Does this year bring into question Curry's floor raising abilities?

[parsnips33]

No but I think this year brings into question Bob Myers' GM skills.

*Kent Lacob

[Warriors Analyst]

Steph's point differential per 100 possessions is pretty much in line with what it's been since Kerr took over:

2014-15: +16.3
2015-16: +21.3
2016-17: +17.6
2017-18: +13.0
2018-19: +17.5
2019-20 (5 games): -3.6
2020-2021: +14.3

So all things considered, yes, he's performed slightly worse than in years past, but given his surrounding cast, that's hardly a surprise.

But Steph's impact is pretty stable. When he's on the court, the Warriors are a much better team. It's just... they're still not that good with him on the court, which means they're terrible without him.

I've listed below the Warriors' point differential in the Kerr era as well as Curry's to make my point. It's not a perfect methodology here since I don't have the means to account for games Steph missed, but it is still pretty striking:

2014-15: +12.1 (Steph +16.3)
2015-16: +11.6 (Steph +21.3)
2016-17: +12.8 (Steph +17.6)
2017-18: +7.2 (Steph +13.0)
2018-19: +7.9 (Steph +17.5)
2019-2020: -9.6 (5 games of Steph -3.6)
2020-21: -1.7 (Steph +14.3)

So if we subtract Steph's impact you're left with... the following point differential, more or less, without Steph in those years:

2014-15: -4.2
2015-16: -9.7
2016-17: -4.8
2017-18: -5.8
2018-19: -9.6
2019-20: -6.0
2020-21: -16.0

[LA Bird]

Steph's point differential per 100 possessions is pretty much in line with what it's been since Kerr took over:

2014-15: +16.3
2015-16: +21.3
2016-17: +17.6
2017-18: +13.0
2018-19: +17.5
2019-20 (5 games): -3.6
2020-2021: +14.3

So all things considered, yes, he's performed slightly worse than in years past, but given his surrounding cast, that's hardly a surprise.

But Steph's impact is pretty stable. When he's on the court, the Warriors are a much better team. It's just... they're still not that good with him on the court, which means they're terrible without him.

I've listed below the Warriors' point differential in the Kerr era as well as Curry's to make my point. It's not a perfect methodology here since I don't have the means to account for games Steph missed, but it is still pretty striking:

2014-15: +12.1 (Steph +16.3)
2015-16: +11.6 (Steph +21.3)
2016-17: +12.8 (Steph +17.6)
2017-18: +7.2 (Steph +13.0)
2018-19: +7.9 (Steph +17.5)
2019-2020: -9.6 (5 games of Steph -3.6)
2020-21: -1.7 (Steph +14.3)

So if we subtract Steph's impact you're left with... the following point differential, more or less, without Steph in those years:

2014-15: -4.2
2015-16: -9.7
2016-17: -4.8
2017-18: -5.8
2018-19: -9.6
2019-20: -6.0
2020-21: -16.0

Source for your 2021 on/off numbers? According to both NBA and basketball reference, Curry's on/off stats have dropped considerably this year compared to past seasons.

NBA
2015: +16.3 on, -3.5 off, +19.8 net
2016: +17.7 on, -5.4 off, +23.1 net
2017: +17.4 on, -2.0 off, +19.4 net
2018: +13.0 on, +0.3 off, +12.7 net
2019: +13.7 on, -4.3 off, +18.0 net
2021: +2.0 on, -5.9 off, +7.9 net
Source: https://www.nba.com/stats/team/1610612744/onoffcourt-advanced/

BBR
2015: +16.7 on, -1.4 off, +18.1 net
2016: +18.0 on, -4.6 off, +22.6 net
2017: +17.1 on, -0.1 off, +17.2 net
2018: +13.2 on, +1.0 off, +12.2 net
2019: +13.2 on, -3.0 off, +16.2 net
2021: +1.6 on, -4.9 off, +6.5 net
Source: https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/c/curryst01/on-off/2021

[Warriors Analyst]

Steph's point differential per 100 possessions is pretty much in line with what it's been since Kerr took over:

2014-15: +16.3
2015-16: +21.3
2016-17: +17.6
2017-18: +13.0
2018-19: +17.5
2019-20 (5 games): -3.6
2020-2021: +14.3

So all things considered, yes, he's performed slightly worse than in years past, but given his surrounding cast, that's hardly a surprise.

But Steph's impact is pretty stable. When he's on the court, the Warriors are a much better team. It's just... they're still not that good with him on the court, which means they're terrible without him.

I've listed below the Warriors' point differential in the Kerr era as well as Curry's to make my point. It's not a perfect methodology here since I don't have the means to account for games Steph missed, but it is still pretty striking:

2014-15: +12.1 (Steph +16.3)
2015-16: +11.6 (Steph +21.3)
2016-17: +12.8 (Steph +17.6)
2017-18: +7.2 (Steph +13.0)
2018-19: +7.9 (Steph +17.5)
2019-2020: -9.6 (5 games of Steph -3.6)
2020-21: -1.7 (Steph +14.3)

So if we subtract Steph's impact you're left with... the following point differential, more or less, without Steph in those years:

2014-15: -4.2
2015-16: -9.7
2016-17: -4.8
2017-18: -5.8
2018-19: -9.6
2019-20: -6.0
2020-21: -16.0

Source for your 2021 on/off numbers? According to both NBA and basketball reference, Curry's on/off stats have dropped considerably this year compared to past seasons.

NBA
2015: +16.3 on, -3.5 off, +19.8 net
2016: +17.7 on, -5.4 off, +23.1 net
2017: +17.4 on, -2.0 off, +19.4 net
2018: +13.0 on, +0.3 off, +12.7 net
2019: +13.7 on, -4.3 off, +18.0 net
2021: +2.0 on, -5.9 off, +7.9 net
Source: https://www.nba.com/stats/team/1610612744/onoffcourt-advanced/

BBR
2015: +16.7 on, -1.4 off, +18.1 net
2016: +18.0 on, -4.6 off, +22.6 net
2017: +17.1 on, -0.1 off, +17.2 net
2018: +13.2 on, +1.0 off, +12.2 net
2019: +13.2 on, -3.0 off, +16.2 net
2021: +1.6 on, -4.9 off, +6.5 net
Source: https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/c/curryst01/on-off/2021

I was having trouble navigating NBA's page. I used Cleaning the Glass.

https://cleaningtheglass.com/stats/player/787/onoff#tab-team_efficiency

I was using efficiency differential: points per 100 possessions minus points allowed per 100 posessions.

[LA Bird]

I was having trouble navigating NBA's page. I used Cleaning the Glass.

https://cleaningtheglass.com/stats/player/787/onoff#tab-team_efficiency

I was using efficiency differential: points per 100 possessions minus points allowed per 100 posessions.

Interesting, usually the CTG stats don't differ too much from the other sources. Not sure what is going on here but ok.

[LukaTheGOAT]

While I do wonder if Curry could help GSW more if he was on-ball a bit more, and tried to play like a Dame, Lillard, Trae, role, I still think he has massive impact and has an argument for the best offensive player in the game, especially with how he flies all around the court to separate from his defender.

He has a 8.5 Offensive RAPTOR, which is tied for #1 in the NBA. He's scoring about 30 games on a rTS% of 7.5% and those numbers looked better before his little skid prior to the All-Star Break. He's top 10 in PlayVal, so his playmaking has been solid and he is creating ample shots.

I think Curry might be under a Harden/maybe Lebron in floor-raising on offense, but still seems to be the standard of ceiiling-raising. And I think that is just about where people have always just about had him I suppose?

[oaktownwarriors87]

I was having trouble navigating NBA's page. I used Cleaning the Glass.

https://cleaningtheglass.com/stats/player/787/onoff#tab-team_efficiency

I was using efficiency differential: points per 100 possessions minus points allowed per 100 posessions.

Interesting, usually the CTG stats don't differ too much from the other sources. Not sure what is going on here but ok.

He's also second in RPM, first on ORPM and 2nd in WINS

http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/sort/ORPM

[LukaTheGOAT]

With Stephen Curry on the floor, the Warriors have a +2.4 team offense, ranking 13th in the NBA.

With Stephen Curry off the floor, the Warriors have a -9.8 team offense, the 7th worst in league history.

[rate_]

Warriors are be 12th in ORTG w/ Curry (114.3) on the court, and easily 30th w/o him (102.1)

[KobesScarf]

Might wanna look at only minutes he's in the game, just anecdotally our bench units have been let's say offensively challenged

Is he not accountable for playing more minutes?

[Pelly24]

To me Steph is just doing fine, but not much better. People always want to put down Westbrook for his MVP year, but I think he quite possibly gets this warriors team to a better record in that year. IDK. I think Steph also just has certain problems while being on the ball. He just has physical limitations. The numbers show that he's a big deal and doing a solid job but idk. Harden would have this team in the playoffs, so I think this makes Harden and Curry more of a toss up than people have been willing to admit.

[Statlanta]

Steph is OK. His injury history(the strategy the team is taking this season because of it) and the luxury tax is the real anchor on the Warriors neck.

[Cavsfansince84]

Might wanna look at only minutes he's in the game, just anecdotally our bench units have been let's say offensively challenged

Is he not accountable for playing more minutes?

Not completely. That's more on Kerr and the Warriors are obviously working under a strategy to not try and chase wins at the future expense of Steph's health. They are content to only win about 25-30 games and reload for next season.

[70sFan]

If you want to use Warriors offense without Curry as a proof of something, it's better to compare it to other teams results without their offensive anchors as well. Otherwise, it's pointless and I don't say it to downgrade Steph.

[SpreeS]

If you want to use Warriors offense without Curry as a proof of something, it's better to compare it to other teams results without their offensive anchors as well. Otherwise, it's pointless and I don't say it to downgrade Steph.

Curry off 99.8 -9.7

Young off 104.2 -2.4
Tatum off 107.3 -2.2
Harden off 111.8 +3.1
Hayward off 106.9 -2.9
Lavine off 102.8 -0.4
Sexton off 99.8 -8.7
Grant off 104.3 -6.8
Sabonis off 114.9 +8.2
Butler off 105.1 -6.3
Giannis off 110.2 +0.5
Randle off 103.7 -3.0
Vucevic off 102.0 -1.6
Embiid off 105.9 -0.9
Lowry off 110.9 +3.5
Beal off 98.5 -7.5

Doncic off 105.0 -0.4
Jokic off 102.5 -2.4
Wall off 105.1 -5.5
Kawhi off 109.1 +0.9
Lebron off 102.3 -3.3
Morant off 105.1 +0.6
Town off 101.8 -11.2
Zion off 108.2 -2.1
Shai off 100.1 -7.3
Booker off 108.4 +5.1
Lillard off 108.0 -3.3
Fox off 109.3 -3.3
DeRozan off 104.2 +0.5
Mitchell off 112.1 +12.2

[U hova]

If you want to use Warriors offense without Curry as a proof of something, it's better to compare it to other teams results without their offensive anchors as well. Otherwise, it's pointless and I don't say it to downgrade Steph.

I am a little tired of hearing "X team is the Yth best offense in the league when Z is on court" but only comparing it to every team's average offense and not their peak line-ups as well.

[Warriors Analyst]

To me Steph is just doing fine, but not much better. People always want to put down Westbrook for his MVP year, but I think he quite possibly gets this warriors team to a better record in that year. IDK. I think Steph also just has certain problems while being on the ball. He just has physical limitations. The numbers show that he's a big deal and doing a solid job but idk. Harden would have this team in the playoffs, so I think this makes Harden and Curry more of a toss up than people have been willing to admit.

In what world have you watched this year's Warriors team and come to the conclusion that 2016-17 Russ makes the Warriors better than Steph this year? My god. The Warriors' single biggest issue is their inability to space the floor. Russ compounds that. Russ/Dray PNR's would have defenders planted below the three free throw line and Russ' 2P% efficiency would plummet trying to drive against packed paints. 28% of our made threes this year come from Steph. 15% come from Wiggins. The Warriors shoot 37% on threes this year, which is good for 13th in the league. Without Steph, that number drops to 35.6% and they'd be the 21st worst shooting team in the league. How does Russ make this team better? In what world? I also don't understand how you've come to the conclusion that Steph has trouble being on ball. There's plenty of statistical evidence that shows Steph is quite good on ball. It's Kerr's decision to put him off ball.

[Pelly24]

To me Steph is just doing fine, but not much better. People always want to put down Westbrook for his MVP year, but I think he quite possibly gets this warriors team to a better record in that year. IDK. I think Steph also just has certain problems while being on the ball. He just has physical limitations. The numbers show that he's a big deal and doing a solid job but idk. Harden would have this team in the playoffs, so I think this makes Harden and Curry more of a toss up than people have been willing to admit.

In what world have you watched this year's Warriors team and come to the conclusion that 2016-17 Russ makes the Warriors better than Steph this year? My god. The Warriors' single biggest issue is their inability to space the floor. Russ compounds that. Russ/Dray PNR's would have defenders planted below the three free throw line and Russ' 2P% efficiency would plummet trying to drive against packed paints. 28% of our made threes this year come from Steph. 15% come from Wiggins. The Warriors shoot 37% on threes this year, which is good for 13th in the league. Without Steph, that number drops to 35.6% and they'd be the 21st worst shooting team in the league. How does Russ make this team better? In what world? I also don't understand how you've come to the conclusion that Steph has trouble being on ball. There's plenty of statistical evidence that shows Steph is quite good on ball. It's Kerr's decision to put him off ball.

Russ basically had no shooting and won anyway lol. He could just bludgeon his way to the rim and hit midrange jumpers and post up and pass the ball into tight spaces that only his big men could get it. Russ literally never had spacing while he was in OKC that year3, Oladipo and his other wing were just as unreliable as Wiggins and Oubre, probably moreso that year. Russ was the best clutch player in the league that year and they won a bunch of games at the last second that they shouldn't have because of Russ' late game surges (see Nuggets, Magic that year). If Russ had decent spacing OKC would've finished with a higher seed that year and would've won like 50+ games.

As for Curry on ball, but he's not Kobe, DWade, MJ, Harden, etc. He can't just force his way to buckets the same way, so if his jumper is off it can be pretty quiet. All the guys that rely on their jumper, unless they're super athletic or big, have this issue. IDK how much I buy into that Kerr stuff. He's said that Steph is like 6'2" 180 pounds so he doesn't want to put Steph's body through that punishment.

[Peregrine01]

The only thing that 17 Westbrook has over 21 Curry is minutes played. I think that if Curry just played 2 more minutes a game in the 4th quarter, they would've converted at least 5 losses into 5 wins but alas Kerr doesn't let him. GSW's second unit bleeds leads like something I have never seen before.

[Im Your Father]

I don't think it really calls into question his floor raising abilities, but I DO think it should call into question how certain people on Real GM hold mediocre offensive or defensive team results against stars in less than ideal scenarios.

For example, I feel like in particular with respect to Wade or Garnett with those abysmal Heat/Wolves casts, I've seen team ORTG/DRTG held against them quite often.