Tank World Order

[Duffman100]

The Cavs are better than the Raptors, have a much better nucleus of young talent and are in a position to deal vets like Love, Drummond and Love for assets without affecting their on court production at all. They lost a top 3 player of all time for nothing and they did this in 2 years basically.

Drummond's value was non-existent when they acquired him for scraps and even if they end up with two 2nd rounders they basically doubled their value.

They got assets to take on McGee and they will end up getting probably another 2nd at least for him.

The Cavs were tanking for high picks, didn't get the picks they necesarily wanted, but still are in a great position because lone behold, tanking doesn't just involve trading everyone and praying for a #1 pick.

Tanking involves rebuilding and rebuilding involves asset collection which the Cavs have been smart about.

Be honest, if we came out of a rebuild with Sexland, LN Jr and Allen, this board would be in shambles

The same people saying this current core is going nowhere would be the first ones saying that core can't win it all and they blew the tank

Like I can confidently say these Cavs accomplish nothing in the next 5 years

Exactly. Sexton, Garland, Okoro and Allen is that really taht much better than FVV, OG, Siakam? For the next 5 years.

They might have a few more assets, but let's not pretend they're going to get a king's ransom for Love and Drummond.

[Pooh_Jeter]

The Cavs are better than the Raptors, have a much better nucleus of young talent and are in a position to deal vets like Love, Drummond and Love for assets without affecting their on court production at all. They lost a top 3 player of all time for nothing and they did this in 2 years basically.

Drummond's value was non-existent when they acquired him for scraps and even if they end up with two 2nd rounders they basically doubled their value.

They got assets to take on McGee and they will end up getting probably another 2nd at least for him.

The Cavs were tanking for high picks, didn't get the picks they necesarily wanted, but still are in a great position because lone behold, tanking doesn't just involve trading everyone and praying for a #1 pick.

Tanking involves rebuilding and rebuilding involves asset collection which the Cavs have been smart about.

Be honest, if we came out of a rebuild with Sexland, LN Jr and Allen, this board would be in shambles

The same people saying this current core is going nowhere would be the first ones saying that core can't win it all and they blew the tank

Like I can confidently say these Cavs accomplish nothing in the next 5 years

Sexland, Okoro and Allen in two years is pretty damn solid. It isn't a guaranteed championship or anything, but plenty of upside given the strides Sexland in particular have made this year. They have tons of cap flexibility and have extra draft capital too.

Raptors fans constantly overrate the young talent on the team. The comparisons TD2 was getting last year were crazy and people are ready to anoint OG as the next Kawhi Leonard. There would be extremes on both ends of the spectrum, but Raptors fans would be overwhelmingly happy if Masai had constructed that team 2 years into a rebuild.

[Duffman100]

The Cavs are better than the Raptors, have a much better nucleus of young talent and are in a position to deal vets like Love, Drummond and Love for assets without affecting their on court production at all. They lost a top 3 player of all time for nothing and they did this in 2 years basically.

Drummond's value was non-existent when they acquired him for scraps and even if they end up with two 2nd rounders they basically doubled their value.

They got assets to take on McGee and they will end up getting probably another 2nd at least for him.

The Cavs were tanking for high picks, didn't get the picks they necesarily wanted, but still are in a great position because lone behold, tanking doesn't just involve trading everyone and praying for a #1 pick.

Tanking involves rebuilding and rebuilding involves asset collection which the Cavs have been smart about.

Be honest, if we came out of a rebuild with Sexland, LN Jr and Allen, this board would be in shambles

The same people saying this current core is going nowhere would be the first ones saying that core can't win it all and they blew the tank

Like I can confidently say these Cavs accomplish nothing in the next 5 years

Sexland, Okoro and Allen in two years is pretty damn solid. It isn't a guaranteed championship or anything, but plenty of upside given the strides Sexland in particular have made this year. They have tons of cap flexibility and have extra draft capital too.

Raptors fans constantly overrate the young talent on the team. The comparisons TD2 was getting last year were crazy and people are ready to anoint OG as the next Kawhi Leonard. There would be extremes on both ends of the spectrum, but Raptors fans would be overwhelmingly happy if Masai had constructed that team 2 years into a rebuild.

We also underrate our players as well.

FVV had really impressive games this season.
OG has impressive games.
Even in Siakam's bad games, he's still putting up like 15, 15 and 6.

It's not like our guys are scrubs out there...we're just use to winning 50+ games every year and being 2nd round / CF calibre teams.

[Pooh_Jeter]

We also underrate our players as well.

FVV had really impressive games this season.
OG has impressive games.
Even in Siakam's bad games, he's still putting up like 15, 15 and 6.

It's not like our guys are scrubs out there...we're just use to winning 50+ games every year and being 2nd round / CF calibre teams.

To a degree, there will always be emotions and extremes, but I think we are seeing the limitations of that core this year. Realistically FVV and Siakam are in their primes, they can still get better, but it will be incrementally and their peaks and valleys are still far too large. A star is most valuable for their consistency. OG has room to grow, but I don't think anyone is counting on him to be an offensive fulcrum.

What's exciting about the Cavs is a guy like Sexland is 22 and putting up 22.5 on 51/46/80. It's not just a blip, he had a really nice season last year too. Garland has been hurt, but he looks fully back physically and started the season off strong. That is 2 guys who can get their own shot and score efficiently. Okoro and Allen compliment them perfectly too. You have a mix of youth, upside and fit.

There is no guarantee the Cavs are contenders, but they have put themselves in a position to be a top young team and this is despite tanking and not getting anything close to their first choice of prospects.

[Duffman100]

We also underrate our players as well.

FVV had really impressive games this season.
OG has impressive games.
Even in Siakam's bad games, he's still putting up like 15, 15 and 6.

It's not like our guys are scrubs out there...we're just use to winning 50+ games every year and being 2nd round / CF calibre teams.

To a degree, there will always be emotions and extremes, but I think we are seeing the limitations of that core this year. Realistically FVV and Siakam are in their primes, they can still get better, but it will be incrementally and their peaks and valleys are still far too large. A star is most valuable for their consistency. OG has room to grow, but I don't think anyone is counting on him to be an offensive fulcrum.

What's exciting about the Cavs is a guy like Sexland is 22 and putting up 22.5 on 51/46/80. It's not just a blip, he had a really nice season last year too. Garland has been hurt, but he looks fully back physically and started the season off strong. That is 2 guys who can get their own shot and score efficiently. Okoro and Allen compliment them perfectly too. You have a mix of youth, upside and fit.

There is no guarantee the Cavs are contenders, but they have put themselves in a position to be a top young team and this is despite tanking and not getting anything close to their first choice of prospects.

He had a good season last year, but has definitely started hot this year. Expect that to cool down and regress a bit, especially as teams (not the Nets) start to game plan him. When you see that with his meh defense, he's a good young prospect, but a star? Hasn't proven it yet.

Garland is alright. Allen is a good young big, but has his limitations as well.

I don't see the Cavs as having any first option prospects, which severely limits them (as with us)

Right now I'm seeing a bit of overrating of other team's players and underrating of ours.

We could easily be 11-5 right now if ball had bounced a different way. Clearly they didn't and we are 7-9.

I don't think this is a championship core, but it's a major piece away from being in the conversation.

[Yeezus_]

Sexton is way overperforming right now, it isn't sustainable. I still don't see him as a top 3 option on a championship level team but we'll see.

[KL78192020]

Sexton is way overperforming right now, it isn't sustainable. I still don't see him as a top 3 option on a championship level team but we'll see.

Why not? hes 22 and has got progressively better each year in the league. That doesn't look like anything to crazy, his FG% might come down a bit. But his numbers aren't to crazy from his 1st to 2nd year and now in his 3rd year.

[Steelo Green]

Sexton is way overperforming right now, it isn't sustainable. I still don't see him as a top 3 option on a championship level team but we'll see.

He averaged 21 last year on 47% shooting as a PG, and upped it to 25.5. Doesn't seem that major given the progression in his career, just a young player getting better.

52% as a PG is high, but given his improvement year by year, 48-49 isn't crazy.

[Duffman100]

Sexton up from 38% - 45% from 3.

Pascal is down 36% to 25%.

You have to expect those numbers to regress back closer to what they were before.

[Duffman100]

Sexton is way overperforming right now, it isn't sustainable. I still don't see him as a top 3 option on a championship level team but we'll see.

He averaged 21 last year on 47% shooting as a PG, and upped it to 25.5. Doesn't seem that major given the progression in his career, just a young player getting better.

52% as a PG is high, but given his improvement year by year, 48-49 isn't crazy.

47/38/84 vs 52/47/81

That 3p% is set for regression which drastically effects his production. To think he'll keep up that production, he'll be one of the best shooters in the league. If he does...wow.

[KL78192020]

Sexton up from 38% - 45% from 3.

Pascal is down 36% to 25%.

You have to expect those numbers to regress back closer to what they were before.

why put down other teams players to say the Raptors are better? Doncic's shooting percentages are also down, so I guess Siakam is better than Doncic? its a weird way to justify player outcomes.

[Duffman100]

Sexton up from 38% - 45% from 3.

Pascal is down 36% to 25%.

You have to expect those numbers to regress back closer to what they were before.

why put down other teams players to say the Raptors are better? Doncic's shooting percentages are also down, so I guess Siakam is better than Doncic? its a weird way to justify player outcomes.

Comments like this add no value and are ridiculous. I didn't say that.

I said there are shooting #s that are set to regress back to where they were. To credit one player for a hot start and say another player for a cold start, but not acknowledge the statistical likely to equal out

Doncic will also start to climb as well.

[KL78192020]

Sexton up from 38% - 45% from 3.

Pascal is down 36% to 25%.

You have to expect those numbers to regress back closer to what they were before.

why put down other teams players to say the Raptors are better? Doncic's shooting percentages are also down, so I guess Siakam is better than Doncic? its a weird way to justify player outcomes.

Comments like this add no value and are ridiculous. I didn't say that.

I said there are shooting #s that are set to regress back to where they were. To credit one player for a hot start and say another player for a cold start, but not acknowledge the statistical likely to equal out

Doncic will also start to climb as well.

I mean the only reason Sexton/Garland were brought up were to demonstrate a different way to team building. Their team is .500 and is having some success, but for some reason people need to find a way to put their players down. Just as ridiculous.

[Duffman100]

why put down other teams players to say the Raptors are better? Doncic's shooting percentages are also down, so I guess Siakam is better than Doncic? its a weird way to justify player outcomes.

Comments like this add no value and are ridiculous. I didn't say that.

I said there are shooting #s that are set to regress back to where they were. To credit one player for a hot start and say another player for a cold start, but not acknowledge the statistical likely to equal out

Doncic will also start to climb as well.

I mean the only reason Sexton/Garland were brought up were to demonstrate a different way to team building. Their team is .500 and is having some success, but for some reason people need to find a way to put their players down. Just as ridiculous.

Just as ridiculous as not acknowledging the bounce back of players.

If Sexton is indeed a 52/46/80 slash player and shoots like Steve Nash, cool that's incredible.

I think the odds are he's started hot and will regress. Still a good player, but a top 1 or 2 option? Not sold on it yet.

S

[Pooh_Jeter]

Sexton is just a plain better shooter/scorer. You have 3 seasons worth of data and he has been a nearly 40% shooter from 3 for his career and his mid range shooting has steadily increased. This isn't just catch and shoot or assisted baskets either. His FTR is better than Siakam's as well.

Sexton as a freshman in college was a dynamic scorer, Siakam has steadily had to work and at his absolute best he was a league average jump shooter.

[Harcore Fenton Mun]

I still wouldn't watch the rest of the Cav's season if you paid me. Just saying.

[Duffman100]

Sexton is just a plain better shooter/scorer. You have 3 seasons worth of data and he has been a nearly 40% shooter from 3 for his career and his mid range shooting has steadily increased. This isn't just catch and shoot or assisted baskets either. His FTR is better than Siakam's as well.

Sexton as a freshman in college was a dynamic scorer, Siakam has steadily had to work and at his absolute best he was a league average jump shooter.

It isn't about who is a better shooter. Sexton is clearly a better shooter.

The conversation is about "Is Sexton on a hot streak and is bound to regress".

[Danny1616]

Pooh is on the Cleveland Cavaliers hype train, this is hilarious, lol.

[Danny1616]

why put down other teams players to say the Raptors are better? Doncic's shooting percentages are also down, so I guess Siakam is better than Doncic? its a weird way to justify player outcomes.

Comments like this add no value and are ridiculous. I didn't say that.

I said there are shooting #s that are set to regress back to where they were. To credit one player for a hot start and say another player for a cold start, but not acknowledge the statistical likely to equal out

Doncic will also start to climb as well.

I mean the only reason Sexton/Garland were brought up were to demonstrate a different way to team building. Their team is .500 and is having some success, but for some reason people need to find a way to put their players down. Just as ridiculous.

Because we are barely 15 games into the season.

I remember the Magic got to an 8-4 start in the 2018 season and people thought they made the jump. Vucecic was posting insane numbers, Fournier looked like a near all-star and Gordon was showing glimpses of star potential. You know what happened? They finished 25-57. Look at them now, three years later, still a treadmill 7-10 seed. Vucecic and Gordon havn't improved at all.

[Pooh_Jeter]

Sexton is just a plain better shooter/scorer. You have 3 seasons worth of data and he has been a nearly 40% shooter from 3 for his career and his mid range shooting has steadily increased. This isn't just catch and shoot or assisted baskets either. His FTR is better than Siakam's as well.

Sexton as a freshman in college was a dynamic scorer, Siakam has steadily had to work and at his absolute best he was a league average jump shooter.

It isn't about who is a better shooter. Sexton is clearly a better shooter.

The conversation is about "Is Sexton on a hot streak and is bound to regress".

He is most likely going to regress some, but given his upward trajectory and the stats he put up last year if he ends up at say 48/39/80 with an increased FTR that is super impressive. That is CJ McCollum territory and given his age he could end up better than that for sure.