The Lebron Thread | 2021 (Pt. 2)

[nzahir]

I hate the current NBA. LeBron gets treated like an undrafted rookie by the refs while the likes of Trae Young gets 10 free throws a game. Once LeBron retires my NBA fandom does too.

Nba is going to take a big ratings hit once he retires

I barely even watch other teams anymore besides some highlights or the very end of games b/c of how poor the officiating is and b/c the league thinks it is okay to handicap defenses to the extreme

[Greyhound]

I hate the current NBA. LeBron gets treated like an undrafted rookie by the refs while the likes of Trae Young gets 10 free throws a game. Once LeBron retires my NBA fandom does too.

It's so dumb if you see the amount of contact he's getting and Trae and other players get a whiff of contact and they immediately get 2 free throws. It has gotten to the point 3 point shooters are more protected than paint players. It's atrocious.

He flopped once in a game a couple weeks ago and the NBA literally issued him a warning for it. Other dudes flop 5+ times a game and the league rewards them with red carpets to the free throw line. It’s such a joke.

The problem is that LeBron flopped on defense (I guess).

Flopping on defense is a no no in Silver’s NBA. Offensive flops (on the other hand)...

The powers that be are all for that. They don’t even refer to them as flops. They give them flowery descriptions like flails, embellishments, acting jobs and sells.

You won’t hear these constant flops be called what they are because the word flop has become taboo verbiage in NBA circles.

Meanwhile all body contact against LeBron goes uncalled in the paint.

Young, Embiid, Harden and others get all types of calls. If they miss a shot or have a turnover, instant call to protect that stat line occurs. With LeBron they are now making calls the moment they see him with momentum, or in an advantageous position for a score or assist. Zero call (most nights) if he is bumped or smacked resulting in a miss or turnover.

Watch carefully, they are easy to spot.

Is this inept officiating, or an attempt at statistical manipulation? I don’t know.
What I do know is that it’s a complete and utter joke at this point.

[McBubbles]

I hate the current NBA. LeBron gets treated like an undrafted rookie by the refs while the likes of Trae Young gets 10 free throws a game. Once LeBron retires my NBA fandom does too.

Nba is going to take a big ratings hit once he retires

I barely even watch other teams anymore besides some highlights or the very end of games b/c of how poor the officiating is and b/c the league thinks it is okay to handicap defenses to the extreme

Yeaaaah I think the NBA powers that be miscalculated. People don't necessarily want to see more offence at any cost, they want to see more impressive offence. They want to see Kobe fading away with 2 people in his face, Steph crossing up 3 players before pulling up from three, Lebron completely eradicating a rim protector, etc. Nobody wants to **** see players flop and get endless trips to the free throw lines. Not "exaggerate contact" mind you, I believe that's fine, but straight up flops. I get that free throws extend the game and an extended game = more ad time, but damn.

And as much as i'd like to say that nobody wants to see moving screens, carrying, travels etc people don't care when it benefits them, so strict enforcement on those isn't coming anytime soon i'm afraid.

[dcstanley]

Read on Twitter

Also mentioned that they've made calls about some wing players to see if there’s shooting out there.

[Greyhound]

I hate the current NBA. LeBron gets treated like an undrafted rookie by the refs while the likes of Trae Young gets 10 free throws a game. Once LeBron retires my NBA fandom does too.

Nba is going to take a big ratings hit once he retires

I barely even watch other teams anymore besides some highlights or the very end of games b/c of how poor the officiating is and b/c the league thinks it is okay to handicap defenses to the extreme

Yeaaaah I think the NBA powers that be miscalculated. People don't necessarily want to see more offence at any cost, they want to see more impressive offence. They want to see Kobe fading away with 2 people in his face, Steph crossing up 3 players before pulling up from three, Lebron completely eradicating a rim protector, etc. Nobody wants to **** see players flop and get endless trips to the free throw lines. Not "exaggerate contact" mind you, I believe that's fine, but straight up flops. I get that free throws extend the game and an extended game = more ad time, but damn.

And as much as i'd like to say that nobody wants to see moving screens, carrying, travels etc people don't care when it benefits them, so strict enforcement on those isn't coming anytime soon i'm afraid.

I would argue that those who have mastered the ability to “exaggerate contact” are some of the worst floppers.

Creating minor contact then flailing and contorting your body (while flinging the ball into the stands) is not even a basketball play.

It’s the type of gaming of the officials that many of us are referring to.

Straight up flops are bad, but I would argue that the wide spread acceptance of “contact exaggeration” (for the sole purpose of drawing fouls) has done more damage to the integrity of the sport.

There is nothing fine about that, in my opinion.

[MartinToVaught]

I hate the current NBA. LeBron gets treated like an undrafted rookie by the refs while the likes of Trae Young gets 10 free throws a game. Once LeBron retires my NBA fandom does too.

Nba is going to take a big ratings hit once he retires

I barely even watch other teams anymore besides some highlights or the very end of games b/c of how poor the officiating is and b/c the league thinks it is okay to handicap defenses to the extreme

Yeaaaah I think the NBA powers that be miscalculated. People don't necessarily want to see more offence at any cost, they want to see more impressive offence. They want to see Kobe fading away with 2 people in his face, Steph crossing up 3 players before pulling up from three, Lebron completely eradicating a rim protector, etc. Nobody wants to **** see players flop and get endless trips to the free throw lines. Not "exaggerate contact" mind you, I believe that's fine, but straight up flops. I get that free throws extend the game and an extended game = more ad time, but damn.

On a similar note about offense... the three-point chucking is almost as unwatchable as the flopping. I was shocked when I checked the stats and saw that the Clippers are only 18th in team three point attempts per game, because they've felt very much like a three-point shooting team this year. There are teams averaging more than 40 three point attempts per game! And it doesn't seem to matter whether or not they're going in. Houston is 3rd in three-point attempts per game and 28th in 3PT%. OKC is 7th in attempts per game and 27th in 3PT%.

Between the chucking and flopping, the level of basketball is getting more brutal by the year. It's mind-boggling how anyone can enjoy this and think it's a good product.

[McBubbles]

Nba is going to take a big ratings hit once he retires

I barely even watch other teams anymore besides some highlights or the very end of games b/c of how poor the officiating is and b/c the league thinks it is okay to handicap defenses to the extreme

Yeaaaah I think the NBA powers that be miscalculated. People don't necessarily want to see more offence at any cost, they want to see more impressive offence. They want to see Kobe fading away with 2 people in his face, Steph crossing up 3 players before pulling up from three, Lebron completely eradicating a rim protector, etc. Nobody wants to **** see players flop and get endless trips to the free throw lines. Not "exaggerate contact" mind you, I believe that's fine, but straight up flops. I get that free throws extend the game and an extended game = more ad time, but damn.

And as much as i'd like to say that nobody wants to see moving screens, carrying, travels etc people don't care when it benefits them, so strict enforcement on those isn't coming anytime soon i'm afraid.

I would argue that those who have mastered the ability to “exaggerate contact” are some of the worst floppers.

Creating minor contact then flailing and contorting your body (while flinging the ball into the stands) is not even a basketball play.

It’s the type of gaming of the officials that many of us are referring to.

Straight up flops are bad, but I would argue that the wide spread acceptance of “contact exaggeration” (for the sole purpose of drawing fouls) has done more damage to the integrity of the sport.

There is nothing fine about that, in my opinion.

Oh damn I don't mean that much exaggeration haha, I mean getting hit in the head on a drive and then saying "ow" and moving your head to indicate you got fouled, or falling over when someone charges into you when you could have stayed afloat if you just put one of your legs behind you for balance. Just indicators of this person fouled me.

Not that bull rip through nonsense, who the **** ever thought that was an acceptable play? Why was that allowed for years? Jesus.

[McBubbles]

Nba is going to take a big ratings hit once he retires

I barely even watch other teams anymore besides some highlights or the very end of games b/c of how poor the officiating is and b/c the league thinks it is okay to handicap defenses to the extreme

Yeaaaah I think the NBA powers that be miscalculated. People don't necessarily want to see more offence at any cost, they want to see more impressive offence. They want to see Kobe fading away with 2 people in his face, Steph crossing up 3 players before pulling up from three, Lebron completely eradicating a rim protector, etc. Nobody wants to **** see players flop and get endless trips to the free throw lines. Not "exaggerate contact" mind you, I believe that's fine, but straight up flops. I get that free throws extend the game and an extended game = more ad time, but damn.

On a similar note about offense... the three-point chucking is almost as unwatchable as the flopping. I was shocked when I checked the stats and saw that the Clippers are only 18th in team three point attempts per game, because they've felt very much like a three-point shooting team this year. There are teams averaging more than 40 three point attempts per game! And it doesn't seem to matter whether or not they're going in. Houston is 3rd in three-point attempts per game and 28th in 3PT%. OKC is 7th in attempts per game and 27th in 3PT%.

Between the chucking and flopping, the level of basketball is getting more brutal by the year. It's mind-boggling how anyone can enjoy this and think it's a good product.

I think NBA offence and probably the product in general was perfect from about 2008-2016, I.E when the league had figured out how to properly officiate post 05 rule changes, when defences figured out how to defend post 05 rule changes and when the value of spacing had been realized but BEFORE the pace was artificially inflated with a shot clock decrease and people started spamming the 3 pointer. At least that's my incredibly subjective observation of what the league was like at the time, didn't even watch from 08-10 at the time lol.

Also, I don't think the league realizes that having more stars isn't necessarily a good thing. When only 10 players are averaging 20PPG or more you know who the top dogs are (offensively anyway), but when you have 40 players averaging 20PPG then it doesn't mean anything. Same with triple doubles.

[letskissbro]

LA has fallen to 17th on offense. Just embarrassing for a LeBron led team that supposedly added two of last year's best bench players. At some point you gotta put it on the coaching staff. This team doesn't even run the few sets that they had last season anymore. It's like playground basketball. Guys don't even want to spot up, they just dribble drive into traffic off a kick out and clog the interior for no reason when they don't have the ball.

On the bright side they've maintained their elite defensive numbers without AD and remain 2 points ahead of the Jazz. I was fully expecting AD to unfairly get full credit for their defense with an undeserved 1st team but with him being out a hilarious development to look forward to is LA becoming possible the first(?) #1 defense to not get an all-defensive nod. They should probably be in the running for three 2nd teams but LeBron's defensive rep was killed by a bunch of redditors three years ago and Caruso is like the direct antithesis of what an elite defender should look like.

[homecourtloss]

LA has fallen to 17th on offense. Just embarrassing for a LeBron led team that supposedly added two of last year's best bench players. At some point you gotta put it on the coaching staff. This team doesn't even run the few sets that they had last season anymore. It's like playground basketball. Guys don't even want to spot up, they just dribble drive into traffic off a kick out and clog the interior for no reason when they don't have the ball.

On the bright side they've maintained their elite defensive numbers without AD and remain 2 points ahead of the Jazz. I was fully expecting AD to unfairly get full credit for their defense with an undeserved 1st team but with him being out a hilarious development to look forward to is LA becoming possible the first(?) #1 defense to not get an all-defensive nod. They should probably be in the running for three 2nd teams but LeBron's defensive rep was killed by a bunch of redditors three years ago and Caruso is like the direct antithesis of what an elite defender should look like.

The bolded is quite true and the Lakers have been bottom 3 all year for spot up attempts which is terrible.

Meanwhile, after three quarters, the Nets are handling the Clippers without Durant while Kawhi and PG13 are playing well AND while the Nets are bricking their threes. It’s time to realize that the Nets will be hard as hell to best in a best of 7 series. Harden’s played a hell of a game tonight.

[Dupp]

You know who likes to spot up? Danny green.

[nzahir]

LA has fallen to 17th on offense. Just embarrassing for a LeBron led team that supposedly added two of last year's best bench players. At some point you gotta put it on the coaching staff. This team doesn't even run the few sets that they had last season anymore. It's like playground basketball. Guys don't even want to spot up, they just dribble drive into traffic off a kick out and clog the interior for no reason when they don't have the ball.

On the bright side they've maintained their elite defensive numbers without AD and remain 2 points ahead of the Jazz. I was fully expecting AD to unfairly get full credit for their defense with an undeserved 1st team but with him being out a hilarious development to look forward to is LA becoming possible the first(?) #1 defense to not get an all-defensive nod. They should probably be in the running for three 2nd teams but LeBron's defensive rep was killed by a bunch of redditors three years ago and Caruso is like the direct antithesis of what an elite defender should look like.

The bolded is quite true and the Lakers have been bottom 3 all year for spot up attempts which is terrible.

Meanwhile, after three quarters, the Nets are handling the Clippers without Durant while Kawhi and PG13 are playing well AND while the Nets are bricking their threes. It’s time to realize that the Nets will be hard as hell to best in a best of 7 series. Harden’s played a hell of a game tonight.

This team isn't going to beat the Nets as constructed

Not by being a bottom 4 shooting team

Need to add at least a legit shooting threat

Positive assets:

Schroeder, Trez, THT, 2nds, maybe 2027 1st, AC (would prefer to hold onto)

KCP is neutral, on an okay deal, but not a great one

Time for Pelinka to do his job

[kayess]

Zach Lowe should concern anyone on the LeBron MVP train.

Near the end of the season he will cough up some massive breakdown, touting numbers and even providing video clips stumping for some candidate.

Because he is so highly regarded, people will eat it up believing it to be an infallible analytical analysis. Truth be told, it will be little more then an agenda slanted puff piece (using selective data to push his desired choice).

He did this once before, pushing Marc Gasol for defensive player of the year.
The campaign proved to be successful and ended up robbing LeBron of a defensive player of the year he had earned.

Literally no one was touting Marc Gasol for defensive player of the year prior to that puffxpose’.

Vegas can predict whatever they like. They are not taking into account the inevitable anyone but LeBron, Zach Lowe puff piece.

What in the ****? Show me where Zach Lowe is being agenda driven. Gasol being DPOY in 2013 was completely defensible (Bosh was co-anchor, arguably just as important on D as Bron), wtf are you talking about?

Zach Lowe's entire thing is his objective, "not a fan" approach to the game. He's had stronger takes recently that are more opinionated, for sure, but to say his pieces are agenda driven are utterly ridiculous.

Your knee-jerk response is exactly the type of response that make his hit pieces so magical.

Just because a guy uses an analytical approach and tries to back things up with “evidence”, it does not absolve them from bias. If you stare at numbers long enough you can find the right ones to support just about anything.

The next time Lowe supports LeBron for anything at all, it will be the first time.

Lmao, don't switch the goalposts and strawman. You said he's agenda driven, which I objected to, I never said he was NEVER biased.

Re, supporting LeBron: you mean the countless times Lowe has mentioned LeBron's probably already the GOAT (even circa 2018) just in terms of career value? Or his tweets during the magical 2018 run culminating in him saying LeBron's "on another plane of existence" against the Warriors? We could go even further back and go to 2016 where he said beating the Warriors was "unimaginable", and LeBron imagined a way to beat them? Yep, sure doesn't sound supportive of LeBron to me.

Even in 2012, pre Game 6 ECF, when he wrote about LeBron in the clutch and said it's all there, that you shouldn't just focus on the failures and take into account that he's actually been quite good in the clutch overall. The more sensible read of Lowe's tone is that he tries a bit too hard to go out of his way not to overtly support LeBron because he clearly thinks he's the GOAT (or close to it), and overcorrects for the bias there.

Yeahp, Lowe supporting LeBron in 2021 would be the absolute first time he's done it. You accusing me of having a knee-jerk response is completely laughable, lmaoooo

[kayess]

re: Brooklyn. Are they just the 2017 Cavs? Ie needs an all-time team to beat soundly beat them?

[Dupp]

Nets are way more talented. Kyries maybe slightly better now but you have harden and kd compared to lebron and love. Love is a long way below them guys.



But anyway the nets look really good and that’s still without kd

[dcstanley]

Read on Twitter

Would you guys do this deal? Seems a little rich but I think Tucker can help the Lakers more than Kieff, Wes, and Dudz provided he still has some juice left.

[Statlanta]

You can’t be scared of these Nets. A LeBron, Trez, AD front court is enough to make Joe Harris and DJ shutter

[Basileus777]

You can’t be scared of these Nets. A LeBron, Trez, AD front court is enough to make Joe Harris and DJ shutter

Nets would love to see Trez trying to guard KD on one end while killing LA's spacing on the other. You trot that lineup against the Nets and you'll get Harden/KD screen and rolled to death. You put AD on Durant and you're gutting your interior defense and still get to see Trez abused in constant screen and rolls. You're not beating this Nets team playing 2 bigs.

[Heej]

Joe Harris as your 4th option is one helluva luxury tbh. I feel like all of us kinda knew deep down inside that there was a possibility the Cavs could grow to regret dumping him too early. I still feel that way about Svi if he goes to a competent organization. Still cannot believe the Lakers traded that kid for one year of Reggie Bullock. As one of my boys I watch Knicks games with likes to say, how do you have 2 bad names? First off this guy is straight reggies, and second he's absolutely bollocks.

[Greyhound]

What in the ****? Show me where Zach Lowe is being agenda driven. Gasol being DPOY in 2013 was completely defensible (Bosh was co-anchor, arguably just as important on D as Bron), wtf are you talking about?

Zach Lowe's entire thing is his objective, "not a fan" approach to the game. He's had stronger takes recently that are more opinionated, for sure, but to say his pieces are agenda driven are utterly ridiculous.

Your knee-jerk response is exactly the type of response that make his hit pieces so magical.

Just because a guy uses an analytical approach and tries to back things up with “evidence”, it does not absolve them from bias. If you stare at numbers long enough you can find the right ones to support just about anything.

The next time Lowe supports LeBron for anything at all, it will be the first time.

Lmao, don't switch the goalposts and strawman. You said he's agenda driven, which I objected to, I never said he was NEVER biased.

Re, supporting LeBron: you mean the countless times Lowe has mentioned LeBron's probably already the GOAT (even circa 2018) just in terms of career value? Or his tweets during the magical 2018 run culminating in him saying LeBron's "on another plane of existence" against the Warriors? We could go even further back and go to 2016 where he said beating the Warriors was "unimaginable", and LeBron imagined a way to beat them? Yep, sure doesn't sound supportive of LeBron to me.

Even in 2012, pre Game 6 ECF, when he wrote about LeBron in the clutch and said it's all there, that you shouldn't just focus on the failures and take into account that he's actually been quite good in the clutch overall. The more sensible read of Lowe's tone is that he tries a bit too hard to go out of his way not to overtly support LeBron because he clearly thinks he's the GOAT (or close to it), and overcorrects for the bias there.

Yeahp, Lowe supporting LeBron in 2021 would be the absolute first time he's done it. You accusing me of having a knee-jerk response is completely laughable, lmaoooo

You took two whole days to come up with this? Agenda driven/ biased... any more hairs you would like to split?

LOL.

You already know where I stand on the (Lowe) matter. I don’t care what you think about what I think about it.