OT: Tiger Woods seriously injured in car accident

[Michael Jackson]

As a golf fan that only watches for Tiger greatness, I haven't enjoyed watching him while slowly fading away physically on the golf course. If he's gone now, well.....

I have a serious golf addiction, both on the course and on TV, and I have PGA Tour Live playing on my computer on Thursday and Friday when I'm at my desk. That said, I never liked Tiger and thought he was a douche. A Tom Brady/Patriots/Duke kinda hate. Davis, Phil and Freddy were always my first tier guys (Spieth and Thomas now), and "schmo's" like Kevin Na, and Ryan Moore types were my second tier.

That being said, the dude has had hard times and his career hasn't been a shadow of what it was since Elin tried to massage his scalp with a driver. This is a tragedy and I hope he gets better and decides to have some kind of place in the golf world when he heals.

From reading that I’m going to take it you are not a DJ guy either, one because you didn’t mention him and two because he is that Tom Brady guy.

Last year like a lot of people I played a lot more than I had in the past, I wanted to start an OT thread here on the best local courses.

[Michael Jackson]

I have a serious golf addiction, both on the course and on TV, and I have PGA Tour Live playing on my computer on Thursday and Friday when I'm at my desk. That said, I never liked Tiger and thought he was a douche. A Tom Brady/Patriots/Duke kinda hate. Davis, Phil and Freddy were always my first tier guys (Spieth and Thomas now), and "schmo's" like Kevin Na, and Ryan Moore types were my second tier.

That being said, the dude has had hard times and his career hasn't been a shadow of what it was since Elin tried to massage his scalp with a driver. This is a tragedy and I hope he gets better and decides to have some kind of place in the golf world when he heals.

I remember when it seemed like a forgone conclusion that he would break Jack Nicklaus’ record for most Major’s won. It looks like Tiger will recover from his injuries but his golf career is probably over. Yeah Tiger has never been the same since he was exposed for his cheating.

Yeah, he seemed a shoe in for 20-25 majors at one point. The psychological damage from his divorce and sex stuff, and then all the injuries have really taken their toll. People said when he was young that his back would never hold up with how hard he swung, and they were right.

That being said, anyone who doubts he will never play competitive golf again should read about Ben Hogan and what he went through. Hit head on by a bus, crushed his hip and leg, doctors doubted he'd ever walk again, let alone play golf. But he played his best golf post injury. He was younger than Tiger at the time, but the medical technology was also nothing compared to what it is now, and his injuries were likely much more severe.

At the very least he can still be competitive on the Champions Tour I would think. I can see him being competitive on the standard tour but he wasn’t dominate anymore anyhow, so he can return with the out,over chance still to win a major before he goes to the champions.

[Jello Biafra]

As a golf fan that only watches for Tiger greatness, I haven't enjoyed watching him while slowly fading away physically on the golf course. If he's gone now, well.....

I have a serious golf addiction, both on the course and on TV, and I have PGA Tour Live playing on my computer on Thursday and Friday when I'm at my desk. That said, I never liked Tiger and thought he was a douche. A Tom Brady/Patriots/Duke kinda hate. Davis, Phil and Freddy were always my first tier guys (Spieth and Thomas now), and "schmo's" like Kevin Na, and Ryan Moore types were my second tier.

That being said, the dude has had hard times and his career hasn't been a shadow of what it was since Elin tried to massage his scalp with a driver. This is a tragedy and I hope he gets better and decides to have some kind of place in the golf world when he heals.

From reading that I’m going to take it you are not a DJ guy either, one because you didn’t mention him and two because he is that Tom Brady guy.

Last year like a lot of people I played a lot more than I had in the past, I wanted to start an OT thread here on the best local courses.

My wife is a huge fan of the bulge in DJ's pants when he saunters down the fairway. Seriously. I like him too because I have a cousin who resembles him and is slow like him. That and the way he rubs Paulina's ass after he wins.

[DuckIII]

As a golf fan that only watches for Tiger greatness, I haven't enjoyed watching him while slowly fading away physically on the golf course. If he's gone now, well.....

I have a serious golf addiction, both on the course and on TV, and I have PGA Tour Live playing on my computer on Thursday and Friday when I'm at my desk. That said, I never liked Tiger and thought he was a douche. A Tom Brady/Patriots/Duke kinda hate. Davis, Phil and Freddy were always my first tier guys (Spieth and Thomas now), and "schmo's" like Kevin Na, and Ryan Moore types were my second tier.

That being said, the dude has had hard times and his career hasn't been a shadow of what it was since Elin tried to massage his scalp with a driver. This is a tragedy and I hope he gets better and decides to have some kind of place in the golf world when he heals.

From reading that I’m going to take it you are not a DJ guy either, one because you didn’t mention him and two because he is that Tom Brady guy.

Last year like a lot of people I played a lot more than I had in the past, I wanted to start an OT thread here on the best local courses.

It never occurred to me to liken DJ to Brady. Is it because he’s handsome and has a gorgeous, high profile spouse?

Professionally DJ’s career trajectory has been a struggle, with several incredibly bad breaks going against him over the years which he had to overcome to be the world’s best.

Brady is great, but he’s also had the most charmed career of any superstar athlete I’ve ever seen.

[DuckIII]

Yeah, he seemed a shoe in for 20-25 majors at one point. The psychological damage from his divorce and sex stuff, and then all the injuries have really taken their toll. People said when he was young that his back would never hold up with how hard he swung, and they were right.

That being said, anyone who doubts he will never play competitive golf again should read about Ben Hogan and what he went through. Hit head on by a bus, crushed his hip and leg, doctors doubted he'd ever walk again, let alone play golf. But he played his best golf post injury. He was younger than Tiger at the time, but the medical technology was also nothing compared to what it is now, and his injuries were likely much more severe.

That’s all true about Hogan, and I can’t compare the complexities of the injuries relatively speaking. But a couple of points:

1. At minimum we know Tiger’s lower right leg is being reconstructed. It was a good sign they the tibia was intact enough that a rod could be implanted. But the extent to which a right handed golfer - one who swings correctly - relies on his right leg is hard to overstate. Lower backs and anchor legs are absolutely critical.

2. Tiger has already had 5, count them, 5 back surgeries. And two knee surgeries. Plus numerous other neck, leg and shoulder issues during his career.

3. He’s 45.

It’s almost unimaginable that he ever again competes on the PGA Tour at a high level. The only reason I don’t say impossible it’s because it’s Tiger.

[Michael Jackson]

I have a serious golf addiction, both on the course and on TV, and I have PGA Tour Live playing on my computer on Thursday and Friday when I'm at my desk. That said, I never liked Tiger and thought he was a douche. A Tom Brady/Patriots/Duke kinda hate. Davis, Phil and Freddy were always my first tier guys (Spieth and Thomas now), and "schmo's" like Kevin Na, and Ryan Moore types were my second tier.

That being said, the dude has had hard times and his career hasn't been a shadow of what it was since Elin tried to massage his scalp with a driver. This is a tragedy and I hope he gets better and decides to have some kind of place in the golf world when he heals.

From reading that I’m going to take it you are not a DJ guy either, one because you didn’t mention him and two because he is that Tom Brady guy.

Last year like a lot of people I played a lot more than I had in the past, I wanted to start an OT thread here on the best local courses.

It never occurred to me to liken DJ to Brady. Is it because he’s handsome and has a gorgeous, high profile spouse?

Professionally DJ’s career trajectory has been a struggle, with several incredibly bad breaks going against him over the years which he had to overcome to be the world’s best.

Brady is great, but he’s also had the most charmed career of any superstar athlete I’ve ever seen.

I was mainly comparing him in the context of that guy from the Dead Kennedy’s post. It’s not an exact comparison but in that context it made sense. I like DJ myself but he is the front runner of the sport now he is going to get some shade, it comes with the territory. MJ may be immortal now but in his prime he was still hated by plenty.

[Michael Jackson]

Yeah, he seemed a shoe in for 20-25 majors at one point. The psychological damage from his divorce and sex stuff, and then all the injuries have really taken their toll. People said when he was young that his back would never hold up with how hard he swung, and they were right.

That being said, anyone who doubts he will never play competitive golf again should read about Ben Hogan and what he went through. Hit head on by a bus, crushed his hip and leg, doctors doubted he'd ever walk again, let alone play golf. But he played his best golf post injury. He was younger than Tiger at the time, but the medical technology was also nothing compared to what it is now, and his injuries were likely much more severe.

That’s all true about Hogan, and I can’t compare the complexities of the injuries relatively speaking. But a couple of points:

1. At minimum we know Tiger’s lower right leg is being reconstructed. It was a good sign they the tibia was intact enough that a rod could be implanted. But the extent to which a right handed golfer - one who swings correctly - relies on his right leg is hard to overstate. Lower backs and anchor legs are absolutely critical.

2. Tiger has already had 5, count them, 5 back surgeries. And two knee surgeries. Plus numerous other neck, leg and shoulder issues during his career.

3. He’s 45.

It’s almost unimaginable that he ever again competes on the PGA Tour at a high level. The only reason I don’t say impossible it’s because it’s Tiger.

If he did come back and win more majors it would be one of the greatest sports stories, for the sport itself it would be an amazing narrative to sell. He is just so beat up prior to this that I can’t see it. Who knows though maybe this gives him the killer edge again, nothing to lose... if his head is back in the game, that’s the biggest key. If he was killer tiger he could work around the limitations, but I think Tiger was a killer because he felt he had no limitations.

[DuckIII]

Yeah, he seemed a shoe in for 20-25 majors at one point. The psychological damage from his divorce and sex stuff, and then all the injuries have really taken their toll. People said when he was young that his back would never hold up with how hard he swung, and they were right.

That being said, anyone who doubts he will never play competitive golf again should read about Ben Hogan and what he went through. Hit head on by a bus, crushed his hip and leg, doctors doubted he'd ever walk again, let alone play golf. But he played his best golf post injury. He was younger than Tiger at the time, but the medical technology was also nothing compared to what it is now, and his injuries were likely much more severe.

That’s all true about Hogan, and I can’t compare the complexities of the injuries relatively speaking. But a couple of points:

1. At minimum we know Tiger’s lower right leg is being reconstructed. It was a good sign they the tibia was intact enough that a rod could be implanted. But the extent to which a right handed golfer - one who swings correctly - relies on his right leg is hard to overstate. Lower backs and anchor legs are absolutely critical.

2. Tiger has already had 5, count them, 5 back surgeries. And two knee surgeries. Plus numerous other neck, leg and shoulder issues during his career.

3. He’s 45.

It’s almost unimaginable that he ever again competes on the PGA Tour at a high level. The only reason I don’t say impossible it’s because it’s Tiger.

If he did come back and win more majors it would be one of the greatest sports stories, for the sport itself it would be an amazing narrative to sell. He is just so beat up prior to this that I can’t see it. Who knows though maybe this gives him the killer edge again, nothing to lose... if his head is back in the game, that’s the biggest key. If he was killer tiger he could work around the limitations, but I think Tiger was a killer because he felt he had no limitations.

I trust his ability to get his head right. He’s on MJ’s level as being so singularly obsessed with winning that it borders on psychopathic. His mental focus and will is just bizarre.

To me it’s more that there’s just some things - or in Tiger’s case an aggregate of many things - the human body cannot overcome.

We aren’t talking about whether he’ll be able to come back and break par playing with his kids and friends. We’re talking about being able to compete at the most elite level of a sport in which the margin of error between the top 20 players in the world and guys who can’t even get a tour card is razor thin.

[Stratmaster]

That’s all true about Hogan, and I can’t compare the complexities of the injuries relatively speaking. But a couple of points:

1. At minimum we know Tiger’s lower right leg is being reconstructed. It was a good sign they the tibia was intact enough that a rod could be implanted. But the extent to which a right handed golfer - one who swings correctly - relies on his right leg is hard to overstate. Lower backs and anchor legs are absolutely critical.

2. Tiger has already had 5, count them, 5 back surgeries. And two knee surgeries. Plus numerous other neck, leg and shoulder issues during his career.

3. He’s 45.

It’s almost unimaginable that he ever again competes on the PGA Tour at a high level. The only reason I don’t say impossible it’s because it’s Tiger.

If he did come back and win more majors it would be one of the greatest sports stories, for the sport itself it would be an amazing narrative to sell. He is just so beat up prior to this that I can’t see it. Who knows though maybe this gives him the killer edge again, nothing to lose... if his head is back in the game, that’s the biggest key. If he was killer tiger he could work around the limitations, but I think Tiger was a killer because he felt he had no limitations.

I trust his ability to get his head right. He’s on MJ’s level as being so singularly obsessed with winning that it borders on psychopathic. His mental focus and will is just bizarre.

To me it’s more that there’s just some things - or in Tiger’s case an aggregate of many things - the human body cannot overcome.

We aren’t talking about whether he’ll be able to come back and break par playing with his kids and friends. We’re talking about being able to compete at the most elite level of a sport in which the margin of error between the top 20 players in the world and guys who can’t even get a tour card is razor thin.

Unfortunately, I am with you on this. They showed Tiger in an interview that I believe was within the last couple of days before the accident (where he said he "hoped he could get there" referring to the Masters). I was shocked at how haggard he looked. Fighting through all those injuries to try to get back on the tour appeared to already be taking a toll. Now this.

Very sad. It seems like Tiger was one of those prodigy's who never really found any real happiness in his success. In his last return it seemed like he finally had found some inner peace and some enjoyment in being around other players, fans, etc.

I hope the guy retires and finds things in his life that make him feel happy and at peace.

[DuckIII]

Side note:

If you are interested in Tiger Woods, I strongly recommend the recent HBO documentary. This is a complicated man who has lived an incredibly complicated life.

Being a little less than 2 years older than Tiger and being a junior golfer at the same time as him, I’ve spent pretty much my whole life as a fan who followed both his career and life pretty closely. So I already knew almost everything in that documentary. But there were some new things that were just bonkers, especially in the first episode which focused on his childhood and rise (it’s a two part doc). And what I did already know was packaged very well and made for compelling stuff.

[Stratmaster]

Side note:

If you are interested in Tiger Woods, I strongly recommend the recent HBO documentary. This is a complicated man who has lived an incredibly complicated life.

Being a little less than 2 years older than Tiger and being a junior golfer at the same time as him, I’ve spent pretty much my whole life as a fan who followed both his career and life pretty closely. So I already knew almost everything in that documentary. But there were some new things what were just bonkers, especially in the first episode which focused on his childhood and rise (it’s a two part doc). And what I did already know was packaged very well and made for compelling stuff.

I already watched that also and thought it was a great documentary. Tiger has never really known a life that didn't include hours on the golf course daily.

I always wonder about athletes who are pushed that hard by their parents. Even the stories about Zach sometimes make me worry. I thought it was interesting when they asked Zach about his dad's "training camp" routines that Zach said "I realized I had to want it more than my dad did". That kind of comment always makes me wonder if there aren't repercussions. But Zach seems to cherish all his family, not just his parents, and I don't know the details of the relationships or the character of his dad like I do with Tiger after watching that documentary.

[DuckIII]

Totally agree. But the thing that blew my mind in that documentary about Earl was not about the outrageous amount of pressure he put on Tiger to achieve at golf (I knew all of that already), but the recorded interviews and speeches he gave in which he explained that Tiger would be a messianic figure who would transcend golf and unite the cultures, peoples and religions of the world.

When Tiger was a teenager Earl was already publicly predicting that he would be like Mandela and Gandhi. Like actually using those names as the expectation. I mean, what a mind **** to place on a teenager. Craziness.

[Stratmaster]

Totally agree. But the thing that blew my mind in that documentary about Earl was not about the outrageous amount of pressure he put on Tiger to achieve at golf (I knew all of that already), but the recorded interviews and speeches he gave in which he explained that Tiger would be a messianic figure who would transcend golf and unite the cultures, peoples and religions of the world.

When Tiger was a teenager Earl was already publicly predicting that he would be like Mandela and Gandhi. Like actually using those names as the expectation. I mean, what a mind **** to place on a teenager. Craziness.

Yep. And while talking that way Earl was touring with Tiger, whoring around and partying.

[Jello Biafra]

From reading that I’m going to take it you are not a DJ guy either, one because you didn’t mention him and two because he is that Tom Brady guy.

Last year like a lot of people I played a lot more than I had in the past, I wanted to start an OT thread here on the best local courses.

It never occurred to me to liken DJ to Brady. Is it because he’s handsome and has a gorgeous, high profile spouse?

Professionally DJ’s career trajectory has been a struggle, with several incredibly bad breaks going against him over the years which he had to overcome to be the world’s best.

Brady is great, but he’s also had the most charmed career of any superstar athlete I’ve ever seen.

I was mainly comparing him in the context of that guy from the Dead Kennedy’s post. It’s not an exact comparison but in that context it made sense. I like DJ myself but he is the front runner of the sport now he is going to get some shade, it comes with the territory. MJ may be immortal now but in his prime he was still hated by plenty.

DJ is the best player in golf right now in general, (Patrick Cantlay is the hottest I'd argue) but he doesn't get the hate that perennial favorites like Duke or Brady get. By the way, don't know if you saw this but Rory says everyone on Tour is expecting Tiger to come back and kick ass. "You never count out Tiger".

And as Dresden posted above, Ben Hogan won six more majors including the 1950 U.S. Open, just 16 months after the accident. Woods is 10 years older but orthopedic surgery, rehabilitation and training have increased by leaps and bounds in the last 72 years.

[Jello Biafra]

I wanted to start an OT thread here on the best local courses.

Please do. I live downstate, belong to a Country Club and play there mostly. Always useful to find new gems. When I play in Chicago I go with family and friends and its usually in the southwest suburbs at a variety of tracks from Big Run types to nicer ones like Cog Hill and Seven Bridges.

[fleet]

It never occurred to me to liken DJ to Brady. Is it because he’s handsome and has a gorgeous, high profile spouse?

Professionally DJ’s career trajectory has been a struggle, with several incredibly bad breaks going against him over the years which he had to overcome to be the world’s best.

Brady is great, but he’s also had the most charmed career of any superstar athlete I’ve ever seen.

I was mainly comparing him in the context of that guy from the Dead Kennedy’s post. It’s not an exact comparison but in that context it made sense. I like DJ myself but he is the front runner of the sport now he is going to get some shade, it comes with the territory. MJ may be immortal now but in his prime he was still hated by plenty.

DJ is the best player in golf right now in general, (Patrick Cantlay is the hottest I'd argue) but he doesn't get the hate that perennial favorites like Duke or Brady get. By the way, don't know if you saw this but Rory says everyone on Tour is expecting Tiger to come back and kick ass. "You never count out Tiger".

And as Dresden posted above, Ben Hogan won six more majors including the 1950 U.S. Open, just 16 months after the accident. Woods is 10 years older but orthopedic surgery, rehabilitation and training have increased by leaps and bounds in the last 72 years.

This is where I step in to offer my personal experience with the injury to mention things to worry about. There are people that have no issues after, and they play pro football. Then again, there are varying degrees of successful results they can have depending on the nature/location of the fractures (well above the ankle means less problems). You can have nerve damage, and also you can have a situation where the new leg just seems different. Mine, I have drop foot, and am pigeon toed with my left leg. Difficult to turn the leg over when I run. I can do it, but it takes a lot of extra focus. I've lost something. Swinging a golf club is a different story. For a right hander, planting and pivoting off the right foot is a key. And rolling the left foot after impact follow through another. Again I have functional problems there. Maybe I had poor doctors, maybe I had a challenging reconstruction, I don't know. Rehabbing this thing It took years where I felt anything close to normal. Left leg is still weaker than right. Tiger is gonna lose another year, and he needs his nerves to be 100%.

[DuckIII]

I wanted to start an OT thread here on the best local courses.

Please do. I live downstate, belong to a Country Club and play there mostly. Always useful to find new gems. When I play in Chicago I go with family and friends and its usually in the southwest suburbs at a variety of tracks from Big Run types to nicer ones like Cog Hill and Seven Bridges.

Are you a member at Decatur CC? They are hosting a Prep Tour tourney there and at Red Tail and I’m thinking about taking my 13 year old but know nothing about either course.

[Jello Biafra]

I wanted to start an OT thread here on the best local courses.

Please do. I live downstate, belong to a Country Club and play there mostly. Always useful to find new gems. When I play in Chicago I go with family and friends and its usually in the southwest suburbs at a variety of tracks from Big Run types to nicer ones like Cog Hill and Seven Bridges.

Are you a member at Decatur CC? They are hosting a Prep Tour tourney there and at Red Tail and I’m thinking about taking my 13 year old but know nothing about either course.

Yes, I'm a member at what we call CCD, Country Club of Decatur, and play at Red Tail occasionally. CCD is a par 72 has zoysia fairways and bent greens and aprons. It's 6600 yards long and narrow lined with very mature trees. Its an older course built I believe in 1919. My dad was a member and I've been a member since I was born. We have a great clubhouse and dining facilities. Here is the scorecard.







Red Tail is relatively new public course and was originally designed by Raymond Floyd. It's 2 different 9's on 2 sides of a street. The front is a prairie style links course with few trees and a lot of natural waste areas. The back nine is tree lined to the point that they have trouble with air movement. It's bluegrass with bent greens. Below is a picture of number 1 at Red Tail so you see what I mean by links.



I'll keep an eye out for the tournament. Good luck to your kid!

[Michael Jackson]

I wanted to start an OT thread here on the best local courses.

Please do. I live downstate, belong to a Country Club and play there mostly. Always useful to find new gems. When I play in Chicago I go with family and friends and its usually in the southwest suburbs at a variety of tracks from Big Run types to nicer ones like Cog Hill and Seven Bridges.

Are you a member at Decatur CC? They are hosting a Prep Tour tourney there and at Red Tail and I’m thinking about taking my 13 year old but know nothing about either course.

I get downstate for work often we should find a night I do an overnight and we can meetup. I actually stay in Quincy pretty often which isn't exactly half way between Decatur and St Louis but we could figure something out. A RealGm downstate golf outing

[Michael Jackson]

I wanted to start an OT thread here on the best local courses.

Please do. I live downstate, belong to a Country Club and play there mostly. Always useful to find new gems. When I play in Chicago I go with family and friends and its usually in the southwest suburbs at a variety of tracks from Big Run types to nicer ones like Cog Hill and Seven Bridges.

I live by Seven Bridges, Was looking at getting a membership there for my company this year but I think we are opting out of it. That is a tough course. I play the 9 hole next to it (Riverbend) 1-2 times a week though last year because it was close and cheap and I could walk it at lunch since I wasn't seeing many customers this year.

At Cog personally I think the Ravines is the best track... it is as good as Dubs.

One of my former co-workers and now a customer of mine started a golf review on instagram that gained traction this past year called Parhopper. Its a pretty good review of less expensive courses.

Cantigny is one of my favorites but I think they are overpriced up here, I get a good rate though. Arrowhead was sort of a home course for me.