NBA MVP Discussion 20/21 (Fresh poll ➥ Vote)

antonac · Post #1601 » by **antonac** » Wed Mar 3, 2021 2:35 pm

I feel it won't be long until it's impossible for anyone to catch Embiid or Jokic, then it all comes down to musing over the team records.

Currently right now it's Jokic, but even as stan I do think it's been wavering back and forward between the 2.

Openheimer · Post #1602 » by **Openheimer** » Wed Mar 3, 2021 2:37 pm

These losses are hurting Lebrons standing.

Right now

Jokic
Harden
Embiid
Giannis Or Kawhi
Lebron
Luka

scrabbarista · Post #1603 » by **scrabbarista** » Wed Mar 3, 2021 4:11 pm

scrabbarista wrote:
scrabbarista wrote:Jokic is now:

10th all-time in PER
11th all-time in WS/48
9th all-time in BPM

The only players above him in all three are:

'88 Jordan
'91 Jordan
'09 James
'13 James
'16 Curry

No Kareems, no Wilts, no Giannises - just those five.

If you know anything about NBA history, you know that's pretty good company.

Well, I spoke a day too soon on this one.

The entire list above Jokic in all three stats - in the history of the NBA - is now:

'09 James

...and the difference in PER is 0.02, and the difference in WS/48 is 0.0083.

And a day later, the list is zero.

Sgt Major · Post #1604 » by **Sgt Major** » Wed Mar 3, 2021 4:23 pm

Insanity

scrabbarista · Post #1605 » by **scrabbarista** » Wed Mar 3, 2021 4:26 pm

GSP wrote:Last 14 games for Jokic

29/10/9/2/1 and only 2 turnovers a game in 36 minutes a game........67ts. 141 Ortg

7.6 turnover % on a 29 usg% in the last 14 is NUTS. You can even extend it close to 20 games and hes hovering around 2 turnovers a game. Thats just inconceivable. Its prime Dirk level turnover economy but Jokic is passing the ball like Bird

Among the Top 15 in ORtg for the season, the other 14 players average a 12.9% AST%. Jokic (6th in ORtg) is at 40.2%. This combination of overall efficiency and play-making just doesn't happen.

scrabbarista · Post #1606 » by **scrabbarista** » Wed Mar 3, 2021 4:31 pm

GSP wrote:Last 14 games for Jokic

29/10/9/2/1 and only 2 turnovers a game in 36 minutes a game........67ts. 141 Ortg

7.6 turnover % on a 29 usg% in the last 14 is NUTS. You can even extend it close to 20 games and hes hovering around 2 turnovers a game. Thats just inconceivable. Its prime Dirk level turnover economy but Jokic is passing the ball like Bird

Michael Jordan's career playoff ratio is 35.6% USG% to a 9.4% TO%. That's in 179 games, not 14.

But he's kind of literally the GoAT, so... :lol:

... yeah... Jokic is incredible right now.

KyRo23 · Post #1607 » by **KyRo23** » Wed Mar 3, 2021 7:23 pm

Jokic has gotta be in the lead right now. I expect a strong push after ASB from LeBron. Hopefully he can get back to the top

Cavsfansince84 · Post #1608 » by **Cavsfansince84** » Wed Mar 3, 2021 9:17 pm

KyRo23 wrote:Jokic has gotta be in the lead right now. I expect a strong push after ASB from LeBron. Hopefully he can get back to the top

I agree that LeBron will prob turn it on over the final 20 or so games if both a 1 seed and mvp are within reach. He really needs AD to be back and playing like a top 10 player though to make life easier for him.

Cavsfansince84 · Post #1609 » by **Cavsfansince84** » Wed Mar 3, 2021 9:19 pm

antonac wrote:I feel it won't be long until it's impossible for anyone to catch Embiid or Jokic, then it all comes down to musing over the team records.

Currently right now it's Jokic, but even as stan I do think it's been wavering back and forward between the 2.

imo Jokic has been far more consistent. He's had 50pt triple double type games in losses. Embiid still has a lot of so so type games mixed in.

49erhokie827 · Post #1610 » by **49erhokie827** » Wed Mar 3, 2021 9:27 pm

Dario Saric should slowly be creeping into the MVP convo. Dude made Lebron want to take tonight off.

jokeboy86 · Post #1611 » by **jokeboy86** » Wed Mar 3, 2021 9:41 pm

I would have to imagine that Jokic is basically wiping Melo’s Nugget career from Denver fans memory, MIB style.

scrabbarista · Post #1612 » by **scrabbarista** » Wed Mar 3, 2021 9:50 pm

49erhokie827 wrote:Dario Saric should slowly be creeping into the MVP convo. Dude made Lebron want to take tonight off.

The Big Three of Saric, Johnson, and Nader was too much for the Big Three of James, Caldwell-Pope, and Morris down the stretch last night. I think James realized the extra rest was more important than going out and getting beat down by some backups again.

Sgt Major · Post #1613 » by **Sgt Major** » Wed Mar 3, 2021 10:31 pm

jokeboy86 wrote:I would have to imagine that Jokic is basically wiping Melo’s Nugget career from Denver fans memory, MIB style.

Read on Twitter

Post #1614 » by **HMFFL** » Wed Mar 3, 2021 10:57 pm

Sgt Major wrote:
jokeboy86 wrote:I would have to imagine that Jokic is basically wiping Melo’s Nugget career from Denver fans memory, MIB style.

Read on Twitter

Truly amazing!
I have Jokic #1. Stay healthy.

Sent from my SM-N975U using RealGM mobile app

BoatsNZones · Post #1615 » by **BoatsNZones** » Wed Mar 3, 2021 11:13 pm

As far as an all-in-one advanced stat to look at these days (I still would never look at just one, and you have to use discretion/role as need be), one that I never see mentioned here is the one that happens to be the best, imo. EPM, and more importantly their estimatedWins (eW) via EPM (from dunksandthrees). Studies have been done to show it's more reliable year over year than all of RPM, RAPTOR, BPM, WS, PER, PIPM, etc. https://dunksandthrees.com/blog/metric-comparison

Most of the site is behind a pay-wall, but they still have this years current numbers up, which by eW rate some notable players as:

1: Jokic (10.2)

2: Lebron (7.4)
3: Giannis (6.6)
4: Curry (6.4)
5: Luka (6.2)
6: Lillard (5.9)
T-7: Embiid (5.8)

9: Kawhi (5.7)
10: Gobert (5.4)

12: Harden (5.2)

20: Kyrie (4.5)
21: Middleton (4.3)
T-22: Simmons (4.2)

Offensively Jokic/Lillard/Curry are in a relative tie for first in EPM, Defensively Gobert is 1st and no other notables are in the top 25 (Jokic actually rates the highest of any MVP candidate).

All that to say, just another piece of evidence that Jokic is way ahead of the field in production this year. Just needs to get the Nuggets to HCA and it's his.

Post #1616 » by **Mavrelous** » Wed Mar 3, 2021 11:14 pm

Has there been a 2nd round pick MVP? I had to go back to Moses Malone who wasn't drafted in the NBA but the ABA, and lowest pick was Nash.

Dnt hate · Post #1617 » by **Dnt hate** » Wed Mar 3, 2021 11:57 pm

Embiid is definitely still in the lead with Jokic 2nd

Genjuro · Post #1618 » by **Genjuro** » Thu Mar 4, 2021 12:18 am

I'm not sure anybody has posted it yet, but Harden has popped out of nowhere on the Basketball Reference MVP Tracker and landed second behind Jokic:
1. Jokic - 50.6%
2. Harden - 13.9%
3. Embiid - 13.1%
4. Giannis - 7.2%
5. Lebron - 3.9%
6. Leonard - 3.6%

Also, I was checking some advanced stats, and since Jokic tops PER, WS, BPM and VORP, I was curious to check who did it before and whether he won the MVP award. Since the merger (in parentheses the MVP when it didn't match):
1977: Jabbar
1979: Jabbar (M. Malone)
1985: Bird
1986: Bird
1987: Jordan (Magic)
1988: Jordan
1989: Jordan (Magic)
1990: Jordan (Magic)
1991: Jordan
1992: Jordan
1993: Jordan (Barkley)
1994: Robinson (Olajuwon)
1995: Robinson
1996: Jordan
1997: Jordan (K. Malone)
2000: O'Neal
2004: Garnett
2005: Garnett (Nash)
2009: Lebron
2010: Lebron
2011: Lebron (Rose)
2012: Lebron
2013: Lebron
2014: Durant
2016: Curry

I don't know if it means that much, although the list of names makes kind of sense (well, I was only surprised to see Garnett in 2005 topping everything). Not sure how well some of these ratings are calculated for old seasons anyway.

BoatsNZones · Post #1619 » by **BoatsNZones** » Thu Mar 4, 2021 12:30 am

Genjuro wrote:I'm not sure anybody has posted it yet, but Harden has popped out of nowhere on the Basketball Reference MVP Tracker and landed second behind Jokic:
1. Jokic - 50.6%
2. Harden - 13.9%
3. Embiid - 13.1%
4. Giannis - 7.2%
5. Lebron - 3.9%
6. Leonard - 3.6%

Also, I was checking some advanced stats, and since Jokic tops PER, WS, BPM and VORP, I was curious to check who did it before and whether he won the MVP award. Since the merger (in parentheses the MVP when it didn't match):
1977: Jabbar
1979: Jabbar (M. Malone)
1985: Bird
1986: Bird
1987: Jordan (Magic)
1988: Jordan
1989: Jordan (Magic)
1990: Jordan (Magic)
1991: Jordan
1992: Jordan
1993: Jordan (Barkley)
1994: Robinson (Olajuwon)
1995: Robinson
1996: Jordan
1997: Jordan (K. Malone)
2000: O'Neal
2004: Garnett
2005: Garnett (Nash)
2009: Lebron
2010: Lebron
2011: Lebron (Rose)
2012: Lebron
2013: Lebron
2014: Durant
2016: Curry

I don't know if it means that much, although the list of names makes kind of sense (well, I was only surprised to see Garnett in 2005 topping everything). Not sure how well some of these ratings are calculated for old seasons anyway.

All I see when I look at this is that Jordan is the GOAT (no ****) and Jokic has a massive chasm over the field.

eminence · Post #1620 » by **eminence** » Thu Mar 4, 2021 12:35 am

KhalilS wrote:Has there been a 2nd round pick MVP? I had to go back to Moses Malone who wasn't drafted in the NBA but the ABA, and lowest pick was Nash.

Willis Reed was the 1st pick of the 2nd round back when there were 9 teams in the league (#10 overall).

Nash/Giannis are tied for the lowest pick at 15th.

Who is the MVP so far?