Rookie Play, Highlights & Discussion

[Merc_Porto]

Another awful perfomance...
But the statline is there again

21pts, 6reb, 1stl, 2blk for Edwards

This way of the Timberwolves develop young guys is crazy man. Instead of held accountable this guys because of the consistently poor play. We give them freedom to create bad habits after bad habits.

So Timberwolves.

[robillionaire]

Lamelo is ROY, no doubt about it. haliburton is also having a very efficient season and I like what quickley has done although he's not getting the minutes of the aforementioned players. edwards has been pretty bad imo

[sikma42]

Lamelo is ROY, no doubt about it. haliburton is also having a very efficient season and I like what quickley has done although he's not getting the minutes of the aforementioned players. edwards has been pretty bad imo

The more I watch Edwards, the more impressed I get. He is figuring out stuff and as he does he's looking freakishly explosive. If he wants to put the work in, he has the talent to be an all-nba performer for years.

Sent from my SM-N960U using RealGM mobile app

[Liver_Pooty]

Lamelo is ROY, no doubt about it. haliburton is also having a very efficient season and I like what quickley has done although he's not getting the minutes of the aforementioned players. edwards has been pretty bad imo

The more I watch Edwards, the more impressed I get. He is figuring out stuff and as he does he's looking freakishly explosive. If he wants to put the work in, he has the talent to be an all-nba performer for years.

Sent from my SM-N960U using RealGM mobile app

All NBA is a huge reach. Hes been awful 80% of the season. Lol.

[KembaWalker]

LaMelo put a whole tier between himself and Haliburton after last night. Efficient 24/12 win on the road over his team with Graham Hayward and Zeller out

[brutalitops]

Lamelo is ROY, no doubt about it. haliburton is also having a very efficient season and I like what quickley has done although he's not getting the minutes of the aforementioned players. edwards has been pretty bad imo

The more I watch Edwards, the more impressed I get. He is figuring out stuff and as he does he's looking freakishly explosive. If he wants to put the work in, he has the talent to be an all-nba performer for years.

Sent from my SM-N960U using RealGM mobile app

All NBA is a huge reach. Hes been awful 80% of the season. Lol.

Talking about a huge reach.

[Klomp]

Watch on YouTube

[The_Hater]

Lamelo is ROY, no doubt about it. haliburton is also having a very efficient season and I like what quickley has done although he's not getting the minutes of the aforementioned players. edwards has been pretty bad imo

Ya I agree with all of this. Edwards has put up ok counting stats but is grossly inefficient and his bball iq and shot selection seem miles behind where it needs to be. He’d be unplayable on any decent team with his decision making. I’m sure those issues will improve but it doesn’t always improve to where it needs to be.

[HotelVitale]

Another awful perfomance... But the statline is there again
21pts, 6reb, 1stl, 2blk for Edwards
This way of the Timberwolves develop young guys is crazy man. Instead of held accountable this guys because of the consistently poor play. We give them freedom to create bad habits after bad habits. So Timberwolves.

I hear you but I think this is a false narrative, or rather a greatly simplified one. Higher-level basketball is about developing instincts and having people execute the right thing without thinking; none of that is just academic or abstract learning, it has to come 100% in the feel and general flow of the game. If you pull him every time he misses a couple shots in a row, he may understand 'oh it's bad to miss shots' but he's not understanding how to, like, get better at making shots, which is what you want him to do.

I'm watching this full play vid of all the shots, rebounds, fouls etc involving Edwards and, while he makes a lot of mistakes, none of them are just flat out 'you can't do that in the NBA, kiddo!' type decisions. He's just figuring out what he can and can't get away with in the NBA. It's a mystery why some players can learn that well and others can't, but players have to learn it on the go and nothing's gained by them riding the pine. And while it's frustrating there's no way to just say 'darn it you're gonna LEARN' and force someone to make incredibly fast and difficult things second nature. (Note the editing in the last half of the vid is jumpy).

Watch on YouTube

[Loneshot]

I have only seen Edwards play a hand full of games, but his future looks very promising. The way Edwards can maneuver between defenders to get to the rim is very impressive. I really do hope that his development continues as I can see him easily becoming a prolific scorer.

[Jadoogar]

LaMelo put a whole tier between himself and Haliburton after last night. Efficient 24/12 win on the road over his team with Graham Hayward and Zeller out

Yea Lamelo kinda running away with it

[FinnTheHuman]

Another awful perfomance... But the statline is there again
21pts, 6reb, 1stl, 2blk for Edwards
This way of the Timberwolves develop young guys is crazy man. Instead of held accountable this guys because of the consistently poor play. We give them freedom to create bad habits after bad habits. So Timberwolves.

I hear you but I think this is a false narrative, or rather a greatly simplified one. Higher-level basketball is about developing instincts and having people execute the right thing without thinking; none of that is just academic or abstract learning, it has to come 100% in the feel and general flow of the game. If you pull him every time he misses a couple shots in a row, he may understand 'oh it's bad to miss shots' but he's not understanding how to, like, get better at making shots, which is what you want him to do.

I'm watching this full play vid of all the shots, rebounds, fouls etc involving Edwards and, while he makes a lot of mistakes, none of them are just flat out 'you can't do that in the NBA, kiddo!' type decisions. He's just figuring out what he can and can't get away with in the NBA. It's a mystery why some players can learn that well and others can't, but players have to learn it on the go and nothing's gained by them riding the pine. And while it's frustrating there's no way to just say 'darn it you're gonna LEARN' and force someone to make incredibly fast and difficult things second nature. (Note the editing in the last half of the vid is jumpy).

Watch on YouTube

Thank you thank you thank you. This is what I've been trying to explain to the Wolves fans so many times this year. Everything he does is a never a dumb basketball play, his mistakes are the kind of mistakes I have very little issue with.

Like in the video you provided, all of his missed shots are either sensible attempts at attacking the rim and semi-open or open 3pt shots either by spotting up or shooting off the dribble because the defender sagged off. His turnovers are pretty much all him attacking the rim and getting stripped or attempting to make a pass that makes sense.

In this failed season for the Wolves, I'd never want to bench a 19 year old rookie with potential to be elite at driving and shooting 3s by spotting up or off the dribble, by benching him for trying to figure out how to be effective at driving and shooting 3s. He's not terrible defensively either, so he doesn't ruin team defense.

It's just people being terrified because of the Wiggins trauma, but the two are worlds apart, as Wiggins is an athlete first and foremost, while Edwards is a hooper 1st and foremost.

I'm afraid this stupid Wolves fan talk gets to the team and Edwards, because he's doing exactly what he should be doing if we want him to become the best player he could possibly be.

The kind of freedom Edwards has right now is the same kind of freedom guys like Mitchell, Trae or Doncic had in their rookie seasons, and look at them now.

[amcoolio]

Edwards has been better than I thought, don't get the hate. A guy with that size and scoring ability will make it in the NBA.

Wiseman though has been what I expected. I don't think he has the awareness/agility/creativity to get to an Embiid/Jokic/Vucevic/Gobert/Sabonis tier of big man. Said it before the draft. Nice player, but more a luxury/need pick than a home run pick. Of course my fellow Charlotte fans are so thirsty for a big man with skill they still believe in Wiseman

[HotelVitale]

It's just people being terrified because of the Wiggins trauma, but the two are worlds apart, as Wiggins is an athlete first and foremost, while Edwards is a hooper 1st and foremost. I'm afraid this stupid Wolves fan talk gets to the team and Edwards, because he's doing exactly what he should be doing if we want him to become the best player he could possibly be. The kind of freedom Edwards has right now is the same kind of freedom guys like Mitchell, Trae or Doncic had in their rookie seasons, and look at them now.

I think it's just the realgm thing where people want to rationalize draft success/failure and make it about something controllable and that makes sense in their daily lives, like will or heart or determination or whatever. Some people just have the ability and can play fast, learn fast, develop all sort of news things, etc, while others learn how to be competent and do everything basically correct but don't develop all sorts of advanced (and extremely difficult) things. No one screwed up Wiggins, he just can't do anything very effectively in the NBA besides take a couple dribbles and volume shoot jumpers. And no one whispered some sort of Mr Miyagi magic words to Donovan Mitchell or Devin Booker or other NBA steals--they were just better suited to the NBA game than anyone could've known, and they've had the ability to keep developing every new thing they need to since then. Not because they're working harder than 90% of NBA players but just because they have that ability that's pretty much impossible to identify before people have shown it.

There's also a small minority of NBA prospect who shoot themselves in the foot and flames out--and then half of realgm takes those famous exceptions as evidence that some 'want' it and some don't, or some other cliche that makes the whole thing much more simple (and moral) than it is.

[oldshoolballer]

Watch on YouTube

Lamelo ROY by a mile. His defense has been an unexpected surprise.

[KembaWalker]

that pass to Rozier..kid is incredible

[AbeVigodaLive]

Another awful perfomance... But the statline is there again
21pts, 6reb, 1stl, 2blk for Edwards
This way of the Timberwolves develop young guys is crazy man. Instead of held accountable this guys because of the consistently poor play. We give them freedom to create bad habits after bad habits. So Timberwolves.

I hear you but I think this is a false narrative, or rather a greatly simplified one. Higher-level basketball is about developing instincts and having people execute the right thing without thinking; none of that is just academic or abstract learning, it has to come 100% in the feel and general flow of the game. If you pull him every time he misses a couple shots in a row, he may understand 'oh it's bad to miss shots' but he's not understanding how to, like, get better at making shots, which is what you want him to do.

I'm watching this full play vid of all the shots, rebounds, fouls etc involving Edwards and, while he makes a lot of mistakes, none of them are just flat out 'you can't do that in the NBA, kiddo!' type decisions. He's just figuring out what he can and can't get away with in the NBA. It's a mystery why some players can learn that well and others can't, but players have to learn it on the go and nothing's gained by them riding the pine. And while it's frustrating there's no way to just say 'darn it you're gonna LEARN' and force someone to make incredibly fast and difficult things second nature. (Note the editing in the last half of the vid is jumpy).

Thank you thank you thank you. This is what I've been trying to explain to the Wolves fans so many times this year. Everything he does is a never a dumb basketball play, his mistakes are the kind of mistakes I have very little issue with.

Like in the video you provided, all of his missed shots are either sensible attempts at attacking the rim and semi-open or open 3pt shots either by spotting up or shooting off the dribble because the defender sagged off. His turnovers are pretty much all him attacking the rim and getting stripped or attempting to make a pass that makes sense.

In this failed season for the Wolves, I'd never want to bench a 19 year old rookie with potential to be elite at driving and shooting 3s by spotting up or off the dribble, by benching him for trying to figure out how to be effective at driving and shooting 3s. He's not terrible defensively either, so he doesn't ruin team defense.

It's just people being terrified because of the Wiggins trauma, but the two are worlds apart, as Wiggins is an athlete first and foremost, while Edwards is a hooper 1st and foremost.

I'm afraid this stupid Wolves fan talk gets to the team and Edwards, because he's doing exactly what he should be doing if we want him to become the best player he could possibly be.

The kind of freedom Edwards has right now is the same kind of freedom guys like Mitchell, Trae or Doncic had in their rookie seasons, and look at them now.

The Timberwolves have a storied history where there's a lack of accountability. A storied history of young promising players posting great volume stats on poor efficiency for bad teams. And not just bad teams... the very worst teams in the NBA.

And then rewarding those players with heaps of praise, adoration, more responsibility... and money.

And they're doing it again. I don't think Edwards has to be benched. And with what the Wolves are trotting out there right now offensively... they need him desperately at times. The rub is that he's playing with bad players. Bad players who don't know how to play NBA basketball. And he's being put in situations where he needs to "get his" at times.

We can talk about all the stuff he's learning with the big minutes. But there's a lot of bad stuff to be learned in a tanking season for a tanking organization with a history of tanking. What's often learned from bad players and bad coaches on a bad team? Bad habits.

So by all means Timberwolves... throw the young, raw and talented Edwards to the proverbial wolves... it's worked out so well the last time. And the time before that... and the time before that...




[Note: Going into this season, two things were clear. (1) The Wolves lacked any two-way players. Imagine the craziness that Towns is clearly the team's best two way player. (2) The Wolves lacked guys who knew how to play NBA basketball... and had legit experience on winning teams. Tough environment for an enticing, promising but raw rookie.]

[HotelVitale]

The Timberwolves have a storied history where there's a lack of accountability. A storied history of young promising players posting great volume stats on poor efficiency for bad teams. And not just bad teams... the very worst teams in the NBA.... a tanking season for a tanking organization with a history of tanking. What's often learned from bad players and bad coaches on a bad team? Bad habits. So by all means Timberwolves... throw the young, raw and talented Edwards to the proverbial wolves... it's worked out so well the last time. And the time before that... and the time before that...

I don't know enough about the Wolves' internal stuff over the past 15 years or so to comment well on this but I will offer two possible alternative perspectives:
--In this 'storied history' you're talking about the Wolves haven't been a static entity at all but rather have constantly changed coaches, GMs, staffers, etc; so instead of seeing a simple pattern there, isn't it possible that they just happened to draft a series of players who had some promise but weren't quite up to being great NBA players (like 75% of NBA draft picks)? Hence the narrative that the 'Wolves' are somehow responsible is just an error of perspective, and it's just been a handful of competent coaches and staffs not getting quite the right players?
--Plenty of the players and coaches you're calling 'bad players' and 'bad coaches' who are teaching these supposed losing habits do just fine on other teams. Thibodeau, Adelman, D Casey, McHale, etc have all failed to get the Wolves far but have done solid work elsewhere and in some cases have been pretty big difference makers. And many players who were important/key guys for the Wolves went on to contribute positively to good cultures on other teams. So again, isn't it possible that the Wolves never managed to get a winning squad together because they just never found particularly good+compatible talent, rather than attributing their lack of success to 'culture' that a series of leaders failed to instill?
EDIT: bonus one: how many times do we have to see really good players play mistake-ridden and inefficient ball as rookies, on teams fresh from tanking, before we stop making the assumption that 'rookie accountability' is a major factor in any of this? Isn't it possible that rookie accountability or tanking 'culture' doesn't effect destiny that much, and that the rookies' ability to learn and develop how to be effective in the NBA comes down more to tangible, natural, biological stuff than it does to airy things like 'culture'? (Sidenote that it always strikes me as odd that NBA fans think there's something simple a team can do to win--like create a 'good culture' or 'invest in quality scouting'--that GMs in a billion-dollar, extremely high profile industry aren't doing out of laziness or something.)

[FinnTheHuman]

The Timberwolves have a storied history where there's a lack of accountability. A storied history of young promising players posting great volume stats on poor efficiency for bad teams. And not just bad teams... the very worst teams in the NBA.... a tanking season for a tanking organization with a history of tanking. What's often learned from bad players and bad coaches on a bad team? Bad habits. So by all means Timberwolves... throw the young, raw and talented Edwards to the proverbial wolves... it's worked out so well the last time. And the time before that... and the time before that...

I don't know enough about the Wolves' internal stuff over the past 15 years or so to comment well on this but I will offer two possible alternative perspectives:
--In this 'storied history' you're talking about the Wolves haven't been a static entity at all but rather have constantly changed coaches, GMs, staffers, etc; so instead of seeing a simple pattern there, isn't it possible that they just happened to draft a series of players who had some promise but weren't quite up to being great NBA players (like 75% of NBA draft picks)? Hence the narrative that the 'Wolves' are somehow responsible is just an error of perspective, and it's just been a handful of competent coaches and staffs not getting quite the right players?
--Plenty of the players and coaches you're calling 'bad players' and 'bad coaches' who are teaching these supposed losing habits do just fine on other teams. Thibodeau, Adelman, D Casey, McHale, etc have all failed to get the Wolves far but have done solid work elsewhere and in some cases have been pretty big difference makers. And many players who were important/key guys for the Wolves went on to contribute positively to good cultures on other teams. So again, isn't it possible that the Wolves never managed to get a winning squad together because they just never found particularly good+compatible talent, rather than attributing their lack of success to 'culture' that a series of leaders failed to instill?
EDIT: bonus one: how many times do we have to see really good players play mistake-ridden and inefficient ball as rookies, on teams fresh from tanking, before we stop making the assumption that 'rookie accountability' is a major factor in any of this? Isn't it possible that rookie accountability or tanking 'culture' doesn't effect destiny that much, and that the rookies' ability to learn and develop how to be effective in the NBA comes down more to tangible, natural, biological stuff than it does to airy things like 'culture'? (Sidenote that it always strikes me as odd that NBA fans think there's something simple a team can do to win--like create a 'good culture' or 'invest in quality scouting'--that GMs in a billion-dollar, extremely high profile industry aren't doing out of laziness or something.)

Agreed on pretty much everything, I don't think Wolves ever had a "culture" problem, just never had good enough rosters to win, both because of draft misses and disadvantageous position in the free agency. No coaching staff can make or break a potential star except if the guy doesn't get enough minutes to adapt to the nba.

[brutalitops]

I hear you but I think this is a false narrative, or rather a greatly simplified one. Higher-level basketball is about developing instincts and having people execute the right thing without thinking; none of that is just academic or abstract learning, it has to come 100% in the feel and general flow of the game. If you pull him every time he misses a couple shots in a row, he may understand 'oh it's bad to miss shots' but he's not understanding how to, like, get better at making shots, which is what you want him to do.

I'm watching this full play vid of all the shots, rebounds, fouls etc involving Edwards and, while he makes a lot of mistakes, none of them are just flat out 'you can't do that in the NBA, kiddo!' type decisions. He's just figuring out what he can and can't get away with in the NBA. It's a mystery why some players can learn that well and others can't, but players have to learn it on the go and nothing's gained by them riding the pine. And while it's frustrating there's no way to just say 'darn it you're gonna LEARN' and force someone to make incredibly fast and difficult things second nature. (Note the editing in the last half of the vid is jumpy).

Thank you thank you thank you. This is what I've been trying to explain to the Wolves fans so many times this year. Everything he does is a never a dumb basketball play, his mistakes are the kind of mistakes I have very little issue with.

Like in the video you provided, all of his missed shots are either sensible attempts at attacking the rim and semi-open or open 3pt shots either by spotting up or shooting off the dribble because the defender sagged off. His turnovers are pretty much all him attacking the rim and getting stripped or attempting to make a pass that makes sense.

In this failed season for the Wolves, I'd never want to bench a 19 year old rookie with potential to be elite at driving and shooting 3s by spotting up or off the dribble, by benching him for trying to figure out how to be effective at driving and shooting 3s. He's not terrible defensively either, so he doesn't ruin team defense.

It's just people being terrified because of the Wiggins trauma, but the two are worlds apart, as Wiggins is an athlete first and foremost, while Edwards is a hooper 1st and foremost.

I'm afraid this stupid Wolves fan talk gets to the team and Edwards, because he's doing exactly what he should be doing if we want him to become the best player he could possibly be.

The kind of freedom Edwards has right now is the same kind of freedom guys like Mitchell, Trae or Doncic had in their rookie seasons, and look at them now.

The Timberwolves have a storied history where there's a lack of accountability. A storied history of young promising players posting great volume stats on poor efficiency for bad teams. And not just bad teams... the very worst teams in the NBA.

And then rewarding those players with heaps of praise, adoration, more responsibility... and money.

And they're doing it again. I don't think Edwards has to be benched. And with what the Wolves are trotting out there right now offensively... they need him desperately at times. The rub is that he's playing with bad players. Bad players who don't know how to play NBA basketball. And he's being put in situations where he needs to "get his" at times.

We can talk about all the stuff he's learning with the big minutes. But there's a lot of bad stuff to be learned in a tanking season for a tanking organization with a history of tanking. What's often learned from bad players and bad coaches on a bad team? Bad habits.

So by all means Timberwolves... throw the young, raw and talented Edwards to the proverbial wolves... it's worked out so well the last time. And the time before that... and the time before that...




[Note: Going into this season, two things were clear. (1) The Wolves lacked any two-way players. Imagine the craziness that Towns is clearly the team's best two way player. (2) The Wolves lacked guys who knew how to play NBA basketball... and had legit experience on winning teams. Tough environment for an enticing, promising but raw rookie.]

Hey man leave the honest truth out of it, it hurts.

I think he's been MUCH better paired with Towns/Rubio/Beasley/McLaughlan, You know, like the 4 NBA standard players on our list. When he was on the bench squad it was a dumpster fire and was letting him hit flat footed 3's...because there wasnt much more going for that group