OT: Bears Talk - Justin Fields era begins

[WindyCityBorn]

This is just like the allegations of a conspiracy to frame OJ Simpson by the LA PD. But why would there be? And how do you pull off conspiracies like that without exposure over time?

Ryan Pace masterminded a whisper campaign against Justin Fields. Now we know why Fields looked mad after the draft. His new boss crashed his stock. This has only just begun

Talk that Ohio doesn’t develop QBs well, but I don’t think there system is any more simple than Clemson’s and it didn’t hurt Lawrence’s stock. Honestly I think there was some subtle black QB can’t read defense racism going on. JMO though.

That happened to Vanderbilt Jay Cutler as well, when caucasion Vince Young leaped over him in the draft.

Stop living in the past. NFL scouts can no longer afford to be racist against black QBs, kind of is bad for their job prospects.

Vince was the best QB in college football. What are talking about. And I still believe it may not be overt, but these black QBs like Watson, Mahommes and Fields keep sliding down one draft despite clearly being immense talents. I will absolutely shocked if that that guy from BYU has a better career than Fields.

[CobyWhite0]

I'm assuming "Ohio State doesn't develop QBs" is a thing because over the last 50 years, their most successful NFL QB was Mike Tomczak - and he was an undrafted FA.
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https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nfl/news/justin-fields-ohio-state-qbs-nfl-draft-history/hu5wl7fz7k8s17n9f3w5ioero

A total of 15 quarterbacks have been selected in the common draft era starting with Rex Kern in 1971. Terrelle Pryor was a NFL supplemental draft pick in 2011.

Six of those quarterbacks never took a snap in a regular-season game. Rex Kern, the quarterback of the 1968 national championship team, switched to defensive back.

Art Schlichter
Mike Tomczak
Tom Tupa
Kent Graham
Bobby Hoying
Joe Germaine
Craig Krenzel
Troy Smith
Terrelle Pryor
Cardale Jones

That's a pretty ugly list.

[fleet]

Talk that Ohio doesn’t develop QBs well, but I don’t think there system is any more simple than Clemson’s and it didn’t hurt Lawrence’s stock. Honestly I think there was some subtle black QB can’t read defense racism going on. JMO though.

That happened to Vanderbilt Jay Cutler as well, when caucasion Vince Young leaped over him in the draft.

Stop living in the past. NFL scouts can no longer afford to be racist against black QBs, kind of is bad for their job prospects.

Vince was the best QB in college football. What are talking about. And I still believe it may not be overt, but these black QBs like Watson, Mahommes and Fields keep sliding down one draft despite clearly being immense talents. I will absolutely shocked if that that guy from BYU has a better career than Fields.

Absolutely shocked? The community that is so positive on such things should be hired by the NFL pronto. It doesn't seem so obvious to me, but I'd hate to think racism is my issue. Personally, Zach Wilson was a late riser I thought. The popular perception for a long time was always Fields as number 2. Wilson's whiteness didn't win the day until the very end. My personal feeling is that if an error was made...Fields has been evaluated for so long that he got overscouted. That's a thing.

Heisman QBs are often 'best QBs in college football' but can't play in the NFL. That is not a scouting standard. Tools are evaluated, not just stats and hype. When black QBs slide its because racism? Was Kyler Murray discriminated against? Was it racist for Joe Burrow to go #1? This is a very convenient plug-in to use every time scouts make mistakes on a black player. Guys like Warren Moon and Randall Cunningham I thought started to kill off this perception, but in light of the demonstrable racism in the streets these days, everybody must be on edge. You're looking at some scouts (and entire FOs) letting race get in the way of their careers if you think this, not very likely. Pro sports can't indulge this QB myth anymore, and I don't believe it still does. Coaching bias maybe you'll have a point.

[CjayC]

Helmet scouting is played out, I don't think any of those former tOSU guys had Justin's talent or mental makeup. Haskins had arm talent, but he was more focused on becoming a brand than being a good Football player.

Fields' slide is pretty peculiar though. I can't really think of any reason why. He manages his epilepsy. Tiki Barber had it and he played pretty much a hall of fame career at RB, in a more punishing era. No knock on Wilson or Lance, but having Post traumatic Trubisky disorder I'm definitely weary about those 1-year wonder fast risers through the process(Although to Lance's credit North Dakota puts a lot of work on their QBs shoulders in terms of preparation). Also hyper-focusing on the more proven commodities weaknesses(Watson) rather than placing more emphasis on the whole body of work.

[nomorezorro]

Stop living in the past. NFL scouts can no longer afford to be racist against black QBs, kind of is bad for their job prospects.

if you think “improved workplace efficacy” is an effective motivator for completely eliminating racial bias, i got some bad news for you about how the world works

[nomorezorro]

sorry to engage in race-based discourse among people posting on a sports message board in 2021.

let’s get back to hearing from the rabid 49ers defender about his unwavering faith in kyle shanahan’s qb evaluation skills. i would personally like to further explore how giving a big contract to jimmy g was fine, because he was good enough to lose a super bowl to the superduperstar QB kyle shanahan passed on in 2017

[fleet]

Stop living in the past. NFL scouts can no longer afford to be racist against black QBs, kind of is bad for their job prospects.

if you think “improved workplace efficacy” is an effective motivator for completely eliminating racial bias, i got some bad news for you about how the world works

Sports is not the real world. There is a ridiculously finite supply of functional elite talent on a football field. A scout who has a mind that’s not right is employed by a team, and that scout keeps getting the wrong answer because of that, he’s not gonna be employed for long. Because the boss will take the heat for it directly. Winning and being right is all that matters up there. The way the NFL works is this. Once upon a time they had a racial issue which was comprehensive. Once the ice was broken on race in terms of the QB position, that got addressed relatively quickly compared to “The world”. Professional sports teams expect results (to borrow from Ghostbusters).

A franchise won’t let well documented petty issues disadvantage itself while competing for wins in such a cutthroat business, and will police that pretty ruthlessly out of self interest. If there is prevalent lingering bias, it has to do with pure pocket passers being more or less effective. An idea which is mostly disposed of completely in today’s game. A more mobile style of play is actually favored, which some black QBs have used. Bias won’t be completely eliminated, but it’s certainly being overplayed in this conversation.

[coldfish]

I'm an Ohio State guy. Fields' recent fall in standings was completely inexplicable. Its almost like there was a whisper campaign against him. I'm not going to project greatness but I would be pretty damned happy if I was a Bears fan. He is really a prototypical modern QB. He tries to win with his arm but he uses his legs to put him in a position to do so. He is a leader and a winner and is tough as nails.

He has made some questionable throws at times. Its not about him being stupid or not reading progressions. He is just too aggressive and will try to do too much. I saw Mahomes and Favre do similar things early in their careers.

This is just like the allegations of a conspiracy to frame OJ Simpson by the LA PD. But why would there be? And how do you pull off conspiracies like that without exposure over time?

Ryan Pace masterminded a whisper campaign against Justin Fields. Now we know why Fields looked mad after the draft. His new boss crashed his stock. This has only just begun

I have no idea what happened. It might have been something as simple as what happens in the NBA where the high profile prospect from Duke gets every flaw overanalyzed whereas the guy with great measurements and youtube highlights from southwest missouri state rockets up the boards.

And yes, professional NBA scouts with their jobs on the line do that. We have all seen it.

For the life of me, I have no idea why Wilson and Lance rocketed up the boards. I actually watched some game film (not just highlights) and it really wasn't super impressive. Fields can make all the throws and has done so against big pressure in big games. If you put him on BYU he would have put up stupid numbers. IMO he just got overanalyzed.

[GetBuLLish]

That's Bears fans feelings on Lance/the trade the 49ers made to trade for his very unpolished ass.

Wait, why are you being racist against Trey Lance?

[Jcool0]

Read on Twitter

[Susan]

That's Bears fans feelings on Lance/the trade the 49ers made to trade for his very unpolished ass.

Wait, why are you being racist against Trey Lance?

Calling a player who played one season of D2 football unpolished is not by any means racism and I'm going to venture to guess that you know that.

[nitetrain8603]

Read on Twitter

If nothing else, the Bears finally have a QB who can throw tight spirals.

[dougthonus]

Vince was the best QB in college football. What are talking about. And I still believe it may not be overt, but these black QBs like Watson, Mahommes and Fields keep sliding down one draft despite clearly being immense talents. I will absolutely shocked if that that guy from BYU has a better career than Fields.

While maybe it is true and there are a bunch of white scouts still slightly anchored to the idea that black QBs can't be successful, it seems equally true to that a bunch of people are still anchored to the idea that racism is a significant issue in draft status to me.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_starting_black_NFL_quarterbacks

Would I say race has no issue in the draft at QB? I'm not sure I'd go that far. It certainly was an issue at some point, and a big part of the issue was not so much at the NFL level (though I'm sure existed there too) but that the pipeline of talent never existed due to bias at earlier levels.

Would I say it has a significant impact on drafting today though? It's hard to make that case for me. There are tons of black QBs drafted in the 1st and many are great and many are busts just like white QBs. There aren't tons of black QBs drafted in later rounds that become successes (though tons that failed, again, just like white QBs).

[GetBuLLish]

That's Bears fans feelings on Lance/the trade the 49ers made to trade for his very unpolished ass.

Wait, why are you being racist against Trey Lance?

Calling a player who played one season of D2 football unpolished is not by any means racism and I'm going to venture to guess that you know that.

What I'm doing is using your "logic" against you. You will frequently take an action or opinion and interpret it in the absolute most negative way possible to manipulate some sort of racist intent into existence, while simultaneously ignoring all facts which point to a non-racist basis for the action or opinion.

You just called a black prospect an "unpolished ass." By your own standards, that is an opinion formed from racism. There can be no other explanation.
Leaving the post in for history on the warning, but there's no place for whatever personal agenda you have against another poster, this is just unprompted baiting/attacking or dredging up something from some other post long ago, this type of behavior has no place on the forum

[GetBuLLish]

Read on Twitter

I didn't think it was possible for me to be excited for this upcoming season. But I'm now the most excited I've been in years.

[dougthonus]

Read on Twitter

I didn't think it was possible for me to be excited for this upcoming season. But I'm now the most excited I've been in years.

I'm skeptical any rookie will come in and light it up in year one and be a huge difference maker, especially at QB, but I'm hopeful that the Bears may have just drafted the future best QB in franchise history.

[dice]

Stop living in the past. NFL scouts can no longer afford to be racist against black QBs, kind of is bad for their job prospects.

if you think “improved workplace efficacy” is an effective motivator for completely eliminating racial bias, i got some bad news for you about how the world works

true, but most hiring managers do not operate in the public eye w/ people potentially calling them racists for choosing the wrong guy

[dice]

Talk that Ohio doesn’t develop QBs well, but I don’t think there system is any more simple than Clemson’s and it didn’t hurt Lawrence’s stock. Honestly I think there was some subtle black QB can’t read defense racism going on. JMO though.

That happened to Vanderbilt Jay Cutler as well, when caucasion Vince Young leaped over him in the draft.

Stop living in the past. NFL scouts can no longer afford to be racist against black QBs, kind of is bad for their job prospects.

Vince was the best QB in college football. What are talking about. And I still believe it may not be overt, but these black QBs like Watson, Mahommes and Fields keep sliding down one draft despite clearly being immense talents. I will absolutely shocked if that that guy from BYU has a better career than Fields.

i'm sure that some people were saying the same thing about daniel jones and dwayne haskins. jones has been excellent as a pro, haskins a total train wreck

haskins at OSU: 70% completion, 54 TD, 9 INT, 174.0 rating, 3rd in heisman
jones at duke: 60% completion, 52 TD, 29 INT, 122.9 rating, didn't even get an honorable mention all-ACC as a senior

trubisky fits the racism narrative, jones doesn't

[Dresden]

What is the Bears excuse for sucking most of their existence?

You do know that the Bears have 3 more NFL championships than the 49'ers, right?

NFL championships...won with guys that fought in WWII?! How many Super Bowls wins and appearances do you have? You know the stat people actually care about?

You said that "they sucked for most of their existence". Just pointing out the incorrectness of that statement. And by your logic, I guess the Yankees shouldn't get credit for all the titles they won in the 20's with Ruth and Gehrig then either, right? After all, those were won with guys that fought in WW One even!

[Dresden]

Since we seem to be discussing racism and the QB situation, there is the whole Colin Kapernick saga that sheds light on this. There are many professional athletes, including many in the NFL, who strongly believe he was never picked up by another team due to his skin color, or because taking a chance on him would be interpreted as supporting BLM. I'm not saying they were correct or not, but that was the impression many people had- that racism played at least some part in his never getting another chance.