John Collins Edited: (Hawks Seek Lottery Pick For Collins)

[Spud2nique]

Bulls fan here... Just curious what it would take for the Bulls to add Collins. Does a Coby White for Collins trade make any sense? Collins is clearly the better player, but White is locked up on a rookie deal for the next 4 years.

Doesn't make sense for the Hawks. White plays PG, I can'tsee the Hawks trading Collins for a backup PG behind Trae.
Can he play SG next to Trae? I don't know, but Hawks already have Kevin Huerter, Bogdon Bogdanovich and Cam Reddish at SG. This deal also leaves the Hawks without a reliable starting PF. So Hawks pass on this deal.

He’s more of a shooting guard. Chicago is trying to turn him into a point guard.

The Bulls have Thaddeus Young who has been playing phenomenal this season. Possibly a White + Thad + more?

Do you guys think he stays?

No. He’s not staying. I have inside info from my sources. The other Hawks fans that responded to you are actually sources less and the same person. They don’t speak for the Hawks.

White is good, for you guys not us.

I don’t think Collins is with us for the long haul though. I think he works excellent with Trae in getting points, but as far as us winning in the future, I put my stock on guys like Hunter and Okongwu over JC. Don’t get me wrong I love the guy’s hustle and athleticism but I’m not certain it’s the best route for us to keep him. Having said that, we need to trade for someone of nearly equal value, Coby and Thad, they aren’t it.

[HMFFL]

Writers just need clicks I guess because they continue to write their opinion where they believe Collins should be traded .

I expect him to be a Hawk all season.

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[Jamaaliver]

Bulls fan here... Just curious what it would take for the Bulls to add Collins. Does a Coby White for Collins trade make any sense? Collins is clearly the better player, but White is locked up on a rookie deal for the next 4 years.


He's more of a shooting guard. Chicago is trying to turn him into a point guard. The Bulls have Thaddeus Young who has been playing phenomenal this season. Possibly a White + Thad + more?

Do you guys think he stays?

This trade is less than ideal, but it's not totally crazy. You guys would likely need to add more value and possibly include a third team.

For instance: If you guys are getting John Collins in return...seems like Lauri Markkanen or Wendell Carter. Jr. might become available. In addition, we have a need for a true backup PG -- so how attached are you guys to Tomas Satoransky? Would you guys be willing to include any of Denzel Valentine or Daniel Gafford?

Bulls have enough secondary (and tertiary) assets to at least make things interesting.
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As far as whether Collins stays or go...it's really difficult to say. But our GM won't let him walk away for nothing. Our days of letting top talent walk to other teams for no compensation are over.

[gobullschi]

Bulls fan here... Just curious what it would take for the Bulls to add Collins. Does a Coby White for Collins trade make any sense? Collins is clearly the better player, but White is locked up on a rookie deal for the next 4 years.


He's more of a shooting guard. Chicago is trying to turn him into a point guard. The Bulls have Thaddeus Young who has been playing phenomenal this season. Possibly a White + Thad + more?

Do you guys think he stays?

This trade is less than ideal, but it's not totally crazy. You guys would likely need to add more value and possibly include a third team.

For instance: If you guys are getting John Collins in return...seems like Lauri Markkanen or Wendell Carter. Jr. might become available. In addition, we have a need for a true backup PG -- so how attached are you guys to Tomas Satoransky? Would you guys be willing to include any of Denzel Valentine or Daniel Gafford?

Bulls have enough secondary (and tertiary) assets to at least make things interesting.
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As far as whether Collins stays or go...it's really difficult to say. But our GM won't let him walk away for nothing. Our days of letting top talent walk to other teams for no compensation are over.

Some people were discussing a Lauri Markkanen for Lonzo Ball swap, but that leaves the Bulls with a giant hole at power forward, which is where John Collins name came up as a possibility to fill the void.

Every player on the Bulls would be available not named Zach LaVine or Patrick Williams. What package do you think is fair?

[Jamaaliver]

Some people were discussing a Lauri Markkanen for Lonzo Ball swap, but that leaves the Bulls with a giant hole at power forward, which is where John Collins name came up as a possibility to fill the void.

Every player on the Bulls would be available not named Zach LaVine or Patrick Williams. What package do you think is fair?

A package centered around Markkanen and Coby White for John Collins would be hard to turn down. Especially if Satoransky and Thad Young get tossed in, too.

Our untouchables include Trae, Capela, DeAndre Hunter and Okongwu. Beyond that -- I imagine we'd be pretty flexible for the right trade package.

[gobullschi]

Some people were discussing a Lauri Markkanen for Lonzo Ball swap, but that leaves the Bulls with a giant hole at power forward, which is where John Collins name came up as a possibility to fill the void.

Every player on the Bulls would be available not named Zach LaVine or Patrick Williams. What package do you think is fair?

A package centered around Markkanen and Coby White for John Collins would be hard to turn down. Especially if Satoransky and Thad Young get tossed in, too.

Our untouchables include Trae, Capela, DeAndre Hunter and Okongwu. Beyond that -- I imagine we'd be pretty flexible for the right trade package.

Well in the scenario that I outlined, Lauri Markkanen would be going to New Orleans for Lonzo Ball.

Perhaps a package centered around Coby White + Wendell Carter Jr. for John Collins?

[Jamaaliver]

Perhaps a package centered around Coby White + Wendell Carter Jr. for John Collins?

That package is much less appealing...

[gobullschi]

Perhaps a package centered around Coby White + Wendell Carter Jr. for John Collins?

That package is much less appealing...

Understood. Not sure if other pieces could be added or if this deal is dead in the water.

[Jamaaliver]

Perhaps a package centered around Coby White + Wendell Carter Jr. for John Collins?

Not sure if other pieces could be added or if this deal is dead in the water.

I think we're going to go in a different direction. But thanks.

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[Jamaaliver]

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[jayu70]

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The Atlanta Hawks (11-13)

The John Collins situation in Atlanta will be worth watching as the deadline nears.

Despite the fact that he didn’t come to terms on an extension in the brief offseason, and that so many rival executives believe his NBA future will eventually be elsewhere as a result, there’s a complicating element that is coming into play: He’s a pivotal part of their team right now. And considering the widely-known reality that the playoffs are a massive priority for owner Tony Ressler & Co., that makes the prospect of trading Collins quite tricky.

No matter how much interest there might be.

Entering Friday’s game against San Antonio, Collins is second on the team behind Trae Young in scoring (18.5 points per game), second behind Clint Capela in rebounding (7.8 per), second behind Capela in blocks (one per), and third in minutes behind Young and DeAndre Hunter (31.9). Even if there was a quality deal to be had that added future assets, his production in the present is so crucial that it appears unlikely that he’ll be on the move. Nonetheless, sources say the Hawks have shown a willingness to listen to offers for Collins (this should surprise no one).

In the macro, where Collins’ choice to turn down an extension worth more than $90 million made it clear that he was looking for a bigger payday than the Hawks are comfortable providing, these dynamics remain the same. Collins, who is a restricted free agent this summer, sees himself as a max player and the Hawks don’t. Still, the fact that they need him right now could win out during their push for the playoffs before the process plays out in the offseason.

[HMFFL]

Even if there was a quality deal to be had that added future assets, his production in the present is so crucial that it appears unlikely that he’ll be on the move. Nonetheless, sources say the Hawks have shown a willingness to listen to offers for Collins (this should surprise no one).

 

– via Sam Amick @ The Athletic



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[D21]

...In the macro, where Collins’ choice to turn down an extension worth more than $90 million made it clear that he was looking for a bigger payday than the Hawks are comfortable providing, these dynamics remain the same.

No, no, it's "were", not "are".
It's an important difference and this kind of missed detail in media makes me always asking myself if they don't understand the difference or the importance, or if they understand and decide to write the wrong option because it makes more buzz to read "oh, they don't want to pay him more than 90M", than "didn't want to pay him more than 90M before seeing more of what he's really worth in this roster"

[HMFFL]

With Collins in trade headlines again it will be interesting to see if he continues to put up the numbers he's had as of late.

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[tbhawksfan1]

I would be surprised to see a trade. Biggest reason is playoff ambition. Another problem is getting equal value. Teams will see his talent and then look at his re-sign cost and not want to give the value.

Maybe the biggest problem facing the team right now is the forced playoff ambition.

I think that if he's still here at the end of the season, he will be retained. Too much talent to lose. Problem is that a maxed JC as the third or fourth best player is not good value. If he's second best Hawks probobly aren't winning much.....

Maybe the biggest problem is coaching... too much talent to be sucking this bad and it appears to me that Trae is not at his best

What would a very good coach do with this amount of talent? How about development? Pierce got to go

[Spud2nique]

Wow.

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[D21]

Guys, I came to a conclusion on this situation, what's your thoughts on this :
I always thought John should get the same kind of contract than Sabonis. Per36, they are on the same level, with more RBD and AST for Sabonis, and more BLK and better 3pts% for John.
So why his agent, and some people think he should get more ?

For a simple reason : everybody will say that Sabonis got his contract before taking his game to the next level, and it's wrong, he just played more.
Sabonis had 24min per game in his 3rd year and less than 10 FG attempts, when we let John in his third year (last season), in a empty roster, get 33min and 15FG attempts !

Bingo, here is why his agent refused the 90M offer (I myself would have offer 100M instead, but it's not my money), just because of bad management.
I always said you need to at least have some good veterans around your guys on rookie deals, to let them improve in the middle of a roster like it will be the day the team is contending. Instead, they let John play and looking more important than what he's really.
Don't get me wrong, he's great, but he didn't show Max players impact yet.
Max him out, and it's opening the door for everybody on this roster to ask more than they are worth, or not being able to build a contender, like it already happen so many times for teams in this situation.

IND is not in this case, and with a really well build team, on the court and contract wise.

I'm against Max for any players shining with a team and even not getting to the playoffs.
If all contracts could be structured like 50% guaranteed and 50% based on TEAM goals ( and not "individual stats bonus" that can make a player playing for himself more than for the team, a stupidity in any collective sports team), it would be easier, but that's not the case, so the only solution, especially for a team that is not a big market, is to avoid to let your young guys shine too much in their three first years, and it's certainly better for them to also improve next to some real veteran plays, and not only some veteran voices.
We didn't have good enough veterans, with young guys fighting a bit more for their playing time,... and here's the problem now.

[HMFFL]

According to Shams Charania of The Athletic, "Atlanta has so far sought a high first-round, lottery-level pick" if they were to move John Collins. 

Nothing is imminent, to be clear. From what we can gather, the Hawks are doing their due diligence because of Collins' contract demands -- he turned down an extension for over $90M and the Hawks aren't comfortable offering him a max deal as Sam Amick of The Athletic reported last week. Collins' fantasy managers shouldn't panic, as his value would likely be safe in a trade. It could even trend up if he ends up with more center minutes, as his per-minute production spikes when he moves from the four to five. 

SOURCE: The Athletic



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[Jamaaliver]

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[Jamaaliver]

J Collins is going to get come really strong, unattractive contract offers next summer in RFA.

If we don't trade him, we're gonna have to pay dearly just to keep him around.

Updated 2021 NBA Free-Agency Big Board

1. Kawhi Leonard (Player Option)
2. Jrue Holiday
3. Chris Paul (Player Option)

4. John Collins (Restricted)



Projected Wins Above Replacement Through 2024: 13.5

The Atlanta Hawks have slipped quite a bit in recent weeks, though FiveThirtyEight's projections still give them a solid shot at the postseason. If they get there, John Collins will be one of the biggest reasons.

This season, Atlanta is plus-3.4 points per 100 possessions with him on the floor and minus-9.6 with him off. In just 31.7 minutes per game, he's averaging 18.1 points, 7.6 rebounds, 1.4 threes (with a 41.1 three-point percentage) and 1.0 blocks.

On paper, he looks like a nearly ideal playmaking 5 for the modern NBA. Playing him there full-time could be problematic for whatever defense he lands with, though.

On the season, the Hawks are giving up points in droves when Collins plays without Clint Capela. He has the athleticism to positively affect a defense, but he's slightly undersized (if you want him to be a center) and still gets caught out of position from time to time.

Regardless of position, though, the 23-year-old has provided more than enough raw production over his first four seasons to warrant interest from all over the league this summer.

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