NBA MVP Discussion 20/21 (Fresh poll ➥ Vote)

[Hello Brooklyn]

Harden was unable to lead Houston to even be a fringie playoff team, not 50% in the west, he forces a trade to super-team in the east and he is in front of Jokic. So if Jokic forces a trade to LA clippers/Lakers/Jazz he is unanimous MVP?
BTW Jokic beats Harden in every existing stat and the ones that will be made in the future.

The Nets were not a top seed until Harden got there. They were only a few games above .500.

Jokic is not on a top team. Who cares about stats if you're not winning. Thats not how the MVP works.

Harden could easily put up 35 pts plus if he wanted.

How MVP works? Force a trade to super-team and be MVP if you can not lead your team to 50%.
Harden was putting up 35 and that is the reason why Houston crumbled at the end. Couldn't share a flour with CP3 who is ultimate winner but wanted his friend Westbrick. He basically buried Houston and left.
BTW Joker is averaging 27.3/11/8.6/1.7/0.7 on 56.9/41.7/88.5
Harden is averaging 25.3/7.8/11.1/1.2/0.7 on 48.4/40.1/85.9
So to be in the Jokers league he first needs to become a little bit better 3 pt shooter and free throw shooter, to start with, and then everything else.

Lol doesn't matter. Brooklyn's record with Harden is excellent.

Jokic has never lead the Nuggets to the type of record the Nets have with Harden.

You don't get MVP for being on a slightly above average team. Sorry.

[BelgradeNugget]

The Nets were not a top seed until Harden got there. They were only a few games above .500.

Jokic is not on a top team. Who cares about stats if you're not winning. Thats not how the MVP works.

Harden could easily put up 35 pts plus if he wanted.

How MVP works? Force a trade to super-team and be MVP if you can not lead your team to 50%.
Harden was putting up 35 and that is the reason why Houston crumbled at the end. Couldn't share a flour with CP3 who is ultimate winner but wanted his friend Westbrick. He basically buried Houston and left.
BTW Joker is averaging 27.3/11/8.6/1.7/0.7 on 56.9/41.7/88.5
Harden is averaging 25.3/7.8/11.1/1.2/0.7 on 48.4/40.1/85.9
So to be in the Jokers league he first needs to become a little bit better 3 pt shooter and free throw shooter, to start with, and then everything else.

Lol doesn't matter. Brooklyn's record with Harden is excellent.

Jokic has never lead the Nuggets to the type of record the Nets have with Harden.

You don't get MVP for being on a slightly above average team. Sorry.

He has led his team to a better record than Harden's Houston, in the west, for the 3 years in the row. But as we know MVP never goes to a player that switches teams in the middle of the season.
Sorry

[dygaction]

Yesterdays win further justifies Lillards case for mvp over Curry. He has done more with less his entire career while Curry had Klay Durant Draymond.

Curry outplays Lillard every season and virtually every time they play, including last night despite a great shot from Dame (no clue why he was single-teamed in ISO, God knows Curry would never get that treatment). Lillard had his chance for the umpteenth time against Curry the last time they met in the playoffs (KD freshly out, Klay unable to hit the side of a barn), and Curry eviscerated him as he always does (37/8/7 on 47/44/94 to Lillard's 22/5/8.5 on 37/37/89). At that point people were clamoring that Lillard>Curry as well. But then he got swept and put in his place, again. Don't bring that nonsense in here.

As for MVP, Jokic with a chance to make up some more ground in the standings with a win over the Pacers tonight. Again, all he's missing is the seeding (their SRS is up to 5th in the NBA at this point). He's been both the clear best player and isn't sitting a game out. Going through the grind.

Lillard is poor man's Curry who has been often put on spot light for his clutch performance. Clutch is good, but Curry put out a much more consistent performance and raise the floor higher so you do not have to deal with so many last sec shots.

[Kurtz]

The Nets were not a top seed until Harden got there. They were only a few games above .500.

Jokic is not on a top team. Who cares about stats if you're not winning. Thats not how the MVP works.

Harden could easily put up 35 pts plus if he wanted.

How MVP works? Force a trade to super-team and be MVP if you can not lead your team to 50%.
Harden was putting up 35 and that is the reason why Houston crumbled at the end. Couldn't share a flour with CP3 who is ultimate winner but wanted his friend Westbrick. He basically buried Houston and left.
BTW Joker is averaging 27.3/11/8.6/1.7/0.7 on 56.9/41.7/88.5
Harden is averaging 25.3/7.8/11.1/1.2/0.7 on 48.4/40.1/85.9
So to be in the Jokers league he first needs to become a little bit better 3 pt shooter and free throw shooter, to start with, and then everything else.

Lol doesn't matter. Brooklyn's record with Harden is excellent.

Jokic has never lead the Nuggets to the type of record the Nets have with Harden.

You don't get MVP for being on a slightly above average team. Sorry.

A couple of things:

1) Westbrook showed that you can win an MVP on a slightly above average team
2) Denver is 20-15 and when all is said and done will have a winning percentage around 60%. That is better than slightly above average.
3) Historically, playing next to KD has robbed players of their MVP chances. Curry was winning MVPs before Durant got to GSW. Westbrook won MVP after Durant left. When Durant is playing, it is difficult to say that he's not the best player on the team.

[taufblazers33]

Yesterdays win further justifies Lillards case for mvp over Curry. He has done more with less his entire career while Curry had Klay Durant Draymond.

Curry outplays Lillard every season and virtually every time they play, including last night despite a great shot from Dame (no clue why he was single-teamed in ISO, God knows Curry would never get that treatment). Lillard had his chance for the umpteenth time against Curry the last time they met in the playoffs (KD freshly out, Klay unable to hit the side of a barn), and Curry eviscerated him as he always does (37/8/7 on 47/44/94 to Lillard's 22/5/8.5 on 37/37/89). At that point people were clamoring that Lillard>Curry as well. But then he got swept and put in his place, again. Don't bring that nonsense in here.

As for MVP, Jokic with a chance to make up some more ground in the standings with a win over the Pacers tonight. Again, all he's missing is the seeding (their SRS is up to 5th in the NBA at this point). He's been both the clear best player and isn't sitting a game out. Going through the grind.

Lillard is poor man's Curry who has been often put on spot light for his clutch performance. Clutch is good, but Curry put out a much more consistent performance and raise the floor higher so you do not have to deal with so many last sec shots.

Lillard has had to play with Whiteside/Harkless/Aminu/Hejona/no back pg/ while Curry has had Durant/Draymond/Klay. that's 2 freaking superstars and 1 all star.

come at me bro. dont come in here with your Curry bias. I agree he's GOAT in terms of shooting. But Curry has had an easier path. What has he done without those 3? sit last year out? (faked it) and this year they are barely in the playoff picture.

lillard>curry

[dygaction]

Curry outplays Lillard every season and virtually every time they play, including last night despite a great shot from Dame (no clue why he was single-teamed in ISO, God knows Curry would never get that treatment). Lillard had his chance for the umpteenth time against Curry the last time they met in the playoffs (KD freshly out, Klay unable to hit the side of a barn), and Curry eviscerated him as he always does (37/8/7 on 47/44/94 to Lillard's 22/5/8.5 on 37/37/89). At that point people were clamoring that Lillard>Curry as well. But then he got swept and put in his place, again. Don't bring that nonsense in here.

As for MVP, Jokic with a chance to make up some more ground in the standings with a win over the Pacers tonight. Again, all he's missing is the seeding (their SRS is up to 5th in the NBA at this point). He's been both the clear best player and isn't sitting a game out. Going through the grind.

Lillard is poor man's Curry who has been often put on spot light for his clutch performance. Clutch is good, but Curry put out a much more consistent performance and raise the floor higher so you do not have to deal with so many last sec shots.

Lillard has had to play with Whiteside/Harkless/Aminu/Hejona/no back pg/ while Curry has had Durant/Draymond/Klay. that's 2 freaking superstars and 1 all star.

come at me bro. dont come in here with your Curry bias. I agree he's GOAT in terms of shooting. But Curry has had an easier path. What has he done without those 3? sit last year out? (faked it) and this year they are barely in the playoff picture.

lillard>curry

He developed with Klay and Draymond. He defeated Durant so Durant joined. Lillard had several years and he is no where close to peak Curry's level. This year they are close but if you think Lillard was better yesterday due to the last min bail out shot and ignore the whole game, then you need to watch the whole game.

[Hello Brooklyn]

How MVP works? Force a trade to super-team and be MVP if you can not lead your team to 50%.
Harden was putting up 35 and that is the reason why Houston crumbled at the end. Couldn't share a flour with CP3 who is ultimate winner but wanted his friend Westbrick. He basically buried Houston and left.
BTW Joker is averaging 27.3/11/8.6/1.7/0.7 on 56.9/41.7/88.5
Harden is averaging 25.3/7.8/11.1/1.2/0.7 on 48.4/40.1/85.9
So to be in the Jokers league he first needs to become a little bit better 3 pt shooter and free throw shooter, to start with, and then everything else.

Lol doesn't matter. Brooklyn's record with Harden is excellent.

Jokic has never lead the Nuggets to the type of record the Nets have with Harden.

You don't get MVP for being on a slightly above average team. Sorry.

He has led his team to a better record than Harden's Houston, in the west, for the 3 years in the row. But as we know MVP never goes to a player that switches teams in the middle of the season.
Sorry

Lol youre obsessed with a 15 game sample size on the worst team in the league.

Nobody has been in position to win MVP after switching team so thats irrelevent.

[the_process]

It’s a two man race right now for MVP, and neither of those two are Harden or Jokic.

[scrabbarista]

A word of caution when looking at On-Off and similar "impact" stats. Players (e.g., Embiid) who miss games have their numbers inflated by the fact that their team is forced to face the opposing team's starters without them. The more games a player misses, especially against good teams (again, Embiid), the more likely he is to benefit from this phenomenon. A similar phenomenon occurs with players who don't miss games, but often play against opposing benches (e.g., James).

When a player never misses any games and rarely plays against opposing benches - like Jokic, for example - his raw On-Off numbers are going to be deflated, relative to players who do those two things.

So, while Embiid was resting as Jokic (+24) and the Nuggets cruised past his team, Embiid's "impact numbers" were going up. Same thing when the Jazz beat PHI by double digits. This kind of thing - the element of leaving your team to face opposing starters without you - is one of the reasons I tend to err on the side of total production when I evaluate MVP candidates, though I do also factor in On-Off and OnCourt numbers.

[Statlanta]

You know you got a good MVP candidate when it’s more controversial when he loses (DEN vs. WAS) than when he wins (PHI vs. UTAH)

[eyeatoma]

How MVP works? Force a trade to super-team and be MVP if you can not lead your team to 50%.
Harden was putting up 35 and that is the reason why Houston crumbled at the end. Couldn't share a flour with CP3 who is ultimate winner but wanted his friend Westbrick. He basically buried Houston and left.
BTW Joker is averaging 27.3/11/8.6/1.7/0.7 on 56.9/41.7/88.5
Harden is averaging 25.3/7.8/11.1/1.2/0.7 on 48.4/40.1/85.9
So to be in the Jokers league he first needs to become a little bit better 3 pt shooter and free throw shooter, to start with, and then everything else.

Lol doesn't matter. Brooklyn's record with Harden is excellent.

Jokic has never lead the Nuggets to the type of record the Nets have with Harden.

You don't get MVP for being on a slightly above average team. Sorry.

A couple of things:

1) Westbrook showed that you can win an MVP on a slightly above average team
2) Denver is 20-15 and when all is said and done will have a winning percentage around 60%. That is better than slightly above average.
3) Historically, playing next to KD has robbed players of their MVP chances. Curry was winning MVPs before Durant got to GSW. Westbrook won MVP after Durant left. When Durant is playing, it is difficult to say that he's not the best player on the team.

Westbrook had a satirical outlier of a season. Jokic is having one too, but to a lesser degree. HIs peer in Embiid is having an equally dominant season sans the assist. Regardless of the Nuggets playing in the west, that is not how the media votes. Vegas knows how the media votes, and they have Embiid and Lebron as the favorites right now (tied at +225). Jokic is next at +450. So it's close, but currently Embiid is in the lead.

[Hello Brooklyn]

How MVP works? Force a trade to super-team and be MVP if you can not lead your team to 50%.
Harden was putting up 35 and that is the reason why Houston crumbled at the end. Couldn't share a flour with CP3 who is ultimate winner but wanted his friend Westbrick. He basically buried Houston and left.
BTW Joker is averaging 27.3/11/8.6/1.7/0.7 on 56.9/41.7/88.5
Harden is averaging 25.3/7.8/11.1/1.2/0.7 on 48.4/40.1/85.9
So to be in the Jokers league he first needs to become a little bit better 3 pt shooter and free throw shooter, to start with, and then everything else.

Lol doesn't matter. Brooklyn's record with Harden is excellent.

Jokic has never lead the Nuggets to the type of record the Nets have with Harden.

You don't get MVP for being on a slightly above average team. Sorry.

A couple of things:

1) Westbrook showed that you can win an MVP on a slightly above average team
2) Denver is 20-15 and when all is said and done will have a winning percentage around 60%. That is better than slightly above average.
3) Historically, playing next to KD has robbed players of their MVP chances. Curry was winning MVPs before Durant got to GSW. Westbrook won MVP after Durant left. When Durant is playing, it is difficult to say that he's not the best player on the team.

Westbrook's MVP was an anomaly that was based entirely on him averaging a Triple Double. I think most people will look back at that vote as foolish.

20-15 as others have said is a 47 win pace. Not good enough.

KD isn't playing right now. We will see how KD coming back will impact the MVP race.

I still think Embiid probably wins it.

[Sgt Major]

The Nets were not a top seed until Harden got there. They were only a few games above .500.

Jokic is not on a top team. Who cares about stats if you're not winning. Thats not how the MVP works.

Harden could easily put up 35 pts plus if he wanted.

How MVP works? Force a trade to super-team and be MVP if you can not lead your team to 50%.
Harden was putting up 35 and that is the reason why Houston crumbled at the end. Couldn't share a flour with CP3 who is ultimate winner but wanted his friend Westbrick. He basically buried Houston and left.
BTW Joker is averaging 27.3/11/8.6/1.7/0.7 on 56.9/41.7/88.5
Harden is averaging 25.3/7.8/11.1/1.2/0.7 on 48.4/40.1/85.9
So to be in the Jokers league he first needs to become a little bit better 3 pt shooter and free throw shooter, to start with, and then everything else.

Lol doesn't matter. Brooklyn's record with Harden is excellent.

Jokic has never lead the Nuggets to the type of record the Nets have with Harden.

You don't get MVP for being on a slightly above average team. Sorry.

Lol what? The Nuggets were 2nd in the West at the end of the regular season two years ago with 0.659 record.

[scrabbarista]

To those citing precendence ("only Westbrook's team was a low seed, and all other MVP's have been on top seeds," etc., etc.), I would remind you...

that Bbref's MVP Tracker is based purely on precedence,

and it currently has Jokic as more than 3x as likely to win as Embiid (49.0% to 14.7%) if the Award were given out today.

In fact, Jokic has a higher percentage than the next eight candidates combined.

Jokic averages more than 2.5x as many APG as Embiid and still averages fewer TO's. Jokic shoots better from two, from three, and from the line, even with Embiid annihilating his own career highs in all three. People need to stop pretending like Embiid is on the same level as Jokic as an offensive player. It isn't close.

[Kurtz]

Lol doesn't matter. Brooklyn's record with Harden is excellent.

Jokic has never lead the Nuggets to the type of record the Nets have with Harden.

You don't get MVP for being on a slightly above average team. Sorry.

A couple of things:

1) Westbrook showed that you can win an MVP on a slightly above average team
2) Denver is 20-15 and when all is said and done will have a winning percentage around 60%. That is better than slightly above average.
3) Historically, playing next to KD has robbed players of their MVP chances. Curry was winning MVPs before Durant got to GSW. Westbrook won MVP after Durant left. When Durant is playing, it is difficult to say that he's not the best player on the team.

Westbrook had a satirical outlier of a season. Jokic is having one too, but to a lesser degree. HIs peer in Embiid is having an equally dominant season sans the assist. Regardless of the Nuggets playing in the west, that is not how the media votes. Vegas knows how the media votes, and they have Embiid and Lebron as the favorites right now (tied at +225). Jokic is next at +450. So it's close, but currently Embiid is in the lead.

Hmm, at this juncture the betting lines move drastically every couple of days. I'm checking Bet365 right now, and the gap between Lebron and Embiid has tightened - Lebron is at +185 and Embiid at +220 with Joker +450. Two days ago, Lebron was +150 and Embiid +400. I think Joker presents the best betting value out of the 3.

[Hello Brooklyn]

How MVP works? Force a trade to super-team and be MVP if you can not lead your team to 50%.
Harden was putting up 35 and that is the reason why Houston crumbled at the end. Couldn't share a flour with CP3 who is ultimate winner but wanted his friend Westbrick. He basically buried Houston and left.
BTW Joker is averaging 27.3/11/8.6/1.7/0.7 on 56.9/41.7/88.5
Harden is averaging 25.3/7.8/11.1/1.2/0.7 on 48.4/40.1/85.9
So to be in the Jokers league he first needs to become a little bit better 3 pt shooter and free throw shooter, to start with, and then everything else.

Lol doesn't matter. Brooklyn's record with Harden is excellent.

Jokic has never lead the Nuggets to the type of record the Nets have with Harden.

You don't get MVP for being on a slightly above average team. Sorry.

Lol what? The Nuggets were 2nd in the West at the end of the regular season two years ago with 0.659 record.

I'm talking about this season lol

Why would other seasons matter for this MVP race?

[eyeatoma]

A couple of things:

1) Westbrook showed that you can win an MVP on a slightly above average team
2) Denver is 20-15 and when all is said and done will have a winning percentage around 60%. That is better than slightly above average.
3) Historically, playing next to KD has robbed players of their MVP chances. Curry was winning MVPs before Durant got to GSW. Westbrook won MVP after Durant left. When Durant is playing, it is difficult to say that he's not the best player on the team.

Westbrook had a satirical outlier of a season. Jokic is having one too, but to a lesser degree. HIs peer in Embiid is having an equally dominant season sans the assist. Regardless of the Nuggets playing in the west, that is not how the media votes. Vegas knows how the media votes, and they have Embiid and Lebron as the favorites right now (tied at +225). Jokic is next at +450. So it's close, but currently Embiid is in the lead.

Hmm, at this juncture the betting lines move drastically every couple of days. I'm checking Bet365 right now, and the gap between Lebron and Embiid has tightened - Lebron is at +185 and Embiid at +220 with Joker +450. Two days ago, Lebron was +150 and Embiid +400. I think Joker presents the best betting value out of the 3.

My second point is the media. Most recently the media has Embiid as the leader at the moment. It's surprising because Jokic is way better than LeBron, but the media's slobberfest with LeBron has him second.

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[BelgradeNugget]

To those citing precendence ("only Westbrook's team was a low seed, and all other MVP's have been on top seeds," etc., etc.), I would remind you...

that Bbref's MVP Tracker is based purely on precedence,

and it currently has Jokic as more than 3x as likely to win as Embiid (49.0% to 14.7%) if the Award were given out today.

In fact, Jokic has a higher percentage than the next eight candidates combined.

Jokic averages more than 2.5x as many APG as Embiid and still averages fewer TO's. Jokic shoots better from two, from three, and from the line, even with Embiid annihilating his own career highs in all three. People need to stop pretending like Embiid is on the same level as Jokic as an offensive player. It isn't close.

The thing when people compare them offensively is they look at assist numbers, and talk about passing. Nobody is talking about playmaking. And comparing Jokic's playmaking to Embiid's or any other Center in the history of the league, is like comparing Stokton to Dennis Smith JR or MCW or Frank Ntilikina ...
And again I think Embiid is 1st in the race right now thanks to 76ers record.

[Johnny Tomala]

I voted Jokić when the poll was made and still would pick him. I think it will be tough for him to win - he is not playing for big market team and he is from Serbia. Media bias will play a role.

[BelgradeNugget]

Lol doesn't matter. Brooklyn's record with Harden is excellent.

Jokic has never lead the Nuggets to the type of record the Nets have with Harden.

You don't get MVP for being on a slightly above average team. Sorry.

Lol what? The Nuggets were 2nd in the West at the end of the regular season two years ago with 0.659 record.

I'm talking about this season lol

Why would other seasons matter for this MVP race?

man just stop