Way too early NBA draft thread 2021

[GimmeDat]

I'm sorry I haven't been as active as I have in previous years in this thread. In all honesty, I've been working on a bunch of basketball related ventures here in Aus and I'm not as well versed in the draft class as I usually am (though I'm hoping to find the time to binge hard and get my head around this class soon).

One person I can lend insight on this year is Giddey. I watched a ton of him prior to NBL, and have watched all his NBL games in full, including every game in person for the last few weeks (been playing every other day in the Melbourne NBL cup/hub).

Shooting wise he's coming along (refer below). The form needs considerable tweaking, but he's not a non-shooter. I think he's already at a level where he can make the defense pay semi-consistently for going under, and he can also pull-up and shoot over guys in the mid-range with his size.

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He measured in the latest NBA Academy event at 6'7.5 without shoes... we'll have to see measurements closer to the draft, but going by that figure, he's essentially 6'9, and a legit PG.

Whether he can defend PG's, it's hard to say. He is limited as an athlete, certainly. He plays quite long despite lacking a big wingspan, and he has really good instincts 'stock' wise and good rates for those. I think what position he defends in the NBA is a fair question mark.

Offensively, he makes up for his lack of conventional athleticism with great savviness, deception and change of pace. It's not on a Doncic level, but I would make the point that if you're going to right off a guy offensively because of athletic limitations, remember that many did about Doncic as well, and the aforementioned factors meant that he's still deadly offensively and can get to his spots. He gets to the rim and is finishing at a good %.

Awesome, awesome passer. Both hands, great use of angles and timing. Clear standout skill.

Production wise, he is pretty much doing what LaMelo did last year in the NBL but without the crazy scoring usage rate. He's on a better team and leading them to wins. We'll see if he keeps up his hot form right now.. he'll have to keep shooting it at a high level.

If you think of a guy like RJ Hampton, who is admittedly was a rawer/toolsier prospect, RJ's best game in his whole season here wasn't closer to what Giddey is pumping out night after night over this last stretch of the season, and RJ went in the 1st.

For some additional context, Giddey played on the NBA Global Academy team at plenty of events, with guys like Bennedict Mathurin, sometimes Efe Abogidi, etc., and he was the man on those teams, and those players are looking plenty promising in NCAA too.

Someone on the last page said I want to see him against NBA level guys, and that's fair, but just remember, NBL competition is probably closer to NBA competition than NCAA competition. He's going up against guys with NBA experience every night. As for the Olympic thing, I've heard the Australian coach is a big fan of him and he might be a legitimate chance to play on the Olympic roster. It's a big call, I was surprised by that info because I personally think he's not quite there yet (I mean, he's 18, and we have a team of basically all NBA level guys, including guys like Simmons, Mills, Dellavedova, Ingles playing on the ball), but we'll see how he finishes this season.

Right now I have him in the lottery. He's a bit unusual/unique, it'll be interesting to see if and how he translates, he will need to develop his strength and shoot the ball well in the long term, but ultimately, legit run your offense level initiator/PG types at his size are very rare, so it's something I would want to bet on.

[No-Man]

I like Giddey a lot but he is nowhere close the athlete Luka is/was, who is also so much more stronger, has a stop/start ability that is top level too

I do think Giddey belongs in the lotto convo but I don't buy him as a PG in the NBA and he has issues athletically on D mainly, like I said I don't think he plays on ball all the time at the next level, no chance at a legit initiator type, so I don't care as much about his lack of burst/ability to cover ground there but on defense it's certainly problematic, he just doesn't move well enough, could improve since he is so young still obviously

[StunnerKO]

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[DuckIII]

We don’t need a “pg”. We need a playmaker. Small forward is a fine spot for that.

If we obtain a playmaking small forward, it buys time on the point guard issue which can also be addressed in free agency or via trade.

We all know what the ideal guys would be like. Barring that, just get us some playmakers to install around Zach, PW and to a lesser and more uncertain extent Lauri and Coby.

[TheSuzerain]

We don’t need a “pg”. We need a playmaker. Small forward is a fine spot for that.

If we obtain a playmaking small forward, it buys time on the point guard issue which can also be addressed in free agency or via trade.

We all know what the ideal guys would be like. Barring that, just get us some playmakers to install around Zach, PW and to a lesser and more uncertain extent Lauri and Coby.

Watch on YouTube

SF passer/playmaker coming right up

[TheSuzerain]

And if you're drafting Giddey, it's certainly not to find out if he can guard PGs.

It's to play him next to someone like Frank Ntilikina who can guard the PGs and spot up off-ball.

[CaPiTanAK]

Give me Giddey, a potentially taller modern John Stockton.

[Chi town]

We don’t need a “pg”. We need a playmaker. Small forward is a fine spot for that.

If we obtain a playmaking small forward, it buys time on the point guard issue which can also be addressed in free agency or via trade.

We all know what the ideal guys would be like. Barring that, just get us some playmakers to install around Zach, PW and to a lesser and more uncertain extent Lauri and Coby.

Watch on YouTube

SF passer/playmaker coming right up

27% from 3. But 82% from the line.

I'd def pay him over Lonzo though. He can create in the halfcourt and I think he will be a better defender than Lonzo too.

Lavine
THT
PaW
Thad
Lauri

Coby, Wendell, Sato, Pick/Barnes

[Chi town]

And if you're drafting Giddey, it's certainly not to find out if he can guard PGs.

It's to play him next to someone like Frank Ntilikina who can guard the PGs and spot up off-ball.

Lavine can defend PG's. Can Giddey defend guards and wings?

[TheSuzerain]

And if you're drafting Giddey, it's certainly not to find out if he can guard PGs.

It's to play him next to someone like Frank Ntilikina who can guard the PGs and spot up off-ball.

Lavine can defend PG's. Can Giddey defend guards and wings?

Lavine can't defend PGs. Doesn't have the focus/instincts/grit to be the primary POA defender.

Giddey is going to have to defend random perimeter dudes at least passably.

[DroseReturnChi]

He measured in the latest NBA Academy event at 6'7.5 without shoes... we'll have to see measurements closer to the draft, but going by that figure, he's essentially 6'9, and a legit PG.

Whether he can defend PG's, it's hard to say. He is limited as an athlete, certainly. He plays quite long despite lacking a big wingspan, and he has really good instincts 'stock' wise and good rates for those. I think what position he defends in the NBA is a fair question mark.

Never heard of him but regardless he literally has only height advantage and not a plus shooter, defender, athlete which is a big no.
Hayes was similar in terms of raw and look at him getting bust labels. There is a reason why guy like Ayo is the top prospect who is basically Coby White dreamed of becoming as a combo guard with no real weakness. Suggs is the best traditional guard but even he struggles with scoring it could lower his NBA potential. Unless he pulls Lamelo and becomes a plus defender overnight as well as plus shooter, major bust. He has good intangibles so should postpone draft 2 yrs to become NBA ready.
Ayo is literally the only mid prospect considering bc he played the toughest competition not named the NBA and yet Illini is always disrespected he will still be there at 18-20 which is literally Hali type of steal compared to Suggs at 2.

[Almost Retired]

He measured in the latest NBA Academy event at 6'7.5 without shoes... we'll have to see measurements closer to the draft, but going by that figure, he's essentially 6'9, and a legit PG.

Whether he can defend PG's, it's hard to say. He is limited as an athlete, certainly. He plays quite long despite lacking a big wingspan, and he has really good instincts 'stock' wise and good rates for those. I think what position he defends in the NBA is a fair question mark.

Never heard of him but regardless he literally has only height advantage and not a plus shooter, defender, athlete which is a big no.
Hayes was similar in terms of raw and look at him getting bust labels. There is a reason why guy like Ayo is the top prospect who is basically Coby White dreamed of becoming as a combo guard with no real weakness. Suggs is the best traditional guard but even he struggles with scoring it could lower his NBA potential. Unless he pulls Lamelo and becomes a plus defender overnight as well as plus shooter, major bust. He has good intangibles so should postpone draft 2 yrs to become NBA ready.
Ayo is literally the only mid prospect considering bc he played the toughest competition not named the NBA and yet Illini is always disrespected he will still be there at 18-20 which is literally Hali type of steal compared to Suggs at 2.

I like Ayo. A lot. You could pair him up with Zach and terrorize the league. Both could play essentially a combo role. Taking turns driving or providing spacing by lurking at the arc. But if Ayo is gone by the time we pick, which could happen if he has a strong tournament, they have to look at Giddey. As GimmeDat says, his passing ability is elite. And he delivers his passes in a multitude of ways, with either hand. His instincts and BBIQ are exceptional for an 18 year old kid. And the highlight videos show a kid that does compete at the defensive end. With a few years of maturity and NBA strength training he would get stronger. Drew Hanlen could improve his shooting mechanics. Predicting a major bust on the kid is harsh, and premature considering his age. For some players seeing the floor and the situation with anticipatory clarity is as valuable as athleticism. Sometime just being able to play the game works out better in the end than all the athletic tangibles that get measured. How much better would the Bulls have been had they just drafted Lamarcus Aldridge instead of Tyrus Thomas? Larry Bird wasn't fast and he couldn't jump, yet he's in the Hall of Fame. Not comparing Giddey to him, but the analogy fits. There have been guys who were not world class athletes that had enough special talents about them that they had successful careers.

[MrSparkle]

We don’t need a “pg”. We need a playmaker. Small forward is a fine spot for that.

If we obtain a playmaking small forward, it buys time on the point guard issue which can also be addressed in free agency or via trade.

We all know what the ideal guys would be like. Barring that, just get us some playmakers to install around Zach, PW and to a lesser and more uncertain extent Lauri and Coby.

Watch on YouTube

SF passer/playmaker coming right up

27% from 3. But 82% from the line.

I'd def pay him over Lonzo though. He can create in the halfcourt and I think he will be a better defender than Lonzo too.

Lavine
THT
PaW
Thad
Lauri

Coby, Wendell, Sato, Pick/Barnes

I wonder what happens with THT. Lakers would be crazy to let him go IMO, but at the same time, it's risky paying him a bloated deal. They're in a contend-or-fail window with Lebron's age. He is perhaps the most interesting FA. From what I understand, Lakers are basically in the Bulls/Morey/Asik situation with him. We have the cap to max the back-end. The talent and potential is very good. I wonder if they'd trade for Lauri or Wendell.

[ThisGuyFawkes]

We don’t need a “pg”. We need a playmaker. Small forward is a fine spot for that.

If we obtain a playmaking small forward, it buys time on the point guard issue which can also be addressed in free agency or via trade.

We all know what the ideal guys would be like. Barring that, just get us some playmakers to install around Zach, PW and to a lesser and more uncertain extent Lauri and Coby.

I keep hearing people mention that we need to find a long-term Thad replacement. Giddey seems like he could be the big guy at the top of the key who facilitates the offense with vision and passing. His mid-range game is also pretty solid so he could really thrive in that role.

[TheFinishSniper]

Would it be bad if I am getting giddy? He should be available in our range 5-10

[DuckIII]

We don’t need a “pg”. We need a playmaker. Small forward is a fine spot for that.

If we obtain a playmaking small forward, it buys time on the point guard issue which can also be addressed in free agency or via trade.

We all know what the ideal guys would be like. Barring that, just get us some playmakers to install around Zach, PW and to a lesser and more uncertain extent Lauri and Coby.

I keep hearing people mention that we need to find a long-term Thad replacement. Giddey seems like he could be the big guy at the top of the key who facilitates the offense with vision and passing. His mid-range game is also pretty solid so he could really thrive in that role.

He could help provide that distribution, but Thad does it as a back to basket post/elbow post. Giddey will be doing it facing up as a ball handler. They are not similar generally speaking.

[GimmeDat]

Going to preface this by saying I'm not unnecessarily hyping him up.. I have him late lottery roughly (as I said, need to look into the rest of the class more). There are fair and legitimate question marks raised.

That said, let's explore the not plus shooter/defender/athlete thing. You could throw the exact same phrase at LaMelo based on his season in the NBL. Much worse 3pt% and his form was being blasted. His defense was also horrible, some of the worst D in the league. Also similar to Giddey, his 'instincts' stock wise were his only redeeming factor on that end. Athlete wise, I'd give Lamelo an edge, but as I said, Giddey has exceptional size and great change of pace/deceptiveness. And no, that's not me saying he's on Doncic's level in that respect, it's just pointing out an example of how conventional 'athleticism' can be overrated when it comes to getting to your spot.

He's been a full-time PG in the NBL to great success. As far as I see it, you bring him in to run your offense. He actually doesn't have a lot of off-ball utility at this stage. He's not going to be a big time scorer, he's not going to break a lot of guys down 1 on 1, but he'll pick his spots as a scorer and be elite in PnR. Maybe there's a chance he develops into a secondary creator wing, and Maybe that's what he'll have to be if the PG thing doesn't pan out, but if that's what you're after he has considerable developments to make physically and as a shooter.

[JohnnyTapwater]

Yeah - I'm pretty enamored with Giddy. Would be the perfect late Lottery selection for us if we don't catch that D. Rose luck.

Stealing THT would be pretty smart too.

[Grodoboldo]

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I'll definitely check out more tape on him, but this dude is going top-10.

[gf2020hotmail]

Random lottery question regarding the play-in game, does making the play-in game lock you into a 11 to 14 pick even if you lose your first game as a ninth or tenth seed?

Say the Bulls finish as the the tenth seed in the East, but with a worse record then the team who finishes 11th in the West, like say the Pelicans have a good end of the season and finish two games ahead of us but behind the Warriors and Grizzlies. Then the Bulls proceed to lose their first play-in game. Would the Bulls have the 11th best lottery odds by making the fake playoffs or could they have better odds than a team that didn't make the play-in game in the other conference?