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GO CRAZY PAT! - Patrick Williams thread p2

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Re: GO CRAZY PAT! - Patrick Williams thread p2 

Post#481 » by Mk0 » Tue Mar 16, 2021 9:12 pm

samwana wrote:
Stratmaster wrote:PWill was done a disservice being on the court with 2 other players who haven't learned to play yet. It is tough for a rook to succeed starting in the first place, generational talents excepted of course.

Donovan and AK keep taking about development. Pwill will actually have a chance to develop now playing more minutes with all vets. I think he will thrive.

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Letting all the youngins together on the floor was a bad idea with the right purpose, or the other way around? Anyway all three of them will have a better chance to succeed with vets around them who can teach them how to play. Both Pat and Wendell played better against Toronto. Maybe Wendell is a bench player too, nothing wrong with that.

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In regards of development,

Lauri's defense was damn good in that Toronto game. Having him and WCJ out there at the same time hurts them both. Their awareness isn't great and when they are together its really rough. Having Thad out there to call out defensive rotations is huge.

Not a straight comparison but look at Wiseman with and without Draymond. The guy is clueless, he is essentially a highschooler having only played a couple of college games.

Unless you are a bigman with 3-4yrs of college experience under your belt you are going to look like a fool on the defensive end.

I said it in the GT or post game, Coby at PG was about getting him development time to make him a well rounded 6th man. I think AKME knew that when they came in but thought, "let's run him out there and see if he can be our PG. No harm."

Well we had 35(?) games of it, learned that he isn't really picking up any new skills or developing better vision, and oops, we just found out that it may have been hurting Patrick Williams development as he plays 5th banana, essentially waiting for a catch and shoot corner 3 most of the time.

WCJ has poor to mediocre vision passing out the post and is easily frustrated offensively. Coby White is a walking bucket, but you don't expect Jordan Clarkson or LouWill to run your team. You bring in Sato and Thad, who are solid defenders and excellent ball movers, guys who can score but aren't looking for their shot. In the end you get more touches and easier looks.

Zach didn't even need to score in the last game. Toronto was putting a man on him at half court allowing Sato/Thad/Lauri to pick apart the defense in 4v3/4v4 action for half the night. Dude would see a double shade his way and just get the ball moving. In the past that would be WCJ holding it for 2s to find a lane, instead it was Thad/Lauri finding a wide open or cutting Sato/Patrick Williams.

We saw how good Zach has looked with the vet lineup. I think shuffling the minutes around will do wonders for all the young guys.
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Re: GO CRAZY PAT! - Patrick Williams thread p2 

Post#482 » by dawhizz » Thu Mar 18, 2021 3:15 pm

Thought I had watching the Bucks game last night: “Is Patrick Williams just taller Pat Connaghton?”

I should note I also had the thought “Is Donte DiVincenzo just Denzel Valentine with better PR?”
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Re: GO CRAZY PAT! - Patrick Williams thread p2 

Post#483 » by Magic beans » Thu Mar 18, 2021 4:36 pm

dawhizz wrote:Thought I had watching the Bucks game last night: “Is Patrick Williams just taller Pat Connaghton?”

I should note I also had the thought “Is Donte DiVincenzo just Denzel Valentine with better PR?”


Haha. Interesting. The problem I have with pwill is he has not been able to show case enough consistency. Which at this stage of the season I’d be hoping for. Really hoped his performance in the TOR game would be a spring board for games to come.

Important to temper expectations and show patience, for how long? Or do we get another WCJ?
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Re: GO CRAZY PAT! - Patrick Williams thread p2 

Post#484 » by madvillian » Thu Mar 18, 2021 4:59 pm

Last night he had a chance to dunk it and instead tried to lay it in and I believe it was a 4 point swing that cut the lead from like 12 to 8. Was a learning moment for him. He played OK last night but OK wasn't going to cut it with other guys also struggling. He really needs to work on his release. He's shooting well from deep but it's almost all on wide open catch and shoot opportunities and if the pass doesn't hit him right in the shooting pocket he struggles.

Defensively he just gives away possessions too often, which is expected from a rookie to be honest, especially a 19 year old. You can tell in college he got away with the classic "I'm more athletic than you" move where he'd let the attacker get by him only to body and block him at the rim. Doesn't work so well in the NBA, even for athletic guys. There are countless examples of him not getting in a good stance and just half heartedly trying to stay in front of his man. Cleaning that up via film and extra conditioning this summer shouldn't be that hard and is an obvious path to improvement along with working on his catch and shoot releases.
dumbell78 wrote:Random comment....Mikal Bridges stroke is dripping right now in summer league. Carry on.


I'll go ahead and make a sig bet that Mikal is better by RPM this year than Zach.
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Re: GO CRAZY PAT! - Patrick Williams thread p2 

Post#485 » by dawhizz » Sat Mar 20, 2021 3:57 am

Patrick Williams points last six games: 4, 3, 23, 2, 10, 6. When Temple comes back I think he needs to go to the bench, if not sooner.
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Re: GO CRAZY PAT! - Patrick Williams thread p2 

Post#486 » by ZOMG » Sat Mar 20, 2021 8:08 am

dawhizz wrote:Patrick Williams points last six games: 4, 3, 23, 2, 10, 6. When Temple comes back I think he needs to go to the bench, if not sooner.


He's been very, very bad. Nowhere near the rookie Top 10 this season. It's absolutely incredible that we wasted a #4 pick on this guy and everyone seems to think it's all good. He's a "future star".

Self-deception at its finest. PWill is wasting space in the starting lineup and making us play 4 on 5.
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Re: GO CRAZY PAT! - Patrick Williams thread p2 

Post#487 » by Cabbage bulls » Sat Mar 20, 2021 8:20 am

ZOMG wrote:
dawhizz wrote:Patrick Williams points last six games: 4, 3, 23, 2, 10, 6. When Temple comes back I think he needs to go to the bench, if not sooner.


He's been very, very bad. Nowhere near the rookie Top 10 this season. It's absolutely incredible that we wasted a #4 pick on this guy and everyone seems to think it's all good. He's a "future star".

Self-deception at its finest. PWill is wasting space in the starting lineup and making us play 4 on 5.


Stop it. He is a 19 year old rookie that didn't start in college. Everybody knew how raw he was. He has shown flashes of his potential. He had a great game as recently as Sunday. The kid needs to time grow. Writing him off already is ridiculous.

You know who sucked even more as a 19 year old and turned out pretty good? Zach LaVine.
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Re: GO CRAZY PAT! - Patrick Williams thread p2 

Post#488 » by ZOMG » Sat Mar 20, 2021 9:18 am

Cabbage bulls wrote:
ZOMG wrote:
dawhizz wrote:Patrick Williams points last six games: 4, 3, 23, 2, 10, 6. When Temple comes back I think he needs to go to the bench, if not sooner.


He's been very, very bad. Nowhere near the rookie Top 10 this season. It's absolutely incredible that we wasted a #4 pick on this guy and everyone seems to think it's all good. He's a "future star".

Self-deception at its finest. PWill is wasting space in the starting lineup and making us play 4 on 5.


Stop it. He is a 19 year old rookie that didn't start in college. Everybody knew how raw he was. He has shown flashes of his potential. He had a great game as recently as Sunday. The kid needs to time grow. Writing him off already is ridiculous.

You know who sucked even more as a 19 year old and turned out pretty good? Zach LaVine.


Zach LaVine was the 13th pick! About the same spot where PWill should have gone - and would have, if not for the Bulls.

Stop pretending like we're playing four dimensional chess here. You don't use a top 5 pick on this type of player. LaMelo Ball is 19 as well, was picked one spot ahead of Patrick and he's already better than anyone of our guards not named Zach.

This pick was another blunder by the Bulls and it will haunt them.
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Re: GO CRAZY PAT! - Patrick Williams thread p2 

Post#489 » by Andi Obst » Sat Mar 20, 2021 9:32 am

Completely fair to say that Williams is hurting the team right now, but extremely weird to write him off already. He was always going to be a multi-year project. I expected to see flashes this season and honestly didn't even expect him to play much. He's playing too much, sure, but that's on the coach. The flashes are there. People need to be patient.

I loved the pick at the time and I'd pick Williams again 10 times out of 10. The only guy who I could see having an argument for being the better choice at 4 in hindsight is Hali (who would definitely help more right now).
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Re: GO CRAZY PAT! - Patrick Williams thread p2 

Post#490 » by ZOMG » Sat Mar 20, 2021 9:53 am

Little Nathan wrote:Completely fair to say that Williams is hurting the team right now, but extremely weird to write him off already. He was always going to be a multi-year project. I expected to see flashes this season and honestly didn't even expect him to play much. He's playing too much, sure, but that's on the coach. The flashes are there. People need to be patient.

I loved the pick at the time and I'd pick Williams again 10 times out of 10.


I'm not writing him off. But he should not have been the #4 pick. With our timeline, we don't have the luxury of picking guys that high who might be somewhat good in 4-5 years. That's something a perennial contender can do.

The only guy who I could see having an argument for being the better choice at 4 in hindsight is Hali (who would definitely help more right now).


Haliburton, Kira Lewis jr, Saddiq Bey, Theo Maledon.... it wasn't a great draft but there were definitely better options.
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Re: GO CRAZY PAT! - Patrick Williams thread p2 

Post#491 » by Kukoc-Lauri » Sat Mar 20, 2021 9:53 am

ZOMG wrote:
dawhizz wrote:Patrick Williams points last six games: 4, 3, 23, 2, 10, 6. When Temple comes back I think he needs to go to the bench, if not sooner.


He's been very, very bad. Nowhere near the rookie Top 10 this season. It's absolutely incredible that we wasted a #4 pick on this guy and everyone seems to think it's all good. He's a "future star".

Self-deception at its finest. PWill is wasting space in the starting lineup and making us play 4 on 5.
He was still right pick. PWill and Pokusevski are two youngest players in the league. Kobe at 19, had one outatanding game with 30 then pair of games with rookie blunders. Not comparing the two, but at 19 yo that is excatly what is going to happend to most if not all guys at that age.
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Re: GO CRAZY PAT! - Patrick Williams thread p2 

Post#492 » by ZOMG » Sat Mar 20, 2021 9:56 am

Kukoc-Lauri wrote:
ZOMG wrote:
dawhizz wrote:Patrick Williams points last six games: 4, 3, 23, 2, 10, 6. When Temple comes back I think he needs to go to the bench, if not sooner.


He's been very, very bad. Nowhere near the rookie Top 10 this season. It's absolutely incredible that we wasted a #4 pick on this guy and everyone seems to think it's all good. He's a "future star".

Self-deception at its finest. PWill is wasting space in the starting lineup and making us play 4 on 5.
He was still right pick. PWill and Pokusevski are two youngest players in the league. Kobe at 19, had one outatanding game with 30 then pair of games with rookie blunders. Not comparing the two, but at 19 yo that is excatly what is going to happend to most if not all guys at that age.


Edwards, Wiseman and Ball are all 19 as well.
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Re: GO CRAZY PAT! - Patrick Williams thread p2 

Post#493 » by Kukoc-Lauri » Sat Mar 20, 2021 9:59 am

ZOMG wrote:
Kukoc-Lauri wrote:
ZOMG wrote:
He's been very, very bad. Nowhere near the rookie Top 10 this season. It's absolutely incredible that we wasted a #4 pick on this guy and everyone seems to think it's all good. He's a "future star".

Self-deception at its finest. PWill is wasting space in the starting lineup and making us play 4 on 5.
He was still right pick. PWill and Pokusevski are two youngest players in the league. Kobe at 19, had one outatanding game with 30 then pair of games with rookie blunders. Not comparing the two, but at 19 yo that is excatly what is going to happend to most if not all guys at that age.


Edwards, Wiseman and Ball are all 19 as well.
He was 4 pick. Wiseman did lot of stupid things as well and was benched many times. Edwards also had many bad rookie games until recent breakout games. Ball had 6 to vs Bulls in a half and got benched. To reach his potential he needs to play. Mistakes and blunders, miss reads are inventable.
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Re: GO CRAZY PAT! - Patrick Williams thread p2 

Post#494 » by Andi Obst » Sat Mar 20, 2021 10:17 am

ZOMG wrote:With our timeline, we don't have the luxury of picking guys that high who might be somewhat good in 4-5 years. That's something a perennial contender can do.


What is our timeline exactly? The number of long-term pieces on this team right now is too low to tell IMO. We could easily be headed towards another few years of sucking.

ZOMG wrote:Haliburton, Kira Lewis jr, Saddiq Bey, Theo Maledon.... it wasn't a great draft but there were definitely better options.


I don't consider any of those options to be better, although I see the argument for Hali.
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Re: GO CRAZY PAT! - Patrick Williams thread p2 

Post#495 » by Ice Man » Sat Mar 20, 2021 12:25 pm

Kukoc-Lauri wrote: Kobe at 19, had one outatanding game with 30 then pair of games with rookie blunders. Not comparing the two, but at 19 yo that is excatly what is going to happend to most if not all guys at that age.


Ah heck, go ahead and compare them. Kobe was a bench player at age 19, Pat's a starter.
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Re: GO CRAZY PAT! - Patrick Williams thread p2 

Post#496 » by DuckIII » Sat Mar 20, 2021 12:45 pm

Oh this thread is gonna be sweet. Years from now.

Future. Star.
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Re: GO CRAZY PAT! - Patrick Williams thread p2 

Post#497 » by ZOMG » Sat Mar 20, 2021 12:47 pm

DuckIII wrote:Oh this thread is gonna be sweet. Years from now.

Future. Star.


Which team do you think he'll be playing for?
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Re: GO CRAZY PAT! - Patrick Williams thread p2 

Post#498 » by DuckIII » Sat Mar 20, 2021 12:56 pm

ZOMG wrote:
DuckIII wrote:Oh this thread is gonna be sweet. Years from now.

Future. Star.


Which team do you think he'll be playing for?


The Bulls. You have to understand, I have an incredibly easy argument here for the time being. I see star traits. I have a raw prospect. I see a multi-year timeline to achievement. I don’t have to defend bad games or even stretches of bad games because I assume and expect them. It’s his fault. He’s to blame when he has them. It’s how it is.

I might end up being utterly wrong about the Patrick Lee Williams’ end game. Eggs may coat my face. But in the meantime I can more or less ignore reactionary and negative over statements so early in his career.
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Re: GO CRAZY PAT! - Patrick Williams thread p2 

Post#499 » by coldfish » Sat Mar 20, 2021 1:13 pm

DuckIII wrote:Oh this thread is gonna be sweet. Years from now.

Future. Star.


Future star? You are nuts.

Have you looked at his stats? He has a 40% 3p percentage. The guy is a STAR RIGHT NOW!!! The only reason he isn't dropping 50 a night is because the rest of the team doesn't play right. The offense should be 3 guys setting a pick for Pat like a wall and one guy passing him the ball. That's it. 100 possessions per game. If it wasn't for all of these other selfish players, Pat would be leading the MVP race.
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Re: GO CRAZY PAT! - Patrick Williams thread p2 

Post#500 » by DuckIII » Sat Mar 20, 2021 1:18 pm

coldfish wrote:
DuckIII wrote:Oh this thread is gonna be sweet. Years from now.

Future. Star.


Future star? You are nuts.

Have you looked at his stats? He has a 40% 3p percentage. The guy is a STAR RIGHT NOW!!! The only reason he isn't dropping 50 a night is because the rest of the team doesn't play right. The offense should be 3 guys setting a pick for Pat like a wall and one guy passing him the ball. That's it. 100 possessions per game. If it wasn't for all of these other selfish players, Pat would be leading the MVP race.


I totally agree with this approach of evaluating players. Well not players, but Patrick Lee Williams? Yes!

Please ignore my prior post foolishly claiming he’s responsible for his own failures.
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