Official Trade Thread -- Part XL

[Dark Faze]

Sounds good on paper, but my retort would be, how useful would all this salary cap space be to the Wizards, whom would you choose to overpay in a market where a ton of teams are flush with cap space anyway?

John Collins
Andre Drummon
DeMar DeRozan
Kyle Lowry
Aldridge
Lonzo Ball
Schröder
Harrell
Oubre
Jarrett Allen
Norman Powell

Quite frankly I'd just rather have Russell Westbrook over your scenario.

I wouldn't say a ton of teams are flush with space. I'd say most middling to bad teams have space. Competitive teams are mostly all up against the cap, and are the ones most likely to give us value in exchange for relief or to facilitate deals.

In a reality where you *have* to compete with Brad, and you're not trading him and want to win now, I'd probably still prefer the cap space/expirings. In the "eff it lets just win" trade scenario above where we acquire Vucevic + Grant but Russ is still on the roster, I'd happily prefer Lowry at 2 years 50 million. I'd still have like 19 mil left to play with as well from the savings from the Russ contract alone!

[gambitx777]

So I saw some dumb SB article about the heat trading for dragic ingudala and olynk and a super far off protected first.
I was thinking add in troy brown jr and Mo. Or robinson and bonga to even it out? Make it a top three 2025 pick if not conveyed 3 seconds or something is that fair? Does either team do it? I doubt it.

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[nate33]

So I saw some dumb SB article about the heat trading for dragic ingudala and olynk and a super far off protected first.
I was thinking add in troy brown jr and Mo. Or robinson and bonga to even it out? Make it a top three 2025 pick if not conveyed 3 seconds or something is that fair? Does either team do it? I doubt it.

Sent from my SM-G965U1 using RealGM mobile app

I don't understand a word of this post. How are the Heat trading for players they already have? If they are trading with someone else, who are they trading with? What are they getting in return?

[NatP4]

What does it actually cost to dump Westbrook? A future protected 1st in exchange for expiring contracts? More? Less?

Could we get Collins to accept his QO in 2021 and re sign as an UFA after Beal opts out?

[NatP4]

I still don’t see any argument against Rui+Bertans for Collins.

Atlanta gets a win now shooter, they need 3pt shooting badly. They also don’t mortgage the future, bring back a young player with “potential” at the PF position. The Collins situation has apparently become awkward in Atlanta.

Wiz get a really good young 23 year old PF of the future with far more potential than Rui, and create the cap space to re sign him to a new deal in the off-season.

With the way that the rest of the league seems to value Hachimura, it seems like as good of a deal as any team will offer for Collins.

The wiz keep that important 2021 1st round pick.

[Ruzious]

I still don’t see any argument against Rui+Bertans for Collins.

Atlanta gets a win now shooter, they need 3pt shooting badly. They also don’t mortgage the future, bring back a young player with “potential” at the PF position. The Collins situation has apparently become awkward in Atlanta.

Wiz get a really good young 23 year old PF of the future with far more potential than Rui, and create the cap space to re sign him to a new deal in the off-season.

With the way that the rest of the league seems to value Hachimura, it seems like as good of a deal as any team will offer for Collins.

The wiz keep that important 2021 1st round pick.

Yeah, as long as Collins is willing to re-sign at a reasonable price. He was talking before about wanting a max contract, and that's just not gonna happen.

[nate33]

Could we get Collins to accept his QO in 2021 and re sign as an UFA after Beal opts out?

No chance at all.

Collins is looking at a new contract that gives him $20-25M in his first year. You would be asking him to forego that and instead take the $5.9M Qualifying Offer. He'll never make up that $20M lost, and he takes on the risk of a career ending injury.

[nate33]

I still don’t see any argument against Rui+Bertans for Collins.

Atlanta gets a win now shooter, they need 3pt shooting badly. They also don’t mortgage the future, bring back a young player with “potential” at the PF position. The Collins situation has apparently become awkward in Atlanta.

Wiz get a really good young 23 year old PF of the future with far more potential than Rui, and create the cap space to re sign him to a new deal in the off-season.

With the way that the rest of the league seems to value Hachimura, it seems like as good of a deal as any team will offer for Collins.

The wiz keep that important 2021 1st round pick.

Yeah, as long as Collins is willing to re-sign at a reasonable price. He was talking before about wanting a max contract, and that's just not gonna happen.

I think it will happen.

There are plenty of bad teams with cap room that would like to add a 23-year-old player with potential All-Star upside.

[payitforward]

Rui & Bertans for Collins would be great. Bertans' salary is just dead weight. He is a one-trick pony. Signing him long-term for a lot of money was an idiotic move, as a few people here pointed out before it happened.

Rui is a nice kid with good size & good athleticism. He might someday become a good player.

OTOH, Collins is a good player. His numbers are off this year, but maybe that's b/c of his situation in Atlanta. He's certainly not showing that he's worth a max. If someone wants to overpay him, we might lose him in the off season. In that case, it would have cost us Rui to have dumped Bertans.

That's how things work in the world, including the NBA: when you make a mistake it costs you something to fix it.

[NatP4]

I fully expect Collins to get the max, but I would rather slightly overpay a good player in Collins, then pay Rui&Bertans a similar figure for the next 4 years.

Collins has shown serious improvement on the defensive end this season, although Atlanta fans claim that it’s the byproduct of playing with a rim protector in Capela.

Based on the comments from the Atlanta front office, Collins is surely being moved at the deadline. Everything was mishandled with that situation. We should atleast throw our offer in.

[nate33]

Rui & Bertans for Collins would be great. Bertans' salary is just dead weight. He is a one-trick pony. Signing him long-term for a lot of money was an idiotic move, as a few people here pointed out before it happened.

Rui is a nice kid with good size & good athleticism. He might someday become a good player.

OTOH, Collins is a good player. His numbers are off this year, but maybe that's b/c of his situation in Atlanta. He's certainly not showing that he's worth a max. If someone wants to overpay him, we might lose him in the off season. In that case, it would have cost us Rui to have dumped Bertans.

That's how things work in the world, including the NBA: when you make a mistake it costs you something to fix it.

That's horrible logic. Dumping Bertans does not require sacrificing Hachimura. We could dump Bertans right now for an expiring contract, and probably get a 2nd round pick in the bargain.

If you make that Collins trade and then end up losing him in free agency, it's not "how things work in the world". It would be a stupid squandering of the asset that is Hachimura. Even if you don't like Hachimura, I guarantee he has positive value in this league. Teams would trade real assets for him.

[Ruzious]

I still don’t see any argument against Rui+Bertans for Collins.

Atlanta gets a win now shooter, they need 3pt shooting badly. They also don’t mortgage the future, bring back a young player with “potential” at the PF position. The Collins situation has apparently become awkward in Atlanta.

Wiz get a really good young 23 year old PF of the future with far more potential than Rui, and create the cap space to re sign him to a new deal in the off-season.

With the way that the rest of the league seems to value Hachimura, it seems like as good of a deal as any team will offer for Collins.

The wiz keep that important 2021 1st round pick.

Yeah, as long as Collins is willing to re-sign at a reasonable price. He was talking before about wanting a max contract, and that's just not gonna happen.

I think it will happen.

There are plenty of bad teams with cap room that would like to add a 23-year-old player with potential All-Star upside.

I don't think he's viewed as an all-star type. Even on Atlanta, I think he was going to fall behind Hunter in the pecking order before Hunter got injured. He's definitely a good player, but he's always been viewed as a poor defender. But we shall see this offseason.

[Ruzious]

Rui & Bertans for Collins would be great. Bertans' salary is just dead weight. He is a one-trick pony. Signing him long-term for a lot of money was an idiotic move, as a few people here pointed out before it happened.

Rui is a nice kid with good size & good athleticism. He might someday become a good player.

OTOH, Collins is a good player. His numbers are off this year, but maybe that's b/c of his situation in Atlanta. He's certainly not showing that he's worth a max. If someone wants to overpay him, we might lose him in the off season. In that case, it would have cost us Rui to have dumped Bertans.

That's how things work in the world, including the NBA: when you make a mistake it costs you something to fix it.

You're really underrating what Bertans does for a team. He makes things so much easier for his teammates by drawing defenders 20 plus feed from the basket. Granted he's paid a lot, and he wasn't in shape for the 1st month of the season, but he's a valued player.

[Ball4life32]

I fully expect Collins to get the max, but I would rather slightly overpay a good player in Collins, then pay Rui&Bertans a similar figure for the next 4 years.

Collins has shown serious improvement on the defensive end this season, although Atlanta fans claim that it’s the byproduct of playing with a rim protector in Capela.

Based on the comments from the Atlanta front office, Collins is surely being moved at the deadline. Everything was mishandled with that situation. We should atleast throw our offer in.

I have seen nothing from the Atlanta FO indicating this. It seems like the opposite and it is highly unlikely he’s traded at the deadline. Also apparently the issues with Collins was with Pierce who has been fired. I don’t see why Hawks wouldn’t want to pay Collins but are ok paying Gallo/Bertans 38m combined.

[nate33]

If Collins is so good, why is Atlanta no better than us?

If you match up best player to best player, 2nd best to 2nd best, etc., they're better down the line at everything except Beal versus Trae:

Trae < Beal
Collins > Westbrook
Hunter > Hachimura
Capela > Lopez/Wagner
Gallinari = Bertans
Huerter > Avdija
Bogdanovic > Mathews
Reddish > Bonga

[nate33]

It's looking more and more like the Cavs won't get anything in return in a Drummond trade and they may just decide to buy him out. I figure Drummond doesn't sacrifice more than $2 or $3M off of his $28M salary in a buyout agreement (he'll recoup a pro-rated $2.1M or so by signing for the vet minimum elsewhere). So basically, the Cavs will take anything that saves them more than $2-3M.

Would they consider trading us Drummond for Lopez + Bryant + Ish + Robinson? It saves them $3.4M immediately, and it gives them a real asset in Thomas Bryant - a guy who would platoon nicely with Jarrett Allen next year. Furthermore, he is useless now so he helps them tank.

For us, it gives us an upgrade at center and also resolves the Wagner issue as now it would make sense to pay him a good chunk of change ($4-6M a year or so) to retain him as a backup for the future.

Next year, we can either resign Drummond at an affordable rate just above the MLE using Bird Rights if we like his fit here, or we can let him walk and try to tackle our starting center issue using the full MLE.

[nate33]

The Drummond/Westbrook combo does not seem ideal. However, with Westbrook throwing up so many misses, having one of the best offensive rebounders in the game out there to clean up the mess could help.

[NatP4]

Would rather just keep Bryant and get creative with re signing Mo.

Drummond is not much of an upgrade over Len if you ask me

[deneem4]

The Drummond/Westbrook combo does not seem ideal. However, with Westbrook throwing up so many misses, having one of the best offensive rebounders in the game out there to clean up the mess could help.

This
Drummond may clog up the paint, but he’s still one of the best rebounders, teams would have to put more focus on blocking out him which would let Westbrook get back to his 10+ rebound a game form...

[nate33]

Drummond is not much of an upgrade over Len if you ask me

Tough to say.

Drummond is a weird player. He is an absolute physical marvel with incredible strength and impressive agility at his size. And he is weirdly skilled as a ball handler, yet he can't shoot and he has no offensive moves. He is only a mediocre rim protector but a monster on the glass.

Statistically, he was pretty good in Detroit, with an even or positive on/off differential for the last few years. He was terrible in Cleveland, but they're trying to tank and they clearly don't want him around, so motivation is an issue there.

I think a focused Drummond, motivated to land a new contract, would probably be a plus player for the remainder of this season. I don't know how comfortable I would be resigning him though.