Bayaz wrote:I'm convinced you didn't actually read the vast majority of my reply, so that was a huge waste of time of my part. Not going to put as much effort into this one.
Were the 12-13 Heat an ATG team,
Demonstrably yes.
or anywhere near as good as the KD era Warriors?
No, because they were nowhere near as talented. I swear if you reply saying "Lebron got to choose his teammat-" m8 that's not the point. If you think KD would have made the 2013 Heat better than Lebron did, then you have a point. No evidence to indicate that though.
Were they better all time than the Spurs teams of that period?
Slightly worse despite bigger injuries.
You're arguing that LBJ's Cleveland teams had better offenses than the KD era Warriors? Because that sounds ridiculous.
...Are you serious? How on earth is "that sounds ridiculous" an acceptable counter argument? You've just exposed yourself as having extreme bias and didn't even realize it. The irony in you linking articles to other people on cognitive biases
. You straight up dismissed a fact because it doesn't fit your narrative, but it's
true, I literally showed this in my wall of stats which you apparently didn't even look at. The 2016 Cavs had a better playoff offence than the 2018 Warriors and 2019 Warriors, whilst the 2017 Cavs had a better playoff offence than the 2017 Warriors, whilst also facing better defences on average. Only the 18 Warriors were better than the 18 Cavs in the PS, if you could address this with a rebuttal instead of a dismissal that'd be lovely.
Also, are we gong to ignore LBJ's time in Miami, where is inability to adapt to Wade in year one lead to a painfully disappointing finals loss to the Mavs?
As long as you don't ignore that his ability to adapt to Wade, Kyrie and AD led to multiple championships. That seems fair.
What do you mean KD hasn't shown an ability to fit seamlessly with other all NBA talents?
I didn't say that? I said his ability to fit seamlessly with other All NBA talents is irrelevant because it still didn't lead to PS offences as good as Lebron's did when Lebron marginalized other talents.
When he put up one of the worst finals series of all time for a player for a player of his talent & stature, before ultimately losing the finals? That's your example of him adopting a different style of play?
1. I mentioned 4 years in which he adopted a different style of play and you ignore the 2 years in which said change of play won championships and focus on the times he lost.
Thank you for taking all evidence into account when making your points, I love talking to people so intellectually honest. 2. Uhhhh, which finals series are you talking about? I was talking about 2014 where he scored 28 points on 68TS% with 52% shooting from 3. They lost that series because of poor defence not offence. That wasn't one of the worst finals series of all time, far from it.
I've already addressed this in my OP. He guarantees competitive teams and long playoff runs, but his inability to play any other way
I JUST SHOWED YOU HE WON MULTIPLE CHAMPIONSHIPS WHILST PLAYING AN "OTHER WAY", WHY YOU DO JUST IGNORE THE THINGS I SAY?
also puts a ceiling on his teams that does not exist with KD.
I JUST SHOWED YOU THAT LEBRON'S TEAMS REACHED HIGHER HEIGHTS ON OFFENCE THAN KD'S DID, WHY DO YOU JUST IGNORE THE THINGS I SAY
?
Hence the KD era Warriors being one of the greatest teams of all time, a title none of LBJ's can claim, or are even in discussion for regardless of the talent he's surrounded himself with.
I love how you keep on saying "regardless of talent". It's very much not regardless of talent though is it
It's your buzz word / catch phrase that allows you to disregard the superior talent KD played with and act like it doesn't matter
so ridiculous.
He's the most efficient volume scorer in finals history,
You seem to have a fetish for ignoring context.
KD averages 32 points on 67TS% in the finals whilst Lebron averages 28 points on 56TS% in the Finals. Omg, KD **** on Lebron in the finals right? Wrong, context:
Kevin Durant has played in 3 Finals (played 11 minutes in one game in 2019 so i'm not counting that) against the 4th, 21st and 29th defence in the league in that order. He has a
14 game sample size, on average faces the
18th ranked defence in the league whilst being on the most talented team of all time with multiple GOAT off ball players for
9 of these 14 games, and had one All star teammate at least for every single one, but most of the time had
3. He also played 2/3rds of this 14 game sample size from 2018 onwards, in one of the fastest paced, most efficient, least difficult offensive eras in league history (comparable to the 80s). He averages 32 points, 8 rebounds and 5 assists and 3 turnovers on 67TS%
Lebron has played 10 finals against the 1st, 2nd, 2nd, 3rd, 3rd, 5th, 8th, 11th, 11th and 11th defences.
He has a
55 game sample size, on average faces the
6th ranked defence in the league whilst having zero All Star support for 10 of them and never having as much help as KD. He played 2/10 of this 55 game sample size from 2018 onwards. He averages 28 points, 10 rebounds and 8 assists with 4 turnovers on 56TS%
So in other words, when KD played more time in the easier era, had better teammates, less to do, faced worse defences and had his sample size of games
a quarter as large as LeBron's, he scored more points than him on higher efficiency,
but still never led an offence in the PS as good as Lebrons did btw. That's not impressive.
and one of the most efficient volume scorers of all time in the post season. Neither of these facts are arguable, you could've saved yourself a wall of stats.
He's not a better efficient volume scorer than Lebron in the post season oh my gooood
, did you literally not read my post? If so why did you even reply?
None of your caveats or rationalizations change the fact that KD scores at a higher volume & a more efficient clip than LBJ, while possessing a skillset that instrumental to creating what is possibly the greatest team of all time.
**** ARE YOU **** KIDDING ME? HE DOESN'T SCORE AT A HIGHER VOLUME AND A MORE EFFICIENT CLIP THAN LBJ, HE SCORES ON A LOWER VOLUME ON THE SAME EFFICIENCY AND MUCH WORSE RELATIVE EFFICIENCY, I SHOWED THIS. What is happening ;___; i'm starting to think you're a very sophisticated troll.
You said KD's ability to be portable makes him better on offence than LeBron and that KD > Lebron since 2014 and that KD makes ATG teams and dynasties whilst Lebron just stuffs the stats
Yes, he proved this with the Warriors, and is now doing so again with Brooklyn.
HOW DID HE PROVE HE MAKES BETTER OFFENCES THAN LEBRON BY LEADING WORSE PLAYOFF OFFENCES THAN LEBRON? You've not addressed this once
Also, you said that KD usually gives his teams a better chance of being competitive than Lebron's do and used OKC being "irrelevant" after he left a proof of this. You gonna address the fact that's Lebron's team have been much worse without him than Durant's teams have been without Durant or no? OKC making 3 straight playoff appearances in a harder conference > Cavs being in the lottery 4 straight years.
