Is Fred VanVleet an all star?

RapZilla · Post #1 » by **RapZilla** » Mon Feb 22, 2021 6:29 pm

Up to now, I haven't heard anyone bringing up any Raptors as potential All Star reserves. Me included... until recently. Now that we've passed Boston and are in a tie for the 4th spot with Indiana, I think it's at least discussion worthy.

Of all the raptors VanVleet is the most deserving. He's been fantastic. His shooting is lethal and his defense is even better.

What say you?

Lockdown504090 · Post #2 » by **Lockdown504090** » Mon Feb 22, 2021 6:35 pm

probably not, but he deserves it and this crazy considering he was playing pickup at the scarborough YMCA and nobody cared in summer 2016.

Post #3 » by **Yuri Vaultin** » Mon Feb 22, 2021 6:37 pm

The stats say yes. The (US) fans say who?

Karate Diop · Post #4 » by **Karate Diop** » Mon Feb 22, 2021 6:40 pm

Over who? I can't see the argument...

mademan · Post #5 » by **mademan** » Mon Feb 22, 2021 6:42 pm

Karate Diop wrote:Over who? I can't see the argument...

Simmons/Harden/Lavine are probably the bench guards. He has an argument over Lavine, for sure, but thats even assuming 3 guards are picked (tho Simmons might be seen as a forward)

nikster · Post #6 » by **nikster** » Mon Feb 22, 2021 6:45 pm

He's borderline. 20 points and 6.6 assist, average scoring efficiency but low turnover rate. Does that while providing Elite defense. I think he's deserving but won't be surprised if he doesn't make it

Vampirate · Post #7 » by **Vampirate** » Mon Feb 22, 2021 6:46 pm

Yuri Vaultin wrote:The stats say yes. The (US) fans say who?

Eh, i'd put him as an high end starter rather than an All Star. He's the best shooter on the team imo, but a 40% FG overall isn't that great (it indicates in this case that FVV is a way better shooter than he is a finisher at the basket).

If he could keep the same stats while getting his FG% close to 45% then he'd have a better case. Especially when people think of all stars, they think of great scorers.

ropjhk · Post #8 » by **ropjhk** » Mon Feb 22, 2021 6:46 pm

3rd in RAPTOR WAR https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/nba-player-ratings/

He's also been very good on defense.

celticfan42487 · Post #9 » by **celticfan42487** » Mon Feb 22, 2021 6:46 pm

Put up a poll

He has some raw numbers but numbers with a sub 20 PER is generally not an all-star and he's at 17 (15 is an average NBA player, he's ranked 59th in PER right now) unless you're on the team with the best record or second best in the NBA.

Karate Diop · Post #10 » by **Karate Diop** » Mon Feb 22, 2021 6:49 pm

mademan wrote:
Karate Diop wrote:Over who? I can't see the argument...

Simmons/Harden/Lavine are probably the bench guards. He has an argument over Lavine, for sure, but thats even assuming 3 guards are picked (tho Simmons might be seen as a forward)

Eastern Conference guards who have been better than VanVleet:

Harden
Kyrie
Simmons (if we're counting him as a PG)
Beal
Trae
Brown
Brogdon
Lavine
Rozier (arguably / similar impact)

There may be others but those are the ones odd the top of my head... It'd be one thing if the Raptors had a good record or were an impressive team in which case you could argue for a sympathy placement on the team but he hasn't outperformed any of the guys mentioned...

mademan · Post #11 » by **mademan** » Mon Feb 22, 2021 6:53 pm

Karate Diop wrote:
mademan wrote:
Karate Diop wrote:Over who? I can't see the argument...

Simmons/Harden/Lavine are probably the bench guards. He has an argument over Lavine, for sure, but thats even assuming 3 guards are picked (tho Simmons might be seen as a forward)

Eastern Conference guards who have been better than VanVleet:

Harden
Kyrie
Simmons (if we're counting him as a PG)
Beal
Trae
Brown
Brogdon
Lavine
Rozier (arguably / similar impact)

There may be others but those are the ones odd the top of my head... It'd be one thing if the Raptors had a good record or were an impressive team in which case you could argue for a sympathy placement on the team but he hasn't outperformed any of the guys mentioned...

A lot of those are arguable. Harden/Kyrie have been better, hard to call Simmons a guard, imo, when he starts alongside Green/Curry. Lavine/Brodgon/Rozier are all arguable

Harcore Fenton Mun · Post #12 » by **Harcore Fenton Mun** » Mon Feb 22, 2021 6:56 pm

They're four games back of first in the east, given how they started that's impressive.

The funny thing is, they could be at the top of the east by the time the game rolls around. Maybe with no representation.

shakes0 · Post #13 » by **shakes0** » Mon Feb 22, 2021 6:58 pm

mademan wrote:
Karate Diop wrote:Over who? I can't see the argument...

Simmons/Harden/Lavine are probably the bench guards. He has an argument over Lavine, for sure, but thats even assuming 3 guards are picked (tho Simmons might be seen as a forward)

you forgot Trae. He's probably getting a spot with his increased level of play in the past few weeks plus the game being in ATL. Either way, he's definitely ahead of FVV.

mademan · Post #14 » by **mademan** » Mon Feb 22, 2021 7:01 pm

If you went positionless and picked 8? players (i think it's 13 total), it becomes more possible i think. But ya, forgot Trae. Dont think he gets in ahead of one or more of Harden/Trae/Lavine/Brogdon/Brown

_qubik · Post #15 » by **_qubik** » Mon Feb 22, 2021 7:03 pm

mademan wrote:
Karate Diop wrote:Over who? I can't see the argument...

Simmons/Harden/Lavine are probably the bench guards. He has an argument over Lavine, for sure, but thats even assuming 3 guards are picked (tho Simmons might be seen as a forward)

I dont think he has a case over Lavine, he is having a hell of a season, maybe he has one over Simmons, but we know he wont be selected over him.

mademan · Post #16 » by **mademan** » Mon Feb 22, 2021 7:05 pm

_qubik wrote:
mademan wrote:
Karate Diop wrote:Over who? I can't see the argument...

Simmons/Harden/Lavine are probably the bench guards. He has an argument over Lavine, for sure, but thats even assuming 3 guards are picked (tho Simmons might be seen as a forward)

I dont think he has a case over Lavine, he is having a hell of a season, maybe he has one over Simmons, but we know he wont be selected over him.

I just get Toronto era Derozan vibes from the dude. Crude stat, i know, but simple on/off has the team playing worse when he's on the court. I know thats not end all be all, but i have yet to see an impact guy that has a negative stat there.

Vampirate · Post #17 » by **Vampirate** » Mon Feb 22, 2021 7:07 pm

_qubik wrote:
mademan wrote:
Karate Diop wrote:Over who? I can't see the argument...

Simmons/Harden/Lavine are probably the bench guards. He has an argument over Lavine, for sure, but thats even assuming 3 guards are picked (tho Simmons might be seen as a forward)

I dont think he has a case over Lavine, he is having a hell of a season, maybe he has one over Simmons, but we know he wont be selected over him.

Ironically both FVV and Simmons lack what the other has.

Harcore Fenton Mun · Post #18 » by **Harcore Fenton Mun** » Mon Feb 22, 2021 7:10 pm

How many teams in the east have an argument for more than 1 player atm? Besides the Nets.

Not many, would be my guess.

_qubik · Post #19 » by **_qubik** » Mon Feb 22, 2021 7:10 pm

Vampirate wrote:
_qubik wrote:
mademan wrote:
Simmons/Harden/Lavine are probably the bench guards. He has an argument over Lavine, for sure, but thats even assuming 3 guards are picked (tho Simmons might be seen as a forward)

I dont think he has a case over Lavine, he is having a hell of a season, maybe he has one over Simmons, but we know he wont be selected over him.

Ironically both FVV and Simmons lack what the other has.

Yes, if we watched a player with Simmons size, passing and athleticism with FVV shotmaking while both are good defenders, we would have a perennial MVP candidate

everdiso · Post #20 » by **everdiso** » Mon Feb 22, 2021 7:12 pm

VanVleet is better than Simmons by every measure.