten times sticker.

If the Cavs decide to move on from Garland, it should be either immediately before this draft, or the next one, in order to move up and select a guy they've identified as a true franchise cornerstone. To my eye, Garland looks considerably better than he did last season and if he continues on the current trajectory he could be a top 15 PG by the time his rookie contract is up.

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The key difference between my scouting eye and the normal fan of the NBA like yourself is one thing: potential long term (Sekou,Okpala,Okeke,Hayes etc) vs skill level when drafted(Garland,Hunter,Youngetc). You like most fans over value guys with a lot of skill on display in college as do I at the very top of the draft but after that its a bunch of kids with the body and athleticism to become those level of players and actually succeed at a high level in the NBA should they reach those ceilings that I am interested in as opposed to the ones with a lot of skill but fail to meet the star upside criteria based on body type athleticism etc and although should come into the league dominating based on their skill already being there but dont because their bodies are in catch up mode and probably will never get there.
imo Poku fell because he is a stick figure that should not be a center in the NBA but the majority of scouts look at a 7'er and drool at the idea of a mobile big developing long term but dont have the patience for it, when in fact his skill set is a sf/pf playmaker etc.
knowledge is king right...