Lets talk Zach Lavine

[FriedRise]

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[CobyWhite0]

i like lavine but i think we end up a better team trading him for a top 2 pick maybe number 1 and draft cade then trading lauri and otto plus anything except pwill for another shot at a top 5 pick before the deadline

This isn’t NBA 2K and Cade isn’t Luka.

Nobody trades unprotected top 1/2 picks like that anymore either.
Anthony Davis' return package included a top 8 protected pick...Anthony Davis.
The most unprotected pick I remember off hand was Minny's to GS, still top 3 protected. So we're still looking at best a #4, like Patrick Williams.

If the Bulls want a top 2 pick, and who doesn't, it will have to be our own.

To the bolded - no, it didn't.

The Pels get the Lakers' 1st round pick in 2021, protected for selections 8-30. It's blatantly obvious that the Lakers pick won't be in the top-7 this summer, at which point the Pels instead get the Lakers' FRP in 2022, completely unprotected. NO also gets the Lakers' 2024 FRP completely unprotected, with NO having the option to delay the pick until 2025. NO also has the option to swap FRP in 2023, again with the Lakers pick having zero protection.

The Pels also have Milwaukee's 2025 and 2027 FRP completely unprotected, plus unprotected swap options for 2024 and 2026

As for MIN/GS, the MIN pick is top-3 protected this summer only - it then becomes completely unprotected in the 2022 draft. Which, of course, means that GS obviously isn't "looking at best a #4".

Houston picked up Brooklyn's 2022, 2024 AND 2026 1st-round picks - completely unprotected - in the Harden trade. Plus a swap option in 2023, 2025 and 2027, again completely unprotected.

OKC has the Clippers' 2024 and 2026 FRP, unprotected.

The Knicks are getting the Mavs FRP this summer, unprotected.

But this entire post is predicated on the fantasy that you can somehow trade for a top-2 pick, or a top-5 pick. Even if you have the rights to a team's 1st rounder, and even if that team finishes with the worst record in the league - you'll have a 27.42% shot at getting a top-2 pick. It's basically 50/50 that the team with the worst record will pick 5th. There's a 60% chance you'll get either #4 or #5.

[erasmusmrr]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/sports.yahoo.com/amphtml/sources-knicks-still-keeping-eye-194647450.html

[MrFortune3]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/sports.yahoo.com/amphtml/sources-knicks-still-keeping-eye-194647450.html

Nah hell. The Knicks ain't got a damn thing we want.

[MisterRoy]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/sports.yahoo.com/amphtml/sources-knicks-still-keeping-eye-194647450.html

Nah hell. The Knicks ain't got a damn thing we want.

Every team that would like to have Zach is doing the same thing. Non-news.


Sent from somewhere you've never been.

[Gert42]

I tend to think the Bulls should keep Lavine until the off-season. While they do lose value from going from 1.5 years to 1 year, I think by waiting the Bulls can see how the lottery results play out. If the TWolves keep their pick this year there is a chance that unprotected could go like the Grizzlies or Kings did to the Celtics.

I think it would be risky to let him walk for nothing or pay him 30+ per year, but if Patrick Williams is the only guy that is untouchable right now there may still be a lot of value in keeping a guy that can score 25 ppg or more that's only 26.

[CjayC]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/sports.yahoo.com/amphtml/sources-knicks-still-keeping-eye-194647450.html

I know they're doing their due diligence, but whatever. Knicks are pathetic.

[MrFortune3]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/sports.yahoo.com/amphtml/sources-knicks-still-keeping-eye-194647450.html

Nah hell. The Knicks ain't got a damn thing we want.

Every team that would like to have Zach is doing the same thing. Non-news.


Sent from somewhere you've never been.

I agree but I want nothing having to do with the Knicks.

[weneeda2guard]

If the knicks are willing to come with the kings ransom sure would give the front office the ability to build the roster their way and not them fiddling with the mess garpax made. A new regime should always be given the opportunity to build from the ground up.

But lavine is still young enough to fit in the timeline of our core and he is still getting better. Not going to just move him just to do it so we can remain the lottery dope fiends getting sold draft day hope. If the past few years showed me anything its being horrible for the draft has too many unsure outcomes and you can come out of draft day worst than you were when you went in. You sit back day dreaming of the best of the draft just to have to settle for whats left of the draft then convince yourself you have the steal of the draft which usually takes a few seasons before you realize you simply just drafted another role player. All these seasons since we traded jimmy butler and lavine is about the only one I can say has some real value. I wouldn't shed a tear if we moved anyone else we got for Jimmy or any of the players we drafted thereafter.

[NZB2323]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/sports.yahoo.com/amphtml/sources-knicks-still-keeping-eye-194647450.html

Nah hell. The Knicks ain't got a damn thing we want.

The article mentions that the Knicks have 5 first-round picks over the next 3 drafts. That's something that I want.

[DroseReturnChi]

I tend to think the Bulls should keep Lavine until the off-season. While they do lose value from going from 1.5 years to 1 year, I think by waiting the Bulls can see how the lottery results play out. If the TWolves keep their pick this year there is a chance that unprotected could go like the Grizzlies or Kings did to the Celtics.

I think it would be risky to let him walk for nothing or pay him 30+ per year, but if Patrick Williams is the only guy that is untouchable right now there may still be a lot of value in keeping a guy that can score 25 ppg or more that's only 26.

2 yr to 1 yr is fking huge im not gambling on that with another possible acl or a jimmy butler type hostage situation.
theres just no way his trade value can go higher its at the peak point.
knicks have some nice picks in 2021 im thirsty for those. make pw into sga number 1 option and draft 3 new prospect in top 10.
Also, seems like AK is cheap and not give him 5/200 if he balked at Lauri's 4/70+ offer.

[Pax for Prez]

What is Zach trade value ?

J. Holiday ( 1 yr left) value was 2 starters (Adams and Bledsoe), 2 1st rd picks and 2 swaps

J. Harden value ( 3 yrs left) was another All star level player (V. Oladipo), 4 1st rd picks and 4 swaps with 2 expiring players (Exam & Kurucs)

Is Zack ( 2 yrs left) worth 3 1sts and 3 swaps from say New York ?

[MrFortune3]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/sports.yahoo.com/amphtml/sources-knicks-still-keeping-eye-194647450.html

Nah hell. The Knicks ain't got a damn thing we want.

The article mentions that the Knicks have 5 first-round picks over the next 3 drafts. That's something that I want.

Which given the likely draft position of the Knicks, means we'd be trading LaVine for a 8-10 selection if not worse for the hopes of drafting a player who would be like LaVine...

[Kukoc-Lauri]

Realisticlly Knicks offer is Mavs 21 and 23 frp, Knox,Nikitlina and O.Toppin or M.Robinson. Maybe Payton as salary filler added or one or two Knicks srp from 23 via Utah, if 21 frp is Mavs not Knicks selection. Robinson would be great fit with Markkanen,Knox still have potential, Frank could be better Sato. Imo picks and question is it Knicks or Mavs in certain years and protections on them is make or break in such a deal. If it is two unprotected first from Knicks and two seconds from double draft in 2023, probably would pull a trigger. With Robinson you have your center of future, PWill is sf, Lauri if resigned pf, White,Knox,W.Carter solid second unit and you still have possibly two loterry picks and 30 mil of cap space in 21. Cade/Suggs/Green with top pick maybe and someone like Keon Johnson,Greg Brown,Springer in late loterry would circled rotation. I would took deep look at Oladipo in free agency. If healthy he is 1b max player still in his prime. Team would look like Cade Cunningham(if lucky),Oladipo,P.Williams,Markkanen,M.Robinson. White,Igoudala-vet leadership,Knox,Keon Johnson,Carter/Gafford.

[cjbulls]

I tend to think the Bulls should keep Lavine until the off-season. While they do lose value from going from 1.5 years to 1 year, I think by waiting the Bulls can see how the lottery results play out. If the TWolves keep their pick this year there is a chance that unprotected could go like the Grizzlies or Kings did to the Celtics.

I think it would be risky to let him walk for nothing or pay him 30+ per year, but if Patrick Williams is the only guy that is untouchable right now there may still be a lot of value in keeping a guy that can score 25 ppg or more that's only 26.

Should Patrick Williams be untouchable? My guess is teams don’t value him as highly as this board, but if he is some great piece (the next Kawhi!) that can land you another youngish all star to put with Zach, maybe that should be the direction.

It seems everyone wants to trade the 25yo to get a bunch more 19yos. I’m just wondering if we can get some mid 20s guys for our 19yos and jumpstart the process.

[Kukoc-Lauri]

I tend to think the Bulls should keep Lavine until the off-season. While they do lose value from going from 1.5 years to 1 year, I think by waiting the Bulls can see how the lottery results play out. If the TWolves keep their pick this year there is a chance that unprotected could go like the Grizzlies or Kings did to the Celtics.

I think it would be risky to let him walk for nothing or pay him 30+ per year, but if Patrick Williams is the only guy that is untouchable right now there may still be a lot of value in keeping a guy that can score 25 ppg or more that's only 26.

Should Patrick Williams be untouchable? My guess is teams don’t value him as highly as this board, but if he is some great piece (the next Kawhi!) that can land you another youngish all star to put with Zach, maybe that should be the direction.

It seems everyone wants to trade the 25yo to get a bunch more 19yos. I’m just wondering if we can get some mid 20s guys for our 19yos and jumpstart the process.

Because with 19,20 you are maybe getting your franchise player. Zach is almost finished product and in best case number two on contender, even that is stretch, probably more suited as number 3 guy. And yet he is good enough to win you some games and cost you guys like Ja,Luka,Zion in the draft. Cade/Green/Suggs/Mobley/Kumminga are all projected to be better players in their primes than Zach. Either you are signing max player to help Zach and Bulls or you are trading Zach for your multiple loterry ticket. Staying put and excpecting different results from this "core" is worst path imo. Ceeling lower seed or play in tournament is trajecttory to Nba hell.

[cjbulls]

I tend to think the Bulls should keep Lavine until the off-season. While they do lose value from going from 1.5 years to 1 year, I think by waiting the Bulls can see how the lottery results play out. If the TWolves keep their pick this year there is a chance that unprotected could go like the Grizzlies or Kings did to the Celtics.

I think it would be risky to let him walk for nothing or pay him 30+ per year, but if Patrick Williams is the only guy that is untouchable right now there may still be a lot of value in keeping a guy that can score 25 ppg or more that's only 26.

Should Patrick Williams be untouchable? My guess is teams don’t value him as highly as this board, but if he is some great piece (the next Kawhi!) that can land you another youngish all star to put with Zach, maybe that should be the direction.

It seems everyone wants to trade the 25yo to get a bunch more 19yos. I’m just wondering if we can get some mid 20s guys for our 19yos and jumpstart the process.

Because with 19,20 you are maybe getting your franchise player. Zach is almost finished product and in best case number two on contender, even that is stretch, probably more suited as number 3 guy. And yet he is good enough to win you some games and cost you guys like Ja,Luka,Zion in the draft. Cade/Green/Suggs/Mobley/Kumminga are all projected to be better players in their primes than Zach. Either you are signing max player to help Zach and Bulls or you are trading Zach for your multiple loterry ticket. Staying put and excpecting different results from this "core" is worst path imo. Ceeling lower seed or play in tournament is trajecttory to Nba hell.

You ignored my post. I didn’t suggest staying put. I said why wouldn’t you use your lottery tickets and cash it in for an established player to pair with Zach (making Zach your #2)

You named three drafted guys who are the only three who happened to be good in the last 5 years, and whose teams are all roughly .500 so I don’t see the big value-add even if you were lucky enough to luck into them.

The idea there are 5 guys who project to be Luka is laughable. It’s a strong draft but in the end only 1 or 2 guys will end up better than Zach

[Kukoc-Lauri]

Should Patrick Williams be untouchable? My guess is teams don’t value him as highly as this board, but if he is some great piece (the next Kawhi!) that can land you another youngish all star to put with Zach, maybe that should be the direction.

It seems everyone wants to trade the 25yo to get a bunch more 19yos. I’m just wondering if we can get some mid 20s guys for our 19yos and jumpstart the process.

Because with 19,20 you are maybe getting your franchise player. Zach is almost finished product and in best case number two on contender, even that is stretch, probably more suited as number 3 guy. And yet he is good enough to win you some games and cost you guys like Ja,Luka,Zion in the draft. Cade/Green/Suggs/Mobley/Kumminga are all projected to be better players in their primes than Zach. Either you are signing max player to help Zach and Bulls or you are trading Zach for your multiple loterry ticket. Staying put and excpecting different results from this "core" is worst path imo. Ceeling lower seed or play in tournament is trajecttory to Nba hell.

You ignored my post. I didn’t suggest staying put. I said why wouldn’t you use your lottery tickets and cash it in for an established player to pair with Zach (making Zach your #2)

You named three drafted guys who are the only three who happened to be good in the last 5 years, and whose teams are all roughly .500 so I don’t see the big value-add even if you were lucky enough to luck into them.

The idea there are 5 guys who project to be Luka is laughable. It’s a strong draft but in the end only 1 or 2 guys will end up better than Zach

I never said that they are new Luka, but they defintevly all can be and are projected to be better than Zach. Ja was in play in games as rookie, Luka almost won playoffs series last year, so i see massive added value to their franchises and future projections. In that case what value Lavine brought in his tenure with Bulls. Zero 30 wins season, zero playoffs, zero all stars, zero stars fa who want to be his running mate. Lavine is 26, his 7 season and his playmaking and defense improved from being awful to being below average or average at best. Iq is what it is. I would rather be completley bad and have top three pick than being in mid to late lottery with Lavine. Kawhi isnt signing here, Oladipo most likley in Miami, Drummond is average player for max contract, Zach Lavine of centers. Even unpopular trading Zach and tanking for Cade/Suggs/Green is our best way to improve longterm.

[NZB2323]

Nah hell. The Knicks ain't got a damn thing we want.

The article mentions that the Knicks have 5 first-round picks over the next 3 drafts. That's something that I want.

Which given the likely draft position of the Knicks, means we'd be trading LaVine for a 8-10 selection if not worse for the hopes of drafting a player who would be like LaVine...

They changed the lottery rules so now so if the Knicks end up with the 8th seed there’s a decent chance they’ll get a top 4 pick. Also this year’s draft is supposed to be really good and next year’s draft is supposed to be the “double draft” where they allow teams to take players straight out of high school.

If the Knicks include all 5 first round picks unprotected it’s something to consider. I like Lavine but he’s a defensive liability and I feel like we’ll have to give him the max in order to keep him and he’s not a top 15 player.

There’s a chance we could get a player much better than Lavine in the lottery.

[cjbulls]

Because with 19,20 you are maybe getting your franchise player. Zach is almost finished product and in best case number two on contender, even that is stretch, probably more suited as number 3 guy. And yet he is good enough to win you some games and cost you guys like Ja,Luka,Zion in the draft. Cade/Green/Suggs/Mobley/Kumminga are all projected to be better players in their primes than Zach. Either you are signing max player to help Zach and Bulls or you are trading Zach for your multiple loterry ticket. Staying put and excpecting different results from this "core" is worst path imo. Ceeling lower seed or play in tournament is trajecttory to Nba hell.

You ignored my post. I didn’t suggest staying put. I said why wouldn’t you use your lottery tickets and cash it in for an established player to pair with Zach (making Zach your #2)

You named three drafted guys who are the only three who happened to be good in the last 5 years, and whose teams are all roughly .500 so I don’t see the big value-add even if you were lucky enough to luck into them.

The idea there are 5 guys who project to be Luka is laughable. It’s a strong draft but in the end only 1 or 2 guys will end up better than Zach

I never said that they are new Luka, but they defintevly all can be and are projected to be better than Zach. Ja was in play in games as rookie, Luka almost won playoffs series last year, so i see massive added value to their franchises and future projections. In that case what value Lavine brought in his tenure with Bulls. Zero 30 wins season, zero playoffs, zero all stars, zero stars fa who want to be his running mate. Lavine is 26, his 7 season and his playmaking and defense improved from being awful to being below average or average at best. Iq is what it is. I would rather be completley bad and have top three pick than being in mid to late lottery with Lavine. Kawhi isnt signing here, Oladipo most likley in Miami, Drummond is average player for max contract, Zach Lavine of centers. Even unpopular trading Zach and tanking for Cade/Suggs/Green is our best way to improve longterm.

Yeah I remember when the Bulls did that after Jordan....and nothing good happened....and then they traded Jimmy Butler....and nothing good happened.

Forgive me if I don't want to sign up for another 5 years of waiting for Kumminga to break out and then hear the explanation for how we just need to get another star so we should trade X (probably even Kumminga) for more draft picks.

We have one all-star, let's get a second. And, if they did it in a smart way, you could set it up so a third signs with you. Not sure what is out there, but that seems like a more reasonable plan than the 2026 plan or whatever it would take.