Trade Talk (Part Six)

[shrink]

If you trade Towns, we wouldn't want Gordon and he is less valuable and would take a desperate team to get value back or we lost Beasley for nothing

I agree with this way of thinking for trades. The fact that we traded for Russell makes KAT and Russell both less likely to be traded. Gordon is similar, but if the trade board is any indicator, there are other teams interested in him.

With Gordon, I think there is still a chance that he improves his trade value. We could offer him an extension soon I believe, and he is not going to command a max deal. Perhaps that deal becomes a good one with trade value, just like the Malik deal. So using Malik now would be cashing that value.

That said, let me be clear. Malik has more trade value than Gordon, and he has a better chance to increase his trade value. If a deal had Malik and Gordon in it, I’d expect there to be more in the deal, and that MIN would get assets.

[SO_MONEY]

If you trade Towns, we wouldn't want Gordon and he is less valuable and would take a desperate team to get value back or we lost Beasley for nothing

I agree with this way of thinking for trades. The fact that we traded for Russell makes KAT and Russell both less likely to be traded. Gordon is similar, but if the trade board is any indicator, there are other teams interested in him.

With Gordon, I think there is still a chance that he improves his trade value. We could offer him an extension soon I believe, and he is not going to command a max deal. Perhaps that deal becomes a good one with trade value, just like the Malik deal. So using Malik now would be cashing that value.

That said, let me be clear. Malik has more trade value than Gordon, and he has a better chance to increase his trade value. If a deal had Malik and Gordon in it, I’d expect there to be more in the deal, and that MIN would get assets.

ORL really doesn't have assets.

[SO_MONEY]

DP

[MartinsIzAfraud]

If you trade Towns, we wouldn't want Gordon and he is less valuable and would take a desperate team to get value back or we lost Beasley for nothing

I agree with this way of thinking for trades. The fact that we traded for Russell makes KAT and Russell both less likely to be traded. Gordon is similar, but if the trade board is any indicator, there are other teams interested in him.

With Gordon, I think there is still a chance that he improves his trade value. We could offer him an extension soon I believe, and he is not going to command a max deal. Perhaps that deal becomes a good one with trade value, just like the Malik deal. So using Malik now would be cashing that value.

That said, let me be clear. Malik has more trade value than Gordon, and he has a better chance to increase his trade value. If a deal had Malik and Gordon in it, I’d expect there to be more in the deal, and that MIN would get assets.

ORL really doesn't have assets.

no assets to be had, yup it's why your FO has continued to sniff around AG for a year or so.

[SO_MONEY]

I agree with this way of thinking for trades. The fact that we traded for Russell makes KAT and Russell both less likely to be traded. Gordon is similar, but if the trade board is any indicator, there are other teams interested in him.

With Gordon, I think there is still a chance that he improves his trade value. We could offer him an extension soon I believe, and he is not going to command a max deal. Perhaps that deal becomes a good one with trade value, just like the Malik deal. So using Malik now would be cashing that value.

That said, let me be clear. Malik has more trade value than Gordon, and he has a better chance to increase his trade value. If a deal had Malik and Gordon in it, I’d expect there to be more in the deal, and that MIN would get assets.

ORL really doesn't have assets.

no assets to be had, yup it's why your FO has continued to sniff around AG for a year or so.

*sigh*

IN ADDITION TO GORDON!

There are assets ORL has, but they won't trade them. So there are no assets to balance the value difference between Beasley and Gordon. Bamba is the closest, but what does he really do for a team that has Towns and Reid (really cheap)? So, like I said NO assets.

[shrink]

ORL really doesn't have assets.

no assets to be had, yup it's why your FO has continued to sniff around AG for a year or so.

*sigh*

IN ADDITION TO GORDON!

There are assets ORL has, but they won't trade them. So there are no assets to balance the value difference between Beasley and Gordon. Bamba is the closest, but what does he really do for a team that has Towns and Reid (really cheap)? So, like I said NO assets.

Right. But the idea was to span the gap between Malik and Gordon, by using Fournier’s mediocre expiring for Rubio’s negative deal.

However, I get the feeling lately that I may be over-estimating how negative Rubio’s deal is, because there seem to be fans of several different teams that would take it on for nothing. Then the gap between Rubio and Fournier is small, and the deal doesn’t provide enough value to MIN.

Now, if ORL was willing to take on a truly negative deal like D’Angelo Russell, I’d be all ears. However, I don’t think that’s realistic for either front office right now.

[Jedzz]

Imagine my surprise. Beasley and Dlo are all the trade talks now. Same characters. Same story.

Everyone noticed what this team has looked like without them, right? Your return for sending these guys away better be special and immediately correct this mess. They better be able to shoot well.

Can't wait until they heap all the eggs into this Edwards basket for the next 4 years. We are so screwed.

[SO_MONEY]

no assets to be had, yup it's why your FO has continued to sniff around AG for a year or so.

*sigh*

IN ADDITION TO GORDON!

There are assets ORL has, but they won't trade them. So there are no assets to balance the value difference between Beasley and Gordon. Bamba is the closest, but what does he really do for a team that has Towns and Reid (really cheap)? So, like I said NO assets.

Right. But the idea was to span the gap between Malik and Gordon, by using Fournier’s mediocre expiring for Rubio’s negative deal.

However, I get the feeling lately that I may be over-estimating how negative Rubio’s deal is, because there seem to be fans of several different teams that would take it on for nothing. Then the gap between Rubio and Fournier is small, and the deal doesn’t provide enough value to MIN.

Now, if ORL was willing to take on a truly negative deal like D’Angelo Russell, I’d be all ears. However, I don’t think that’s realistic for either front office right now.

In a vacuum I would strongly consider Russell for Gordon, the problem of course being the affect on Towns. We don't know that affect, but we can speculate that if we made the deal we would be looking to then move Towns, which doesn't exactly make it likely right now. And I am not sure ORL specifically would want him, there are teams that would, but ORL probably not, meaning it require another team anyways.

That said I don't necessarily view Rubio's contract as profoundly negative, it all depends on a team and roster construction. Obviously Rubio is not a great addition for us based on how our salary allocation and roster construction is. But with that Fournier really doesn't have any value to us other than as an expiring, he is a UFA after this season and I don't expect him to be in our plans.

[Merc_Porto]

Everyone noticed what this team has looked like without them, right?

Exactly the same?

[Wolf_Cry]

Screw Gordon. Gimme Mo Mamba. Low risk, high reward.

[Norseman79]

People, as long as Rosas is here, unless Kat says otherwise, DLo is going no where. If they are shopping for a PF, they only have a few pieces they can actually move for a quality piece. People saying to move Beasley, unless it comes from Taylor, I can't see them moving him if this is about winning/keeping Kat happy.

As for the people against moving Ant, look, the Wolves have a choice to make...either try to win now or win later, and if the plan is win now Ant and Mcdaniels are expendable, as is anyone not names Russell, Beasley, and Towns.

[SO_MONEY]

People, as long as Rosas is here, unless Kat says otherwise, DLo is going no where. If they are shopping for a PF, they only have a few pieces they can actually move for a quality piece. People saying to move Beasley, unless it comes from Taylor, I can't see them moving him if this is about winning/keeping Kat happy.

As for the people against moving Ant, look, the Wolves have a choice to make...either try to win now or win later, and if the plan is win now Ant and Mcdaniels are expendable, as is anyone not names Russell, Beasley, and Towns.

This kind of neglects that smart FOs are not going to trade ANT and McDaniels or much if any of their young cheap talent because they are not worth much in relative terms and you need an exit strategy if the day comes where it is clear that Towns and Russell are not going to win and you need to move on. If that day comes and I think a good portion of the fanbase is starting to see it as a possibility, then you have set the franchise back even further. A competent FO and ownership group is going to insulate themselves from that risk and retain every advantage as long as they can.

This team as it stands has Rubio, Okogie, Culver, Juancho, Layman, Davis and perhaps Vanderbilt to improve this roster to the point some progression is shown, if that happens then a team might look to be more aggressive. But they are not likely to do it blindly as you propose.

[Norseman79]

People, as long as Rosas is here, unless Kat says otherwise, DLo is going no where. If they are shopping for a PF, they only have a few pieces they can actually move for a quality piece. People saying to move Beasley, unless it comes from Taylor, I can't see them moving him if this is about winning/keeping Kat happy.

As for the people against moving Ant, look, the Wolves have a choice to make...either try to win now or win later, and if the plan is win now Ant and Mcdaniels are expendable, as is anyone not names Russell, Beasley, and Towns.

This kind of neglects that smart FOs are not going to trade ANT and McDaniels or much if any of their young cheap talent because they are not worth much in relative terms and you need an exit strategy if the day comes where it is clear that Towns and Russell are not going to win and you need to move on. If that day comes and I think a good portion of the fanbase is starting to see it as a possibility, then you have set the franchise back even further. A competent FO and ownership group is going to insulate themselves from that risk and retain every advantage as long as they can.

This team as it stands has Rubio, Okogie, Culver, Juancho, Layman, Davis and perhaps Vanderbilt to improve this roster to the point some progression is shown, if that happens then a team might look to be more aggressive. But they are not likely to do it blindly as you propose.

Yeah that's kind of sitting in the middle. I'm tired of being in the middle. Either go all in or fold and start a new hand. What I would argue is fielding a team that's going to be 500 is pointless. So, my personal preference is to wait until the lottery is set and if we keep our pick trade towns, but since it appears that is not of interest to the team, and they wish to keep people together, like kat and dlo, then you might as well cash in your young chips and get the best veterans you can. If it blows up in your face you're screwed either way.

[Wolves21]

I am all for bring in a true PF and someone like Gordon or Collins,just think the price will be to high.Clearly the Wolves aren't trading KAT or D'Lo(honestly the two guys I would look to trade as neither is a leader or true super star) and Edwards would be highly unlikely and foolish as he's a rookie you just drafted #1 and has and extremely high upside.Not a fan at all of trading Beasley as he's the only true shooter on the team besides Towns but think he's the best trade asset we have and probably would have to be dealt in order to get Gordon or Collins.Which if that's the case not a big fan of the move as the team has then no real shooting or three point threat besides Towns.

Also in terms of Collins he's going to be asking for a MAX deal or close to it so the bulk of your money will be tied up in Towns/Russel/Collins at probably around $90M per year which doesn't really give you any room to add any impactful players.

Now if we can keep Beasley and Edwards I might do a deal but again your looking your self into a team of D'Lo,Towns,Beasley,Edwards and then Collins or Gordon and the rest of the roster is going to have to be guys on rookie deals,undrafted players,G-Leaguers or washed up vets.Young players like Reid,McDaniels and others we won't have the money to resign after their rookie deals are up.

[SO_MONEY]

People, as long as Rosas is here, unless Kat says otherwise, DLo is going no where. If they are shopping for a PF, they only have a few pieces they can actually move for a quality piece. People saying to move Beasley, unless it comes from Taylor, I can't see them moving him if this is about winning/keeping Kat happy.

As for the people against moving Ant, look, the Wolves have a choice to make...either try to win now or win later, and if the plan is win now Ant and Mcdaniels are expendable, as is anyone not names Russell, Beasley, and Towns.

This kind of neglects that smart FOs are not going to trade ANT and McDaniels or much if any of their young cheap talent because they are not worth much in relative terms and you need an exit strategy if the day comes where it is clear that Towns and Russell are not going to win and you need to move on. If that day comes and I think a good portion of the fanbase is starting to see it as a possibility, then you have set the franchise back even further. A competent FO and ownership group is going to insulate themselves from that risk and retain every advantage as long as they can.

This team as it stands has Rubio, Okogie, Culver, Juancho, Layman, Davis and perhaps Vanderbilt to improve this roster to the point some progression is shown, if that happens then a team might look to be more aggressive. But they are not likely to do it blindly as you propose.

Yeah that's kind of sitting in the middle. I'm tired of being in the middle. Either go all in or fold and start a new hand. What I would argue is fielding a team that's going to be 500 is pointless. So, my personal preference is to wait until the lottery is set and if we keep our pick trade towns, but since it appears that is not of interest to the team, and they wish to keep people together, like kat and dlo, then you might as well cash in your young chips and get the best veterans you can. If it blows up in your face you're screwed either way.

It is not sitting in the middle, it is seeing if you can get to the middle without burning your future or possibilities to improve further from that point. And we honestly don't know if they are seeing the writing on the wall with KAT and DLo or not. Fans are seeing it and we are generally more emotionally attached to star players. I think the point of any move is to see if you can get an improvement with slight changes by getting a starting PF that gives leadership the confidence to be aggressive in moves this offseason. Otherwise if that improvement isn't shown it might be time to move on. At some point you need to attribute this teams culture or lack of it to the common denominator.

In short I think the team is more than willing to give up the players I listed to find, even if only for the remainder of the season a fill-in upgrade who might not fit the timeline to gain clarity if that is the problem or not, but also not give up assets to see if the test is failed. I can't believe there are going to be any rash desperation moves, they will do their due diligence and explore higher end talent, but know they are bargain shopping.

[Klomp]

As for the people against moving Ant, look, the Wolves have a choice to make...either try to win now or win later, and if the plan is win now Ant and Mcdaniels are expendable, as is anyone not names Russell, Beasley, and Towns.

I do want to say this....I thought some of the comments Finch made last night postgame were screaming at Edwards. Lots of names could be filled in the blanks, but I think Edwards is a big one who might not be right for Finch.

This was the comment that really stuck out to me:

“We’re gonna tighten things up and we’re going to play the guys that can compete the hardest,” Finch said. “We’re going to have a whole new reality coming out of the break with the way we approach things. We’ve got to be more competitive on every single play down the floor. These performances only end when we decide they end.”

Combine that with this lowlight from the game:

Read on Twitter

I don't necessarily think it's a foregone conclusion that his days are numbered, but I do think that he might be one of the guys affected by the tightening up.

[Jedzz]

Everyone noticed what this team has looked like without them, right?

Exactly the same?

Oh no. They have been worse. They have Kat now and have been even worse.

Rubio even brought true scoring play last game and Edwards destroyed the team's chance for a game.

[_AIJ_]

As for the people against moving Ant, look, the Wolves have a choice to make...either try to win now or win later, and if the plan is win now Ant and Mcdaniels are expendable, as is anyone not names Russell, Beasley, and Towns.

I do want to say this....I thought some of the comments Finch made last night postgame were screaming at Edwards. Lots of names could be filled in the blanks, but I think Edwards is a big one who might not be right for Finch.

This was the comment that really stuck out to me:

“We’re gonna tighten things up and we’re going to play the guys that can compete the hardest,” Finch said. “We’re going to have a whole new reality coming out of the break with the way we approach things. We’ve got to be more competitive on every single play down the floor. These performances only end when we decide they end.”

Combine that with this lowlight from the game:

Read on Twitter

I don't necessarily think it's a foregone conclusion that his days are numbered, but I do think that he might be one of the guys affected by the tightening up.

Edwards would be much better if he limits his 3pt attempts to 4

[SO_MONEY]

As for the people against moving Ant, look, the Wolves have a choice to make...either try to win now or win later, and if the plan is win now Ant and Mcdaniels are expendable, as is anyone not names Russell, Beasley, and Towns.

I do want to say this....I thought some of the comments Finch made last night postgame were screaming at Edwards. Lots of names could be filled in the blanks, but I think Edwards is a big one who might not be right for Finch.

This was the comment that really stuck out to me:

“We’re gonna tighten things up and we’re going to play the guys that can compete the hardest,” Finch said. “We’re going to have a whole new reality coming out of the break with the way we approach things. We’ve got to be more competitive on every single play down the floor. These performances only end when we decide they end.”

Combine that with this lowlight from the game:

Read on Twitter

I don't necessarily think it's a foregone conclusion that his days are numbered, but I do think that he might be one of the guys affected by the tightening up.

I honestly don't know what the MASSIVE problem with that "lowlight" is?

Do you want him to crash the boards? or leave a long rebound and not be able to release?

It is kind of a petty gripe and personally I would want a guard to play the long rebound or release down court.

If anyone deserves criticism over that play it is Naz Reid!!!

[Jedzz]

As for the people against moving Ant, look, the Wolves have a choice to make...either try to win now or win later, and if the plan is win now Ant and Mcdaniels are expendable, as is anyone not names Russell, Beasley, and Towns.

I do want to say this....I thought some of the comments Finch made last night postgame were screaming at Edwards. Lots of names could be filled in the blanks, but I think Edwards is a big one who might not be right for Finch.

This was the comment that really stuck out to me:

“We’re gonna tighten things up and we’re going to play the guys that can compete the hardest,” Finch said. “We’re going to have a whole new reality coming out of the break with the way we approach things. We’ve got to be more competitive on every single play down the floor. These performances only end when we decide they end.”

Combine that with this lowlight from the game:

Read on Twitter

I don't necessarily think it's a foregone conclusion that his days are numbered, but I do think that he might be one of the guys affected by the tightening up.

I honestly don't know what the MASSIVE problem with that "lowlight" is?

Do you want him to crash the boards? or leave a long rebound and not be able to release?

It is kind of a petty gripe and personally I would want a guard to play the long rebound or release down court.

If anyone deserves criticism over that play it is Naz Reid!!!

The only thing Ant is thinking there is that he is right in position to get the ball as soon as they score.