Knicks are 17-7 when Rose plays (58 win pace)

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Re: Knicks are 17-7 when Rose plays (58 win pace) 

Post#21 » by Scalabrine » Thu Apr 22, 2021 1:08 pm

LouisLitt wrote:
Tor_Raps wrote:Why haven't the Knicks put him in the starting lineup over Payton?


If you actually watch the games, he's really not doing anything special.

It's Randle who's having a great month.


Multiple players are having great months.

Over the the month of April:
Rose 16/3/3 on 50/36/87 shooting splits
RJ 18/4/3 on 47/50/80 shooting splits.
Bullock 14/3/2 on 48/44/100 shooting splits
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Re: Knicks are 17-7 when Rose plays (58 win pace) 

Post#22 » by ellobo » Thu Apr 22, 2021 1:29 pm

Capn'O wrote:
Tor_Raps wrote:Why haven't the Knicks put him in the starting lineup over Payton?


Reasons known only to Thibs and God.

And I'm not so sure about God.

BTW, the Knicks are also 17-7 when Frank Ntilikina plays.
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Re: Knicks are 17-7 when Rose plays (58 win pace) 

Post#23 » by iLLmatic860 » Thu Apr 22, 2021 1:34 pm

LouisLitt wrote:
Tor_Raps wrote:Why haven't the Knicks put him in the starting lineup over Payton?


If you actually watch the games, he's really not doing anything special.

It's Randle who's having a great month.

Yes Randle having a great month but Rose leadership and decision making late in games have been crucial
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Re: Knicks are 17-7 when Rose plays (58 win pace) 

Post#24 » by BodieB » Thu Apr 22, 2021 1:46 pm

He's going to be extremely valuable in the playoffs with his big game experience and leadership.
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Re: Knicks are 17-7 when Rose plays (58 win pace) 

Post#25 » by KnicksGadfly » Thu Apr 22, 2021 1:48 pm

LouisLitt wrote:
Tor_Raps wrote:Why haven't the Knicks put him in the starting lineup over Payton?


If you actually watch the games, he's really not doing anything special.

It's Randle who's having a great month.


Nice but what does that have to do with Elfrid
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Re: Knicks are 17-7 when Rose plays (58 win pace) 

Post#26 » by OkcSinceSGA » Thu Apr 22, 2021 1:55 pm

Knicks in general are the NBA’s highest differential since all star weekend. Incredible stat to me. They aren’t going to be an easy 1st round exit.
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Re: Knicks are 17-7 when Rose plays (58 win pace) 

Post#27 » by Chanel Bomber » Thu Apr 22, 2021 2:01 pm

GSP wrote:3 losses @ Miami, @ Brooklyn and @ Boston were each by only 2pts too....

Hes been one of the biggest midseason acquisitions in the league. Great to see a former Mvp reinvent his game and still be a really good overall player that plays both ends even in a reduced role from his prime. Also overcame nasty false allegations from a bitter dusty ex which mustve taken a big toll on him off court

Hes been one of the premier players in the league coming off the bench for years now and now were seeing him still have that impact on a playoff team pushing them to even further heights

Rose has been excellent in his role.

But he's still an average or mediocre point guard big picture.

What this shows is how much Elfrid Payton is actually holding the Knicks back.

Decent point guard play unlocks the talents of Randle and RJ, who have both improved massively since last season. Thibs has also attributed the right roles to the role players, so the pieces fit. This team is more talented than we assumed, in addition to the fact that it's playing better than the sum of its parts.
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Re: Knicks are 17-7 when Rose plays (58 win pace) 

Post#28 » by Capn'O » Thu Apr 22, 2021 2:03 pm

Chanel Bomber wrote:
GSP wrote:3 losses @ Miami, @ Brooklyn and @ Boston were each by only 2pts too....

Hes been one of the biggest midseason acquisitions in the league. Great to see a former Mvp reinvent his game and still be a really good overall player that plays both ends even in a reduced role from his prime. Also overcame nasty false allegations from a bitter dusty ex which mustve taken a big toll on him off court

Hes been one of the premier players in the league coming off the bench for years now and now were seeing him still have that impact on a playoff team pushing them to even further heights

Rose has been excellent in his role.

But he's still an average or mediocre point guard big picture.

What this shows is how much Elfrid Payton is actually holding the Knicks back.

Decent point guard play unlocks the talents of Randle and RJ, who have both improved massively since last season. Thibs has also attributed the right roles to the role players, so the pieces fit. This team is more talented than we assumed, in addition to the fact that it's playing better than the sum of its parts.


Bingo. Rose has simply provided competent point guard play.
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Re: Knicks are 17-7 when Rose plays (58 win pace) 

Post#29 » by Scalabrine » Thu Apr 22, 2021 2:25 pm

Chanel Bomber wrote:
GSP wrote:3 losses @ Miami, @ Brooklyn and @ Boston were each by only 2pts too....

Hes been one of the biggest midseason acquisitions in the league. Great to see a former Mvp reinvent his game and still be a really good overall player that plays both ends even in a reduced role from his prime. Also overcame nasty false allegations from a bitter dusty ex which mustve taken a big toll on him off court

Hes been one of the premier players in the league coming off the bench for years now and now were seeing him still have that impact on a playoff team pushing them to even further heights

Rose has been excellent in his role.

But he's still an average or mediocre point guard big picture.

What this shows is how much Elfrid Payton is actually holding the Knicks back.

Decent point guard play unlocks the talents of Randle and RJ, who have both improved massively since last season. Thibs has also attributed the right roles to the role players, so the pieces fit. This team is more talented than we assumed, in addition to the fact that it's playing better than the sum of its parts.


If we had an average starting point guard in the FVV, Brogdon, Murray, even Lonzo Ball, this team everyone would be saying this team is legit. Payton is a good defensive guard, but offensively he does nothing, and often tries to do too much. We're a much better team when IQ/Rose are on the court.
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Re: Knicks are 17-7 when Rose plays (58 win pace) 

Post#30 » by ATRAIN53 » Thu Apr 22, 2021 2:35 pm

Interesting.

I'm hopeful his knees hold up and we get to see some vintage playoff D Rose

a Bulls V Knicks play-in game or playoff series would be insane.
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Re: Knicks are 17-7 when Rose plays (58 win pace) 

Post#31 » by Ritzo » Thu Apr 22, 2021 2:57 pm

I really thought that Rose career was finished when he joined LeBron in Cleveland. I'm glad he's doing great and didn't give up, same with Thibs who didn't give up on Rose
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Re: Knicks are 17-7 when Rose plays (58 win pace) 

Post#32 » by Drakeem » Thu Apr 22, 2021 3:03 pm

Considering the only reason Rose is elevating their play this much is bc every other option is simply below average, if the Pelicans really want to not sign Lonzo, I hope he goes to the Knicks. Makes a lot of sense for both sides, and New York would finally have a solid, young core.
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Re: Knicks are 17-7 when Rose plays (58 win pace) 

Post#33 » by Chanel Bomber » Thu Apr 22, 2021 3:47 pm

Scalabrine wrote:
Chanel Bomber wrote:
GSP wrote:3 losses @ Miami, @ Brooklyn and @ Boston were each by only 2pts too....

Hes been one of the biggest midseason acquisitions in the league. Great to see a former Mvp reinvent his game and still be a really good overall player that plays both ends even in a reduced role from his prime. Also overcame nasty false allegations from a bitter dusty ex which mustve taken a big toll on him off court

Hes been one of the premier players in the league coming off the bench for years now and now were seeing him still have that impact on a playoff team pushing them to even further heights

Rose has been excellent in his role.

But he's still an average or mediocre point guard big picture.

What this shows is how much Elfrid Payton is actually holding the Knicks back.

Decent point guard play unlocks the talents of Randle and RJ, who have both improved massively since last season. Thibs has also attributed the right roles to the role players, so the pieces fit. This team is more talented than we assumed, in addition to the fact that it's playing better than the sum of its parts.


If we had an average starting point guard in the FVV, Brogdon, Murray, even Lonzo Ball, this team everyone would be saying this team is legit. Payton is a good defensive guard, but offensively he does nothing, and often tries to do too much. We're a much better team when IQ/Rose are on the court.

Neither the stats nor the eye test show he's a good defender, although he does have stretches of nice defensive play. He generally lacks discipline and he just dies on every screen.
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Re: Knicks are 17-7 when Rose plays (58 win pace) 

Post#34 » by Scalabrine » Thu Apr 22, 2021 5:12 pm

Chanel Bomber wrote:
Scalabrine wrote:
Chanel Bomber wrote:Rose has been excellent in his role.

But he's still an average or mediocre point guard big picture.

What this shows is how much Elfrid Payton is actually holding the Knicks back.

Decent point guard play unlocks the talents of Randle and RJ, who have both improved massively since last season. Thibs has also attributed the right roles to the role players, so the pieces fit. This team is more talented than we assumed, in addition to the fact that it's playing better than the sum of its parts.


If we had an average starting point guard in the FVV, Brogdon, Murray, even Lonzo Ball, this team everyone would be saying this team is legit. Payton is a good defensive guard, but offensively he does nothing, and often tries to do too much. We're a much better team when IQ/Rose are on the court.

Neither the stats nor the eye test show he's a good defender, although he does have stretches of nice defensive play. He generally lacks discipline and he just dies on every screen.


I mean, yeah, I agree with that, I was just trying to throw him some sort of bone.

What stats are you using out of curiosity?
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Re: Knicks are 17-7 when Rose plays (58 win pace) 

Post#35 » by LouisLitt » Thu Apr 22, 2021 5:36 pm

Scalabrine wrote:
LouisLitt wrote:
Tor_Raps wrote:Why haven't the Knicks put him in the starting lineup over Payton?


If you actually watch the games, he's really not doing anything special.

It's Randle who's having a great month.


Multiple players are having great months.

Over the the month of April:
Rose 16/3/3 on 50/36/87 shooting splits
RJ 18/4/3 on 47/50/80 shooting splits.
Bullock 14/3/2 on 48/44/100 shooting splits


You're just adding to my point.

The person is asking why Rose isn't starting because the title of this thread makes it seem like he's the main reason they've been playing well as of late.
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Re: Knicks are 17-7 when Rose plays (58 win pace) 

Post#36 » by bstein14 » Thu Apr 22, 2021 5:38 pm

He is still really solid and was good for Detroit offensively. He's a liability on defense.

I was surprised that Detroit couldn't get a late first rounder for him. He might be the addition that wins them a playoff series this year.
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Re: Knicks are 17-7 when Rose plays (58 win pace) 

Post#37 » by SK21209 » Thu Apr 22, 2021 5:42 pm

Man, if it had been the Knicks rather than the Suns who traded for CP3 in the offseason, they could be having the season the Suns are having right now. I've had a lot of fun watching the Knicks in this stretch.
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Re: Knicks are 17-7 when Rose plays (58 win pace) 

Post#38 » by cool007 » Thu Apr 22, 2021 7:42 pm

I was saying it when the trade happened that bringing in Rose will let all knicks players know that they are trying to make the playoffs and also changed the whole attitude. Also having that playoff experience and knowing Thibs system is HUGE.

Just watch in the playoffs, Rose is going to be a HUGE problem for the other team and his leadership is very underrated. Just ask all of his former teammates and they would tell you how great of a leader Rose was.

I am definitely rooting for Rose and Knicks this year - even though not a Knicks fan. I simply love that team though.

I am so jealous that Bulls didn't bring Thibs back. I really don't like Billy Donovan as Bulls head coach - just no identity.
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Re: Knicks are 17-7 when Rose plays (58 win pace) 

Post#39 » by Edrees » Thu Apr 22, 2021 8:33 pm

Great to see that the injuries didn't ruin his career completely. Most players with that type of injury history are out of the league. He's really worked his butt off to be a solid starter/elite bench player type of player.
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Re: Knicks are 17-7 when Rose plays (58 win pace) 

Post#40 » by Scalabrine » Thu Apr 22, 2021 8:42 pm

LouisLitt wrote:
Scalabrine wrote:
LouisLitt wrote:
If you actually watch the games, he's really not doing anything special.

It's Randle who's having a great month.


Multiple players are having great months.

Over the the month of April:
Rose 16/3/3 on 50/36/87 shooting splits
RJ 18/4/3 on 47/50/80 shooting splits.
Bullock 14/3/2 on 48/44/100 shooting splits


You're just adding to my point.

The person is asking why Rose isn't starting because the title of this thread makes it seem like he's the main reason they've been playing well as of late.


I was commenting on you saying it was Randle who's having a great month, when it's actually been multiple players that have played above their season averages. Rose has been better than Payton and he has been closing most of our games. I think he's been great coming in with Quickley and Toppin. He gets them organized and looks for them more than Payton does and he gives the 2nd unit a consistent scoring threat that the first unit doesnt necessarily need off the bat when RJ and Randle are on the floor together. Thibs likes to play his units together, so this is especially important.
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