NBA MVP Discussion '20-'21, Part 2 (Poll created 21 March '21)

Sharkboy242 · Post #1841 » by **Sharkboy242** » Fri May 14, 2021 8:32 pm

Nuthin But Net wrote:Sounds like Jokic is the only player you are allowed to vote for at RealGM lol.

You're entitled to have sh***ty opinions. You're entitled to voice your sh***ty opinions. Just don't act too surprised when you're called out on it.

Nuthin But Net · Post #1842 » by **Nuthin But Net** » Fri May 14, 2021 8:37 pm

Sharkboy242 wrote:
Nuthin But Net wrote:Sounds like Jokic is the only player you are allowed to vote for at RealGM lol.

You're entitled to have sh***ty opinions. You're entitled to voice your sh***ty opinions. Just don't act too surprised when you're called out on it.

Voting for anyone but Jokic is a sh***ty opinion :lol:

ecogen · Post #1843 » by **ecogen** » Fri May 14, 2021 9:01 pm

Nuthin But Net wrote:
Sharkboy242 wrote:
Nuthin But Net wrote:Sounds like Jokic is the only player you are allowed to vote for at RealGM lol.

You're entitled to have sh***ty opinions. You're entitled to voice your sh***ty opinions. Just don't act too surprised when you're called out on it.

Voting for anyone but Jokic is a sh***ty opinion

You're getting there.

Sharkboy242 · Post #1844 » by **Sharkboy242** » Fri May 14, 2021 9:24 pm

Nuthin But Net wrote:
Sharkboy242 wrote:
Nuthin But Net wrote:Sounds like Jokic is the only player you are allowed to vote for at RealGM lol.

You're entitled to have sh***ty opinions. You're entitled to voice your sh***ty opinions. Just don't act too surprised when you're called out on it.

Voting for anyone but Jokic is a sh***ty opinion

Analytically/mathematically speaking, yes. Of course not everyone values those things, which is why not everyone's vote counts in the MVP race.

The smart voter probably takes into account all of the following

-Raw stats (PER)
-Analytics (advanced metrics)
-Winning %
-Narrative

Jokic is the only candidate that has it going on all 4 fronts. Embiid is close but he lacks the narrative due to missing so many games.

cpower · Post #1845 » by **cpower** » Fri May 14, 2021 9:50 pm

my final ranking:
1. Jokic (good record with less help from last year)
2. Curry (best player in the league, improved 20+ wins)
3. Gobert (best player on best team)
4. Embiid (if he plays 20 more games he would be my top pick)
5. CP3 (best player on 2nd best team)

overall not a very strong year, another time where MVP not coming from top 5 teams in the league

RB34 · Post #1846 » by **RB34** » Sat May 15, 2021 3:02 am

20/15/11 with 1 TO in 26 mins for the MVP.

Infinite Llamas · Post #1847 » by **Infinite Llamas** » Sat May 15, 2021 3:24 am

I like Jokic has “haters” now. Just means he finally made it fam

eathb_au · Post #1848 » by **eathb_au** » Sat May 15, 2021 3:31 am

Nikola Jokic
Excellent stats✅
Good team record✅
Carrying a team of roleplayers and no other stars✅
Plus defender✅
No games missed ✅
MVP ✅

BelgradeNugget · Post #1849 » by **BelgradeNugget** » Sat May 15, 2021 9:56 am

cpower wrote:my final ranking:
1. Jokic (good record with less help from last year)
2. Curry (best player in the league, improved 20+ wins)
3. Gobert (best player on best team)
4. Embiid (if he plays 20 more games he would be my top pick)
5. CP3 (best player on 2nd best team)

overall not a very strong year, another time where MVP not coming from top 5 teams in the league

Actually Denver is 4th in the NBA by record right now
https://www.espn.com/nba/standings/_/group/league

Infinite Llamas · Post #1850 » by **Infinite Llamas** » Sat May 15, 2021 1:20 pm

Jokic winning games with Denver giving major minutes to Cancar, Markus Howard, Austin Rivers, Shaq Harrison...it’s like Denver is trying to prove that Jokic can win games with virtually any cast of players that they give him. And Cancar blew a couple easy assists for Jokic last night. Granted the teams facing them these past couple of games aren’t world beaters, but it’s still remarkable his production hasn’t changed even though the team has been decimated with injuries. He’s been the only constant for the team. People need to cool it with the record nonsense because Denver is a top 4 team in the league.

FinnTheHuman · Post #1851 » by **FinnTheHuman** » Sat May 15, 2021 1:28 pm

cpower wrote:my final ranking:
1. Jokic (good record with less help from last year)
2. Curry (best player in the league, improved 20+ wins)
3. Gobert (best player on best team)
4. Embiid (if he plays 20 more games he would be my top pick)
5. CP3 (best player on 2nd best team)

overall not a very strong year, another time where MVP not coming from top 5 teams in the league

Pretty cringe that you can't do basic math. Nuggets might end up with 3rd best record in the league if they win tomorrow night and Philly loses.

Mick Dundee · Post #1852 » by **Mick Dundee** » Sat May 15, 2021 1:41 pm

Nuthin But Net wrote:Sounds like Jokic is the only player you are allowed to vote for at RealGM lol.

I like you.

I really do!

Often enough have I stood alone against many in other Sports Forums. So I know.

But I do think you are confusing us with Tim Bontemps here.

The Guy is ready to go to War with anyone not willing to vote for Jokic :lol:

On the other Hand ...

The Arguments for Jokic winning the MVP are so overwhelming, that any Attempt to argue otherwise can easily appear as trolling.

You are right, though.

Jokic has not been voted the MPV, yet.

And who knows, what the following days might bring ...

Riko · Post #1853 » by **Riko** » Sat May 15, 2021 2:20 pm

cpower wrote:overall not a very strong year, another time where MVP not coming from top 5 teams in the league

I don't get why is "not a very strong year", I get he is not have the strong narrative behind him but Jokic, in a shorter an compressed season, produce one of the best stat line in nba history. Yes, denver won't win 70 games but they are 4w away from the best record, in a normal season is a 58-60w pace (yeah I know that is not the actual % but usually the middle tier team wuoldn't have won so many games).

cpower · Post #1854 » by **cpower** » Sat May 15, 2021 4:23 pm

Riko wrote:
cpower wrote:overall not a very strong year, another time where MVP not coming from top 5 teams in the league

I don't get why is "not a very strong year", I get he is not have the strong narrative behind him but Jokic, in a shorter an compressed season, produce one of the best stat line in nba history. Yes, denver won't win 70 games but they are 4w away from the best record, in a normal season is a 58-60w pace (yeah I know that is not the actual % but usually the middle tier team wuoldn't have won so many games).

16 Curry Winning %: 89%
07 Dirk Winning% : 82%
13 Lebron Winning: 80%
18 Harden Winning%: 79%
20 Giannis Winning %: 77%
14 KD Winning: 72%
...
21 Jokic Wining: 66%

its not a knock on Jokic but he is having one of the weakest MVP years due to injuries and weaker team defense.. if Lakers and Warriors are fully healthy I dont think Jokic will have a case over Lebron or Curry.

Riko · Post #1855 » by **Riko** » Sat May 15, 2021 5:05 pm

cpower wrote:
Riko wrote:
cpower wrote:overall not a very strong year, another time where MVP not coming from top 5 teams in the league

I don't get why is "not a very strong year", I get he is not have the strong narrative behind him but Jokic, in a shorter an compressed season, produce one of the best stat line in nba history. Yes, denver won't win 70 games but they are 4w away from the best record, in a normal season is a 58-60w pace (yeah I know that is not the actual % but usually the middle tier team wuoldn't have won so many games).

16 Curry Winning %: 89%
07 Dirk Winning% : 82%
13 Lebron Winning: 80%
18 Harden Winning%: 79%
20 Giannis Winning %: 77%
14 KD Winning: 72%
...
21 Jokic Wining: 66%

its not a knock on Jokic but he is having one of the weakest MVP years due to injuries and weaker team defense.. if Lakers and Warriors are fully healthy I dont think Jokic will have a case over Lebron or Curry.

16 Curry Winning %: 89% (best team w% 89%, 2nd 82%)
07 Dirk Winning% : 82% (best team w% 82%, 2nd 74%)
13 Lebron Winning: 80% (best team w% 80%, 2nd 73%)
18 Harden Winning%: 79% (best team w% 79%, 2nd 72%)
20 Giannis Winning %: 77% (best team w% 77%, 2nd 74%)
14 KD Winning: 72% (best team w% 76%, 2nd 72%)
...
21 Jokic Wining: 66% (best team w% 72%, 2nd 70%)

It is a shorter and tougher season, just the fact that he played every games put him in a super short list, and like I said that reflect in winning % of every team (plus the play-in tournament teams that play waay harder than usual)
And I don't even want to talk about healty squad because denver surely was not the example of health... it is like everyone assume it is normal have a full healty squad in a 6 months 72 games season.

dygaction · Post #1856 » by **dygaction** » Sat May 15, 2021 9:09 pm

cpower wrote:
Riko wrote:
cpower wrote:overall not a very strong year, another time where MVP not coming from top 5 teams in the league

I don't get why is "not a very strong year", I get he is not have the strong narrative behind him but Jokic, in a shorter an compressed season, produce one of the best stat line in nba history. Yes, denver won't win 70 games but they are 4w away from the best record, in a normal season is a 58-60w pace (yeah I know that is not the actual % but usually the middle tier team wuoldn't have won so many games).

16 Curry Winning %: 89%
07 Dirk Winning% : 82%
13 Lebron Winning: 80%
18 Harden Winning%: 79%
20 Giannis Winning %: 77%
14 KD Winning: 72%
...
21 Jokic Wining: 66%

its not a knock on Jokic but he is having one of the weakest MVP years due to injuries and weaker team defense.. if Lakers and Warriors are fully healthy I dont think Jokic will have a case over Lebron or Curry.

If Nuggets were healthy, heck, if Denver's owner ($128M) can afford to have a payroll like Warriors ($169M), they can sign another super max and some... LeBron with AD, Embiid without Simmons, Curry without Klay are far from as good/effective as Jokic without Murray 16w-6l. They are also the smallest market team with lowest payroll among the four.

eathb_au · Post #1857 » by **eathb_au** » Sun May 16, 2021 4:32 am

Yeah you can't really use the Jokic has a good team argument, it's basically MPJ, roleplayers and end of bench players in the rotation.

It's arguably worse than what Curry has right now despite everyone clamouring on about how Curry is carrying a **** team.

nomansland · Post #1858 » by **nomansland** » Sun May 16, 2021 7:19 am

Riko wrote:
cpower wrote:overall not a very strong year, another time where MVP not coming from top 5 teams in the league

I don't get why is "not a very strong year", I get he is not have the strong narrative behind him but Jokic, in a shorter an compressed season, produce one of the best stat line in nba history. Yes, denver won't win 70 games but they are 4w away from the best record, in a normal season is a 58-60w pace (yeah I know that is not the actual % but usually the middle tier team wuoldn't have won so many games).

https://www.espn.com/nba/standings/_/group/league

Ignoring the ridiculous "top 5" distinction, they're right there with the best teams in the league.

Unlike the Warriors.

BelgradeNugget · Post #1859 » by **BelgradeNugget** » Sun May 16, 2021 10:12 am

cpower wrote:
Riko wrote:
cpower wrote:overall not a very strong year, another time where MVP not coming from top 5 teams in the league

I don't get why is "not a very strong year", I get he is not have the strong narrative behind him but Jokic, in a shorter an compressed season, produce one of the best stat line in nba history. Yes, denver won't win 70 games but they are 4w away from the best record, in a normal season is a 58-60w pace (yeah I know that is not the actual % but usually the middle tier team wuoldn't have won so many games).

16 Curry Winning %: 89%
07 Dirk Winning% : 82%
13 Lebron Winning: 80%
18 Harden Winning%: 79%
20 Giannis Winning %: 77%
14 KD Winning: 72%
...
21 Jokic Wining: 66%

its not a knock on Jokic but he is having one of the weakest MVP years due to injuries and weaker team defense.. if Lakers and Warriors are fully healthy I dont think Jokic will have a case over Lebron or Curry.

It all depends how you look at it

16 Curry Winning %: 89% - Teammates - 2 all-stars, 2 all-nba team, 1 all-nba defensive team
07 Dirk Winning% : 82% - Teammates - 1 all-stars
13 Lebron Winning: 80% - Teammates - 2 all-stars, 1 all-nba team
18 Harden Winning%: 79% - Teammates - 0
20 Giannis Winning %: 77% - Teammates - 1 all-stars, 2 all-nba defensive team
14 KD Winning: 72% - Teammates - 1 all-nba defensive team
...
21 Jokic Wining: 66% - Teammates - 0

Closest to all-star teammate Jokic had this year is Murray, but 7 western guards were selected in front of him. And he is injured as we know. From this perspective Jokic's MVP year is among the best with Harden, Dirk and KD.

About Curry's case he has had as much help from teammates as Jokic this year and his Winning % is 54%. The fact is Curry has to have somebody to do all the others things for him so he can focus on scoring. Jokic can do everything and win with Rivers, Harrison, Howard, Cancar...

cpower · Post #1860 » by **cpower** » Sun May 16, 2021 4:08 pm

eathb_au wrote:Yeah you can't really use the Jokic has a good team argument, it's basically MPJ, roleplayers and end of bench players in the rotation.

It's arguably worse than what Curry has right now despite everyone clamouring on about how Curry is carrying a **** team.

MPJ, Gordon, roleplayers and end of bench players >>> Wiggins , roleplayers and dleaguers. If you have a min look at the advance stats the picture will be clear for you. The warriors without Curry is on pace for a 12% winning season.

Who be's the MVPs?