Nikola Vučević discussion thread

[bledredwine]

He shot 48% from the field and went 4/7 from downtown. I'm not sure how anyone who watched that game could walk away with the analysis that he was atrocious.

Of course Vuc wasn't atrocious, but at that volume, it starts to matter how many shots you miss. Not exactly like shoooting 7/15 or something.

Anyway, hopefully this was an outlier, with the Pacers being so depleted

The one thing surprising about Vuc is that he doesn't really get to the free-throw line much. Hopefully that's a facet he can still add to his game.

That said, if someone's giving you 32 points on good shooting, it's hard for me to understand why you'd say it was atrocious (although, you then said he wasn't atrocious, so I'm not sure what exactly your criticism is). The number of shots missed don't really matter if the overall shooting percentage is at least on par or better than what we shoot as a team. In this game Vuc shot better than the team (although Zach primarily dragged down the rest of the team's FG%). The days of equal opportunity offense are over IMO. This is Vuc and Zach's team now, so the offense is going to be designed to get them the most shots and that also gives us the best chance to win games.

I’ve noticed this as well. I think that it’s partially due to his game being finess and space-oriented. He doesn’t seem like the type to force anything. Even his aggressive post-ups are controlled. That might be why.

[suursahuri]

There's a Aaron Gordon story by Sam Amick in the Athletic. I don't have a subscription right now and I would like to know if Gordon mentions Vucevic. Can anybody help with that?

[Ice Man]

Returning to the previous topic, 32 points on 29 shots truly isn't much good. SexLand went a combined 44 points against us on 43 shots. Had that been a single player, many would have said, "Hey 44 points, great game." But those guys sunk the Cavs' offense.

The rest of the Cavs scored 52 points on 45 shots, a better ratio. And the Bulls were 106 points on 82 shots, much better yet. If you're only getting about 1 point per shot, your team generally will lose.

[MrSparkle]

Like Pau Gasol, IMO there's a threshold at which a one-way offensive center is more helpful than a defensive (i.e. Noah). I thought we could go further with Pau, and had a good chance until he missed the rest of the Cavs series. I feel like schemes can mask your 1 or 5 (not both), assuming their offense is worth the effort.

With Vuc, our 1-4 must be on point defensively.

Just my 2c. Also fully aware that it can back-fire spectacularly. I thought Jokic and the Nuggets were going to be booted by the Jazz in last year's bubble, until Malone figured out a defensive combo at 1-4 which worked.

You need to build a very specific team, which presents some limitations. Your top-priorities become tweener/defensive wings and a PnR/scoring PG. Which we are short on.

The big problem with Vuc, is he's listed at 7ft... But he looks small next to Embiid and Jokic. The way Embiid is playing this year, and their athleticism, if we do somehow sneak into the first round, I'd expect a bloody, 4-0 massacre.

[SalmonsSuperfan]

Returning to the previous topic, 32 points on 29 shots truly isn't much good. SexLand went a combined 44 points against us on 43 shots. Had that been a single player, many would have said, "Hey 44 points, great game." But those guys sunk the Cavs' offense.

The rest of the Cavs scored 52 points on 45 shots, a better ratio. And the Bulls were 106 points on 82 shots, much better yet. If you're only getting about 1 point per shot, your team generally will lose.

these things depend though. if you say 'x amount of points on y amount of shots' you're not factoring in free throws as a shot even though 2 free throws is effectively 1 shot. for instance, a player might score 30 points on 10/20 shooting and you might say, wow that's a pretty nice shooting performance, 30 points on 20 shots. but then if those 10 made baskets translate into 20 points and the extra 10 points came from 10/20 from the line, suddenly the adjusted shooting performance is 15/30 which is still pretty good but not stellar. that's where TS% becomes a more useful stat than pure FG%.

[Creativetran]

Orlando fans trying to act like Vuc isn't valuable

He's a top 4 rebounder and one of the best scorers this season. Of course he's worth our crappy picks.

I don't think MOST Magic fans are in that boat, we love the guy and still follow him closely.

[Creativetran]

The big problem with Vuc, is he's listed at 7ft... But he looks small next to Embiid and Jokic. The way Embiid is playing this year, and their athleticism, if we do somehow sneak into the first round, I'd expect a bloody, 4-0 massacre.

I don't recall his exact stats against Embiid but he was never really embarrassed by him I want to say, the only center Vuc really had issues with was Marc Gasol

[MrSparkle]

The big problem with Vuc, is he's listed at 7ft... But he looks small next to Embiid and Jokic. The way Embiid is playing this year, and their athleticism, if we do somehow sneak into the first round, I'd expect a bloody, 4-0 massacre.

I don't recall his exact stats against Embiid but he was never really embarrassed by him I want to say, the only center Vuc really had issues with was Marc Gasol

I think Embiid's on another level this year. Every center in the league is going to get massacred by him. I'm assuming he was pretty pissed off after the bubble, being called out by everybody. Only thing stopping Philly will be their outside shooting (obviously tied into Simmons).

[bledredwine]

Orlando fans trying to act like Vuc isn't valuable

He's a top 4 rebounder and one of the best scorers this season. Of course he's worth our crappy picks.

I don't think MOST Magic fans are in that boat, we love the guy and still follow him closely.

That’s actually good to hear. I love his offensive style and think that he’s a great team player. His defense is indeed awful.

This all being said, I’m rooting for you guys and have been for decades. I hope that you can make good use of the picks and get some solid guys in the rotation. If we’re being honest, the lack of Competent New York, Detroit, Orlando and Chicago squads has left the East in a state of boredom for decades. For good basketball to happen again, we’re all in it together IMO

[Leslie Forman]

Alright, I think I've seen enough so I'm just gonna say it: this guy is white DeMarcus Cousins.

Not exactly, of course. He has some slightly different negative/positive traits. He has fewer turnovers, but even worse defense. He doesn't ever pout, but he also doesn't ever bring any intensity. Ultimately, the end result is the same - he puts up similar box score impact (very, very high) with similar W/L column impact (very, very low).

So why is this? Why is he not having some Embiid/Jokic-like effect?

1. The bottom tier defense. He's not "ok," he's not "passable," he is flat out awful. If you look at the league's starting centers, I honestly cannot see a worse defending first choice starting center in the league. At best, he's on a similar level as a Bryant/Wood/Towns type. But his mobility and explosiveness is so poor that I still say he's even worse than them.

2. He was billed as some excellent passer with amazing vision who could potentially be a poor man's Jokic - nope. His passing is basically just Satoransky-ish. He is able to have such a good assist:turnover ratio because he's incredibly risk averse, which leads to low turnover numbers, but also means he is not gonna be dishing out dimes like some point center. Thadgic is easily a better passer IMO.

3. He doesn't drive. No, not literally never. But it is simply not a big part of his game. He, like Lauri, is just an opportunistic driver, not a forceful one. Combined with his good, but hardly special post ability, it means he doesn't warp defenses at all. You don't have to double this guy, and he doesn't create many defensive collapses, as he simply doesn't force the issue enough.

People say I'm just a hater, well I tried. I really tried to see something in his game to make me think we're not just seeing the beginning of another unsuccessful "plan" yet again. Well after these 15 games and everything I've read from Orlando fans who watched him for almost a decade, I'm sorry. This trade was a total dud and it was incredibly predictable.

[MGB8]

Too early to really judge.

The Bulls traded a mediocre defensive center and two first round picks for a strong offensive center with a versatile inside-outside game and a high offensive basketball IQ, who also is a good rebounder. And he's on an excellent contract.

I don't think he's awful defensively, either - although he quite clearly isn't good and can't "anchor" a defense - you can be a decent defensive team with him - but that will be based on the defensive abilities of the players around him. .

The problems are that:

(1) due to the trade, it's not like the Bulls have developed a system which Vuc and the other players have gotten to know together;

(2) the Bulls don't have good defensive personnel to start with, particularly at the wing, where their best players are a near-bust later first round pick that they just traded for, a rookie, and an older 2nd year energy player; and

(3) he's on the wrong side of 30.

AK and Donovan seem to have misjudged how close the Bulls were to being a good team... because that's a big cost (2 lotto picks for high end players, one trade asset) for a borderline all-star in the least valuable NBA position who is exiting his prime.

[MrSparkle]

Alright, I think I've seen enough so I'm just gonna say it: this guy is white DeMarcus Cousins.

Not exactly, of course. He has some slightly different negative/positive traits. He has fewer turnovers, but even worse defense. He doesn't ever pout, but he also doesn't ever bring any intensity. Ultimately, the end result is the same - he puts up similar box score impact (very, very high) with similar W/L column impact (very, very low).

So why is this? Why is he not having some Embiid/Jokic-like effect?

1. The bottom tier defense. He's not "ok," he's not "passable," he is flat out awful. If you look at the league's starting centers, I honestly cannot see a worse defending first choice starting center in the league. At best, he's on a similar level as a Bryant/Wood/Towns type. But his mobility and explosiveness is so poor that I still say he's even worse than them.

2. He was billed as some excellent passer with amazing vision who could potentially be a poor man's Jokic - nope. His passing is basically just Satoransky-ish. He is able to have such a good assist:turnover ratio because he's incredibly risk averse, which leads to low turnover numbers, but also means he is not gonna be dishing out dimes like some point center. Thadgic is easily a better passer IMO.

3. He doesn't drive. No, not literally never. But it is simply not a big part of his game. He, like Lauri, is just an opportunistic driver, not a forceful one. Combined with his good, but hardly special post ability, it means he doesn't warp defenses at all. You don't have to double this guy, and he doesn't create many defensive collapses, as he simply doesn't force the issue enough.

People say I'm just a hater, well I tried. I really tried to see something in his game to make me think we're not just seeing the beginning of another unsuccessful "plan" yet again. Well after these 15 games and everything I've read from Orlando fans who watched him for almost a decade, I'm sorry. This trade was a total dud and it was incredibly predictable.

I think pre-injury Cousins is a solid comparison. But Cousins with a much better locker-room attitude and a better contract (front-loaded $22m vs Cousins' max) is a good player in my book.

That Kings era made notoriously bad decisions over and over again; never mind the terrible lotto drafting (Stauskas, Fredette, McLemore, Robinson, WCS, etc.), horrible trades (dumping Isaiah for literally nothing, dumping multiple unprotected FRPs/swaps in addition to their dud FRP picks for cap to sign Rondo and Koufos), their numerous questionable coaching fires and hires... they were stuck with horrendous trade pieces.

So unless AKME make terrible trades and signings this summer, start meddling in Donovan's business and going through 3 coaches in the next 3 seasons, I'm not sure that we end up in that mess. Vuc and Zach are a combined $44m against the 21/22 cap. I think Artunas is going to operate free agency more like Riley's S&T/bird-rights method than GarPax's keep the cap clean and pray for Melo. I expect S&Ts and resigns with short-windows (Theis/Temple).

I really wish Morey hadn't gotten the Philly job, cause one more year of an incompetent GM and one of those two superstars could've been traded for some fool's gold package (ala the entire Bulls farm). But I just don't see any such moves on the horizon. There is not going to be a young star on the move for the foreseeable future. That's the main reason I was fine with the Orlando trade. Top-4 pick or a competent team. I'm tired of building around 7-12 picks; that's the tread mill. Especially this draft, I'm seeing a very dull 6-15. Honestly, I think after this season, LaVine has a direct trade value for a 3-5 pick if we want to entertain that (depending which teams sneak into the top-5). Weaver seems like the kind of GM who'll trade #3 and salaries for Zach.

You have to admit, this post-deadline team just might've lost more games than the pre-deadline team would've. By jamming Theis and Thad into the PF spot, Pat at SF, and Lauri into a mash of the two forward spots, we've made games almost un-winnable barre brilliant execution. I think this draft was top-4 or bust, and I had no interest in drafting one of the guys (Mobley). The trade does put us in that position, albeit lower odds then if Zach was traded for some crap offer last year.

Regardless, I do think it's time to sabotage the rest of the season. Run the offense through Coby and Pat as much as possible. If we send our #7 to ORL, so be it. Worth the shot at 1-4. Short of selling short on Zach last year, these all seem like equally weighted scenarios. I don't think I could stand to watch more mid/late picks added to this squad (whatever Zach/Wendell/Lauri garnered in trades).

IMO, they need to put a 3D wing at forward and develop Pat, and Vuc will be fine. I'm mildly concerned about Thad and Theis returning as next year's PF rotation.

[PaKii94]

Alright, I think I've seen enough so I'm just gonna say it: this guy is white DeMarcus Cousins.

Not exactly, of course. He has some slightly different negative/positive traits. He has fewer turnovers, but even worse defense. He doesn't ever pout, but he also doesn't ever bring any intensity. Ultimately, the end result is the same - he puts up similar box score impact (very, very high) with similar W/L column impact (very, very low).

So why is this? Why is he not having some Embiid/Jokic-like effect?

1. The bottom tier defense. He's not "ok," he's not "passable," he is flat out awful. If you look at the league's starting centers, I honestly cannot see a worse defending first choice starting center in the league. At best, he's on a similar level as a Bryant/Wood/Towns type. But his mobility and explosiveness is so poor that I still say he's even worse than them.

2. He was billed as some excellent passer with amazing vision who could potentially be a poor man's Jokic - nope. His passing is basically just Satoransky-ish. He is able to have such a good assist:turnover ratio because he's incredibly risk averse, which leads to low turnover numbers, but also means he is not gonna be dishing out dimes like some point center. Thadgic is easily a better passer IMO.

3. He doesn't drive. No, not literally never. But it is simply not a big part of his game. He, like Lauri, is just an opportunistic driver, not a forceful one. Combined with his good, but hardly special post ability, it means he doesn't warp defenses at all. You don't have to double this guy, and he doesn't create many defensive collapses, as he simply doesn't force the issue enough.

People say I'm just a hater, well I tried. I really tried to see something in his game to make me think we're not just seeing the beginning of another unsuccessful "plan" yet again. Well after these 15 games and everything I've read from Orlando fans who watched him for almost a decade, I'm sorry. This trade was a total dud and it was incredibly predictable.

Usually I don't agree with your takes but unfortunately I think you are on point with your Vuc takes. Now that the honeymoon phase is over, Vuc's deficiencies are pretty easy to see. His defense is definitely atrocious.

Also I get the same vibes from his offense. It's really good but not really game changing. He takes what the offense gives him, and with his huge volume, he takes a lot. The key thing for centers in the post is being able to draw fouls. Vuc is one of the worst in the league when it comes to that. Which kinda puts a cap on the impact he can provide.

The hope with Vuc is he can make shots at an above average clip Consistently. Because if he's not providing that, then his impact is going to be pretty poor

[sco]

Alright, I think I've seen enough so I'm just gonna say it: this guy is white DeMarcus Cousins.

Not exactly, of course. He has some slightly different negative/positive traits. He has fewer turnovers, but even worse defense. He doesn't ever pout, but he also doesn't ever bring any intensity. Ultimately, the end result is the same - he puts up similar box score impact (very, very high) with similar W/L column impact (very, very low).

So why is this? Why is he not having some Embiid/Jokic-like effect?

1. The bottom tier defense. He's not "ok," he's not "passable," he is flat out awful. If you look at the league's starting centers, I honestly cannot see a worse defending first choice starting center in the league. At best, he's on a similar level as a Bryant/Wood/Towns type. But his mobility and explosiveness is so poor that I still say he's even worse than them.

2. He was billed as some excellent passer with amazing vision who could potentially be a poor man's Jokic - nope. His passing is basically just Satoransky-ish. He is able to have such a good assist:turnover ratio because he's incredibly risk averse, which leads to low turnover numbers, but also means he is not gonna be dishing out dimes like some point center. Thadgic is easily a better passer IMO.

3. He doesn't drive. No, not literally never. But it is simply not a big part of his game. He, like Lauri, is just an opportunistic driver, not a forceful one. Combined with his good, but hardly special post ability, it means he doesn't warp defenses at all. You don't have to double this guy, and he doesn't create many defensive collapses, as he simply doesn't force the issue enough.

People say I'm just a hater, well I tried. I really tried to see something in his game to make me think we're not just seeing the beginning of another unsuccessful "plan" yet again. Well after these 15 games and everything I've read from Orlando fans who watched him for almost a decade, I'm sorry. This trade was a total dud and it was incredibly predictable.

Usually I don't agree with your takes but unfortunately I think you are on point with your Vuc takes. Now that the honeymoon phase is over, Vuc's deficiencies are pretty easy to see. His defense is definitely atrocious.

Also I get the same vibes from his offense. It's really good but not really game changing. He takes what the offense gives him, and with his huge volume, he takes a lot. The key thing for centers in the post is being able to draw fouls. Vuc is one of the worst in the league when it comes to that. Which kinda puts a cap on the impact he can provide.

The hope with Vuc is he can make shots at an above average clip Consistently. Because if he's not providing that, then his impact is going to be pretty poor

I'm usually the one with the hot takes, but the dude has had maybe 2 practices since he got here. It's easy to say guys suck on defense when they are learning a new system, mainly because the 1/2 second you need to think about your responsibility, you are often late on rotations and close-outs.

[Hugi Mancura]

Alright, I think I've seen enough so I'm just gonna say it: this guy is white DeMarcus Cousins.

Not exactly, of course. He has some slightly different negative/positive traits. He has fewer turnovers, but even worse defense. He doesn't ever pout, but he also doesn't ever bring any intensity. Ultimately, the end result is the same - he puts up similar box score impact (very, very high) with similar W/L column impact (very, very low).

So why is this? Why is he not having some Embiid/Jokic-like effect?

1. The bottom tier defense. He's not "ok," he's not "passable," he is flat out awful. If you look at the league's starting centers, I honestly cannot see a worse defending first choice starting center in the league. At best, he's on a similar level as a Bryant/Wood/Towns type. But his mobility and explosiveness is so poor that I still say he's even worse than them.

2. He was billed as some excellent passer with amazing vision who could potentially be a poor man's Jokic - nope. His passing is basically just Satoransky-ish. He is able to have such a good assist:turnover ratio because he's incredibly risk averse, which leads to low turnover numbers, but also means he is not gonna be dishing out dimes like some point center. Thadgic is easily a better passer IMO.

3. He doesn't drive. No, not literally never. But it is simply not a big part of his game. He, like Lauri, is just an opportunistic driver, not a forceful one. Combined with his good, but hardly special post ability, it means he doesn't warp defenses at all. You don't have to double this guy, and he doesn't create many defensive collapses, as he simply doesn't force the issue enough.

People say I'm just a hater, well I tried. I really tried to see something in his game to make me think we're not just seeing the beginning of another unsuccessful "plan" yet again. Well after these 15 games and everything I've read from Orlando fans who watched him for almost a decade, I'm sorry. This trade was a total dud and it was incredibly predictable.

Usually I don't agree with your takes but unfortunately I think you are on point with your Vuc takes. Now that the honeymoon phase is over, Vuc's deficiencies are pretty easy to see. His defense is definitely atrocious.

Also I get the same vibes from his offense. It's really good but not really game changing. He takes what the offense gives him, and with his huge volume, he takes a lot. The key thing for centers in the post is being able to draw fouls. Vuc is one of the worst in the league when it comes to that. Which kinda puts a cap on the impact he can provide.

The hope with Vuc is he can make shots at an above average clip Consistently. Because if he's not providing that, then his impact is going to be pretty poor

I'm usually the one with the hot takes, but the dude has had maybe 2 practices since he got here. It's easy to say guys suck on defense when they are learning a new system, mainly because the 1/2 second you need to think about your responsibility, you are often late on rotations and close-outs.

Vucevic's bad defense is not a hot take. He was worst defender with Magic too. It would be a hot take if he would have played good defense with Bulls, but he isn't, so it is what he is.

Basketball is similar game as every other game. It is about winning. It is not a game about offense or defense. It is a game that involves both. Does Vucevic play winning basketball? He had worst on/off with Orlando and now he has worst on/off with Bulls. You can easily claim he is biggest loser in both of these teams. Even if you don't believe in on/off or plus-minus you must see this is something extremely bad. If he is the biggest loser in two teams does he really deserve the money he gets? I know all the news papers, social media and fans glorify offense and thus glorify Vucevic, but for me he is a loser and biggest loser in Bulls as long he keep on playing like he has so far. Player like Vucevic does improve team offense by improving shooting% by 2%, but at the same time opponents shooting% improves 5%. That is not winning basketball.

Can Bulls improve with Vuc. Sure, just hire defensive players, but Vuc should give half of his salary to those players, because they are there to save his ass, not vice versa.

This become little bit a rant, but people doesn't seem to understand how bad basketball player Vucevic is. He is great scorer, but that doesn't make him even an average basketball player. Yes, he is an all star, but that is huge travesty and just an example how in NBA they don't value winning anymore. He is Kardashians of the NBA. Looks good and earns money they don't deserve, but still doesn't really give anything to the world.

[ZOMG]

Some good takes in this thread. I wrote the following yesterday but forgot to post it:
-----------------------------------

Vucevic is a guy who doesn't put a lot of pressure on the defense. He's the kind of player who has "quiet" 25 point nights.

You almost don't notice he's scoring because he's so content with taking what defenses give him. The problem is, defenses are giving him some of the most inefficient shots in the game (for instance, Vuc takes a TON of very long 2's and well contested midrange jumpers) and he's happy to keep firing away. True, he makes a lot of those, but as we've already seen on the Bulls, if his team leans on that stuff too much, it breaks the offense.

Another obvious symptom of this tendency is his inability to get to the line. He's unathletic and pretty slow, so he's made a virtue out of necessity by turning himself into an expert of tough, inefficient shots.

Weirdly, Vucevic and Zach have many of the same problems despite being very different physically. Both are high volume scorers who don't get to the line and keep taking the difficult shots defenses want them to take. Both have bad defensive awareness (and often, effort).

Neither is a winning basketball player.

[PaKii94]

Alright, I think I've seen enough so I'm just gonna say it: this guy is white DeMarcus Cousins.

Not exactly, of course. He has some slightly different negative/positive traits. He has fewer turnovers, but even worse defense. He doesn't ever pout, but he also doesn't ever bring any intensity. Ultimately, the end result is the same - he puts up similar box score impact (very, very high) with similar W/L column impact (very, very low).

So why is this? Why is he not having some Embiid/Jokic-like effect?

1. The bottom tier defense. He's not "ok," he's not "passable," he is flat out awful. If you look at the league's starting centers, I honestly cannot see a worse defending first choice starting center in the league. At best, he's on a similar level as a Bryant/Wood/Towns type. But his mobility and explosiveness is so poor that I still say he's even worse than them.

2. He was billed as some excellent passer with amazing vision who could potentially be a poor man's Jokic - nope. His passing is basically just Satoransky-ish. He is able to have such a good assist:turnover ratio because he's incredibly risk averse, which leads to low turnover numbers, but also means he is not gonna be dishing out dimes like some point center. Thadgic is easily a better passer IMO.

3. He doesn't drive. No, not literally never. But it is simply not a big part of his game. He, like Lauri, is just an opportunistic driver, not a forceful one. Combined with his good, but hardly special post ability, it means he doesn't warp defenses at all. You don't have to double this guy, and he doesn't create many defensive collapses, as he simply doesn't force the issue enough.

People say I'm just a hater, well I tried. I really tried to see something in his game to make me think we're not just seeing the beginning of another unsuccessful "plan" yet again. Well after these 15 games and everything I've read from Orlando fans who watched him for almost a decade, I'm sorry. This trade was a total dud and it was incredibly predictable.

Usually I don't agree with your takes but unfortunately I think you are on point with your Vuc takes. Now that the honeymoon phase is over, Vuc's deficiencies are pretty easy to see. His defense is definitely atrocious.

Also I get the same vibes from his offense. It's really good but not really game changing. He takes what the offense gives him, and with his huge volume, he takes a lot. The key thing for centers in the post is being able to draw fouls. Vuc is one of the worst in the league when it comes to that. Which kinda puts a cap on the impact he can provide.

The hope with Vuc is he can make shots at an above average clip Consistently. Because if he's not providing that, then his impact is going to be pretty poor

I'm usually the one with the hot takes, but the dude has had maybe 2 practices since he got here. It's easy to say guys suck on defense when they are learning a new system, mainly because the 1/2 second you need to think about your responsibility, you are often late on rotations and close-outs.

I really can't put it on lack of practice when he's been like this most of his career. Also the lack of feel on defense is pretty apparent. Half the time he doesn't even try getting into defensive positioning

[Ice Man]

The Boogie comparison isn't half bad. They play a different style of game, Boogie being more of a banger/driver and Vuce more of a pick-and-pop finesser, but they're similar in both being bulky centers who get the ball a lot, score a lot, and have defensive issues due to immobility.

However ... prime Boogie had strong real +/- scores for the Kings, which suggests (if one believes that stat) that it wouldn't be correct to say that prime Boogie didn't help his team win games.

[chefo]

Vuc isn't nearly as bad on D as he's looked as a Bull. The last 4-5 years, the Magic were mediocre to pretty good on D with him playing heavy minutes. He can be hidden on D, but you need good defenders around him like Isaac. He does certain things well--he eats up space, boxes out well and boards well. He's a 7 foot Boozer on D in a sense--not good, by any stretch, but passable if he plays on a team that's not a leaking boat at every other position as well.

If you're asking him to a defensive anchor that stops penetration by himself--yeah, you're barking up the wrong tree.

[Ice Man]

Vuc isn't nearly as bad on D as he's looked as a Bull. The last 4-5 years, the Magic were mediocre to pretty good on D with him playing heavy minutes. He can be hidden on D, but you need good defenders around him like Isaac. He does certain things well--he eats up space, boxes out well and boards well. He's a 7 foot Boozer on D in a sense--not good, by any stretch, but passable if he plays on a team that's not a leaking boat at every other position as well.

I think that's right. The Bulls had an elite defense in the 2011 and 2012 season while starting Boozer. The rest of the defenders covered for Carlos. He was asked to do what he could succeed at, which was to defend 1v1 inside and use his strength to get defensive rebounds. He wasn't asked to switch onto guards, get out onto the perimeter, or excel at help defense. Same for Vuce. At least in theory, he could be part of a strong defense.