Official Trade Thread -- Part XL

[Dat2U]

This guy predicts (or at least suggests) Robinson for McGee: https://hoopshabit.com/2021/02/11/one-prediction-nba-team-trade-deadline/4/

It would be fun. But... what's in it for Cleveland?

Why do we need a 4th center?

The value is good because Robinson is worthless and McGee has some marginal value. I'd do that trade and immediately flip McGee for anything I could get. I think a handful of playoff teams wouldn't mind one more serviceable backup center on the roster.

We don't need a 4th C, we need an upgrade at C and with Westy's presence that C must take and make 3s to provide the spacing Russ needs.

[NatP4]

Myles Turner

[payitforward]

"Neutral: may mean unchanged from last year. Not sure what it could mean otherwise.

I think of neutral as being worth expiring contracts.

If a team will trade for your guy and give nothing back but expiring contracts and/or cap room, your guy has neutral value. The trade market values your guy at roughly the same cost as a free agent (since the alternative to trading for your guy is to acquire a free agent in the offseason).

Positive value is if they'll give you additional assets in addition to expiring contracts/cap room in exchange for your guy. And when I say "the trade market", I mean the one team in the league who values your asset the most. If 28 teams in the league wouldn't take on Bertans if you put a gun to their head, but one team will give you a first round pick and an expiring for him, then Bertans' value is a 1st round pick and an expiring.

What you write makes perfect sense -- & it explains why you said that what dat was calling "neutral" was actually "positive" from your POV.

OTOH... I was trying to figure out what Dat meant by the term "neutral."

Obviously, he can't have meant what you mean.

[gambitx777]

Yeah I wouldn't mind forgetting about the seconds, just the starting price I think. I like the idea of drummand in this team but if he gets bought out he's not coming here. For sure.

What about something like this?

Boston out : nesmith, grant williams, williams III, 2021 seconds ,2022 second, 2023 second,
Boston in. : Bertans and lopez

Cavs out : drummand
Cavs in. : Bryant, ish, robinson

Wiz out : Bertans , lopez, ish, bryant , robinson
Wiz in. : Drummand, Nesmith, grant williams, williams III. 2021, 2022, 2023 second

I'd just do the first trade and be done with it. I'd be happy rolling with the Bryant/Williams tandem at center. I wouldn't ask for Grant Williams since they can absorb the salary differential without including him.

I don't see Boston giving up nearly that much for Bertans though. Heck, I'd do it without any of the 2nd round picks coming our way. Bertans + Lopez for Robert Williams and Nesmith is good for me. It gives us a rim protecting center, a young sharpshooter on a rookie contract, and cleans up any luxtax concerns.

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[gambitx777]

Nesmith has potential but isn't playing for them at all. He got time then fell out when smart came back. They have a ton of young wings behind two of the best wings in the east. He's expendable. Williams III is decent but undersized a bit, he plays well and I really like his game, and robin is playing relay well this year on par if not better than williams III robin also has some size on him. Obviously robins at the end of his carers but he's a vet and replaces williams III in the trade. Grant was there for tax reasons. Boston does this because the way Bertans is playing he's exactly what that team needs to put them over the edge ! I understand his contract it sizable but having that extra bomb off the bench could be the punch they need to compete with the nets and the 76ers. So your giving up a guy you arnt playing and don't need and a guy you're replacing in the trade. Take the seconds out for all I care, but, For the one piece that might help you get to the conference finals or beyond, you do that deal all day imo.

Lopez is expiring & at/near the end of his career. He has little trade value at $7+m. Thus, essentially, this amounts to Robert Williams & Nesmith (just picked @#14) for Bertans.

Last year, when Bertans was playing a lot better, Boston offered 1 pick (presumably either the #26 or the #30) for him, but not 2, which was Tommy's asking price.

What possible reason would they have to make this trade?

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[gambitx777]

This guy predicts (or at least suggests) Robinson for McGee: https://hoopshabit.com/2021/02/11/one-prediction-nba-team-trade-deadline/4/

It would be fun. But... what's in it for Cleveland?

Why do we need a 4th center?

The value is good because Robinson is worthless and McGee has some marginal value. I'd do that trade and immediately flip McGee for anything I could get. I think a handful of playoff teams wouldn't mind one more serviceable backup center on the roster.

We are too close to the tax to do that.

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[DCZards]

Nesmith has potential but isn't playing for them at all. He got time then fell out when smart came back. They have a ton of young wings behind two of the best wings in the east. He's expendable. Williams III is decent but undersized a bit, he plays well and I really like his game, and robin is playing relay well this year on par if not better than williams III robin also has some size on him. Obviously robins at the end of his carers but he's a vet and replaces williams III in the trade. Grant was there for tax reasons. Boston does this because the way Bertans is playing he's exactly what that team needs to put them over the edge ! I understand his contract it sizable but having that extra bomb off the bench could be the punch they need to compete with the nets and the 76ers. So your giving up a guy you arnt playing and don't need and a guy you're replacing in the trade. Take the seconds out for all I care, but, For the one piece that might help you get to the conference finals or beyond, you do that deal all day imo.

Lopez is expiring & at/near the end of his career. He has little trade value at $7+m. Thus, essentially, this amounts to Robert Williams & Nesmith (just picked @#14) for Bertans.

Last year, when Bertans was playing a lot better, Boston offered 1 pick (presumably either the #26 or the #30) for him, but not 2, which was Tommy's asking price.

What possible reason would they have to make this trade?

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I suspect that the Celts value the potential of first round pick Williams and Nesmith more than they value the boost they might get from adding Bertans. They could get a similar boost by trading for someone like an Alec Burks or a Wayne Ellington, both of whom would be cheaper than Bertans salary-wise and likely cost less in a trade.

[Ruzious]

There's speculation of a fire sale that could include Christian Wood in Houston. https://www.yahoo.com/sports/rockets-may-fire-sale-trade-183237598.html

[Frichuela]

I have been thinking of ways we could acquire John Collins from ATL and be able to afford him next season.

How would we feel if we get Collins+Fernando+Salary Filler (Snell) for Thomas Bryant+Rui+Troy Brown (plus Anthony Gill if needed to stay under tax).

Next season, we could go with:

Westbrook/1st Rounder/Winston
Beal/Matthews
Avdija/min (Bonga?)
Collins/Bertans
Wagner/Fernando/Len

This plan would hinge in resigning Matthews/Wagner for very reasonable contracts and Len/Bonga (or vet min) for the min.

Another question is why would Atlanta do it? This would depend on how they feel about Rui as a cheap Collins replacement in addition to having Bryant (as a significant upgrade from Fernando) and Troy as a bet for the future.

[Ruzious]

I have been thinking of ways we could acquire John Collins from ATL and be able to afford him next season.

How would we feel if we get Collins+Fernando+Salary Filler (Snell) for Thomas Bryant+Rui+Troy Brown (plus Anthony Gill if needed to stay under tax).

Next season, we could go with:

Westbrook/1st Rounder/Winston
Beal/Matthews
Avdija/min (Bonga?)
Collins/Bertans
Wagner/Fernando/Len

This plan would hinge in resigning Matthews/Wagner for very reasonable contracts and Len/Bonga (or vet min) for the min.

Another question is why would Atlanta do it? This would depend on how they feel about Rui as a cheap Collins replacement in addition to having Bryant (as a significant upgrade from Fernando) and Troy as a bet for the future.

With both Capella and Okongwu there, I'm not sure how much PT would be available for Bryant - though they could try Okongwu or Bryant at PF.

[nate33]

I have been thinking of ways we could acquire John Collins from ATL and be able to afford him next season.

How would we feel if we get Collins+Fernando+Salary Filler (Snell) for Thomas Bryant+Rui+Troy Brown (plus Anthony Gill if needed to stay under tax).

Next season, we could go with:

Westbrook/1st Rounder/Winston
Beal/Matthews
Avdija/min (Bonga?)
Collins/Bertans
Wagner/Fernando/Len

This plan would hinge in resigning Matthews/Wagner for very reasonable contracts and Len/Bonga (or vet min) for the min.

Another question is why would Atlanta do it? This would depend on how they feel about Rui as a cheap Collins replacement in addition to having Bryant (as a significant upgrade from Fernando) and Troy as a bet for the future.

I just don't see a way to do it without also unloading Bertans on someone. Next year, Westbrook, Beal and Bertans combine to cost $94.7M. The year after, they cost $100.3M. Collins will get a contract that will cost somewhere between $22 and $30M a year. And with other teams seeing our salary situation, one of them will probably try and poach Collins by offering a difficult-to-match max deal like they did with Otto Porter. So I'm assuming the high end of that range - $30M. We can't fill out a roster when 4 players make $125M. Avdija and our pick alone would put us at the luxtax threshold.

[queridiculo]

Here's one that's going to get people riled.

Sacramento in: Thomas Bryant, Ish Smith, Troy Brown Jr., Jerome Robinson, Isaac Bonga, 2021 1st, 2022 2nd
Wizards in: Harrison Barnes, Richaun Holmes

[Ruzious]

Here's one that's going to get people riled.

Sacramento in: Thomas Bryant, Ish Smith, Troy Brown Jr., Jerome Robinson, Isaac Bonga, 2021 1st, 2022 2nd
Wizards in: Harrison Barnes, Richaun Holmes

Rile rile rile!

Why would we target yet another tweener forward who doesn't rebound well and a soon to be free agent center who's good - but nothing special and who we probably won't be able to afford to re-sign?

[Dat2U]

There's speculation of a fire sale that could include Christian Wood in Houston. https://www.yahoo.com/sports/rockets-may-fire-sale-trade-183237598.html

One of the few guys I'd trade our first for.

Of course I wanted him like 4 years ago or even two years ago when he could have been signed off the street but still, get the guy that's flashed extensively that he can be a two player against NBA competition, even if it costs alot more now than it did before.

[Ruzious]

There's speculation of a fire sale that could include Christian Wood in Houston. https://www.yahoo.com/sports/rockets-may-fire-sale-trade-183237598.html

One of the few guys I'd trade our first for.

Of course I wanted him like 4 years ago or even two years ago when he could have been signed off the street but still, get the guy that's flashed extensively that he can be a two player against NBA competition, even if it costs alot more now than it did before.

Preaching to the choir. Right, don't make the fact that we blew it (which we did) by not getting him earlier stop us from making an attempt to get him now.

[nate33]

There's speculation of a fire sale that could include Christian Wood in Houston. https://www.yahoo.com/sports/rockets-may-fire-sale-trade-183237598.html

One of the few guys I'd trade our first for.

Of course I wanted him like 4 years ago or even two years ago when he could have been signed off the street but still, get the guy that's flashed extensively that he can be a two player against NBA competition, even if it costs alot more now than it did before.

Preaching to the choir. Right, don't make the fact that we blew it (which we did) by not getting him earlier stop us from making an attempt to get him now.

It's interesting.

Nobody really wanted Wood 2 years ago even though the stats were screaming that he'd be a good pro. Dozens of teams could have signed him for the vet minimum, yet nobody did.

Finally, Detroit took a chance on him and he played really well, so what did Detroit do? They let him walk rather than pay him MLE money.

Houston acquires him and he plays really well, and now they're talking about try to trade him.

What is wrong with this guy? Why does nobody want him? There has to be more to the story.

[Ruzious]

One of the few guys I'd trade our first for.

Of course I wanted him like 4 years ago or even two years ago when he could have been signed off the street but still, get the guy that's flashed extensively that he can be a two player against NBA competition, even if it costs alot more now than it did before.

Preaching to the choir. Right, don't make the fact that we blew it (which we did) by not getting him earlier stop us from making an attempt to get him now.

It's interesting.

Nobody really wanted Wood 2 years ago even though the stats were screaming that he'd be a good pro. Dozens of teams could have signed him for the vet minimum, yet nobody did.

Finally, Detroit took a chance on him and he played really well, so what did Detroit do? They let him walk rather than pay him MLE money.

Houston acquires him and he plays really well, and now they're talking about try to trade him.

What is wrong with this guy? Why does nobody want him? There has to be more to the story.

I suspect he pissed somebody off (maybe slept with the wrong person's daughter or wife?), but I can't imagine it was something bad enough that he should have been basically blackballed by the NBA for 3 years.

[payitforward]

...Williams III is decent but undersized a bit, he plays well and I really like his game, and robin is playing relay well this year on par if not better than williams III ...

Wait. You are actually saying that Williams & Lopez are playing about at the same level? Or maybe Robin is playing better? How can you possibly write something like that?

Williams scores marginally more points than Lopez per 40 minutes (@ 1 extra point). &... that's about as far as being "on par" goes.

Unless you think 2.33 times as many defensive rebounds is "on a par" w/ Lopez. Or 26% more offensive boards, 45% more assists, almost 3 times as many blocked shots, almost 4 times as many steals & a TS% of 72% vs. Robin's 63%.

Robert Williams is playing at an incredibly high level this season.

[payitforward]

There's speculation of a fire sale that could include Christian Wood in Houston. https://www.yahoo.com/sports/rockets-may-fire-sale-trade-183237598.html

One of the few guys I'd trade our first for.

Of course I wanted him like 4 years ago or even two years ago when he could have been signed off the street but still, get the guy that's flashed extensively that he can be a two player against NBA competition, even if it costs alot more now than it did before.

Preaching to the choir. Right, don't make the fact that we blew it (which we did) by not getting him earlier stop us from making an attempt to get him now.

I've been calling his name since forever as well. One of the most amazing whiffs by NBA GMs that I have ever seen! If he's available, get him. He's outstanding value at his current salary.

But... even if there's a fire sale in Houston, I don't think he's likely to be part of it. Tho... Fertita does seem just dumb enough....

[payitforward]

Hmmm, as I think about it -- look for Pat Riley to trade Olynyk (expiring) & a R1 pick for Wood! What a deal that would be for them!!