ImageImageImageImageImage

Starting center next year? Options are limited...

Moderators: 7 Footer, Duffman100, HiJiNX, niQ, Morris_Shatford, DG88, Reeko, lebron stopper

User avatar
Wannabe MEP
Analyst
Posts: 3,111
And1: 1,786
Joined: Sep 29, 2010
Location: Idaho
 

Starting center next year? Options are limited... 

Post#1 » by Wannabe MEP » Sun Apr 11, 2021 8:47 pm

Let's assume the starting lineup will look pretty much like this next year: FVV-Trent-OG-Siakam-______

Fundamental minimums for the starting center:

  1. Doesn't suck at defense
  2. Doesn't suck at offense
  3. Doesn't suck at shooting threes
I think we all agree about #1. Baynes helped illustrate #2 and #3 for us this year. I'd argue that it's possible to get away with a non-shooter at the five with some personnel combos, but it requires either elite offensive talent (e.g., Brooklyn) or excellent shooting at every other position (e.g., Utah). With $68 million in FVV, OG, and Siakam next year, I think the Raptors only choice is to have shooting at the five. (I previously made this case specifically because of Siakam here.)

In an attempt to give this some quantitative framing, I'm gonna use these basic definitions:

  1. Defense: at least +0.1 according to 538's defensive RAPTOR rating
  2. Offense: at least +0.1 according to 538's offensive RAPTOR rating
  3. 3-point shooting: at least 30 made threes on at least 35% shooting
^ I don't think that's a particularly high bar. But these are the only "centers" who hit it (ranked by Overall RAPTOR):

Player . . . . . . Off RAPTOR . . Def RAPTOR . . Overall RAPTOR . . 3PM . . . 3P%
Nikola Jokic . . . . . +9.1 . . . . . . . . +0.7 . . . . . . . . +9.8 . . . . . . 75 . . . 42.9
Joel Embiid . . . . . +4.0 . . . . . . . . +4.9 . . . . . . . . +8.9 . . . . . . 39 . . . 38.2
Christian Wood . . . +0.1 . . . . . . . . +3.9 . . . . . . . . +4.0 . . . . . . 51 . . . 36.7
Chris Boucher . . . . +2.7 . . . . . . . . +0.5 . . . . . . . . +3.2 . . . . . . 78 . . . 39.2
John Collins . . . . . +2.0 . . . . . . . . +1.1 . . . . . . . . +3.1 . . . . . . 60 . . . 38
Bobby Portis . . . . . +0.9 . . . . . . . . +2.0 . . . . . . . . +2.9 . . . . . . 52 . . . 46
Mike Muscala . . . . . +0.1 . . . . . . . . +2.1 . . . . . . . . +2.2 . . . . . . 68 . . . 37
Kristaps Porzingis . . +1.3 . . . . . . . . +0.2 . . . . . . . . +1.5 . . . . . . 76 . . . 36.9
Nikola Vucevic . . . . +0.6 . . . . . . . . +0.3 . . . . . . . . +0.9 . . . . . . 133 . . 40.7

That's it.

Now, maybe there are players I'm missing who are barely under in just one category, or developing players who are almost there (and might be next year). But still...not a high bar. And quite a few of these guys are impossible to obtain and/or really expensive for what they bring. E.g., Jokic and Embiid are untouchable, and are Porzingis and Vucevic worth their hefty contracts?

I believe quality, obtainable options are extremely limited. There's a big pool of centers out there, but there's a very small group of them that would fit logically in the Raptors starting lineup next year. So what are the options?

1) Offer John Collins the max

Young, talented, defends, shoots: complete player. Restricted free agent. May not love his current situation. Turned down $90 million deal. Will require a BIG contract -- probably max. Credit to Johnny Bball for suggesting this plan.

2) Roll with Boucher

In terms of quality for the price, I think this is a significantly better option than most people on these boards think it is. There are definitely better defensive centers out there, but when it comes to overall offense + defense + shooting, Boucher is on the short list. By overall RAPTOR, he's 4th on that list up there. And then factoring in availability and price...Boucher is hard to compete with. Spend the money elsewhere.

3) Target one of the less splashy names like Muscala or Portis
User avatar
Raps in 4
RealGM
Posts: 61,635
And1: 54,138
Joined: Nov 01, 2008
Location: Toronto
 

Re: Starting center next year? Options are limited... 

Post#2 » by Raps in 4 » Sun Apr 11, 2021 8:51 pm

Evan Mobley
tdotrep2
RealGM
Posts: 23,957
And1: 25,333
Joined: May 21, 2011
 

Re: Starting center next year? Options are limited... 

Post#3 » by tdotrep2 » Sun Apr 11, 2021 8:52 pm

holmes fit perfectly
User avatar
NBJ13
Head Coach
Posts: 6,636
And1: 7,189
Joined: Mar 09, 2010

Re: Starting center next year? Options are limited... 

Post#4 » by NBJ13 » Sun Apr 11, 2021 8:52 pm

We got Kawhi for a season and won a chip... nothing is impossible now
.
User avatar
Psubs
RealGM
Posts: 17,585
And1: 10,547
Joined: Nov 20, 2004
Location: Toronto

Re: Starting center next year? Options are limited... 

Post#5 » by Psubs » Sun Apr 11, 2021 8:58 pm

Collins if not then Olynyk.

Nurse is looking forward to coaching Birch from the national team so don't see why he wouldn't want Olynyk since he's starting at C for Team Canada.
Image
User avatar
TheBoi10
General Manager
Posts: 9,553
And1: 11,891
Joined: Apr 13, 2018
 

Re: Starting center next year? Options are limited... 

Post#6 » by TheBoi10 » Sun Apr 11, 2021 9:03 pm

Chicago is probably not keeping Lauri
Kreamy
RealGM
Posts: 15,539
And1: 2,097
Joined: Aug 26, 2001
Location: Toronto
   

Re: Starting center next year? Options are limited... 

Post#7 » by Kreamy » Sun Apr 11, 2021 9:05 pm

Trade for Myles Turner. Shouldn't take a whole lot, especially if Indiana decides to cut cost.
User avatar
Indeed
RealGM
Posts: 19,843
And1: 3,048
Joined: Aug 21, 2009

Re: Starting center next year? Options are limited... 

Post#8 » by Indeed » Sun Apr 11, 2021 9:06 pm

1) John Collins is not a C, does he even plays defense?
2) Boucher is not a C, cannot defend against big C
3) Worse option.

I don't think we will target a stretch 5, since teams have been mixed with a stretch 5 with their defense. You are more likely looking at a PF/C who is strong to push legit C off and secure rebound, while agile enough against PnR.

Holmes is an option, but he is undersize (smaller than Siakam), and performing well in a losing team.

The goal will have Siakam improves his shooting (reason we pay him the max), and have a PnR rim protector who can shoot the mid-range. A role player would be enough, but it really depends on how Siakam can progress and spacing the floor.

I prefer to focus on a SG/SF who can replace the scoring of Lowry (money wise).
Rapsfan07
RealGM
Posts: 14,251
And1: 5,413
Joined: Nov 19, 2010
 

Re: Starting center next year? Options are limited... 

Post#9 » by Rapsfan07 » Sun Apr 11, 2021 9:07 pm

I'd keep my eye on Myles Turner.

Indiana might be looking to cut costs and there's no team that needs him more than we do.

If our pick this year doesn't end up in the top 5, I wouldn't mind dealing it for Turner.
Image
User avatar
Indeed
RealGM
Posts: 19,843
And1: 3,048
Joined: Aug 21, 2009

Re: Starting center next year? Options are limited... 

Post#10 » by Indeed » Sun Apr 11, 2021 9:08 pm

Kreamy wrote:Trade for Myles Turner. Shouldn't take a whole lot, especially if Indiana decides to cut cost.


Rapsfan07 wrote:I'd keep my eye on Myles Turner.

Indiana might be looking to cut costs and there's no team that needs him more than we do.

If our pick this year doesn't end up in the top 5, I wouldn't mind dealing it for Turner.


I doubt Indiana would trade Turner for cost saving reason. You are not going to get a cheaper C who can perform (look at ourselves). There is simply not many replacement.
will
RealGM
Posts: 50,506
And1: 49,385
Joined: Jan 08, 2006
Location: Pat's Homestyle Jamaican Restaurant. Shouts to Sheryl's Caribbean Cuisine
Contact:
         

Re: Starting center next year? Options are limited... 

Post#11 » by will » Sun Apr 11, 2021 9:09 pm

Myles Turner or Allen from the Cavs.
TorontoRapsFan
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,943
And1: 1,367
Joined: May 11, 2017
       

Re: Starting center next year? Options are limited... 

Post#12 » by TorontoRapsFan » Sun Apr 11, 2021 9:11 pm

Olynyk for Baynes money would be a great get. Raps can try to trade for Capella, Hawks will look to get rid of his contract having decided on Collins. Raps can try to sign Mitchel Robinson. NYK is likely to not pick up his option and let him become a RFA so that they can match a low offer. They might decide they don't want to spend the money on him at the end of the day. That's a long shot. Picking up Muscala on a small salary as competition for back up would be great. And hopefully they stay as far away from non defensive bigs like Holmes as possible.
Image
User avatar
Indeed
RealGM
Posts: 19,843
And1: 3,048
Joined: Aug 21, 2009

Re: Starting center next year? Options are limited... 

Post#13 » by Indeed » Sun Apr 11, 2021 9:11 pm

will wrote:Myles Turner or Allen from the Cavs.


I only got sources saying they are not trading Turner, so what is the evidence that Indiana wants to trade Turner?

Here is an article:
https://www.indystar.com/story/sports/nba/pacers/2021/03/23/nba-trade-deadline-indiana-pacers-arent-shopping-myles-turner/4708035001/
howlin mad axer
Starter
Posts: 2,148
And1: 1,479
Joined: May 30, 2018
Location: Gothamilton
         

Re: Starting center next year? Options are limited... 

Post#14 » by howlin mad axer » Sun Apr 11, 2021 9:14 pm

I have no problem with Boucher starting now, so why not next season?
will
RealGM
Posts: 50,506
And1: 49,385
Joined: Jan 08, 2006
Location: Pat's Homestyle Jamaican Restaurant. Shouts to Sheryl's Caribbean Cuisine
Contact:
         

Re: Starting center next year? Options are limited... 

Post#15 » by will » Sun Apr 11, 2021 9:15 pm

Indeed wrote:
will wrote:Myles Turner or Allen from the Cavs.


I only got sources saying they are not trading Turner, so what is the evidence that Indiana wants to trade Turner?

Here is an article:
https://www.indystar.com/story/sports/nba/pacers/2021/03/23/nba-trade-deadline-indiana-pacers-arent-shopping-myles-turner/4708035001/


I have absolutely ZERO sources.

Just decided to be a real gm Raptors poster and just start tossing out names without any research :lol:
TorontoRapsFan
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,943
And1: 1,367
Joined: May 11, 2017
       

Re: Starting center next year? Options are limited... 

Post#16 » by TorontoRapsFan » Sun Apr 11, 2021 9:16 pm

Indeed wrote:
Kreamy wrote:Trade for Myles Turner. Shouldn't take a whole lot, especially if Indiana decides to cut cost.


Rapsfan07 wrote:I'd keep my eye on Myles Turner.

Indiana might be looking to cut costs and there's no team that needs him more than we do.

If our pick this year doesn't end up in the top 5, I wouldn't mind dealing it for Turner.


I doubt Indiana would trade Turner for cost saving reason. You are not going to get a cheaper C who can perform (look at ourselves). There is simply not many replacement.


Myles Turner is not looking as good as he did at the beginning of the season and before season started there was a lot of talk of wanting to get rid of his contract.

Honestly I look at Turner now and can't understand how this guy can't average 6rbs a game as a starter. I mean I'd still take him as long as he's available for little return and because alternatives are low. But his contribution doesn't really make his 18 or 15 mil deal a bargain anymore.
Image
User avatar
Psubs
RealGM
Posts: 17,585
And1: 10,547
Joined: Nov 20, 2004
Location: Toronto

Re: Starting center next year? Options are limited... 

Post#17 » by Psubs » Sun Apr 11, 2021 9:20 pm

TheBoi10 wrote:Chicago is probably not keeping Lauri


It's weird, because then not pawn him off on Orlando and save some 1st picks. I guess Orlando didn't want him?

Would rather just sign Olynyk for less and not send assets.
Image
User avatar
ThemCrookedRefs
Head Coach
Posts: 6,069
And1: 11,190
Joined: May 18, 2010
 

Re: Starting center next year? Options are limited... 

Post#18 » by ThemCrookedRefs » Sun Apr 11, 2021 9:21 pm

We don't need to spend a ton on a centre. We just need a competent player that has some size, can play solid defence, rebound, contest shots, and hit open layups; typical big man things. Let's see how the guys we just signed perform in their rest of season tryouts. Either way, just say no to Baynes...
mtcan
RealGM
Posts: 24,386
And1: 20,313
Joined: May 19, 2001

Re: Starting center next year? Options are limited... 

Post#19 » by mtcan » Sun Apr 11, 2021 9:23 pm

ThemCrookedRefs wrote:We don't need to spend a ton on a centre. We just need a competent player that has some size, can play solid defence, rebound, contest shots, and hit open layups; typical big man things. Let's see how the guys we just signed perform in their rest of season tryouts. Either way, just say no to Baynes...

We all thought Baynes and Len did those things...
User avatar
ThemCrookedRefs
Head Coach
Posts: 6,069
And1: 11,190
Joined: May 18, 2010
 

Re: Starting center next year? Options are limited... 

Post#20 » by ThemCrookedRefs » Sun Apr 11, 2021 9:24 pm

mtcan wrote:
ThemCrookedRefs wrote:We don't need to spend a ton on a centre. We just need a competent player that has some size, can play solid defence, rebound, contest shots, and hit open layups; typical big man things. Let's see how the guys we just signed perform in their rest of season tryouts. Either way, just say no to Baynes...

We all thought Baynes and Len did those things...

Well the FO better not mess it up again! :lol:

Return to Toronto Raptors