Ball Don't Lie: The LaMelo Ball Thread

[yosemiteben]

if you have to ask..

tell a young point guard to stop taking risks/be creative what do you think happens? like i said fortunately hes a very confident kid.

I asked you to share an example or three.

... And I'm still waiting

hell we did it to felton

Your only example is a dude drafted 16 years ago. Kinda illustrates SWedd's point.

[DY_nasty]

I asked you to share an example or three.

... And I'm still waiting

hell we did it to felton

Okay... I want to see you try to defend this garbage lol come on man you're better than this

Please explain to me how Felton was ever in a similar situation to Melo, then was called out by a coach for playing too sloppy and/or turning it over too much, then it stunting his development

He had 5 games of 5+ turnovers his first season (roughly 1 every 16 games). Melo has already had 2 (or roughly 1 every 8 games). Let's just ignore the fact that Felton and Melo are two completely different players with completely different trajectories.

no, the whole conservative approach to point guard development in particular. young pgs are gonna have high turnover games. it is what it is. and benching them for it is like telling a natural shot blocker he's going to the bench every time he leaves his feet early... now if lamelo was the only guy who played bad? sure. if he derailed the offense? even more of a reason.

in that game? nah. doesn't work. there's a bigger problem with the team as a whole looking bad after 5 days off than lamelo in particular playing bad. that's really, really close to scapegoating. and JB doesn't have the sort of resume where he can do that sort of thing. that's not an unreasonable take.

i think a lot of more people are more okay with lamelo missing a lob to zeller or bridges than devonte throwing up garbage for 10 games straight along with "we believe in him"s when asked about it. and again, none of these rookies got a camp or even a summer league either. the young guy has far more of an excuse than the rest of these guys do.

jb needs keep the same energy with every slump or bad game if that's what he's really about. he's never had issues with consistency until this year.

I asked you to share an example or three.

... And I'm still waiting

hell we did it to felton

Your only example is a dude drafted 16 years ago. Kinda illustrates SWedd's point.

that's not my only example is the first relevant one to this team and one nearly all of you guys would remember well

could only imagine the riot in memphis if they benched ja for turning the ball over

[yosemiteben]

I'll cut to the chase because this seems like a silly argument to me. We all like Melo, we all want him to be the best he can be, and I think we're all sold that he has the goods. My personal view at this point is that pretty much the only thing that can **** up his future is poor discipline and entitlement. I have absolutely zero issue with anything JB does to help him develop and ensure that those risks don't materialize.

[DY_nasty]

I'll cut to the chase because this seems like a silly argument to me. We all like Melo, we all want him to be the best he can be, and I think we're all sold that he has the goods. My personal view at this point is that pretty much the only thing that can **** up his future is poor discipline and entitlement. I have absolutely zero issue with anything JB does to help him develop and ensure that those risks don't materialize.

and what has JB earned anywhere to get that kind of treatment?

he's not rick carlisle. he's not even frank vogel. he might be one day but he's gotta develop too.

'coach is always right' makes no sense for a guy who's going through growing pains like everyone else. you guys handwaving JB's missteps is way more ridiculous than anything i'm saying.

and you guys can't even say i'm playing favorites because i've been on both the JB bandwagon and Graham bandwagon from the start hell, i've done a bigger u-turn on lamelo than anyone else.

[SWedd523]

hell we did it to felton

Okay... I want to see you try to defend this garbage lol come on man you're better than this

Please explain to me how Felton was ever in a similar situation to Melo, then was called out by a coach for playing too sloppy and/or turning it over too much, then it stunting his development

He had 5 games of 5+ turnovers his first season (roughly 1 every 16 games). Melo has already had 2 (or roughly 1 every 8 games). Let's just ignore the fact that Felton and Melo are two completely different players with completely different trajectories.

no, the whole conservative approach to point guard development in particular. young pgs are gonna have high turnover games. it is what it is. and benching them for it is like telling a natural shot blocker he's going to the bench every time he leaves his feet early... now if lamelo was the only guy who played bad? sure. if he derailed the offense? even more of a reason.

in that game? nah. doesn't work. there's a bigger problem with the team as a whole looking bad after 5 days off than lamelo in particular playing bad. that's really, really close to scapegoating. and JB doesn't have the sort of resume where he can do that sort of thing. that's not an unreasonable take.

i think a lot of more people are more okay with lamelo missing a lob to zeller or bridges than devonte throwing up garbage for 10 games straight along with "we believe in him"s when asked about it. and again, none of these rookies got a camp or even a summer league either. the young guy has far more of an excuse than the rest of these guys do.

jb needs keep the same energy with every slump or bad game if that's what he's really about. he's never had issues with consistency until this year.

hell we did it to felton

Your only example is a dude drafted 16 years ago. Kinda illustrates SWedd's point.

that's not my only example is the first relevant one to this team and one nearly all of you guys would remember well

could only imagine the riot in memphis if they benched ja for turning the ball over

What are you talking about and/or why are you trying to go down this road?

Dude said harping on a young PG about his turnovers kills his development

I said give examples

Now you're out here talking about conservative approaches and coaching philosophies and ****

You see how that's not even remotely close to the same thing I'm asking for proof of, right?


For the matter

A. When was Felton ever a victim of conservative development? The dude averaged at least 30 minutes per game every single year until he turned 30. He was given ample opportunity to grow.

B. Melo gets big minutes when he plays well, and gets less when he plays like ass. He's a young rookie who has been playing catch-up since he was drafted. I'd hardly consider that scapegoating.

If anything, it's starting to seem like Melo is getting that Jeremy Sacred Calf Lin treatment. You know damn well that if Melo tanks, then so does Borrego's job. He's not going out of his way to screw his best young player

[DY_nasty]

please...we made felton dribble to the same point on the court and spin in a circle then turn around before initiating the offense lmao

again, i like borrego - but don't give miles 30 minutes a night to do nothing of worth for a whole year then make a headline about turnovers/defense regarding the #3 overall pick and expect not to create smoke.

that combined with the bad coaching telltale signs of throwing out full court presses because you don't trust your own defense, gimmick lineups, not sticking to your own statements regarding rotation staggering, playing starters late into unwinnable games for *reasons* when there's a back to back, etc. idk. at the very least, its not a good look.

i'm not as cool as you guys are with every single thing borrego does this year. zero adjustments after a long time off against a bad team is massive red flag. way bigger than a young pg in a high pace offense turning the ball over.

edit: hell, i'm trying to think of a young pg who didn't turn the ball over like crazy now. no org does that to themselves anymore

[yosemiteben]

Dy dude, you're in here guns blazing because Melo sat one half of one game, just like Miles (a guy you say JB favors too much). I'm not saying JB is perfect, I'm not really addressing the issues you have with him. I'm saying Melo needs to not feel like he's the Messiah that can do no wrong when he's out there, so sitting him once isn't that big of a deal.

This seems like being dramatic.

[DY_nasty]

Dy dude, you're in here guns blazing because Melo sat one half of one game. I'm not saying JB is perfect, I'm not stressing the perceived issues you have with him. I'm saying Melo needs to not feel like he's the Messiah that can do no wrong when he's out there, so sitting him once isn't that big of a deal.

This seems like being dramatic.

no, i'm not mad melo sat....

i post like this all the time when i get stuck at work and have time to kill. i wasn't even mad in the game thread that he sat. knock yourself out - go take a look where i demand ball get back in the game. blow my mind.

its not there. why?

i'm stating, again, that borrego's failure to prepare our guys did the entire team a disservice after 5 days off - and the headline afterwards isn't "I need to do a better job getting our guys on the same page" its "lamelo needs to stop turning the ball over". he failed as a coach in that game more than lamelo did trying to make something out of nothing.

that is plainly problematic. and again, i like JB, but stuff like this is how you make your seat hotter than it has to be in a low expectation season. and i don't want to see JB screw himself out developing as well.

[Diop]

My concern with LaMelo coming in was him being too reckless and casual with the ball. I don’t mind the short leash. LaMelo has been good for most of the season, hopefully this keeps him on that path

[oldshoolballer]

Don't have a problem with JB critiquing Melo privately. Have a big problem going public with it . You keep that in house coach.

[BigSlam]

and the headline afterwards isn't "I need to do a better job getting our guys on the same page" its "lamelo needs to stop turning the ball over".

You’re taking one line out of a series of quotes and putting all your focus on that.

It’s what the media does as well. With LaMelo being a lightning rod all of the focus has been put on that one thing that was said.

JB said a lot of different things after the Bulls game, not just that LaMelo needed to be better with the ball (which was an accurate statement anyway).

Either way, like I said earlier it appears that JB values protecting the ball as a very high priority, that didn’t happen and LaMelo seemed to be forcing the issue in the 1st half so LaMelo got to observe a game for the 2nd half - which there is also tremendous value in doing at times.

It was just one half of one game and really not worth getting worked up over IMO.

[BigSlam]

And to cap it off, LaMelo seems mature and aware enough to agree!!

Ball, who said he was "rushing a lot of stuff," agreed that he had struggled the last two games.

“Last two games, I don’t think I’ve been doing real well. I’m going to try to amp it up a little next game.”

[Diop]

“He’s done a lot of good things for us, especially our offensive end, pushing our pace, getting us great looks,” Borrego said. “He makes us better, especially offensively and that’s without me even coaching him a whole lot. He just instinctively has this knack to make things happen offensively.”

While doing so, he sometimes stacks up the miscues like he did against the Bulls, turning it over on five occasions in 17 minutes. He didn’t play at all in the fourth quarter and only logged 1:17 in the second half in total.

Cutting back on the turnovers are a necessity and it’s one of the things Borrego pointed out to Ball in their film study leading up to the game, underscoring the importance of proper tempo.

“He’s been going 100 miles an hour,” Borrego said. “He’s trying to make plays every single time he touches it, which is great. Love that mentality. That’s what makes him special. But there’s moments to slow down and run stuff and get us certain looks. And that’s on me to coach him. So it’s really figuring out those moments. How to use Gordon, how to use Terry (Rozier), how to use Tae around you, and you and not always having to be the guy to make the play.

“And that just comes over time. He’s just going to learn that and watching film and understanding what we wan to do. That’s part of his growth and development. I’ll guarantee you six months from now he’ll be a lot better. That’s a really positive thing for us.”

But in the interim, Borrego wants Ball to also focus on locking in on the less glamorous side of the ball. Make sure he knows where to be for weak-side help. Understand the rotations in coverage. And adjust to what he’s seeing.

“Every game is so different,” Borrego said. “Just because it looks OK one game because it’s a certain coverage and it’s clean, in the next game it’s different. The league is different. You have to adapt and you have to learn personnel. You have to learn tendencies. You have to learn different sets and we are throwing a ton at this guy. We are in different coverages, we are in deferent defenses. We are doing a lot defensively right now, which is not ideal for a young guy. But I know he’s capable. And that’s what I’m asking him to do. ‘I need more from you defensively.’ And he’s more than capable of handling that.”

[johanliebert]

Don't have a problem with JB critiquing Melo privately. Have a big problem going public with it . You keep that in house coach.

I think he would in most situation's but hes got to be feeling the pressure here. On one hand the media will drum down the theme of why isn't lamelo ball the 3rd overall pick starting yet? when will he get more PT? and as mentioned earlier lavar ball caught headlines criticizing him already.

[johanliebert]

And to cap it off, LaMelo seems mature and aware enough to agree!!

Ball, who said he was "rushing a lot of stuff," agreed that he had struggled the last two games.

“Last two games, I don’t think I’ve been doing real well. I’m going to try to amp it up a little next game.”

a kid that good will obviously hold himself to a high standard. If he can see certain passes before they're there then he knows when he forced stuff.

he still isnt pleased coming off the bench.

[Hornet Mania]

I was a little miffed by how JB handled Melo the last game but not terribly bent out of shape. The quote he gave the media was totally unnecessary though, I don't think it was very helpful to the situation. Just seemed like an inexperienced coach trying to sound tough, it would have been better left unsaid. Leave those comments in the locker room.

[JMAC3]

I will say I am not mad about the occasional benching because you are playing poorly, but has JB done that to anyone else this year?

I can not think of a specific example where a guy was just pulled from the rotation midgame. I just don't think the answer is to make an example of your youngest player when things like this happen... it is expected he will have a bad game here or there.

[BigSlam]

I will say I am not mad about the occasional benching because you are playing poorly, but has JB done that to anyone else this year?

I can not think of a specific example where a guy was just pulled from the rotation midgame. I just don't think the answer is to make an example of your youngest player when things like this happen... it is expected he will have a bad game here or there.

You shouldn’t have to think too hard.

He did the same thing to Bridges in the same game for the same reasons.

[SWedd523]

I was a little miffed by how JB handled Melo the last game but not terribly bent out of shape. The quote he gave the media was totally unnecessary though, I don't think it was very helpful to the situation. Just seemed like an inexperienced coach trying to sound tough, it would have been better left unsaid. Leave those comments in the locker room.

It's almost like he made a much larger quote with a lot more exposition on the topic... Then one little snippet was used with no context by the media in order to rile up a bunch of people and elicit a big response.

Talk about weird. The media would never do something like that

[JMAC3]

I will say I am not mad about the occasional benching because you are playing poorly, but has JB done that to anyone else this year?

I can not think of a specific example where a guy was just pulled from the rotation midgame. I just don't think the answer is to make an example of your youngest player when things like this happen... it is expected he will have a bad game here or there.

You shouldn’t have to think too hard.

He did the same thing to Bridges in the same game for the same reasons.

Not sure that is the same thing. Miles and LaMelo came in at the same time in the third, Lamelo was benched 90 seconds later. Miles played the next 6 minutes of the third, but he did not play any minutes in the 4th.

We played the same guys the majority of the 4th (Terry whole 4th), so I do not know if that was a Miles benching or just riding the hot hands.