PG: Phew!!! That wasn’t funny, Javonte.

[mack2354]

That racism though fits with Gar and I have to assume his wife shares the same ideals. In all honesty I like the Finnish posters and hope they stick around after Lauri is gone. I can do without the endless debates over who is at fault for his lack of success. That being said there will still be plenty of Lauri discussion if he is wearing a new jersey next season. If he succeeds or fails there will still be talk. More than Dougie gets I would assume.

I can't stand them because they are player centered not team centered. I've really just been here too long and seen so many fans of the players and not the laundry it just grates on me. This will probably be my last post until the lottery. Lose all the rest of the games please.

What this forum has thought me over the years is that the mettle of "a true Bulls fan" is tested when facing adversity. And by that I mean that those who are the loudest to complain about others being wrong sorts of fans seem to be the quickest to proclaim how they have "lost interest" or "are disgusted with the team and do not mean to watch games anymore" et cetera. Every year these posts appear like a clockwork. Honestly, I think it is an odd way to be a fan of a team. But perhaps I am just I a player centered fan from abroad who cannot grasp the nuances of American sports fandom. Or whatever rubbish you guys think of next.

I'll admit my mettle is weak. I will be a Bulls fan for life. I'll never root for another team against the Bulls or on the same level as the Bulls. There will be teams I root for in different playoff series either because I like this teams player/s or despise the other teams player/s. I don't think that makes me less a Bulls fan.

On the other hand I can't just bear through "adversity" for this team. My wife gets on my nerves, toddler drives me nuts, and the baby crying is enough adversity in my home. Turning on the Bulls and watching them get down 15 points in the first quarter is a kick to the nuts when I was trying to get some joy/entertainment away from the stressors of life. I used to hate fair weather fans when I was younger and didn't have any real stress in my life but I understand now how "true Bulls fans" can give up on a team during sad times like this. I don't think I will be watching another game until Zach and Vuc get back. I just don't think my blood pressure can handle 2+ hours of this poor play on a regular basis.

[Pentele]

I can't stand them because they are player centered not team centered. I've really just been here too long and seen so many fans of the players and not the laundry it just grates on me. This will probably be my last post until the lottery. Lose all the rest of the games please.

What this forum has thought me over the years is that the mettle of "a true Bulls fan" is tested when facing adversity. And by that I mean that those who are the loudest to complain about others being wrong sorts of fans seem to be the quickest to proclaim how they have "lost interest" or "are disgusted with the team and do not mean to watch games anymore" et cetera. Every year these posts appear like a clockwork. Honestly, I think it is an odd way to be a fan of a team. But perhaps I am just I a player centered fan from abroad who cannot grasp the nuances of American sports fandom. Or whatever rubbish you guys think of next.

I'll admit my mettle is weak. I will be a Bulls fan for life. I'll never root for another team against the Bulls or on the same level as the Bulls. There will be teams I root for in different playoff series either because I like this teams player/s or despise the other teams player/s. I don't think that makes me less a Bulls fan.

On the other hand I can't just bear through "adversity" for this team. My wife gets on my nerves, toddler drives me nuts, and the baby crying is enough adversity in my home. Turning on the Bulls and watching them get down 15 points in the first quarter is a kick to the nuts when I was trying to get some joy/entertainment away from the stressors of life. I used to hate fair weather fans when I was younger and didn't have any real stress in my life but I understand now how "true Bulls fans" can give up on a team during sad times like this. I don't think I will be watching another game until Zach and Vuc get back. I just don't think my blood pressure can handle 2+ hours of this poor play on a regular basis.

As a father of a baby girl not yet a full year old, I certainly understand where you come from. I freely admit that I did not watch the last game for similar reasons.

My point was about people complaining about others of not being proper fans of the team while they themselves loudly declare how disinterested they are in that team. That takes some serious mental gymnastics (e.g., if the team is not a contender or about to be one, they are not worth my attention as a fan; all fans should be like me so that the team is "pressured" to be a contender) or a conviction in one's own superiority.

[Wingy]

I obviously agree with the sentiment given I called out the excuses, and I’m all for mocking the excuses...but def. agree. No need to mock folks communicating in a second language here. I like having the various international fans and opinions. No need to be an ass about it.

OK then, I'll be serious and just straight up say it. The subtle insinuations looking down on your, shall we say, more typical NBA player by some of his fans to use as excuses for Lauri has always really rubbed me the wrong way. But that's something I know a lot of people here would have a real problem acknowledging.

Never personally noticed. Then again, I probably only joined the party pooping on Lauri around page 70 of 120, slow to realize how divisive he had become. Then again I’d think I’d recognize insinuations if they were frequent since I’ve got plenty of SJW PC snowflake in me.

[sco]

That racism though fits with Gar and I have to assume his wife shares the same ideals. In all honesty I like the Finnish posters and hope they stick around after Lauri is gone. I can do without the endless debates over who is at fault for his lack of success. That being said there will still be plenty of Lauri discussion if he is wearing a new jersey next season. If he succeeds or fails there will still be talk. More than Dougie gets I would assume.

I can't stand them because they are player centered not team centered. I've really just been here too long and seen so many fans of the players and not the laundry it just grates on me. This will probably be my last post until the lottery. Lose all the rest of the games please.

Remember Chitown who left the board with Jamal Crawford?

Not to mention Jamal's sister!

[FanInTheAttic]

I obviously agree with the sentiment given I called out the excuses, and I’m all for mocking the excuses...but def. agree. No need to mock folks communicating in a second language here. I like having the various international fans and opinions. No need to be an ass about it.

OK then, I'll be serious and just straight up say it. The subtle insinuations looking down on your, shall we say, more typical NBA player by some of his fans to use as excuses for Lauri has always really rubbed me the wrong way. But that's something I know a lot of people here would have a real problem acknowledging.

Could you give an example of these subtle insinuations? I haven't noticed this and would be interesting to see what you mean.

[GoBlue72391]

I obviously agree with the sentiment given I called out the excuses, and I’m all for mocking the excuses...but def. agree. No need to mock folks communicating in a second language here. I like having the various international fans and opinions. No need to be an ass about it.

OK then, I'll be serious and just straight up say it. The subtle insinuations looking down on your, shall we say, more typical NBA player by some of his fans to use as excuses for Lauri has always really rubbed me the wrong way. But that's something I know a lot of people here would have a real problem acknowledging.

Could you give an example of these subtle insinuations? I haven't noticed this and would be interesting to see what you mean.

I think he's mainly referring to a single poster, Kukoc-Lauri, who I myself called out a couple of times for thinly veiled racism.

Things like "Coby looks like a reggae musician and he's not bright enough to grasp PG" and "Lauri is a well educated family man who is nervous next to teammates like Coby." I'm probably not quoting him perfectly, but either way it was utter nonsense. For the record, I haven't seen him around in a couple months.

There may have been other Lauri supporters who posted similar things, but the only one I saw was Kukoc-Lauri. Either way, to judge Finnish people/Lauri fans as a whole for the actions of a single individual, or at most a handful of individuals, and mock them by using fake broken English is just as equally absurd.

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[sami71]

OK then, I'll be serious and just straight up say it. The subtle insinuations looking down on your, shall we say, more typical NBA player by some of his fans to use as excuses for Lauri has always really rubbed me the wrong way. But that's something I know a lot of people here would have a real problem acknowledging.

Could you give an example of these subtle insinuations? I haven't noticed this and would be interesting to see what you mean.

I think he's mainly referring to a single poster, Kukoc-Lauri, who I myself called out a couple of times for thinly veiled racism.

Things like "Coby looks like a reggae musician and he's not bright enough to grasp PG" and "Lauri is a well educated family man who is nervous next to teammates like Coby." I'm probably not quoting him perfectly, but either way it was utter nonsense. For the record, I haven't seen him around in a couple months.

There may have been other Lauri supporters who posted similar things, but the only one I saw was Kukoc-Lauri. Either way, to judge Finnish people/Lauri fans as a whole for the actions of a single individual, or at most a handful of individuals, and mock them by using fake broken English is just as equally absurd.

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I don't think he is Finnish though. Never in my life have I met a Finn born after 1950's who's English is quite that broken

But frankly I think Leslie Foreman has a point. The posts were in my opinion more than borderline racist. On the other hand I don't think there have been any others. There are always things lost in translation too, of course. Or maybe I can be seen as a racist because I have been calling for Lauri to be more like his team mates and that has ruffled some feathers as well. None of that was intentional, it just occured to me that maybe I did. My apologies. The whole race issue is very different here due to history being so different. I remember a Finn once being suspended in the AHL after a fight for calling his Swedish opponent, who happened to be a person of colour, a "boy". I am pretty sure neither of them had the slightest idea of the racism in the situation.

[RSP83]

Haven't been stopping by here over the last 2 weeks I think.

To me this season feels worse than any post-Thibs season. Hoiball and Boylen seasons were really bad, but I never had high expectation with them. This year BD and Zach got me high, and then AK and the Vuc trade, probably the highest I've ever been with this team post-Thibs. And then to suddenly free falling almost like there's no trace of the optimism that made me high at the beginning of the season. zero.

I really try to stay away from Bulls news these days. I just check on Rose and the Knicks when I have the time.

[Leslie Forman]

I obviously agree with the sentiment given I called out the excuses, and I’m all for mocking the excuses...but def. agree. No need to mock folks communicating in a second language here. I like having the various international fans and opinions. No need to be an ass about it.

OK then, I'll be serious and just straight up say it. The subtle insinuations looking down on your, shall we say, more typical NBA player by some of his fans to use as excuses for Lauri has always really rubbed me the wrong way. But that's something I know a lot of people here would have a real problem acknowledging.

Could you give an example of these subtle insinuations? I haven't noticed this and would be interesting to see what you mean.

There's been like a million pages about Lauri here over the years so I am not about to search for examples, and there is a lot less of it these days since the general consensus is finally that yeah, maybe this guy isn't actually good, but over the years there would regularly be some people blaming Lauri's ineffectiveness on guys like Zach, Coby, Dunn, etc., calling them dumb, poor IQ players but then calling Lauri a smart player, when anybody with any basketball sense could tell Lauri's basketball IQ is absolutely awful.

When Bobby Portis was still here too, the way he was talked about compared to Lauri even though he wasn't really any worse a player than him was, shall we say…different.

I don't care what people say, I have little doubt in my mind that if Lauri was named DeShaun and was from Detroit, he would not have been talked about quite the same way he has been during his time here.

[Swuul]

I don't think he is Finnish though. Never in my life have I met a Finn born after 1950's who's English is quite that broken

I think Lauri-Kukoc mentioned he is from Balkans, so definitively not a Finn.

[Red8911]

OK then, I'll be serious and just straight up say it. The subtle insinuations looking down on your, shall we say, more typical NBA player by some of his fans to use as excuses for Lauri has always really rubbed me the wrong way. But that's something I know a lot of people here would have a real problem acknowledging.

Could you give an example of these subtle insinuations? I haven't noticed this and would be interesting to see what you mean.

There's been like a million pages about Lauri here over the years so I am not about to search for examples, and there is a lot less of it these days since the general consensus is finally that yeah, maybe this guy isn't actually good, but over the years there would regularly be some people blaming Lauri's ineffectiveness on guys like Zach, Coby, Dunn, etc., calling them dumb, poor IQ players but then calling Lauri a smart player, when anybody with any basketball sense could tell Lauri's basketball IQ is absolutely awful.

When Bobby Portis was still here too, the way he was talked about compared to Lauri even though he wasn't really any worse a player than him was, shall we say…different.

I don't care what people say, I have little doubt in my mind that if Lauri was named DeShaun and was from Detroit, he would not have been talked about quite the same way he has been during his time here.

Everyone had hope in Lauri because when he came into the league he had shown that he can play and had potential. During his rookie year don’t you agree that he was very good and gave us all hope for the future? During his second season too he had an awesome second half of the season. We all had that in mind even though he struggled later on, we knew what he is capable of.

From last year though it was clear to me that there’s no hope for Lauri but wanted to see how he performed with a new coach or system. Obviously nothing changed. Again can’t blame people for believing in him, the talent is there but the effort and IQ isn’t. Who knows maybe he’ll be better on another team.Also the Deshaun comment is simply not true and you know that. Why would anyone talk about Portis? He was solid but he never had the potential to be anything more than what he is now a role player.

[FranchisePlayer]

When the product is bad and posters are fed up, the result is this: a short, malign PG. What a terrible read from head to toe.

[FanInTheAttic]

OK then, I'll be serious and just straight up say it. The subtle insinuations looking down on your, shall we say, more typical NBA player by some of his fans to use as excuses for Lauri has always really rubbed me the wrong way. But that's something I know a lot of people here would have a real problem acknowledging.

Could you give an example of these subtle insinuations? I haven't noticed this and would be interesting to see what you mean.

There's been like a million pages about Lauri here over the years so I am not about to search for examples, and there is a lot less of it these days since the general consensus is finally that yeah, maybe this guy isn't actually good, but over the years there would regularly be some people blaming Lauri's ineffectiveness on guys like Zach, Coby, Dunn, etc., calling them dumb, poor IQ players but then calling Lauri a smart player, when anybody with any basketball sense could tell Lauri's basketball IQ is absolutely awful.

When Bobby Portis was still here too, the way he was talked about compared to Lauri even though he wasn't really any worse a player than him was, shall we say…different.

I don't care what people say, I have little doubt in my mind that if Lauri was named DeShaun and was from Detroit, he would not have been talked about quite the same way he has been during his time here.

Ok, I have been reading this board only for a few months and don't know much about what has been written before, but someone already gave me an example of the aforementioned type of posting, didn't sound appropriate at all. Don't know how popular it has been here over the years, but based on my recent readings, there are more people here trying to explain their well-considered speculations about why Lauri hasn't met his expectations as a player in the Chicago Bulls. I have personally enjoyed reading those, and well-considered basketball speculation in general about any player or subject matter.On the other hand I have also read rather dull comments about Lauri being soft, having low basketball IQ , or just "beta" without any basis. One poster was also very convinced that Lauri is just not interested in basketball anymore because he has kids, or actually because he thinks it's (maybe) important to be around for your kids. That just sounds completely senseless, and something that the poster can't really have any actual knowledge of. I would much rather read well-considered arguments why Lauri is not a good player, and why he never will be one. Luckily there are posters who do that also, and maybe there was even more in the past.