CP3 vs Rubio

[m1chal]

I'm also team Rubio. He fit like a glove, played well for us and helped changing the culture of the team. I think we did him dirty by trading him after only one season. In the trade we also lost Oubre, who could be flipped for an asset and an additional pick. After 15 games of CP3 I'm not impressed. Chemistry with Book seems bad, the team plays slowly and shoots way too many 3s. CP3 is not the same player he used to be and we owe him some absurd amount of money.
I understand why Jones took the gamble but I think he made a mistake.

[Bogyo]

I'm also team Rubio. He fit like a glove, played well for us and helped changing the culture of the team. I think we did him dirty by trading him after only one season. In the trade we also lost Oubre, who could be flipped for an asset and an additional pick. After 15 games of CP3 I'm not impressed. Chemistry with Book seems bad, the team plays slowly and shoots way too many 3s. CP3 is not the same player he used to be and we owe him some absurd amount of money.
I understand why Jones took the gamble but I think he made a mistake.

Yeah, kinda the same boat I'm in. I understand why Jones took the gamble, but I did not love the trade... kinda talked myself into it... hated the asset management point of view as per usual with pretty much all of JJ's trades, and the money on this contract... I was more afraid that CP will eat DeAndre alive if he is acting like a wuss, but that hasn't been the case, so we are good on that part at least. I wanted the team to take more 3s last year, but yeah we are a bit on the other side of the proverbial fence. We'll see how the rest goes, and I truly think we'll have a good run this year (2nd round), but I'm not very optimistic about next year when CP will be even older, and I don't think we'll be able to flip his contract, with no draftpick to begin with.

[Blonde]

I’ll take the hall of famer.

Maybe we could bring in Stockton or Magic while we are at it. Both are legit better in ther HoF PG carreers than CP.

Good post.

[bwgood77]

Last year we also started 8-7 with Rubio but also were 8-10 3 games later. And 26-39 before the bubble. I imagine we will be better than those records, and we may play the next 2-3 games without Booker after missing him to close out the first against Denver and then missing him all of the next Denver game, along with Cam with most of the 1st OT and all the 2nd OT and Ayton over the last minute of 1st OT and end of 2nd. Without those injuries, I imagine we win at least one of those.

We already beat Utah and Denver on a road b2b and Utah is currently 13-4...Denver was in the WCF and Utah had Denver on the ropes in the playoffs 3-1. We also beat Dallas, crushed the Pelicans, beat Toronto and Indiana. These are all good wins.

Last year we also played Denver and Utah early like this year and instead of winning both, we lost both.

CP3 started 8-12 last year with OKC and finished 36-16...so adjustment takes time.

People are making knee jerk reactions as usual and we are better. We may not have had Ayton early last year, but Baynes was a huge part of our success early until he got injured, and then got great near the end of the season when he started draining 3s. He was a WAY better backup too even when not playing well, than Frank.

I really liked Rubio, but it forced us to rely too much on Booker at the end. We also had Oubre, but I'd rather have the guy who was the most clutch in the NBA last year in the last 5 minutes than Rubio and Oubre for that.

I definitely didn't totally like the trade because I felt there was a good chance Paul declines and/or misses games like he did 3 of the last 4 games (missing around 25% of them each year), especially next year with the decline, and Rubio may still have had some upside left. I also thought we could re-sign Rubio in 2 years if needed, with his bird rights....we could potentially still re-sign him in 2 years, but it may prove difficult even with Paul expiring if we have big Ayton and Bridges extensions, with Crowder still on the books. If we did want Rubio we might need to trade Crowder and Carter for him at some point this year or next.

I'd love to have Rubio as a backup, insuranc and for the future.

I do hope we can find a future PG in the draft this year though. A lot of good ones.

[GoodBehavior]

I don't mind the Chris Paul trade because on the surface, it made a lot of sense. Especially when you factored in the Oubre situation (and his potential salary bump) and whether he was going to stay.

My only gripe is I wonder how much due diligence James and Monty did. The Chris Paul that is playing now looks nothing like the Chris Paul of last year. I also wonder if they even care what the addition meant to Book. Crowder and Paul has helped the defense but the spacing with Crowder has been an issue for Book. And Book and Oubre seemed to be good buddies as well.

[Revived]

I don’t get the “knee jerk reaction” argument. Have the Suns at any time in the last 10 years started off the season slow and then gone on a run to finish as a playoff team? The answer is obviously no.

It’s not to say the team can’t turn it around, they very well may but there’s no precedent for it. There are some teams in all sports that always start slow and then by the end of the season their in the playoffs and maybe even top 5 or top 6.

That’s not us. Yet every season for the last 10 years, there’s this harping on “knee jerk reactions” which don’t make sense.

This is a valid reaction and a valid concern based on how this team has done.

[bwgood77]

I don’t get the “knee jerk reaction” argument. Have the Suns at any time in the last 10 years started off the season slow and then gone on a run to finish as a playoff team? The answer is obviously no.

It’s not to say the team can’t turn it around, they very well may but there’s no precedent for it. There are some teams in all sports that always start slow and then by the end of the season their in the playoffs and maybe even top 5 or top 6.

That’s not us. Yet every season for the last 10 years, there’s this harping on “knee jerk reactions” which don’t make sense.

This is a valid reaction and a valid concern based on how this team has done.

No, but they have a much better roster as mentioned, have not started slow, are currently in the playoff mix already, and have lost some close ones, the last two while missing players. Even with this start they have the 5th best SRS in the west behind the LA teams, Utah and Denver. Now if the Suns have COVID players out or more teams benefit by playing more teams when their opponents have players out to COVID, it could help other teams, but based on our play to date, we are tracking to make the playoffs.

I will never say I expect to make the playoffs when we haven't come close other than last year when we had the same start and 6 years ago when we also started 8-7. Both of those years we missed by one game.

But I think we are better than last year, at least the version in which Baynes was injured for most of it. I won't count the bubble since most of the big wins were against teams resting their starters or with all stars out.

But like I said, we've had a number of impressive wins.

Now I know a lot of you guys thought we were a WCF team or even a second round playoff team. That certainly wasn't my expectations. I thought we'd be in the playoff hunt with 2nd tier group fighting for those last 3-4 playoff spots, not something we really could have said in pretty much the last decade.

[bigfoot]

Two years of Rubio or two Paul on the court may not be that big of a difference but ... it is what each of them brings out of Ayton over two years. I'll still argue that CP3 will force Ayton to make bigger improvements in basketball than Rubio.

[sasquatchBob]

Two years of Rubio or two Paul on the court may not be that big of a difference but ... it is what each of them brings out of Ayton over two years. I'll still argue that CP3 will force Ayton to make bigger improvements in basketball than Rubio.

This is probably very true.

[Revived]

I don’t get the “knee jerk reaction” argument. Have the Suns at any time in the last 10 years started off the season slow and then gone on a run to finish as a playoff team? The answer is obviously no.

It’s not to say the team can’t turn it around, they very well may but there’s no precedent for it. There are some teams in all sports that always start slow and then by the end of the season their in the playoffs and maybe even top 5 or top 6.

That’s not us. Yet every season for the last 10 years, there’s this harping on “knee jerk reactions” which don’t make sense.

This is a valid reaction and a valid concern based on how this team has done.

No, but they have a much better roster as mentioned, have not started slow, are currently in the playoff mix already, and have lost some close ones, the last two while missing players. Even with this start they have the 5th best SRS in the west behind the LA teams, Utah and Denver. Now if the Suns have COVID players out or more teams benefit by playing more teams when their opponents have players out to COVID, it could help other teams, but based on our play to date, we are tracking to make the playoffs.

I will never say I expect to make the playoffs when we haven't come close other than last year when we had the same start and 6 years ago when we also started 8-7. Both of those years we missed by one game.

But I think we are better than last year, at least the version in which Baynes was injured for most of it. I won't count the bubble since most of the big wins were against teams resting their starters or with all stars out.

But like I said, we've had a number of impressive wins.

Now I know a lot of you guys thought we were a WCF team or even a second round playoff team. That certainly wasn't my expectations. I thought we'd be in the playoff hunt with 2nd tier group fighting for those last 3-4 playoff spots, not something we really could have said in pretty much the last decade.

Suns don’t look like a team that’s gonna be fighting for a playoff spot, they look like they are trying for for Cade Cunningham and setting up the backcourt for the future.

[bwgood77]

I don’t get the “knee jerk reaction” argument. Have the Suns at any time in the last 10 years started off the season slow and then gone on a run to finish as a playoff team? The answer is obviously no.

It’s not to say the team can’t turn it around, they very well may but there’s no precedent for it. There are some teams in all sports that always start slow and then by the end of the season their in the playoffs and maybe even top 5 or top 6.

That’s not us. Yet every season for the last 10 years, there’s this harping on “knee jerk reactions” which don’t make sense.

This is a valid reaction and a valid concern based on how this team has done.

No, but they have a much better roster as mentioned, have not started slow, are currently in the playoff mix already, and have lost some close ones, the last two while missing players. Even with this start they have the 5th best SRS in the west behind the LA teams, Utah and Denver. Now if the Suns have COVID players out or more teams benefit by playing more teams when their opponents have players out to COVID, it could help other teams, but based on our play to date, we are tracking to make the playoffs.

I will never say I expect to make the playoffs when we haven't come close other than last year when we had the same start and 6 years ago when we also started 8-7. Both of those years we missed by one game.

But I think we are better than last year, at least the version in which Baynes was injured for most of it. I won't count the bubble since most of the big wins were against teams resting their starters or with all stars out.

But like I said, we've had a number of impressive wins.

Now I know a lot of you guys thought we were a WCF team or even a second round playoff team. That certainly wasn't my expectations. I thought we'd be in the playoff hunt with 2nd tier group fighting for those last 3-4 playoff spots, not something we really could have said in pretty much the last decade.

Suns don’t look like a team that’s gonna be fighting for a playoff spot, they look like they are trying for for Cade Cunningham and setting up the backcourt for the future.

We didn't tonight, and that was our worst game yet, but I think replacing Nader, Moore and Frank with Cam, Payne and Saric will help more than you may be thinking, along of course with having Booker back.

Our bench was our key but we are also missing our best player.

Still no excuse to play with the effort we had tonight though.

[Revived]

No, but they have a much better roster as mentioned, have not started slow, are currently in the playoff mix already, and have lost some close ones, the last two while missing players. Even with this start they have the 5th best SRS in the west behind the LA teams, Utah and Denver. Now if the Suns have COVID players out or more teams benefit by playing more teams when their opponents have players out to COVID, it could help other teams, but based on our play to date, we are tracking to make the playoffs.

I will never say I expect to make the playoffs when we haven't come close other than last year when we had the same start and 6 years ago when we also started 8-7. Both of those years we missed by one game.

But I think we are better than last year, at least the version in which Baynes was injured for most of it. I won't count the bubble since most of the big wins were against teams resting their starters or with all stars out.

But like I said, we've had a number of impressive wins.

Now I know a lot of you guys thought we were a WCF team or even a second round playoff team. That certainly wasn't my expectations. I thought we'd be in the playoff hunt with 2nd tier group fighting for those last 3-4 playoff spots, not something we really could have said in pretty much the last decade.

Suns don’t look like a team that’s gonna be fighting for a playoff spot, they look like they are trying for for Cade Cunningham and setting up the backcourt for the future.

We didn't tonight, and that was our worst game yet, but I think replacing Nader, Moore and Frank with Cam, Payne and Saric will help more than you may be thinking, along of course with having Booker back.

Our bench was our key but we are also missing our best player.

Still no excuse to play with the effort we had tonight though.

We lost to Washington, Detroit and some other awful team I can’t remember right now with Book (I assume you meant him not Cam Johnson), Payne and Saric all playing.

Suns are still having chemistry and communication issues that teams usually have in first 5-10 games of the season. We’re at game #20 almost now.

One of the main reasons I hated the CP3 trade was because I knew it would be difficult to build chemistry with a shortened training camp, preseason and potential cancelled games (which we’ve had as well).

In the history of the NBA, continuity should’ve been more valued this season than any other season due to the covid circumstances. Instead the Suns wanted to make a flashy move for a 35 yr old PG on a $40M salary.

[Bogyo]

Are we winning close games yet? No? Hmmm... maybe if we brought in a vet pg to help with this issue... oh, wait

[Bogyo]

I’ll take the hall of famer.

Maybe we could bring in Stockton or Magic while we are at it. Both are legit better in ther HoF PG carreers than CP.

Good post.

Thank you kind sire, I don't deserve the praise.
Let me just say I have also admired your post.

[SlovenianDragon]

Doug:
So anyways, I was standing there waiting to use the pay phone.

Steve:
Yeah, he was, seriously.

Doug:
And this guy who was on the phone, turns around and tips his hat like this.

Steve:
And who do you think that guy was?

Doug:
Ricky Rubio.

Steve:
The ex-Phoenix Sun, I swear to God, I was there.

Doug:
Of course you were, you were the one who yelled the point guards name name.

Steve:
I was like, "RUBIOOOOO."

[bwgood77]

Suns don’t look like a team that’s gonna be fighting for a playoff spot, they look like they are trying for for Cade Cunningham and setting up the backcourt for the future.

We didn't tonight, and that was our worst game yet, but I think replacing Nader, Moore and Frank with Cam, Payne and Saric will help more than you may be thinking, along of course with having Booker back.

Our bench was our key but we are also missing our best player.

Still no excuse to play with the effort we had tonight though.

We lost to Washington, Detroit and some other awful team I can’t remember right now with Book (I assume you meant him not Cam Johnson), Payne and Saric all playing.

Suns are still having chemistry and communication issues that teams usually have in first 5-10 games of the season. We’re at game #20 almost now.

One of the main reasons I hated the CP3 trade was because I knew it would be difficult to build chemistry with a shortened training camp, preseason and potential cancelled games (which we’ve had as well).

In the history of the NBA, continuity should’ve been more valued this season than any other season due to the covid circumstances. Instead the Suns wanted to make a flashy move for a 35 yr old PG on a $40M salary.

No, I meant Cam on the bench unit. We are basically a team that would go 9 deep with everyone healthy, with Payne, Carter, Cam and Saric off the bench along with a starter. We put in a dose of Galloway early.

However, Carter isn't really a legit NBA rotation caliber guy, so we really have about 8 legit rotation guys if you include Cam Payne, who played well for his short time in the bubble and to open the season.

But without Booker, Saric and Payne out, you have 5 legit rotation guys, who are all starting, along with the likes of Kaminsky, Nader, etc getting major minutes.

Anyway, yeah those other losses we were a little healthier and had Book, though we were missing Payne in the Washington one.

I don't think any team wins every single game they should on paper, and teams lose to bad teams all the time. I think we have a lot of issues to work out and need to get healthy.

But I think we are better than we were in the past. I think we will stay above 500 and be a team that contends for a playoff spot.

I don't expect us to get to a point where we are 26-39 like last year, or lose 8 in a row like we did last year.

A lot of teams are not playing that well, and we are 1 game back of the 5 seed. Denver is now the 4 seed at 11-7 and we went toe to toe with them while shorthanded when they were suddenly fully healthy.

So I think the team has the ability to pretty much compete with anyone, but they have a problem of overlooking opponents, and of course are banged up right now, missing their star.

Monty clearly seems to have coaching issues.

I'm not that upset with where we are after watching the last 10 years as I think we have a shot at the playoffs this year. I'm also a Chargers fan so I've seen far more disappointing losses and injuries to stars often.

[PharmD]

Doug:
So anyways, I was standing there waiting to use the pay phone.

Steve:
Yeah, he was, seriously.

Doug:
And this guy who was on the phone, turns around and tips his hat like this.

Steve:
And who do you think that guy was?

Doug:
Ricky Rubio.

Steve:
The ex-Phoenix Sun, I swear to God, I was there.

Doug:
Of course you were, you were the one who yelled the point guards name name.

Steve:
I was like, "RUBIOOOOO."

I was reading this like ??? and then i got it

[Revived]

We didn't tonight, and that was our worst game yet, but I think replacing Nader, Moore and Frank with Cam, Payne and Saric will help more than you may be thinking, along of course with having Booker back.

Our bench was our key but we are also missing our best player.

Still no excuse to play with the effort we had tonight though.

We lost to Washington, Detroit and some other awful team I can’t remember right now with Book (I assume you meant him not Cam Johnson), Payne and Saric all playing.

Suns are still having chemistry and communication issues that teams usually have in first 5-10 games of the season. We’re at game #20 almost now.

One of the main reasons I hated the CP3 trade was because I knew it would be difficult to build chemistry with a shortened training camp, preseason and potential cancelled games (which we’ve had as well).

In the history of the NBA, continuity should’ve been more valued this season than any other season due to the covid circumstances. Instead the Suns wanted to make a flashy move for a 35 yr old PG on a $40M salary.

No, I meant Cam on the bench unit. We are basically a team that would go 9 deep with everyone healthy, with Payne, Carter, Cam and Saric off the bench along with a starter. We put in a dose of Galloway early.

However, Carter isn't really a legit NBA rotation caliber guy, so we really have about 8 legit rotation guys if you include Cam Payne, who played well for his short time in the bubble and to open the season.

But without Booker, Saric and Payne out, you have 5 legit rotation guys, who are all starting, along with the likes of Kaminsky, Nader, etc getting major minutes.

Anyway, yeah those other losses we were a little healthier and had Book, though we were missing Payne in the Washington one.

I don't think any team wins every single game they should on paper, and teams lose to bad teams all the time. I think we have a lot of issues to work out and need to get healthy.

But I think we are better than we were in the past. I think we will stay above 500 and be a team that contends for a playoff spot.

I don't expect us to get to a point where we are 26-39 like last year, or lose 8 in a row like we did last year.

A lot of teams are not playing that well, and we are 1 game back of the 5 seed. Denver is now the 4 seed at 11-7 and we went toe to toe with them while shorthanded when they were suddenly fully healthy.

So I think the team has the ability to pretty much compete with anyone, but they have a problem of overlooking opponents, and of course are banged up right now, missing their star.

Monty clearly seems to have coaching issues.

I'm not that upset with where we are after watching the last 10 years as I think we have a shot at the playoffs this year. I'm also a Chargers fan so I've seen far more disappointing losses and injuries to stars often.

This Suns season reminds me of how the Chargers season started actually. Bunch of close games that we lost lol.

Of course Suns were expected to be a playoff team coming in while the Chargers were expected to be bad (and actually did better than most analysts projected them to be).

Chargers also played against really good teams (TB, NO, KC) but still should’ve won. But the Suns lost to some of the worst teams in the league.

[Frank Lee]

Don’t try to blow smoke up my arse as im bent over from the gut punch that is this this offense/squad. We play one half out of 4 good. 10 more games of this **** and it will be a 3 alarmer

[bwgood77]

Yeah, disappointing start. Same thing happening as last year with Rubio. Injured backup C, starting 7-4, but soon 8-8...last year next thing you know we were 8-10, then before you know it 11-20. At least this year the last 3 losses we were missing Booker in crunch time (and entirely the last two)...of course still played Denver tough in both with really encouraging games from Ayton, but this last one was really disappointing. Need Payne back. CP3 almost put the team on his back, but couldn't keep his play going at the very end.