"We Tried So Hard, and (Haven't) Got so Far, But in the End, It Doesn't Even Matter" Trade Thread

[Feed Your Head]

I gotta say, if there was a mod rankings for derailing threads, I’d come in first.

Just be thankful they've stopped offering me a mod spot. I think we're all better for it lol.

This place would have been a Hayward slander free wasteland.

[Fierce1]

Okay, let’s play a little game.

If you believe what you just posted, why do you want to trade him?

Not a good fit with the Jays.

[Parliament10]

I'm still all-in on the Smart/Nesmith/Brown/Tatum/Timelord championship starting lineup. Won't give up on it until they're no longer all on the team. And probably not even then.

I like it. Do you think that Smart will be our Starting PG, of the future?
Nesmith, or Langford (if he ever gets back to playing).

I'm still a little nervous about Smart's longevity, with his wrecking-ball playstyle. But I'm really liking his PG play, and I think he gets better the fewer shots he needs to take, and I'm envisioning a future where Nesmith is basically a Klay Thompson level shooter, because why not, and Brown and Tatum are both offensive dynamos...

Basically I'm setting myself up for disappointment. But I don't care.

Smart is so good as our Super 6th-Man, that I never really thought of him as a permanent Starting PG.
But, that could work. I can see Payton Pritchard taking up the 2nd Unit.

But, who would be our 6th-Man?
Celtics revolutionized that player/position.

[Fierce1]

Okay say its

Bos: Kemba, Semi, 2 1st round picks

Pels: Lonzo, Bledsoe, Gabriel

I added in Semi because he is an actual player the Pels could use since Ingram is only wing on the team.

Even with that on the table, the only way I see the Pels accepting it is if they had an under the table agreement with Kemba that he would not pickup his player option after next season.

But even then, thats not that appealing of a return for the Pels. It would be much smarter for the Pels to flip Lonzo with some of the draft picks they already have for a player that fits with Zion/Ingram, instead of flipping Lonzo for essentially 2 late 1st round picks.

Again I hate to sound like a broken record, I think it would be much easier and make a lot more sense to find a 3rd team that would take Kemba. Instead of trying to find ways for the Pels to take Kemba.

Yeah, if a 3rd team is needed then find a 3rd a team.

[SMTBSI]

I like it. Do you think that Smart will be our Starting PG, of the future?
Nesmith, or Langford (if he ever gets back to playing).

I'm still a little nervous about Smart's longevity, with his wrecking-ball playstyle. But I'm really liking his PG play, and I think he gets better the fewer shots he needs to take, and I'm envisioning a future where Nesmith is basically a Klay Thompson level shooter, because why not, and Brown and Tatum are both offensive dynamos...

Basically I'm setting myself up for disappointment. But I don't care.

Smart is so good as our Super 6th-Man, that I never really thought of him as a permanent Starting PG.
But, that could work. I can see Payton Pritchard taking up the 2nd Unit.

But, who would be our 6th-Man?
Celtics revolutionized that player/position.

Here's where I begin to run out of steam.

Easy answer is "a player who hasn't been drafted yet".

Darkhorse: Semi Ojeleye

[Feed Your Head]

I gotta say, if there was a mod rankings for derailing threads, I’d come in first.

Still can’t believe they made you a mod.

What were they thinking?

[Fierce1]

Watching the Kings vs. Hawks game.

Both teams bad defensively.

Rondo still a very good player.

There's no reason why Harrison Barnes is not available because it's very clear the Kings are not a playoff team.

[Feed Your Head]

Okay, let’s play a little game.

If you believe what you just posted, why do you want to trade him?

Not a good fit with the Jays.

So why would the Pelicans want him? They have their own young star duo.

[reload141]

In that situation, the Pels still end up paying big bucks to a PG though because Kemba still will have 2 years left after this season. And I think the Pels could get back a better return than just Kemba for primarily a veteran presence.

Again if Im the Celtics, I really like the idea of using Kemba to get Lonzo. I just think for any chance of this happening, a 3rd team would be needed to take on Kemba. I just dont see any reason the Pels would want him.

The Pels might be interested if the Celts offer 2 1st round picks.

Okay say its

Bos: Kemba, Semi, 2 1st round picks

Pels: Lonzo, Bledsoe, Gabriel

I added in Semi because he is an actual player the Pels could use since Ingram is only wing on the team.

Even with that on the table, the only way I see the Pels accepting it is if they had an under the table agreement with Kemba that he would not pickup his player option after next season.

But even then, thats not that appealing of a return for the Pels. It would be much smarter for the Pels to flip Lonzo with some of the draft picks they already have for a player that fits with Zion/Ingram, instead of flipping Lonzo for essentially 2 late 1st round picks.

Again I hate to sound like a broken record, I think it would be much easier and make a lot more sense to find a 3rd team that would take Kemba. Instead of trying to find ways for the Pels to take Kemba.

Honestly I think it’s kind of pointless talking about a Kemba trade ATM.... he’s rehabbing his value for sure but it’s going to be an offseason deal.. that’s also why I don’t think we’ll do much before deadline.. a lot more action can be had in the offseason for us and probably should happen then

[Duke4life831]

That was when Kemba was not healthy.

But if the Pels don't want to do a deal then Celts just move on.

But its not like Kemba's play so far this year has bumped up his value from the summer.

Kemba Walker has been playing pretty well. I personally believe a ton of teams would be interested in Kemba and if he made $22-23 million per year. Kemba Walker at $37 million per year no team is interested including the Celtics

Maybe I’m wrong but that’s my opinion

That's the thing, I dont think the Pels would be one of those teams. Again Ive watched every Pels game this season (watched every game the last 2 seasons), its beyond obvious the path they're going. The offense runs through Zion and Ingram, they started that direction late January/early Feb and its clear as day it works. It would make no sense for them to try and throw in an on ball, score 1st PG into the situation. The Pels have figured out the offense with their young guys, its now on Griffin to find role players that can defend that can plug into that offense as well. Getting a guy like Kemba makes no sense, no matter the cap hit.

[Fierce1]

So why would the Pelicans want him? They have their own young star duo.

The young star duo of the Pels are not iso players like the Jays.

[Parliament10]

I'm still a little nervous about Smart's longevity, with his wrecking-ball playstyle. But I'm really liking his PG play, and I think he gets better the fewer shots he needs to take, and I'm envisioning a future where Nesmith is basically a Klay Thompson level shooter, because why not, and Brown and Tatum are both offensive dynamos...

Basically I'm setting myself up for disappointment. But I don't care.

Smart is so good as our Super 6th-Man, that I never really thought of him as a permanent Starting PG.
But, that could work. I can see Payton Pritchard taking up the 2nd Unit.

But, who would be our 6th-Man?
Celtics revolutionized that player/position.

Here's where I begin to run out of steam.

Easy answer is "a player who hasn't been drafted yet".

Darkhorse: Semi Ojeleye

Yeah. It'd likely be someone who is not on the team at present.
That 6th-Man position is hard to button down. Most people want to Start, and then don't want to relinquish that.

I, personally, feel much better with Smart staying in the Super 6th-Man position.

[31to6]

After years of wanting us to turn the keys over to JB and JT, I’m not loving the early returns. I’m willing to wait, or make a move if there’s one that sets us up for a better future. KAT and Sabonis are two of the only guys I can think of who might fit that criteria.

Kemba still touches the ball a lot, he's second in touches and 1st in time per possession and you still have plenty of games where Kemba is taking 18-20 shots in a game. So there is still plenty of offense to get handed over to Tatum and Brown for them to be the true #1 and #2 guys on the offense.

So ideally I would like to see them just officially hand the keys to them and see what they could do. But you cant do that with a ball oriented score first PG like Kemba in the lineup. That is why I do agree if the route to be chosen was to officially hand the keys to Tatum/Brown and not look back, Lonzo is the ideal PG for that scenario.

But with that said, I do agree with what youre saying. Im not sure I want to see more offensive responsibilities handed to those two. Im a huge Tatum fan, but we have yet to see him be a high volume scorer and an above-average efficient scorer at the same time for long periods. And with Brown Im not sold in his offensive creativity of him being a guy that can consistently create his own shot against a set defense in the half court.

Re: Kemba I was horrified by his signing. We can look good with him, but it’s rare, and he and the Jays are far less than the sum of the parts. I’d love Lonzo — or heck just Smart — in his place, but it’s water under the bridge now.

I feel like this year sucks, because it’s a development year we didn’t realize we needed: our two young stars need to figure out how to wear the crowns of being “the guys” and still play winning basketball. They’ve had a ton of success early in their careers, but with the help of a ton of vets who have now finally mostly left for nothing. They, for the first time, are where a lot of talented young NBA “stars” find themselves — surrounded by young teammates who mostly kind of suck. Can they handle the daily grind of that, while maintaining positive leadership energy, playing well, and doing all the right things? Can they avoid the temptation to have to lead the team in scoring, or develop their own “brands”, or whatever else might distract them? Can they keep making an impact on both sides of the floor and keep this team surprising people every playoffs?

I’d love to bring in another good vet or two — Barnes, Aaron Gordon, etc. — to help them out with this. Regardless though, that’s the task for this year.

It’d make a lot of a sense if we developed our young guys — Pritchard, Nesmith, Langford, RWilliams, TACKO — at the same time too.

(Not you, Semi, you mostly suck)

[Feed Your Head]

So why would the Pelicans want him? They have their own young star duo.

The young star duo of the Pels are not iso players like the Jays.

Incorrect.

Jaylen is unassisted on 50% of his baskets.
Tatum is unassisted on 67% of his baskets.
Ingram is unassisted on 56% of his baskets.
Zion is unassisted on 42% of his baskets.

[Duke4life831]

Okay, let’s play a little game.

If you believe what you just posted, why do you want to trade him?

Not a good fit with the Jays.

So why would the Pelicans want him? They have their own young star duo.

Exactly. And there is far less question marks with that young duo on the offensive end, than with the Celtics young duo. Not saying its a better young duo overall (dont run me out of town haha). But on the offensive end, they have Zion who has already shown to be a high volume scorer on ridiculous efficiency. And you got Ingram who has shown now for practically 2 seasons (showed it the last month with LA) that ya, you can throw him the ball in the half court and he can create his own shot consistently. Now they arent nearly the defenders that Tatum and Brown are, its not even close on that end.

But ya, the Pels have clearly made that move of the keys to the car are in Zion's/Ingram's hands. So Kemba's fit with the Pels is even worse than his fit currently with the Celtics.

[GoCeltics123]

I wonder if we were to rank the most likely to least likely Celtics trade targets, where would they be? Before we all get our hopes crushed when Ainge likely does nothing lol

IMO my list:

Ellington
Nance Jr.
Barnes
Gordon
Collins
Lonzo
Drummond

[SMTBSI]

Smart is so good as our Super 6th-Man, that I never really thought of him as a permanent Starting PG.
But, that could work. I can see Payton Pritchard taking up the 2nd Unit.

But, who would be our 6th-Man?
Celtics revolutionized that player/position.

Here's where I begin to run out of steam.

Easy answer is "a player who hasn't been drafted yet".

Darkhorse: Semi Ojeleye

Yeah. It'd likely be someone who is not on the team at present.
That 6th-Man position is hard to button down. Most people want to Start, and then don't want to relinquish that.

I, personally, feel much better with Smart staying in the Super 6th-Man position.

That's the biggest impediment to my idea. It's not every day you find someone who will just do absolutely whatever it takes, and doesn't care about the optics of starting at all (and can backup 3.5 positions to boot). When you find one, you kinda want to take advantage of it.

[Fierce1]

Wrong, Ingram goes ISO 6% of the time more than Jaylen. Zion goes ISO quite a bit himself, only 58% of his baskets are assisted.

Then Celts move on.

Although I want Kemba traded, I also understand that it will be hard to do.

That's why a good compromise is Ainge make a move to make the team better.

Kemba was a mistake and it looks like the Celts will be stuck with Kemba for a while.

[Celts17Pride]

But its not like Kemba's play so far this year has bumped up his value from the summer.

Kemba Walker has been playing pretty well. I personally believe a ton of teams would be interested in Kemba and if he made $22-23 million per year. Kemba Walker at $37 million per year no team is interested including the Celtics

Maybe I’m wrong but that’s my opinion

That's the thing, I dont think the Pels would be one of those teams. Again Ive watched every Pels game this season (watched every game the last 2 seasons), its beyond obvious the path they're going. The offense runs through Zion and Ingram, they started that direction late January/early Feb and its clear as day it works. It would make no sense for them to try and throw in an on ball, score 1st PG into the situation. The Pels have figured out the offense with their young guys, its now on Griffin to find role players that can defend that can plug into that offense as well. Getting a guy like Kemba makes no sense, no matter the cap hit.

Sorry about that, I wasn’t really talking about the Pels. I was just saying the market would probably be 4-8 other teams

[Parliament10]

After years of wanting us to turn the keys over to JB and JT, I’m not loving the early returns. I’m willing to wait, or make a move if there’s one that sets us up for a better future. KAT and Sabonis are two of the only guys I can think of who might fit that criteria.

Kemba still touches the ball a lot, he's second in touches and 1st in time per possession and you still have plenty of games where Kemba is taking 18-20 shots in a game. So there is still plenty of offense to get handed over to Tatum and Brown for them to be the true #1 and #2 guys on the offense.

So ideally I would like to see them just officially hand the keys to them and see what they could do. But you cant do that with a ball oriented score first PG like Kemba in the lineup. That is why I do agree if the route to be chosen was to officially hand the keys to Tatum/Brown and not look back, Lonzo is the ideal PG for that scenario.

But with that said, I do agree with what youre saying. Im not sure I want to see more offensive responsibilities handed to those two. Im a huge Tatum fan, but we have yet to see him be a high volume scorer and an above-average efficient scorer at the same time for long periods. And with Brown Im not sold in his offensive creativity of him being a guy that can consistently create his own shot against a set defense in the half court.

Re: Kemba I was horrified by his signing. We can look good with him, but it’s rare, and he and the Jays are far less than the sum of the parts. I’d love Lonzo — or heck just Smart — in his place, but it’s water under the bridge now.

I feel like this year sucks, because it’s a development year we didn’t realize we needed: our two young stars need to figure out how to wear the crowns of being “the guys” and still play winning basketball. They’ve had a ton of success early in their careers, but with the help of a ton of vets who have now finally mostly left for nothing. They, for the first time, are where a lot of talented young NBA “stars” find themselves — surrounded by young teammates who mostly kind of suck. Can they handle the daily grind of that, while maintaining positive leadership energy, playing well, and doing all the right things? Can they avoid the temptation to have to lead the team in scoring, or develop their own “brands”, or whatever else might distract them? Can they keep making an impact on both sides of the floor and keep this team surprising people every playoffs?

I’d love to bring in another good vet or two — Barnes, Aaron Gordon, etc. — to help them out with this. Regardless though, that’s the task for this year.

It’d make a lot of a sense if we developed our young guys — Pritchard, Nesmith, Langford, RWilliams, TACKO — at the same time too.

(Not you, Semi, you mostly suck)

Kembs instability throws it out of whack. As did Hayward's and Kyrie's. We really didn't need any of them.
It just didn't work out, for whatever reasons.