Official Trade Thread -- Part XL

[NatP4]

Hopefully they trade him for Mo Bamba.

Damn beat me to it lol. Is he any good?

Good question. The Magic board is all over the place on Bamba. A few think he’s a bust, a few think he’s really good, and the majority think he should be playing more to see what they have but Vuc&Birch are in the way and Clifford doesn’t seem to like Bamba.

I will say, his on/off numbers for the last couple of seasons rank him near the top of the team.

[nate33]

Mo Bamba for tbj? Why is he still barely playing? Fair enough that Vucevic is the starting Center but Birch is ahead of him too. I remember really liking him when he was drafted. Is it just the situation or does he suck?

My sense from talking to Orlando fans on the trade board is that they view Bamba much like we view Brown. He's a pretty good player that, for whatever reason, isn't getting minutes.

The main difference is that, with Brown, I think many of us have accepted that he just isn't going to play much because his style of game isn't compatible with Westbrook's ball domination. With Bamba, I think many fans still think he fits in just fine and it's just that the coach is stupid. So they're still much more resistant to a trade (unless they get back a ton).

[NatP4]

When you trade someone whom you view as a problem rather than a solution, usually you get back a guy whom your trade partner views as a problem rather than a solution.

I'm afraid that sounds more like Marvin Bagley than Richaun Holmes....

I'd do Brown for Bagley too.

They'd probably want a 1st, and that's a hard pass.

Bagley is a total bust. That would be horrible

[payitforward]

...Troy+Wagner for Holmes. ...

...I wonder if Sacramento would prefer Bryant? Something like Bryant + Brown for Holmes + Jabari Parker?...

...A more plausible scenario!

Thing is... they aren't going to give us Holmes. They see that we are not happy with Troy Brown. We want to get rid of him. They will give us someone they're not happy with, someone they want to get rid of. I'd be surprised if Holmes was on that list.

Jabari Parker has played 25 minutes this year, so he qualifies. But I don't think even the Washington Wizards would be stupid enough to take him back in a trade. &, he's expiring. Sac'to can't see him as all that much of a problem.

Bagley is the obvious candidate. Since he was a #2 pick, it'd also be seen by Ted as something easy to sell to fans.

Not saying it'll happen... but I don't see why they would move Holmes.

[payitforward]

When you trade someone whom you view as a problem rather than a solution, usually you get back a guy whom your trade partner views as a problem rather than a solution.

I'm afraid that sounds more like Marvin Bagley than Richaun Holmes....

I'd do Brown for Bagley too.

They'd probably want a 1st, and that's a hard pass.

Bagley is a total bust. That would be horrible

I don't think that simple trade would work in the trade checker, would it? He's making $9m this year.

edit: that was a quick reaction, nate -- why would you like that trade?

[nate33]

When you trade someone whom you view as a problem rather than a solution, usually you get back a guy whom your trade partner views as a problem rather than a solution.

I'm afraid that sounds more like Marvin Bagley than Richaun Holmes....

I'd do Brown for Bagley too.

They'd probably want a 1st, and that's a hard pass.

Bagley is a total bust. That would be horrible

He is 21 years old and averaging 15 and 8 (21 and 10 per 36). I know he has warts. He's a lousy defender and poor passer. But he has improved his on/off differential considerably from last year, he has developed a 3-point shot, and he is an improved shooter from every distance except long 2's. I'd take a shot on him if all it costs is Troy Brown - a guy we surely won't be resigning anyhow.

[gambitx777]

I'd do Brown for Bagley too.

They'd probably want a 1st, and that's a hard pass.

Bagley is a total bust. That would be horrible

He is 21 years old and averaging 15 and 8 (21 and 10 per 36). I know he has warts. He's a lousy defender and poor passer. But he has improved his on/off differential considerably from last year, he has developed a 3-point shot, and he is an improved shooter from every distance except long 2's. I'd take a shot on him if all it costs is Troy Brown - a guy we surely won't be resigning anyhow.

Bagley and ramsey
For
Ish , mo and brown?
Money works saved us a few mill on the tax and they get brown and mo for bagley . Ish is filler and we get ramsey for roster management sake.

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[nate33]

Bagley is a total bust. That would be horrible

He is 21 years old and averaging 15 and 8 (21 and 10 per 36). I know he has warts. He's a lousy defender and poor passer. But he has improved his on/off differential considerably from last year, he has developed a 3-point shot, and he is an improved shooter from every distance except long 2's. I'd take a shot on him if all it costs is Troy Brown - a guy we surely won't be resigning anyhow.

Bagley and ramsey
For
Ish , mo and brown?
Money works saved us a few mill on the tax and they get brown and mo for bagley . Ish is filler and we get ramsey for roster management sake.

Sent from my SM-G965U1 using RealGM mobile app

Yeah, there are plenty of ways to make the salaries work.

Brown + Ish for Bagley
Brown + Gil + Robinson for Bagley
Brown + Lopez for Bagley + Kyle Guy or someone.

[payitforward]

To me, the Wizards' desire to trade Brown is an indication of a return to the directionless, short-term, reactive nature of the franchise under Ernie. As such, I find it depressing.

Troy is 21 years old -- a fair number of guys who will be drafted in 2022 -- not this June but next June! -- will be older than Troy Brown.

Troy also had a promising rookie year & a really good 2d year (when his overall productivity was comfortably in the top 35% of guys at his position).

[gambitx777]

I persoaly included mo and ish because #1 I feel like they will want a little more for bagley, 2 mos playing well enough to have some value.

#2 I also don't see them valuing ramsey and maybe we can steal him. The kid can shoot 3's well. He's a bit of a chucker and can't hit FT, but other wise but he's got a good frame can play some D and his bad qualites are fixable at 19 years old. Kind of like bagley, I think they can both be salvaged.

#3 getting a bit further under the tax helps us in the buy out market.

He is 21 years old and averaging 15 and 8 (21 and 10 per 36). I know he has warts. He's a lousy defender and poor passer. But he has improved his on/off differential considerably from last year, he has developed a 3-point shot, and he is an improved shooter from every distance except long 2's. I'd take a shot on him if all it costs is Troy Brown - a guy we surely won't be resigning anyhow.

Bagley and ramsey
For
Ish , mo and brown?
Money works saved us a few mill on the tax and they get brown and mo for bagley . Ish is filler and we get ramsey for roster management sake.

Sent from my SM-G965U1 using RealGM mobile app

Yeah, there are plenty of ways to make the salaries work.

Brown + Ish for Bagley
Brown + Gil + Robinson for Bagley
Brown + Lopez for Bagley + Kyle Guy or someone.

Sent from my SM-G965U1 using RealGM mobile app

[NatP4]

I hate everything. PJ Tucker, come on down. (Also confirmed the reports that wiz are looking to trade Brown Jr)

Read on Twitter

[nate33]

To me, the Wizards' desire to trade Brown is an indication of a return to the directionless, short-term, reactive nature of the franchise under Ernie. As such, I find it depressing.

Troy is 21 years old -- a fair number of guys who will be drafted in 2022 -- not this June but next June! -- will be older than Troy Brown.

Troy also had a promising rookie year & a really good 2d year (when his overall productivity was comfortably in the top 35% of guys at his position).

I don't disagree. I'd rather keep Troy. I'm just saying that if the decision has been made to move him, a guy like Bagley seems like a good risk/reward.

The logic for moving Troy is that he is not compatible with Westbrook. I think that's a fair assessment. But one has to wonder at the reasoning behind trying to mold a team around a 32-year-old with 36000 minutes under his belt who isn't really that good anymore.

[pcbothwel]

I'd do Brown for Bagley too.

They'd probably want a 1st, and that's a hard pass.

Bagley is a total bust. That would be horrible

He is 21 years old and averaging 15 and 8 (21 and 10 per 36). I know he has warts. He's a lousy defender and poor passer. But he has improved his on/off differential considerably from last year, he has developed a 3-point shot, and he is an improved shooter from every distance except long 2's. I'd take a shot on him if all it costs is Troy Brown - a guy we surely won't be resigning anyhow.

Warts? The guy makes 11M+ next year and is a complete negative on the court. If we traded Brown + Ish for Bagley, I would want a pick as compensation.
IF Brown is moved, it has to be for an expiring and a 2nd or two. Anything else is a joke.
- Trade Brown for expiring plus a 2nd
- Trade Bertans for an expiring plus top 35 pick

If we plan on getting a true elite exec like Masai, I want him to have picks and flexibility (Full MLE).
I like Bertans, but feel he is a luxury that can net us a solid pick and also opens up the Full MLE for us to use.

[nate33]

I hate everything. PJ Tucker, come on down. (Also confirmed the reports that wiz are looking to trade Brown Jr)

Read on Twitter

These are not good omens, but I will wait and see what happens before I freak out too much. So far, Sheppard has not made any patented Ernie Grunfeld Specials. He hasn't traded away youth for short term wins yet.

I think a lot of this can get twisted out of proportion. When the Wizards say that they want to win now, that's not necessarily an indication that they will sacrifice the future to win now. I think they are just avoiding the trap of saying they don't care about wins this season.

The part I never understood is this belief that if the Wizards sacrifice the future to win a couple more games now, and then squeak into the playoffs, that this somehow improves the chances of resigning Beal. As I keep saying, when Beal makes his decision to resign, he won't be looking in the rearview mirror. He'll want to see a promising future. Trading Brown for someone like Tucker does not help to resign Beal.

[payitforward]

I'd do Brown for Bagley too.

They'd probably want a 1st, and that's a hard pass.

Bagley is a total bust. That would be horrible

He is 21 years old and averaging 15 and 8 (21 and 10 per 36)...and he is an improved shooter...

He scored more points at a higher TS% as a rookie than he is doing this year.

...he has improved his on/off differential considerably from last year...

Are the same players on the court w/ him? How about his on/off as a rookie?

...I'd take a shot on him if all it costs is Troy Brown - a guy we surely won't be resigning anyhow.

He makes $9m this year & $11.3m next year. Are you sure you'd really prefer him to keeping Troy?

Troy is guaranteed for next year, btw -- no re-signing decision for a while yet. Are you sure you wouldn't prefer a longer look at Troy Brown to paying Bagley $11.3m next year?

[payitforward]

To me, the Wizards' desire to trade Brown is an indication of a return to the directionless, short-term, reactive nature of the franchise under Ernie. As such, I find it depressing.

Troy is 21 years old -- a fair number of guys who will be drafted in 2022 -- not this June but next June! -- will be older than Troy Brown.

Troy also had a promising rookie year & a really good 2d year (when his overall productivity was comfortably in the top 35% of guys at his position).

I don't disagree. I'd rather keep Troy. I'm just saying that if the decision has been made to move him, a guy like Bagley seems like a good risk/reward....

Sorry, missed this. I'm guessing you haven't taken as long a look at Bagley as you might!

IOW, these are two separate mistakes: giving up on Brown & acquiring Bagley. In the latter case, it's not just that he isn't good; it's how much $$ he is guaranteed this year & next.

...The logic for moving Troy is that he is not compatible with Westbrook. I think that's a fair assessment. But one has to wonder at the reasoning behind trying to mold a team around a 32-year-old with 36000 minutes under his belt who isn't really that good anymore.

Exactly.

[Ruzious]

I hate everything. PJ Tucker, come on down. (Also confirmed the reports that wiz are looking to trade Brown Jr)

Read on Twitter

Is there a rotation player in the NBA with worse stats than Tucker?

[payitforward]

Overall, my problem is that if Ted is trying to hire Ujiri, then Tommy is a lame duck. & in that situation, I find it hard to believe that he's still in charge of strategy -- i.e. that he determines what kinds of moves we make.

You are right that he hasn't yet traded youth for age, long-term potential for a few wins now. "We are going to build this the right way, patiently" was what he said when he assumed his position.

Being "focused on making the playoffs" this year is, if not a contradiction w/ the above, then at least potentially in conflict with it. That is definitely about "a few wins now." Moreover, unless they've completely lost their minds, they can't imagine that this Washington Wizards team is capable of competing for anything beyond simply getting into post-season.

[gambitx777]

You can't say browns worth an expiring and a second and say Bertans is worth the same.
I understand Bertans contract is sizable bit for **** sakes the dude can shoot lights out and that's a premium skill. He's worth more than that for sure. And I doubt brown has that value honestly.

Bagley is a total bust. That would be horrible

He is 21 years old and averaging 15 and 8 (21 and 10 per 36). I know he has warts. He's a lousy defender and poor passer. But he has improved his on/off differential considerably from last year, he has developed a 3-point shot, and he is an improved shooter from every distance except long 2's. I'd take a shot on him if all it costs is Troy Brown - a guy we surely won't be resigning anyhow.

Warts? The guy makes 11M+ next year and is a complete negative on the court. If we traded Brown + Ish for Bagley, I would want a pick as compensation.
IF Brown is moved, it has to be for an expiring and a 2nd or two. Anything else is a joke.
- Trade Brown for expiring plus a 2nd
- Trade Bertans for an expiring plus top 35 pick

If we plan on getting a true elite exec like Masai, I want him to have picks and flexibility (Full MLE).
I like Bertans, but feel he is a luxury that can net us a solid pick and also opens up the Full MLE for us to use.

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[nate33]

it's not just that he isn't good; it's how much $$ he is guaranteed this year & next.

My thinking is that we would be gambling that Bagley figures things out and starts to live up to his draft pedigree. Sometimes, big men just take a while for things to click.

But then I went back through the draft and looked for big men who were drafted high and disappointed in their first 3 years and then put it together afterwards. The only one I could find is Julius Randle. Just about everyone else who disappointed early remained disappointing: Biyombo, Kanter, Monroe, D.Williams, Vesely, T.Robinson, A.Bennett, Jabari, Okafor, WCS, Marquese Chris, the list is long.

So, nevermind. I officially rescind my approval of the trade. Bagley is a bust and is almost certain to remain a bust.