FVV or Klow? (Scenario FVV to Chicago)

missionman · Post #1 » by **missionman** » Fri Apr 30, 2021 8:25 pm

I'll accept all the flames for this post and if its been done before as I am not on this board that much, my apologies. I will also give credit to TD2FutureStar if you all think its a good idea, as I read his post with the idea (while I came to the board to see i anything waas out there in terms of trading FVV and re-signing Klow).

I've attached a poll to this as well to see where the board is on who we'd rather have.

Trade FVV and whatever to get Levine. Could be FVV +FRP or FVV+Trent or even FVV+Trent+FRP plus whatever on Chicago's side to make the money work.

I like FVV and am a huge fan of Lowry. But in the choice of letting Lowry go or running with Fred, I think I go with Lowry. Lowry's more of a PG and has worked PNR well with NBA centers. Fred might be a better defender right now, and I might trust FVV to make a big shot in clutch situations over Lowry, but FVV pounds the rock too much and is often the reason why he has to take a tough make. Overall, Lowry is the better fit particularly since size wise and atheltically they are similar, and Lowry has always been whatever we needed him to be, whereas FVV is really an undersized SG.

A trade to Chicago is perfect. Levine is just the sort of player the raptors need. Can create his own offence. Take the 3. Catch lobs from Lowry. And, as TD2FutureStar suggested, FVV is from Illinois so we aren't doing him dirty.

This works (better) if we feel good about Malachi, because longer term I'd take FVV's youth over Klow's age. But Flynn is looking pretty good lately.

Is FVV+GTJ+FRP too much for Levine? Would Chi even consider this?

Flame away...

Danny1616 · Post #2 » by **Danny1616** » Fri Apr 30, 2021 8:28 pm

No.

Kyle is my favorite player of all time and this doesn't make sense. Kyle is 35 and he'll be 36 next year. His defense has noticeably dipped this year and he doesn't seem to have the same burst/quickness as he did in previous years. He's only going to get worse from here on out. I'm sorry to say but Kyle just doesn't have it anymore like he used to. Even with our squad this year, in past years Kyle would have willed our team to a bunch of wins carrying the team on his back. He can't take over games like he used to.

Just think about this: Andre Igoudala is the oldest player in the NBA right now at 37. Kyle is one of the 15 oldest players in the league. It's extremely rare to sustain an elite level of play that age. The fact that Kyle is playing at the level he is at 35 is incredible, but it's very rare to do. In the league today only CP3 and Lebron have managed to keep playing at an all-star level past 35. Guys like Horford, Millsap, Dwight, Gasol, Igoudala (all 35-37) etc. are on the last stages of their career.

Fred just turned 27. When Kyle was 27 he was literally competing with Jose Calderon for the starting spot on our team. Give Fred a chance to run the team as a full time starter and see what he can do with more experience and not having to share duties with Kyle in a smurf backcourt.

Bruin · Post #3 » by **Bruin** » Fri Apr 30, 2021 8:30 pm

Way too much for Lavine. I wouldn’t include our pick in a deal unless it’s for a top 10 player

Most I’d do for Lavine is Fred, Boucher, and our two 2nds

DreamTeam09 · Post #4 » by **DreamTeam09** » Fri Apr 30, 2021 8:32 pm

If you could get FVV for Lavine it would've happened already and if it could happen in the future, yeah who wouldn't be game for that. If you're asking who i'd rather have going fwd between Lowry n FVV then yeah the answer is FVV for timeline sakes.

aligator · Post #5 » by **aligator** » Fri Apr 30, 2021 8:32 pm

Fred is staying. Kyle is walking. Raps will make good use of cap space. This is not even worth debating.

missionman · Post #6 » by **missionman** » Fri Apr 30, 2021 8:44 pm

aligator wrote:Fred is staying. Kyle is walking. Raps will make good use of cap space. This is not even worth debating.

For the record - I know this is never gonna happen.

98% of what we discuss here never happens. Its a forum.

Grew · Post #7 » by **Grew** » Fri Apr 30, 2021 8:57 pm

I really hope Fred is gonna surprise you guys when he is the solidified starting point guard. I don't see him as a 6'0 shooting guard, I see him thrust into that roll.

If we had Fred and another legit option at the 2, I think he would take a step back, stop forcing so much and become more of a distributor/true PG, that's what he was in college and I believe he can be that in the NBA.

JShuttlesworth · Post #8 » by **JShuttlesworth** » Fri Apr 30, 2021 8:59 pm

If I'm trading FVV to Chicago it's for Lauri.

dgr81 · Post #9 » by **dgr81** » Fri Apr 30, 2021 9:03 pm

how about letting both go?

Badonkadonk · Post #10 » by **Badonkadonk** » Fri Apr 30, 2021 9:06 pm

Offense is always overvalued, and Defense underrated. Not surprised so many have soured on FVV in the latter half of the season, though many of those same people were singing a different tune when the Raps went 14-7 near the all-star break with Fred running point and actually looking like a floor general (which is what he was in Wichita State btw).

https://www.theringer.com/nba/2021/2/26/22302611/fred-vanvleet-toronto-raptors-kyle-lowry-trade-deadline

Fred's too important for the defensive identity of the team to be traded as part of an overpay for Lavine, and Kyle will be gone one way or another soon, so thinning out the Raps primary ballhandlers at this time makes zero sense.

Preliudas · Post #11 » by **Preliudas** » Fri Apr 30, 2021 9:08 pm

I think we all know that Kyle will leave (hopefully in S&T) and FVV will stay. But sure, let's just have fun with poll

Johnny Bball · Post #12 » by **Johnny Bball** » Fri Apr 30, 2021 9:11 pm

JShuttlesworth wrote:If I'm trading FVV to Chicago it's for Lauri.

Gross.

Mikistan · Post #13 » by **Mikistan** » Fri Apr 30, 2021 9:20 pm

I think we all know Kyle is gone

FVV is too much of a culture guy to let go with kyle going sorry guys its just the truth of the moment

Ackshun · Post #14 » by **Ackshun** » Fri Apr 30, 2021 9:23 pm

FVV is a nice serviceable PG with an amazing 3 ball, but even that has come back down to earth a little. I don't think I'd lose sleep if we lost his play making or 19ppg, especially if it meant we were getting an offensive beast like Lavine. Maybe playing in our system, or with our guys will help his D? Anyhow, don't see Chicago doing this.

I'd trade FVV for a handful of attainable guys anyhow.

johanliebert · Post #15 » by **johanliebert** » Fri Apr 30, 2021 9:42 pm

Fvv isn’t getting you lavine

/end thread

KL78192020 · Post #16 » by **KL78192020** » Fri Apr 30, 2021 9:43 pm

Ackshun wrote:FVV is a nice serviceable PG with an amazing 3 ball, but even that has come back down to earth a little. I don't think I'd lose sleep if we lost his play making or 19ppg, especially if it meant we were getting an offensive beast like Lavine. Maybe playing in our system, or with our guys will help his D? Anyhow, don't see Chicago doing this.

I'd trade FVV for a handful of attainable guys anyhow.

Yea FVV is getting over-rated, his game hasn't really taken anymore steps forward, in fact his shooting has declined this year.

Hes good, but not great PG, FVV is a better trade asset and Lowry is still the better player at least for a couple of years, if the objective is to win the next two years then bring back Kyle and trade FVV. Flynn can replace him eventually.

The team will get much better value that way for FVV and Kyle.

ciueli · Post #17 » by **ciueli** » Fri Apr 30, 2021 9:46 pm

I hate to say it, but the real answer should be none of the above.

Kyle is starting to fall off, it's a miracle he's been as good as he has for as long as he has but the party is coming to an end as he enters his late 30s. History shows that when a player starts falling off due to age related decline, it can very fast, one year they are decent and the next they are unplayable. FYI, this season Kyle has the worst Defensive Rating and Defensive Box +/- he's ever posted in his career. Maybe it's just fallout from us playing 4 on 5 for most of the season, but what if it isn't?

Fred is not good enough to be the best guard on a team, he's 18th in the league among guards in VORP, has never been a good Win Shares guy (30th among guards in WS/48), isn't a high efficiency scorer (53.7% True Shooting this year, basically his career percentage) and his Net Rating has been up and down (+4 for his career, +1 this year).

The whole concept of trading Fred + our 1st (probably 8th or 9th pick in the draft) for Zach Lavine and keeping Kyle is a terrible idea. No money left to address the biggest hole at center, bad teams that trade away first rounders to make win now moves are always run by bad or desperate GMs.

Indeed · Post #18 » by **Indeed** » Fri Apr 30, 2021 9:55 pm

Where is the option re-sign Lowry (keeping VanVleet)?
Although he may ask for 25m, but if we can get him for 10m, that is a bargain to help this team grows.

Steelo Green · Post #19 » by **Steelo Green** » Fri Apr 30, 2021 9:58 pm

Kyle will be gone, we should try and trade Fred and rebuild but we will keep him and go no where.

Ackshun · Post #20 » by **Ackshun** » Fri Apr 30, 2021 10:01 pm

KL78192020 wrote:
Ackshun wrote:FVV is a nice serviceable PG with an amazing 3 ball, but even that has come back down to earth a little. I don't think I'd lose sleep if we lost his play making or 19ppg, especially if it meant we were getting an offensive beast like Lavine. Maybe playing in our system, or with our guys will help his D? Anyhow, don't see Chicago doing this.

I'd trade FVV for a handful of attainable guys anyhow.

Yea FVV is getting over-rated, his game hasn't really taken anymore steps forward, in fact his shooting has declined this year.

Hes good, but not great PG, FVV is a better trade asset and Lowry is still the better player at least for a couple of years, if the objective is to win the next two years then bring back Kyle and trade FVV. Flynn can replace him eventually.

The team will get much better value that way for FVV and Kyle.

Yeah this is my take as well. Lose Kyle for nothing, or take back scraps like Maxey... Or gauge the market for FVV. There are certainly teams out there that could use a steady hand at the pg spot.

By going this route, we don't have to renounce Kyle and still possibly sign some rotational talent. We can even take back less salary if it works out that way, still be active in the FA market and still hold Kyle's bird rights maybe? Not a cap expert so that's just me assuming.

I also have been really high on Flynn all year, which gives me the confidence to move on. I'm sure Flynn can put up 14-16ppg in a backup role.

The real question though is.. What does Kyle want? He clearly signed off on a move at the deadline if it fit his criteria. So... He has one leg out the door already. But I think we can pursaude him. Money talks