Free Agency, Rumors, Thoughts in General 2.0

[babyjax13]

Not sure why the Pistons would want Gordon with Grant already on the team. But even if they do I suspect it's unlikely Orlando goes for that package. Arguably the best part is Doumbouya and they don't need to prioritize another combo forward.

I actually think they'd be a nice tandem, and Gordon is young enough that he can be a part of their long-term core. Perhaps it has to be a three-way trade, but I'd love to see Detroit end up with him + another nice player in the draft (say, Green or Suggs if they aren't drafting first). Maybe something like Hayes + something for Gordon + protected ORL 1st that likely conveys in 2023 [something like lottery protected, 1-10, 1-8, unprotected]?

[shangrila]

Hearing that the Kings may be trying to get Kevin Love. I have no idea why, but if they do trade for him, I'm assuming it's going to be a multi-team trade where Hield is moved elsewhere. May end up just being Bjelica, Joseph and Jabari Parker though.

That's interesting if you combine it with that Barnes to Celtics rumour from last week. Maybe something like Barnes to Celts, minor assets to Cavs from Celts, Love to Kings. Celts and Kings get their guys and Cavs save a ton of capspace while picking up something.

[jbk1234]

Hearing that the Kings may be trying to get Kevin Love. I have no idea why, but if they do trade for him, I'm assuming it's going to be a multi-team trade where Hield is moved elsewhere. May end up just being Bjelica, Joseph and Jabari Parker though.

That's interesting if you combine it with that Barnes to Celtics rumour from last week. Maybe something like Barnes to Celts, minor assets to Cavs from Celts, Love to Kings. Celts and Kings get their guys and Cavs save a ton of capspace while picking up something.

If Barnes has negative value in this scenario, and he doesn't, Cavs just take back Barnes and keep the minor assets.

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[HartfordWhalers]

I have Barnes having massively more value than Love.

[jayu70]

Love played 2 minutes last night vs Hawks and left the game, said he didn't feel right from his calf injury that has plagued him.all season. How long before he returns? Barnes>Love

[shangrila]

Hearing that the Kings may be trying to get Kevin Love. I have no idea why, but if they do trade for him, I'm assuming it's going to be a multi-team trade where Hield is moved elsewhere. May end up just being Bjelica, Joseph and Jabari Parker though.

That's interesting if you combine it with that Barnes to Celtics rumour from last week. Maybe something like Barnes to Celts, minor assets to Cavs from Celts, Love to Kings. Celts and Kings get their guys and Cavs save a ton of capspace while picking up something.

If Barnes has negative value in this scenario, and he doesn't, Cavs just take back Barnes and keep the minor assets.

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How'd you get Barnes having negative value? I sure wasn't implying that.

The idea was based around the Kings valuing Love. If they think he's worth Barnes, or close enough that some Boston assets could bridge the gap, then it's an easier way to acquire him than trying to make up the money elsewhere. Boston gets the guy they're rumoured to be interested in using their TPE and a couple of their assets while Cleveland picks up a young guy from Boston, maybe some 2nds, and gets out from under Love's contract.

I'll admit I'm not sure on the value of most of these pieces though. I don't know how much Boston should add to get Barnes, or how much Cleveland values Love and possibly getting off his contract. Nor do I understand why the Kings would be interested in Love at all, so I don't know how to value him from their perspective.

[BlazersBroncos]

I dont think its Barnes > Love. I think its Barnes >>> Love. Its not really close.

[BullyKing]

Assuming the rumor that the Kings like Love is true, for reasons I cannot even begin to fathom, did Tristan Thompson leave Cleveland on good terms?

If so, maybe something like:

Celtics 2nd and Thompson to Cavs
Nesmith and 1st to Kings
Barnes to Celtics (I have the Celtics paying a bit of a premium to get out of the tax).

[jbk1234]

I don't believe any team is actually interested in Love. I think they're interested in things like getting off of Buddy Heild's contract and/or a prospect.

For a host of reasons, it makes zero sense for the Cavs to trade him now, when he can't play more than 10 minutes without aggravating whatever is going on with his calf, assuming that's the issue.

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[kobe_vs_jordan]

Oh sure. I’m with you on that. I just don’t see him being worth a max contract. I think a max will put him in the bad contract category. I think $100/4 would be fine to a team prying him away, but the Hawks are smart to be far away from the max right now. I currently think their best option is to trade him and let another team overpay him.

Don’t get me wrong, I like Collins and think he’s a good player. I just think he’s going to be overpaid this offseason. You mentioned that there aren’t 30 max players in the league and I agree with you. I also don’t think I see Collins higher than 45 and that sounds really high in my head.

Think being a max player and being worth a max is two different ideas. RFA are generally overpaid . A lot of guys are max or super max players but only a few are worth it.

I understand that full and well. RFAs are overpaid because of the exterior pressure that it takes to pry the rights from the incumbent team. Then the new team hopes that the player can improve to the point of being worth it.

I also want to point out that I believe I was working off of old information when I thought that Collins was seeking the max. Apparently he’s seeking $100 million over 4years. I believe he will get it, but it will be an overpay as I’ve said. The team getting him will be happy they got him because they have to be. I just think he’s worth $20 million less. The Hawks should still pursue a trade.

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?s=21

I agree but I am a Bit surprised Hawks not paying 100 million. Not a bargain but not crazy enough for me to say no from a team that needs talent.

[kobe_vs_jordan]

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[Buzzard]

Think being a max player and being worth a max is two different ideas. RFA are generally overpaid . A lot of guys are max or super max players but only a few are worth it.

I understand that full and well. RFAs are overpaid because of the exterior pressure that it takes to pry the rights from the incumbent team. Then the new team hopes that the player can improve to the point of being worth it.

I also want to point out that I believe I was working off of old information when I thought that Collins was seeking the max. Apparently he’s seeking $100 million over 4years. I believe he will get it, but it will be an overpay as I’ve said. The team getting him will be happy they got him because they have to be. I just think he’s worth $20 million less. The Hawks should still pursue a trade.

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?s=21

I agree but I am a Bit surprised Hawks not paying 100 million. Not a bargain but not crazy enough for me to say no from a team that needs talent.

I think this is why that right up until the last hour things were getting out that they were close. 4 @ 90 is not far from 4 @ 100. But that 100 is still a great deal more than what Sabonis and Turner got. I think that is why the Hawks thought their offer was fair vs the market. Schlenk said in a interview they will go back to the table once they can. So we will see.

[loserX]

ESPN article about some bubble teams:

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/31069675/2021-nba-trade-deadline-league-insiders-say-whether-teams-acquire-unload-stand-pat

Bullet points:
- league insiders say Atlanta is buying.
- on John Collins: '"[Atlanta] are worried he's getting maxed, and they're putting it out there they are willing to pay him if he gets a max but won't be thrilled about it," said an East executive.'
- insiders think Chicago is probably buying, but there's interest in their players if they don't.
- Bulls are open to moving Markkanen if the offer is good enough...but would probably rather keep him.
- Execs are split on whether the Kings will move Barnes.
- Pelicans are ready to move on from Ball, Bledsoe and Redick. Redick's recent procedure may make him a buyout candidate instead.
- Still no clarity on what will happen to Kyle Lowry. Move or hold?
- As it has been for a while, no one really knows what Orlando is thinking. The feeling among other execs is that they will sell Fournier and hold Vucevic.

[Buzzard]

ESPN article about some bubble teams:

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/31069675/2021-nba-trade-deadline-league-insiders-say-whether-teams-acquire-unload-stand-pat

Bullet points:
- league insiders say Atlanta is buying.
- on John Collins: '"[Atlanta] are worried he's getting maxed, and they're putting it out there they are willing to pay him if he gets a max but won't be thrilled about it," said an East executive.'
- insiders think Chicago is probably buying, but there's interest in their players if they don't.
- Bulls are open to moving Markkanen if the offer is good enough...but would probably rather keep him.
- Execs are split on whether the Kings will move Barnes.
- Pelicans are ready to move on from Ball, Bledsoe and Redick. Redick's recent procedure may make him a buyout candidate instead.
- Still no clarity on what will happen to Kyle Lowry. Move or hold?
- As it has been for a while, no one really knows what Orlando is thinking. The feeling among other execs is that they will sell Fournier and hold Vucevic.

This is pretty much what has been regurgitated all season. The Hawks want Collins for less but will max him. They are all in on the playoffs and are potential buyers.

I don't see a lot out there for the Hawks to improve. Trae, Capela, Collins, and Hunter would be hard to improve on. So that leaves shooting guard as the primary position to upgrade. I am just not feeling a move for the Hawks at this deadline. It will be the first one since Schlenk took over that is quiet. So we will see.

[Texas Chuck]

I don't see a lot out there for the Hawks to improve. Trae, Capela, Collins, and Hunter would be hard to improve on. So that leaves shooting guard as the primary position to upgrade. I am just not feeling a move for the Hawks at this deadline. It will be the first one since Schlenk took over that is quiet. So we will see.

I mean Trae is basically impossible to improve upon. The few better PG's than him simply aren't available. The rest of those guys could definitely all be improved upon. Good players, but far from the best players at their positions.

But setting that aside because maybe you mean you are content with them for now and certainly could see potential growth in Collins and Hunter still, the team definitely needs a better backup PG still, definitely still needs another defensive wing. Upgrading the minutes played by Rondo, Reddish, Snell, Hill leaves plenty of room for improvement beyond just finding a better starting SG.

I still think the Hawks have a number of attractive pieces and good salary matching and they own all their own picks so I'd be trying to go for a major upgrade. Admittedly that's probably easier in the off-season than now. But Atlanta should be trying to be in the mix for the next star that moves.

[Buzzard]

I don't see a lot out there for the Hawks to improve. Trae, Capela, Collins, and Hunter would be hard to improve on. So that leaves shooting guard as the primary position to upgrade. I am just not feeling a move for the Hawks at this deadline. It will be the first one since Schlenk took over that is quiet. So we will see.

I mean Trae is basically impossible to improve upon. The few better PG's than him simply aren't available. The rest of those guys could definitely all be improved upon. Good players, but far from the best players at their positions.

But setting that aside because maybe you mean you are content with them for now and certainly could see potential growth in Collins and Hunter still, the team definitely needs a better backup PG still, definitely still needs another defensive wing. Upgrading the minutes played by Rondo, Reddish, Snell, Hill leaves plenty of room for improvement beyond just finding a better starting SG.

I still think the Hawks have a number of attractive pieces and good salary matching and they own all their own picks so I'd be trying to go for a major upgrade. Admittedly that's probably easier in the off-season than now. But Atlanta should be trying to be in the mix for the next star that moves.

That is why I said hard to improve on; not impossible. It would take a all star or near all star to improve on Capela, Collins, and Hunter. Its just the way it is. Now that the Hawks are in acquiring/upgrading talent mode vs bad contracts and picks, the trades will probably be less frequent. That is pretty much the gist of my statement.

Its much easier to find a team that wants to dump their bad contract than it is to find a team that wants to trade their near all star or all star player.

[HartfordWhalers]

3 2nds and Snell for Fournier?

Could be done with the OKC pick, but I expect there will be a freak out over the potential of it to be a 1st. Still might be better.

[Buzzard]

3 2nds and Snell for Fournier?

Could be done with the OKC pick, but I expect there will be a freak out over the potential of it to be a 1st. Still might be better.

I actually like that a lot. Still leaves wiggle room on the luxury with Fournier as a expiring.

[eminence]

What do y'all think GS would need to add to Oubre to get Turner? What's his value at these days? Either Wiseman or the MIN pick strike me as just a bit rich initially, but probably within the right range, concerned I may be biased though.

[BullyKing]

What do y'all think GS would need to add to Oubre to get Turner? What's his value at these days? Either Wiseman or the MIN pick strike me as just a bit rich initially, but probably within the right range, concerned I may be biased though.

I think you've got the right range