Lauri Markkanen Discussion Thread

[Stratmaster]

To me, the real question is what is Lauri's self-awareness level.

Right now, he has earned about a 12 mil per season contract. He is still young, so that could go a little higher...except...he also hasn't been able to stay on the court. His likely long term role is as a 5th starter/spacer or as a first big off the bench.

If he realizes this, and takes the 12 mil per season, I absolutely want him on this team in one of those 2 roles. If he doesn't realize this, let someone else be the team to overpay him.

[DJhitek]

I’d actually be hesitant to pay him 14 million a year. I just don’t think he impacts winning all that much and his shooting just isn’t good enough to justify his flaws.

I just spent some time looking at all of the good teams and how they pay. You are probably right.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/contracts/PHI.html
https://www.basketball-reference.com/contracts/BRK.html
https://www.basketball-reference.com/contracts/BOS.html
https://www.basketball-reference.com/contracts/UTA.html
https://www.basketball-reference.com/contracts/LAL.html
https://www.basketball-reference.com/contracts/LAC.html

He is probably more in the 10-12m per year range for a contender.

We both know he values himself at a higher cost, but yeah, I said it on draft night, if he isn’t a generational shooter and scorer that he was going to be a below average player. Bulls are in a tough spot if they don’t just move on from him during the deadline.

[Leslie Forman]

For the good teams in this league, that kind of gravity from a non-superstar is worth serious money.

What gravity? He does nothing off the ball. Watch how much someone like a prime Korver/Redick moves off the ball. Lauri does absolutely none of that. He just stands around and waits…and then chucks up a shot without even thinking of passing to someone else unless he doesn't have a good look.

There's another trait Markkanen has that will make him very attractive to teams: he never takes bad shots.

Great. He can be Keith Bogans for a contender then.

Of course, he can't even do that, since he plays absolutely no defense. Imagine him going up against the Lakers in a playoff series. It'd be a crime against humanity. They'd just be spamming screens to get him stuck on LeBron or AD or Schroder over and over and over and over and over and over again.

[Kukoc-Lauri]

For the good teams in this league, that kind of gravity from a non-superstar is worth serious money.

What gravity? He does nothing off the ball. Watch how much someone like a prime Korver/Redick moves off the ball. Lauri does absolutely none of that. He just stands around and waits…and then chucks up a shot without even thinking of passing to someone else unless he doesn't have a good look.

There's another trait Markkanen has that will make him very attractive to teams: he never takes bad shots.

Great. He can be Keith Bogans for a contender then.

Of course, he can't even do that, since he plays absolutely no defense. Imagine him going up against the Lakers in a playoff series. It'd be a crime against humanity. They'd just be spamming screens to get him stuck on LeBron or AD or Schroder over and over and over and over and over and over again.

interesting how Carter is labeled as some defensive anchor and Young defensive stopper when Lauri guarded Randle and Embiid before with lot of more success. He showed that he could stay with guards and bothers powerforwards shooting with his lenght. Sure he never gonna be defensive stoper but he is not negattive value on defense either. He moves a lot off ball, and set him self for good pass but problem with that, is Bulls guards miss him 4 or 5 times on open layups or open three every game. He would become 6 ppg better scorer if he is playing with good pointguard.

[ZOMG]

For the good teams in this league, that kind of gravity from a non-superstar is worth serious money.

What gravity? He does nothing off the ball. Watch how much someone like a prime Korver/Redick moves off the ball. Lauri does absolutely none of that. He just stands around and waits…and then chucks up a shot without even thinking of passing to someone else unless he doesn't have a good look.

There's another trait Markkanen has that will make him very attractive to teams: he never takes bad shots.

Great. He can be Keith Bogans for a contender then.

Of course, he can't even do that, since he plays absolutely no defense. Imagine him going up against the Lakers in a playoff series. It'd be a crime against humanity. They'd just be spamming screens to get him stuck on LeBron or AD or Schroder over and over and over and over and over and over again.

Wow. Just wow.

[coldfish]

To me, the real question is what is Lauri's self-awareness level.

Right now, he has earned about a 12 mil per season contract. He is still young, so that could go a little higher...except...he also hasn't been able to stay on the court. His likely long term role is as a 5th starter/spacer or as a first big off the bench.

If he realizes this, and takes the 12 mil per season, I absolutely want him on this team in one of those 2 roles. If he doesn't realize this, let someone else be the team to overpay him.

IMO, its really low and that has hindered his development. Whenever I read stuff that seems to come from the people around him, they have a pretty warped view of who he is as a player and what he should be. The general vision is of this SF type ball handler who happens to be 7 feet.

I still think that Lauri could be a pretty high level player. He has definitely played better this year. He just has to add something to round out his game. He doesn't have to be a superstar but 1 dimensional players just are not that valuable to top level teams.

[nitetrain8603]

Lauri has ability, but it looks like most people here realize that he won't reach his potential. Can he guard decently? Yes. Can he score? Yes. Is he worth what he's asking for or near it? No. Will he help a contender as more than a solid role player? No.

[MrSparkle]

Games Lauri played: 5-9

5 wins all came against sub-500 teams: Wizards, Mavs, Rockets, Hornets, Knicks

Some of the losses were really ugly (2 debut games, Celtics). Few close ones too, sure.

Bulls without Lauri: 8-7

Including very close losses to LAC, LAL, PHI and good wins against Pacers, Pelicans, Blazers, Kings. Not to mention many of these were also without Carter and Otto.

Don't get me wrong- the Bulls are still a mediocre team. But you have got to be out of your mind if you've actually been watching this team, and think that Lauri makes the Bulls better. They are clearly more competitive without him. We play faster, defend better, crash the glass better and move the ball faster.

Lauri doesn't belong in the top-8 rotation. That's my 2c. Much better starting small with Temple or even Valentine at SF. That's not a credit to those two as much as a de-merit for Pat at SF and Lauri at PF.

He's a 9th man for this roster (after Thad, Temple/Valentine, Sato). Flame away. I reckon he could be a 5th or 6th man in the most ideal situation. Thad's work at C looks like HOF-ish in comparison.

[Kukoc-Lauri]

Haters gonna hate. My prediction. Bulls will lowball him again 12-14 salary, he would recieved following offers Spurs,Knicks,Mavs,Hornets,Pelicans. Contenders dont have money for him, he will end up in Spurs 4/64 16 per year or Mavs 3/60. Knicks would offer most money but he will choose best situation for his progress. He will stay healthy, play with good pg and structure and make Bulls regret not resigning him. Bulls on other hand would maxed Collins who he will end up being Boozer like, productive with bad defense but overpaid or with Holmes/Barton/Oubre who wont be difference makers and will fadde away fairly quick after non onspiring stint with Bulls.

[MrSparkle]

Haters gonna hate. My prediction. Bulls will lowball him again 12-14 salary, he would recieved following offers Spurs,Knicks,Mavs,Hornets,Pelicans. Contenders dont have money for him, he will end up in Spurs 4/64 16 per year or Mavs 3/60. Knicks would offer most money but he will choose best situation for his progress. He will stay healthy, play with good pg and structure and make Bulls regret not resigning him. Bulls on other hand would maxed Collins who he will end up being Boozer like, productive with bad defense but overpaid or with Holmes/Barton/Oubre who wont be difference makers and will fadde away fairly quick after non onspiring stint with Bulls.

And what do the Spurs, Knicks, Pelicans or Hornets have to lose? I actually agree - he'd probably be a good pickup for them. They have a lot of muscle, defenders, rebounders and creators around their roster, and lack spacing.

That doesn't mean we have to overpay to keep a bad fit.

I lean towards not offering the max for Collins, but I would monitor his market. He had a big step back this year, but there are some chemistry and injury issues on the Hawks - otherwise, his career stats absolutely dwarf Lauri's. I haven't followed ATL since Bogdanovic's injury, to really know what's going on. Lauri's 14-game sample of super hot TS is 65%, but Collins CAREER TS is 63 (compared to Lauri's career 56%).

[Stratmaster]

To me, the real question is what is Lauri's self-awareness level.

Right now, he has earned about a 12 mil per season contract. He is still young, so that could go a little higher...except...he also hasn't been able to stay on the court. His likely long term role is as a 5th starter/spacer or as a first big off the bench.

If he realizes this, and takes the 12 mil per season, I absolutely want him on this team in one of those 2 roles. If he doesn't realize this, let someone else be the team to overpay him.

IMO, its really low and that has hindered his development. Whenever I read stuff that seems to come from the people around him, they have a pretty warped view of who he is as a player and what he should be. The general vision is of this SF type ball handler who happens to be 7 feet.

I still think that Lauri could be a pretty high level player. He has definitely played better this year. He just has to add something to round out his game. He doesn't have to be a superstar but 1 dimensional players just are not that valuable to top level teams.

Yeah I don't think he has realized that what was considered special in his country is your average guy fighting for a roster spot in the NBA.

I just haven't seen that desire and commitment to improvement I see in Lavine and other players. Maybe it all came easy until he became a pro because of his size?

And I may be way off base. Obviously I don't know his real work ethic. He may just not express it. But I have yet to see him add anything really new to his game other than the drag step which the opposition has already figured out.

I haven't seen any change in his defensive technique, passing approach, handles. He seems like the exact same player he was at 19 years old despite having the worlds best coaches and trainers at his disposal.

Sent from my SM-G965U using RealGM mobile app

[sco]

To me, the real question is what is Lauri's self-awareness level.

Right now, he has earned about a 12 mil per season contract. He is still young, so that could go a little higher...except...he also hasn't been able to stay on the court. His likely long term role is as a 5th starter/spacer or as a first big off the bench.

If he realizes this, and takes the 12 mil per season, I absolutely want him on this team in one of those 2 roles. If he doesn't realize this, let someone else be the team to overpay him.

IMO, its really low and that has hindered his development. Whenever I read stuff that seems to come from the people around him, they have a pretty warped view of who he is as a player and what he should be. The general vision is of this SF type ball handler who happens to be 7 feet.

I still think that Lauri could be a pretty high level player. He has definitely played better this year. He just has to add something to round out his game. He doesn't have to be a superstar but 1 dimensional players just are not that valuable to top level teams.

Yeah I don't think he has realized that what was considered special in his country is your average guy fighting for a roster spot in the NBA.

I just haven't seen that desire and commitment to improvement I see in Lavine and other players. Maybe it all came easy until he became a pro because of his size?

And I may be way off base. Obviously I don't know his real work ethic. He may just not express it. But I have yet to see him add anything really new to his game other than the drag step which the opposition has already figured out.

I haven't seen any change in his defensive technique, passing approach, handles. He seems like the exact same player he was at 19 years old despite having the worlds best coaches and trainers at his disposal.

Sent from my SM-G965U using RealGM mobile app

IDK, I've seen real improvement from Lauri on both ends this season. Last season he was so passive. I see him looking for shots this year and moving his feet and getting his arm up on defense. If healthy, I could easily see him being worth $20M/yr, but that's the thing. He just can't stay on the floor. I agree with a post a saw earlier that his nickname should be Lauri "When he gets back" Markkanen.

Look at how well Porter's deal worked out...same deal with Lauri. People comment on Otto's supposedly chronic hip issue, he'd be lucky to play enough for it to actually bother him...it's everything else with that dude. He and Lauri are like those middle school girls who keep ditching class to go smoke.

[CaPiTanAK]

Haters gonna hate. My prediction. Bulls will lowball him again 12-14 salary, he would recieved following offers Spurs,Knicks,Mavs,Hornets,Pelicans. Contenders dont have money for him, he will end up in Spurs 4/64 16 per year or Mavs 3/60. Knicks would offer most money but he will choose best situation for his progress. He will stay healthy, play with good pg and structure and make Bulls regret not resigning him. Bulls on other hand would maxed Collins who he will end up being Boozer like, productive with bad defense but overpaid or with Holmes/Barton/Oubre who wont be difference makers and will fadde away fairly quick after non onspiring stint with Bulls.

AK is going to match 4/64 for sure.

Lauri has improved his game this year. Honestly, I like him more than WCJ at this point.

Lauri in his prime can be a Kukoc type of player, a high ended role player on a championship contender.

[Pentele]

Lauri doesn't belong in the top-8 rotation. That's my 2c.

Yeah, there is no reason to think that his current play warrants a place in the playing rotation. 22,6p/36 with 65.4%TS. What a bum!

Lauri definitely has his flaws but you guys realize that these takes are getting absolutely ridiculous? Maybe not even Lavine has received that much unwarranted downplaying that is evidenced by the post above. Is this, again, a competition over who has "the most stern" position concerning a player in the team? It is one thing to say that the guy is injury prone and should not be paid big money, but it is quite another to ignore the reality completely. I guess FreePaulZipser was right; it is probably best just to sit back and marvel the humanity.

[Kukoc-Lauri]

Haters gonna hate. My prediction. Bulls will lowball him again 12-14 salary, he would recieved following offers Spurs,Knicks,Mavs,Hornets,Pelicans. Contenders dont have money for him, he will end up in Spurs 4/64 16 per year or Mavs 3/60. Knicks would offer most money but he will choose best situation for his progress. He will stay healthy, play with good pg and structure and make Bulls regret not resigning him. Bulls on other hand would maxed Collins who he will end up being Boozer like, productive with bad defense but overpaid or with Holmes/Barton/Oubre who wont be difference makers and will fadde away fairly quick after non onspiring stint with Bulls.

AK is going to match 4/64 for sure.

Lauri has improved his game this year. Honestly, I like him more than WCJ at this point.

Lauri in his prime can be a Kukoc type of player, a high ended role player on a championship contender.

I think Lauri can be very good but he is not half a player Toni was. Level of dissrespect guys like Pippen and Kukoc have today is amazing. Guys who sacrifaced stats for benefit of the team, winning 90% of games and titles every year to be downplayed by some because stats. Pippen would have 90% of stats Giannis have today with better shooting and people putting Zach as better scorer. Toni is only player in basketball history with three threpheats 3 euroleagues in row as mvp, 3 fiba competitions european championships 2x, world championship as mvp along with silver medal in olympics and three pheat with Bulls as 6 man of the year. Guys like Lavine and Lauri as talented as they are cannot be mentioned in the same sentence as those players. There are levels in this game.

[PaKii94]

Lauri doesn't belong in the top-8 rotation. That's my 2c.

Yeah, there is no reason to think that his current play warrants a place in the playing rotation. 22,6p/36 with 65.4%TS. What a bum!

Lauri definitely has his flaws but you guys realize that these takes are getting absolutely ridiculous? Maybe not even Lavine has received that much unwarranted downplaying that is evidenced by the post above. Is this, again, a competion over who has "the most stern" position concerning a player in the team? It is one thing to say that the guy is injury prone and should not be paid big money, but it is quite another to go ignore the reality completely. I guess FreePaulZipser was right; it is probably best just to sit back and marvel the humanity.

Somehow the bulls board hot takes have reached the opposite end of the spectrum.

[Hugi Mancura]

Haters gonna hate. My prediction. Bulls will lowball him again 12-14 salary, he would recieved following offers Spurs,Knicks,Mavs,Hornets,Pelicans. Contenders dont have money for him, he will end up in Spurs 4/64 16 per year or Mavs 3/60. Knicks would offer most money but he will choose best situation for his progress. He will stay healthy, play with good pg and structure and make Bulls regret not resigning him. Bulls on other hand would maxed Collins who he will end up being Boozer like, productive with bad defense but overpaid or with Holmes/Barton/Oubre who wont be difference makers and will fadde away fairly quick after non onspiring stint with Bulls.

And what do the Spurs, Knicks, Pelicans or Hornets have to lose? I actually agree - he'd probably be a good pickup for them. They have a lot of muscle, defenders, rebounders and creators around their roster, and lack spacing.

That doesn't mean we have to overpay to keep a bad fit.

I lean towards not offering the max for Collins, but I would monitor his market. He had a big step back this year, but there are some chemistry and injury issues on the Hawks - otherwise, his career stats absolutely dwarf Lauri's. I haven't followed ATL since Bogdanovic's injury, to really know what's going on. Lauri's 14-game sample of super hot TS is 65%, but Collins CAREER TS is 63 (compared to Lauri's career 56%).

You are comparing a player who mainly dunks and other one is 3 point shooter. Top 10 in shooting % in this year (and every year) are all centers, which I think Collins is or at least is best used as one.

But mostly all the things Bulls fans hate about Lauri exists with Collins too.
- bad defensive rebounder (Collins takes less defensive rebounds than Lauri)
- doesn't create his own shot (Both have 77% of their fg's assisted)
- can't defend the rim and isn't a good defender. Other teams players are shooting with higher% against Collins than they vs Lauri, but difference is minimal

He has played 20 more games than Lauri in these 4 seasons, but even he haven't yet seen healthy season. He is more athletic though, so if seeing dunks is only that matters maybe then he is worth the max. But paying Collins 27M and not paying Lauri 17M just seems money spend badly. And to be honest, because Lauri isn't really a paint player while Collins is, and Lauri is better floor spacer than Collins I really think he would fit better with Lavine. Also getting Collins you really have to think do you play him as center or as PF, which means maybe you have to get rid of WCJ too.

So if people doesn't want to see Lauri, I don't believe they want to see Collins either.

[MrSparkle]

Haters gonna hate. My prediction. Bulls will lowball him again 12-14 salary, he would recieved following offers Spurs,Knicks,Mavs,Hornets,Pelicans. Contenders dont have money for him, he will end up in Spurs 4/64 16 per year or Mavs 3/60. Knicks would offer most money but he will choose best situation for his progress. He will stay healthy, play with good pg and structure and make Bulls regret not resigning him. Bulls on other hand would maxed Collins who he will end up being Boozer like, productive with bad defense but overpaid or with Holmes/Barton/Oubre who wont be difference makers and will fadde away fairly quick after non onspiring stint with Bulls.

And what do the Spurs, Knicks, Pelicans or Hornets have to lose? I actually agree - he'd probably be a good pickup for them. They have a lot of muscle, defenders, rebounders and creators around their roster, and lack spacing.

That doesn't mean we have to overpay to keep a bad fit.

I lean towards not offering the max for Collins, but I would monitor his market. He had a big step back this year, but there are some chemistry and injury issues on the Hawks - otherwise, his career stats absolutely dwarf Lauri's. I haven't followed ATL since Bogdanovic's injury, to really know what's going on. Lauri's 14-game sample of super hot TS is 65%, but Collins CAREER TS is 63% (compared to Lauri's career 56%).

You are comparing a player who mainly dunks and other one is 3 point shooter. Top 10 in shooting % in this year (and every year) are all centers, which I think Collins is or at least is best used as one.

But mostly all the things Bulls fans hate about Lauri exists with Collins too.
- bad defensive rebounder (Collins takes less defensive rebounds than Lauri)
- doesn't create his own shot (Both have 77% of their fg's assisted)
- can't defend the rim and isn't a good defender. Other teams players are shooting with higher% against Collins than they vs Lauri, but difference is minimal

He has played 20 more games than Lauri in these 4 seasons, but even he haven't yet seen healthy season. He is more athletic though, so if seeing dunks is only that matters maybe then he is worth the max. But paying Collins 27M and not paying Lauri 17M just seems money spend badly. And to be honest, because Lauri isn't really a paint player while Collins is, and Lauri is better floor spacer than Collins I really think he would fit better with Lavine. Also getting Collins you really have to think do you play him as center or as PF, which means maybe you have to get rid of WCJ too.

So if people doesn't want to see Lauri, I don't believe they want to see Collins either.

That's fair. Collins impressed me the first few years I saw him; I've admittedly not watched much of him this year, and numbers seem down across the board, and yes, he's been on/off injured.

I'm totally OK with avoiding any expensive PFs who can't rebound or defend well.

But if we want to be upfront and fair - there is no statistical evidence that Lauri is better than Collins in any category "besides athleticism and dunks." It's preposterous. Nevermind the prior 3 years where Collins absolutely trumped him in every category, but this year as well: Collins is still outperforming him in larger sample size, in almost every category except TS which is hardly a big difference:

https://stathead.com/basketball/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1=markkla01&p1yrfrom=2021&player_id2=collijo01&p2yrfrom=2021

Lauri played his best season yet in 14 games, Collins is struggling the most since his rookie year, and he's still got better stats. His FT% and 3P% are actually better too.

Now if you compare prior 3 seasons, it's not even a conversation. Collins' Adv. Stats were way better, including FT/3P/TS/REB/WS/BLK/AS.

And again, I'm not so sure Collins gets the max. Furthermore, I'm not sure he and Lauri are going to be that far apart on dollars. But if you're asking me whether I'd pay an extra $10m a year for a guy who better projects to be an all-star, then the answer is yes. I wouldn't rather have Sato than Zach , just because he's $10m cheaper.

But I'm not hawking Hawks games. Is his D and rebounding that bad? I feel it's peculiar that Collin's numbers took a dive ever since space-killer and board-crasher Capella joined the squad. CC's got a whopping 26% rebound rate, and Collins' DRB dropped 6% since last season. I would get Collins to play C, like Thad.

[WindyCityBorn]

Jerry has been very clear that he won't pay the tax unless the team is already top 4. The Lux tax level is 133m for the NBA which means that the Bulls have to build a title contender with 133m. Its obviously very hard.

You basically have room for two max slots, one highly paid non max and then the roster has to be filled out with rookie scale and MLE types. Can Lauri be that 3rd banana? Based on what we have seen, he kind of has the potential but he isn't there yet and he is injured frequently. Most concerning is that he seems to have little interest in being anything other than a 1 dimensional player. We have seen no improvement in his passing or rebounding. His defensive improvement has been marginal. He is basically just a shooter.

I really don't think you can build a contender with Lauri making $20m or more on the roster. He would be a serious roadblock unless he really rounds out his game.

You seriously overestimate the need to have that "3rd banana" be some borderline All Star type with a set of high end skills in several areas. That's what you expect from the max guy, and there's a lot of max guys who are pretty one-dimensional when you really get down to it.

As I've always said, it's a specialists's league. From his 2nd contract on, Markkanen will be paid to put the ball into the basket. He's not going to be paid for rebounding (which, by the way, he's perfectly adequate at for his role/position in the modern NBA) or rim protection. His ability to defend 1-on-1 on the perimeter is a very nice luxury to have in a league where harrassing 3pt shooters is more and more important, but again... even that's not something that will make or break him.

Over the time Lauri's been in the league, the game has moved EVEN MORE into the direction of his specific skills. A 7ft guy who's a match up nightmare, doesn't need the ball that much, scores efficiently - and most importantly, can get his shot off from the perimeter any time he wants to? I guarantee teams will want to take a chance on him even with his slightly worrying injury history.

Lauri plays like he is 6’7”. He rarely takes advantage of any mismatch he gets.

[WindyCityBorn]

Haters gonna hate. My prediction. Bulls will lowball him again 12-14 salary, he would recieved following offers Spurs,Knicks,Mavs,Hornets,Pelicans. Contenders dont have money for him, he will end up in Spurs 4/64 16 per year or Mavs 3/60. Knicks would offer most money but he will choose best situation for his progress. He will stay healthy, play with good pg and structure and make Bulls regret not resigning him. Bulls on other hand would maxed Collins who he will end up being Boozer like, productive with bad defense but overpaid or with Holmes/Barton/Oubre who wont be difference makers and will fadde away fairly quick after non onspiring stint with Bulls.

And what do the Spurs, Knicks, Pelicans or Hornets have to lose? I actually agree - he'd probably be a good pickup for them. They have a lot of muscle, defenders, rebounders and creators around their roster, and lack spacing.

That doesn't mean we have to overpay to keep a bad fit.

I lean towards not offering the max for Collins, but I would monitor his market. He had a big step back this year, but there are some chemistry and injury issues on the Hawks - otherwise, his career stats absolutely dwarf Lauri's. I haven't followed ATL since Bogdanovic's injury, to really know what's going on. Lauri's 14-game sample of super hot TS is 65%, but Collins CAREER TS is 63 (compared to Lauri's career 56%).

You are comparing a player who mainly dunks and other one is 3 point shooter. Top 10 in shooting % in this year (and every year) are all centers, which I think Collins is or at least is best used as one.

But mostly all the things Bulls fans hate about Lauri exists with Collins too.
- bad defensive rebounder (Collins takes less defensive rebounds than Lauri)
- doesn't create his own shot (Both have 77% of their fg's assisted)
- can't defend the rim and isn't a good defender. Other teams players are shooting with higher% against Collins than they vs Lauri, but difference is minimal

He has played 20 more games than Lauri in these 4 seasons, but even he haven't yet seen healthy season. He is more athletic though, so if seeing dunks is only that matters maybe then he is worth the max. But paying Collins 27M and not paying Lauri 17M just seems money spend badly. And to be honest, because Lauri isn't really a paint player while Collins is, and Lauri is better floor spacer than Collins I really think he would fit better with Lavine. Also getting Collins you really have to think do you play him as center or as PF, which means maybe you have to get rid of WCJ too.

So if people doesn't want to see Lauri, I don't believe they want to see Collins either.

I don’t want Collins. Especially for a max.