Our road back to the top

London2Boston · Post #41 » by **London2Boston** » Tue Mar 30, 2021 2:03 am

Get real lucky with a draft pick and land a stud that fits perfect with Tatum and Brow . Real lucky going off Ainge’s usual hit rate outside the lottery.

moonie_mcgee · Post #42 » by **moonie_mcgee** » Tue Mar 30, 2021 2:38 am

If Ainge is building around Tatum it would be malpractice to miss on Beal as he's the league's leading scorer, a pending FA, playing on a losing team, and is arguably Tatum's best friend.

Theocy · Post #43 » by **Theocy** » Tue Mar 30, 2021 10:24 am

moonie_mcgee wrote:If Ainge is building around Tatum it would be malpractice to miss on Beal as he's the league's leading scorer, a pending FA, playing on a losing team, and is arguably Tatum's best friend.

I mean yes, that makes sense but there are 2 major issues there.

a) what do you do with Kemba - Kemba and Beal on paper are a lethal back court but in practice i doubt both fit in a roster. you probaby need a facilitator and a pass first PG and kemba isnt that.
b) how do you sign him - we clearly lack the monies. You most likely need a trade with Wizards and who do you send back ?

If the end game is Beal, Brown and Tatum with Timelord, Smart PP as supporting cast, i could live with that. Realistically speaking we're not a superteam though with that clearly not a title contender - just looks at the Harden, Kyrie, Durant trio . You'd still need Tatum to explode, and Williams to become a very very good post star.

BK_2020 · Post #44 » by **BK_2020** » Tue Mar 30, 2021 12:50 pm

"Pass-first" PG is just a shorthand for PG that can't score.

aussie_pride · Post #45 » by **aussie_pride** » Tue Mar 30, 2021 1:03 pm

In my view the only thing we really lack is a post scorer. At the moment we are too one dimensional; what do we do when the threes are not falling? Other than that we have the tools for success; its just a matter playing the right brand of basketball. I'm not a fan of making sideways trades or signing players of a similar style to what we have. For instance, signing Bradley Beal would be an unmitigated disaster because the guy is a pure scorer and that is something which we do not need any more of. I am also a massive fan of player development. Hence, the best thing that we can do is adopt the mentality of a Denver or a Utah and enhance the skillset of our current group of players. The additional benefit of this is that you build team cohesion given that your core group stays together for longer.

Fencer reregistered · Post #46 » by **Fencer reregistered** » Tue Mar 30, 2021 1:16 pm

BK_2020 wrote:"Pass-first" PG is just a shorthand for PG that can't score.

John Stockton and Steve Nash were pass-first PGs who could score.

That said, D'Antoni now thinks he should have had Nash do more scoring.

aussie_pride · Post #47 » by **aussie_pride** » Tue Mar 30, 2021 1:19 pm

Gomes3PC wrote:My biggest issue with the pairing of Tatum and Brown long-term is that there is no offensive synergy between the two of them, at least offensively. You can probably count on one hand the number of times that they have assisted on each other's passes, and rarely do we even run actions combining them. It's very much "your turn/my turn" - now, some of that I just blame on Brad, he needs to be more creative there, but it also speaks to the fact that neither are true "primary initiator" types - both better suited as finishers/scorers than making a teammate better.

Ideally, we find our own primary initiator and let Tatum be the #3 and Brown be an elite #3. The "#1" there doesn't even need to be a true top 10 guy - if we could find a young Kyle Lowry type, even that would work. A guy like DeAaron Fox or the like (CAVEAT, I KNOW THAT FOX IS NOT AVAILABLE). I just don't see how we do that without using one of Tatum or Brown in a package, unless one of our youngsters really blows up.

Your correct with what you are saying about Tatum and Brown. I think the reason for their lack or synergy is because they are both the same type of player. Furthermore, their weaknesses are both the same in that they resort to highly contested iso shots when we really need a basket instead of moving the ball. With that being said, I do think both their ceilings are exceptionally high and that they can be made to play a lot better.

Ideally Kemba is supposed to be our primary initiator and does this job very well. Look at what he did in the second game against Milwaukee the other night! The problem is that his contributions are maligned by the selfishness of Tatum and Brown. For me DeAaron Fox is the exact same style of player as Kemba Walker and if you put him on our team at the moment he would find himself in the exact same position as Kemba.

BK_2020 · Post #48 » by **BK_2020** » Tue Mar 30, 2021 1:51 pm

Fencer reregistered wrote:
BK_2020 wrote:"Pass-first" PG is just a shorthand for PG that can't score.

John Stockton and Steve Nash were pass-first PGs who could score.

That said, D'Antoni now thinks he should have had Nash do more scoring.

I was thinking more like Rondo.

Tyakack · Post #49 » by **Tyakack** » Tue Mar 30, 2021 1:52 pm

If we win a title in the next 5 years I'd say...... Stevens was fired or left on his own, we somehow ship kemba off and get beal to join tatum and brown, the nets are done or get a key injury during one of those years, tatum and brown make another significant leap.

Or, we trade brown and pieces for another legit MVP type star to pair with tatum as tatum continues to grow into a true superstar himself........oh, and stevens is still gone.

celtics543 · Post #50 » by **celtics543** » Tue Mar 30, 2021 2:12 pm

Need to trade for a legit MVP contender. No one wins a title without one. Tatum is great but he's not there yet and I have a hard time seeing how he gets there in the next few years. He doesn't get to the free throw line nearly enough to be an MVP candidate.

I was against it at the time but maybe they should've tried making a move for Harden to see what that would look like. I think realistically if you could somehow get Beal and then replace Kemba with a guy like Lonzo Ball that would be a pretty solid lineup. You'd probably have to trade Brown for Beal so you're looking at

Lonzo, Beal, Tatum, Rob Williams as starters with one more swing guy (hopefully Langford or Nesmith can fill that role) and then Marcus Smart, PP, and other signings or draft picks off the bench.

jfs1000d · Post #51 » by **jfs1000d** » Tue Mar 30, 2021 2:35 pm

Team needs a soft reset. Not a hard one.

Nothing drastic this offseason unless it gets the team better.

People overreact to Kemba's contract.

We have to stop getting rid of talent, start acquiring more talent.

In the previous two offseasons we have jettisoned talent not brought more in. I am not for getting rid of Kemba if it doesn't mean receiving talent in return.

A trade? If it is a somewhat equal talent trade and the parts fit better? Sure. But I am not dumping him for a non player just to get rid of the contract. Horrible way to go.

BK_2020 · Post #52 » by **BK_2020** » Tue Mar 30, 2021 2:43 pm

Kemba's contract is bad now but it's just 20% of the cap in the '22 off-season. Even without dumping Kemba's contract there's room for a max contract and Timelord's $10 mil cap hold.

Fierce1 · Post #53 » by **Fierce1** » Tue Mar 30, 2021 2:47 pm

BK_2020 wrote:Kemba's contract is bad now but it's just 20% of the cap in the '22 off-season. Even without dumping Kemba's contract there's room for a max contract and Timelord's $10 mil cap hold.

What are you talking about?

Tatum, Brown, and Kemba will total 95m in 2022-23.

How can there be room for a max contract in the off-season of 2022?

BK_2020 · Post #54 » by **BK_2020** » Tue Mar 30, 2021 2:52 pm

Fierce1 wrote:
BK_2020 wrote:Kemba's contract is bad now but it's just 20% of the cap in the '22 off-season. Even without dumping Kemba's contract there's room for a max contract and Timelord's $10 mil cap hold.

What are you talking about?

Tatum, Brown, and Kemba will total 95m in 2022-23.

How can there be room for a max contract in the off-season of 2022?

Trade Jaylen

Fierce1 · Post #55 » by **Fierce1** » Tue Mar 30, 2021 2:55 pm

BK_2020 wrote:Trade Jaylen

It's more complicated than that.

Fournier becomes a free-agent after this season ends.

Smart becomes a free-agent in the off-season of 2022.

BK_2020 · Post #56 » by **BK_2020** » Tue Mar 30, 2021 2:57 pm

Fierce1 wrote:
BK_2020 wrote:Trade Jaylen

It's more complicated than that.

Fournier becomes a free-agent after this season ends.

Smart becomes a free-agent in the off-season of 2022.

Fournier can honestly just go. Smart we will miss but he can be flipped for draft assets. Having a max slot in '22 plus Kemba's salary and a lot of young assets is more important than Jaylen, Fournier or Smart.

Fierce1 · Post #57 » by **Fierce1** » Tue Mar 30, 2021 3:00 pm

BK_2020 wrote:
Fierce1 wrote:
BK_2020 wrote:Trade Jaylen

It's more complicated than that.

Fournier becomes a free-agent after this season ends.

Smart becomes a free-agent in the off-season of 2022.

Fournier can honestly just go. Smart we will miss but he can be flipped for draft assets. Having a max slot in '22 plus Kemba's salary and a lot of young assets is more important than Jaylen, Fournier or Smart.

I agree about flipping Smart for draft assets.

But some of the Celtic fans believe Smart will be a Celtic for many years to come.

And Smart will be asking for big money in the summer of 2022.

chrisab123 · Post #58 » by **chrisab123** » Tue Mar 30, 2021 3:07 pm

Won't happen with Ainge or Brad here. There is zero urgency to make the program better. Brad is going to have to rely on player development and recruiting in the offseason. Maybe a bought out Horford might help next year. Probably the only move they'll make. Bradley Beal has a better shot of going elsewhere than Boston due to Ainge not wanting to trade real assets so lets see how it works out 12 months from now. If nothing else please actually sign a real NBA assistant coach.

playa-hater · Post #59 » by **playa-hater** » Tue Mar 30, 2021 4:13 pm

31to6 wrote:
Fencer reregistered wrote:Internal development.

There will of course be trades/additions/departures, but I wonder how far we could get with this? My rosiest take = 'championship is posssssssibllee!' My worst take is that we can lose in the ECF every year for all eternity. To quote Danny "I like [these] guys":

Tatum = star (best case = Kobe making a shot, worst case = Kobe missing a shot)
Jaylen = star (best case = Pippen, worst case = BCGM)
Robert = above-average impact starter (best case = Rodman, worst-case = Birdman)
Smart = enigma with a hopefully improved fg% (best case = Draymond? Eric Snow? worst-case = Metta Worldpeace)
Kemba = above-average starter (best case = Tony Parker?, worst case = DNP-knee)
Fournier = Grade A bench sniper/spot starter (best case = Lou Williams/Vinny Johnson, worst case = testicular gangrene)
Pritchard = solid bench sparkplug (best case = van Vleet, worst case = Chris Herren)
Nesmith = solid bench shooter/energy guy? (best case = shorter Walter McCarty or Saddiq Bey, worst case = DNP-CD)
Langford = messiah (best case = Larry Bird, worst case = not real)
Wagner = that goofy white guy who danced on LAL (best and worst cases combined)

Thanks to our picks and sudden range of salaries, I do think we can be a player when a star shakes loose. But I do think it's not impossible that we could develop like the old fashioned 'Bad Boy' Pistons did -- from playoff team to title contender (not in terms of personality, this would be the 'Good Guy' Celtics:).

LOL at all these takes. x10 on Fournier :lol:

Bohemian · Post #60 » by **Bohemian** » Tue Mar 30, 2021 4:52 pm

The team has no roles, anybody steps in and shoots from wherever and it doesn´t matter if there is time left on the clock or not, let alone to check if there´s someone rebounding.

No attack system. No protection of the ball. No passing motion. Players stagnant.

In defense, they are clueless, even Smart looks lost. There is no grit, no sacrifice.

There are no vets to let the youngsters accountable.

The road back to the top would take dramatic changes.