"We Tried So Hard, and (Haven't) Got so Far, But in the End, It Doesn't Even Matter" Trade Thread

[sully00]

Vucevic is not really an Ainge move but who knows what he is up to right now. I’m definitely not expecting a Vucevic trade to Boston

It makes sense in some respects but his age and lack of defensive ability are a head scratcher. They have been interested in him before. Maybe they are looking to make Embiid defend.

I have been wondering if they are trying to flip him for someone else. A team wants Vuc but doesn't have the type of assets ORL wants but has a player BOS would want more.

Maybe it is a situation where SAC wants Vucevic and ORL wants picks and young players and SAC wants to move out Hield or Barnes.

[Fierce1]

https://hoopshype.com/lists/nba-trade-rumors-lamarcus-aldridge-kyle-lowry-ricky-rubio/

Miami is expected to have competition from several teams hoping to acquire Aldridge to improve their playoff chances. Some executives around the league who spoke with HoopsHype believe the Boston Celtics could join the mix to acquire Aldridge using their $28.5 million trade exception despite Danny Ainge recently suggesting the team will most likely use the exception during the offseason.

Aldridge earns $24 million this season. The Celtics are roughly $19.9 million below the hard cap and would need to send out $4.1 million in salary to San Antonio to stay below the hard cap according to our salary cap expert Yossi Gozlan.

Boston has also been linked to several frontcourt players including Kings forward Harrison Barnes, Pistons forward Jerami Grant, and Magic center Nikola Vucevic.

[Fierce1]

LMA?

Really?

[MagicBagley18]

Ainge already said like 5x he’s not using the tpe on a rental ....complete non story

[Celts17Pride]

Using the TPE on LMA is equivalent to taking the TPE and flushing it down the toilet. Agree with MB18 complete non story

[Fierce1]

Agree with both of you.

That's why it's amusing to see rumors like that.

[Jammer]

Jackie Mac speculating that Barnes will cost PP and a pick. Im good with that price.

Pritch's game went to sh*t the day Kemba returned to the lineup, but the Celtics as a team went to sh*t within 1 minute of Kemba returning to the lineup, so you know where I stand on who should be the First Celtic in any trade.

[mrmorrill]

Imo more and more I'm thinking about it, Barnes is not worth more than 2021 first and Thompson.

The more the Kings lose, the lower the price of Barnes go.

Only reason why Barnes was thought to be expensive was the Kings were going to make a playoff push.
So why would the Kings trade Barnes when he's a productive player and the Kings are going to make a playoff run.

But things have changed.
Right now the Kings are bad and will most likely miss the playoffs again.

Clearly Barnes is not as valuable to the Kings anymore.

Yeah but then you run into the fact that the price goes down for everyone and then bidding can drive the price back up.

I originally said TT and a first, but I'm fine with Romeo or Nesmith plus a first for Barnes just to get it done and avoid a team like Denver coming in and snagging him or driving the price back up. Ideally expand it to get Whiteside and Bjelica for Semi and TT. Call it a day.

Think Barnes does well in the role we have for him and could be traded as part of a larger package down the line for some/most of the value we give up to get him.

Is Whiteside going to offer more then TT though? Or is it a lateral move to nab Bjelica also?

[Jammer]

Can't understand the Teague hate. Jeff is a vet minimum salary player. But then I can't understand the Kemba love, who everyone else has to help out on the defensive end plus Kemba can't finish in traffic.

[zoyathedestroya]

Read on Twitter

Pat Riley stole Cave's idea.

[cl2117]

The more the Kings lose, the lower the price of Barnes go.

Only reason why Barnes was thought to be expensive was the Kings were going to make a playoff push.
So why would the Kings trade Barnes when he's a productive player and the Kings are going to make a playoff run.

But things have changed.
Right now the Kings are bad and will most likely miss the playoffs again.

Clearly Barnes is not as valuable to the Kings anymore.

Yeah but then you run into the fact that the price goes down for everyone and then bidding can drive the price back up.

I originally said TT and a first, but I'm fine with Romeo or Nesmith plus a first for Barnes just to get it done and avoid a team like Denver coming in and snagging him or driving the price back up. Ideally expand it to get Whiteside and Bjelica for Semi and TT. Call it a day.

Think Barnes does well in the role we have for him and could be traded as part of a larger package down the line for some/most of the value we give up to get him.

Is Whiteside going to offer more then TT though? Or is it a lateral move to nab Bjelica also?

Bjelica/tax savings. Think shipping TT/Nesmith/Semi and getting back Barnes/Bjelica/Whiteside just barely keeps us below the lux tax. Bjelica gives us a stretch 4 and hopefully we give Rob more minutes with TT gone and Whiteside as just an insurance big.

[Celts17Pride]

Seems to me Tristan Thompson would be a good fit on the Knicks who are looking for a big man. Tough coming up with a trade with the Knicks.

Thompson, Edwards for Burks, Rivers?

Side note: I think RW3’s recent play has made TT very available

[Feed Your Head]

The young star duo of the Pels are not iso players like the Jays.

Zion and BI? They are both ISO heavy players for sure. Maybe slightly ahead of the Jay bays in the natural playmaking department but still very much ISO players.

Edit: didn’t finish reading this thread so I didn’t see that this was already covered extensively lol wasn’t trying to pile on sorry.

The difference is how they iso.

When Ingram and Zion iso, they take a couple of dribbles then attack the basket or shoot.

What makes the iso of Tatum and Brown bad is it's like they're playing street basketball.
They dribble a lot and end up using most of the shot clock.
Tatum is better because usually he ends up making the shot.
But Jaylen has this tendency of over dribbling then ends up taking a forced shot or making a bad pass when he can't get a shot off.

This has been proven wrong multiple times, don’t know why you keep doubling down. Jaylen holds the ball and dribbles far less than Ingram.

Also, Jaylen has been more efficient than Tatum in ISO this year last I checked. Yeah it’s because he’s facing secondary defenders, but your point still is incorrect.

[chrisab123]

There's no way Danny stands pat with this version of the team. Their play is putrid. Team has little talent and no identity. Danny will do his job

Danny Ainge has not swung a single deadline deal since IT. That trend will continue this year unless he decides to sit Brad down and force him in incorporate a mid season acquisition into his college program. Its tough seeing a GM and coach openly waste two stars the way the Celtics are. Get some help for the stars please.

Dude, I asked you days ago to simply name a few of these mystical trades that the Cs could do..... crickets. Can you post a few realistic deals that you would make right now for big name players otherwise there probably aren't any to make. Can you name even one?

Did I not put a proposal for Vuc in my post a few days ago? You just chose to overlook it. Not my issue.

Here's another one Teague and Semi for PJ Tucker.

[Fierce1]

This has been proven wrong multiple times, don’t know why you keep doubling down. Jaylen holds the ball and dribbles far less than Ingram.

Also, Jaylen has been more efficient than Tatum in ISO this year last I checked. Yeah it’s because he’s facing secondary defenders, but your point still is incorrect.

Let's just agree to disagree on this subject because the stats really don't tell the whole story.

Your stats don't show what Jaylen does when he isos.
Did Jaylen end up scoring when he goes iso?
Or did Jaylen turn the ball over?
Maybe Jaylen threw a bad pass after he couldn't get a shot off?

There are so many other factors that your stats don't show.
Like does Jaylen iso early in the shot clock or does Jaylen iso in the 1st qtr. or 4th qtr.?

I played basketball and was an assistant coach in the 1990s, so relying on stats alone is only half the story.

[31to6]

Still cut up about this.

It really does look like he is saying, "It's Okongwu time!"

I’m curious what Ainge’s draft board looked like.
I mean obviously it would’ve had Pritchard at #1, but where were Wiseman, Okongwu, Nesmith, Bane?

[Curmudgeon]

Is it Boogie time yet?

[Feed Your Head]

This has been proven wrong multiple times, don’t know why you keep doubling down. Jaylen holds the ball and dribbles far less than Ingram.

Also, Jaylen has been more efficient than Tatum in ISO this year last I checked. Yeah it’s because he’s facing secondary defenders, but your point still is incorrect.

Let's just agree to disagree on this subject because the stats really don't tell the whole story.

Your stats don't show what Jaylen does when he isos.
Did Jaylen end up scoring when he goes iso?
Or did Jaylen turn the ball over?
Maybe Jaylen threw a bad pass after he couldn't get a shot off?

There are so many other factors that your stats don't show.
Like does Jaylen iso early in the shot clock or does Jaylen iso in the 1st qtr. or 4th qtr.?

I played basketball and was an assistant coach in the 1990s, so relying on stats alone is only half the story.

They actually do have stats for it. Here are Jaylens numbers when he goes ISO.

He only goes ISO 7.5% of the time.
.80 points per possession/39% from the field.
11.7% TO rate, right in line with his season number
Scores 38% of the time, is in the 31st percentile. He wasn’t a good iso player last year either, was in the 43rd percentile.

Ingram goes ISO 12.9% of the time.
Scores 46% of the time, in the 66th percentile.

Zion also goes ISO more than Jaylen, at 10.3% of the time. Scores 58% of the time, is in the 83rd percentile.

Tatum goes iso a ridiculous 18.7% of the time, and is the 35th percentile. That’s with him trending up from a few weeks ago, at least. Last year he was in the 76th percentile, and went iso on 16% of his possessions, we need him to get closer to there.

Both Zion/Ingram go iso more than Jaylen, and they both hold the ball longer/dribble the ball more than Jaylen on their scoring possessions. There is no way you can spin it otherwise, though I’m sure you’ll try.

[Fierce1]

They actually do have stats for it. Here are Jaylens numbers when he goes ISO.

He only goes ISO 7.5% of the time.
.80 points per possession/39% from the field.
11.7% TO rate, right in line with his season number
Scores 38% of the time, is in the 31st percentile.

Ingram goes ISO on 12.9% of the time.
Scores 46% of the time, in the 66th percentile.

Zion also goes ISO more than Jaylen, at 10.3% of the time. Scores 58% of the time, is in the 83rd percentile.

Tatum goes iso a ridiculous 18.7% of the time, and is the 35th percentile. That’s with him trending up from a few weeks ago, at least.

Both Zion/Ingram go iso more than Jaylen, and they both hold the ball longer/dribble the ball more than Jaylen on their scoring possessions.

That's what I mean about the eye test.

Jaylen looks bad when he goes iso because he only scores 38% of the time.

Ingram scores 46% of the time.

So Ingram is more efficient.

Zion at 83rd percentile is high.

That's why you'll not get the impression that Zion is hogging the ball.

I don't think going iso is a bad thing if you're efficient.
The problem with the iso players of the Celts is they're not efficient.

[Feed Your Head]

They actually do have stats for it. Here are Jaylens numbers when he goes ISO.

He only goes ISO 7.5% of the time.
.80 points per possession/39% from the field.
11.7% TO rate, right in line with his season number
Scores 38% of the time, is in the 31st percentile.

Ingram goes ISO on 12.9% of the time.
Scores 46% of the time, in the 66th percentile.

Zion also goes ISO more than Jaylen, at 10.3% of the time. Scores 58% of the time, is in the 83rd percentile.

Tatum goes iso a ridiculous 18.7% of the time, and is the 35th percentile. That’s with him trending up from a few weeks ago, at least.

Both Zion/Ingram go iso more than Jaylen, and they both hold the ball longer/dribble the ball more than Jaylen on their scoring possessions.

That's what I mean about the eye test.

Jaylen looks bad when he goes iso because he only scores 38% of the time.

Ingram scores 46% of the time.

So Ingram is more efficient.

Zion at 83rd percentile is high.

That's why you'll not get the impression that Zion is hogging the ball.

I don't think going iso is a bad thing if you're efficient.
The problem with the iso players of the Celts is they're not efficient.

Sure, the Jays are bad in ISO this season. Everyone already knew that though, is common knowledge.

Are you going to admit that Jaylen dribbles and holds the ball far less than Ingram and Zion? For all my issues with Jaylen, him going ISO too much or holding the ball too long isn’t it.