Miami Heat Regular Season/Speculation Thread 2021 Part 3

[MettaWorldPanda]

We have a FRP in 2022 and 2024. So no, we had future picks to trade.


Riley simply said no.


Riles turned down James Harden, for Herro, Robinson, Nunn, Achiuwa, 2 FRP's, and 4 swaps.


FML

Those picks were locked up because you can’t trade picks in b2b years.

You're telling me we couldn't go to the Rockets and say,

"Okay, we have a deal on everything, we just have one problem. We want to agree to this deal right now, but the Stepien rule is blocking us, about the FRP's. What else can we give you?"

Or find a 3rd team and make something happen there. Riley used to be a master at blockbuster 5 team trades and such.

They liked the Rockets deal. It is what it is

[Grumpy Heat Fan]

Those picks were locked up because you can’t trade picks in b2b years.

You're telling me we couldn't go to the Rockets and say,

"Okay, we have a deal on everything, we just have one problem. We want to agree to this deal right now, but the Stepien rule is blocking us, about the FRP's. What else can we give you?"

Or find a 3rd team and make something happen there. Riley used to be a master at blockbuster 5 team trades and such.

They liked the Rockets deal. It is what it is

Reports say our negotiations died in December, as Harden was fully expecting to be traded to Miami, but then the talks died when Riles didn't like the deals.

Brooklyn didn't enter the picture until January......

[Hallstar]

I’m not sure Riley is going to let him walk without getting any assets ...

Two words: Tyler Johnson

Two more words: Ryan Anderson

We're still (literally) paying for matching that offer sheet.

"Pride goeth before Tyler Johnson, and an haughty spirit before a Ryan Anderson." -- Proverbs 16:18

"When pride comes, then comes Tyler Johnson, but with the humble is wisdom to avoid Ryan Anderson." -- Proverbs 11:2


I try to keep religion out of basketball discussions, but ... it's right there in the Bible. It's the very first "Thou shalt not ...". Thou shalt not match an offer sheet just to avoid losing a player for nothing because plagues follow.

lol, I don't have to post when you're on

[contract]

I figure the only way we get Lowry is via S&T since it would make no sense to use all our cap space on him. I really do think Lowry does want to come here and play with Butler.

Lowry is 35. You can't preserve guys in vinegar. His level of play will decline day by day and year by year from where it is now. He would have been fine as a desperation move at the deadline, but we need to focus on bigger fish now. This team doesn't need improvement along the edges, it needs an overhaul. We need more talent, and that talent has to be able to hold up through the rest of Jimmy's prime. Pissing away significant cap space on a guy who is only going to get worse would be a mistake.

We need someone like Dame, not another guy looking for a place in The Villages.

Issue is we are working with a narrow window and Lowry can and will help next year and especially if you can put him in tandem with someone like Dinwiddie. A sign and trade opportunity could materialize for the Raptors with us if we ship out the team opt in’s of Dragic, Iguodala, and a young asset like Okpala. Seems like a worthwhile dice roll if that’s the price and keeps Jimmy happy. Team will have to get creative with what we have in order to make additions. Aside from what we have in cap space.

We can't do it. Even if Lowry helps next season, would he help the year after that at 36? He's going to want to get paid and that's just a bad idea. Jimmy's window is pretty narrow, but Lowry's is almost shut. Forget the assets going out, not real problem is the salary commitment.

[contract]

Those picks were locked up because you can’t trade picks in b2b years.

You're telling me we couldn't go to the Rockets and say,

"Okay, we have a deal on everything, we just have one problem. We want to agree to this deal right now, but the Stepien rule is blocking us, about the FRP's. What else can we give you?"

Or find a 3rd team and make something happen there. Riley used to be a master at blockbuster 5 team trades and such.

They liked the Rockets deal. It is what it is

Yeah, I don't think we had a shot at Harden. I think Harden chose where he wanted to get traded.

[Grumpy Heat Fan]

You're telling me we couldn't go to the Rockets and say,

"Okay, we have a deal on everything, we just have one problem. We want to agree to this deal right now, but the Stepien rule is blocking us, about the FRP's. What else can we give you?"

Or find a 3rd team and make something happen there. Riley used to be a master at blockbuster 5 team trades and such.

They liked the Rockets deal. It is what it is

Yeah, I don't think we had a shot at Harden. I think Harden chose where he wanted to get traded.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2934230-the-2-month-trade-request-how-james-harden-forced-his-way-out-of-houston?fbclid=IwAR03kSOXDeGMPrMVPjDqDslKXdFtDW6A6uQAbF5bzqvOEw-0VR-HEasx6BU

Bleacherreport has a full article on the subject... Harden's 1st pick was Brooklyn, and his 2nd pick was Miami, and he was fine going to Miami. At one point in December, he thought he was coming here until apparently Riles pulled out of trade talks and the talks died.

[NBADraft2003]

You're telling me we couldn't go to the Rockets and say,

"Okay, we have a deal on everything, we just have one problem. We want to agree to this deal right now, but the Stepien rule is blocking us, about the FRP's. What else can we give you?"

Or find a 3rd team and make something happen there. Riley used to be a master at blockbuster 5 team trades and such.

They liked the Rockets deal. It is what it is

Reports say our negotiations died in December, as Harden was fully expecting to be traded to Miami, but then the talks died when Riles didn't like the deals.

Brooklyn didn't enter the picture until January......

Pretty sure in that some article, it talks about KD and James discussing teaming up way before January. Brooklyn was always in that discussion, we didn’t have the amount of picks that the Nets had to make a deal. That’s all that mattered to Rafael Stone and Tilman Fertitta.

[AirP.]

They liked the Rockets deal. It is what it is

Reports say our negotiations died in December, as Harden was fully expecting to be traded to Miami, but then the talks died when Riles didn't like the deals.

Brooklyn didn't enter the picture until January......

Pretty sure in that some article, it talks about KD and James discussing teaming up way before January. Brooklyn was always in that discussion, we didn’t have the amount of picks that the Nets had to make a deal. That’s all that mattered to Rafael Stone and Tilman Fertitta.

At that time Miami or even Houston could have traded some if not all Herro, Robinson, Precious and KZ to find first round picks. Brooklyn traded J.Allen to Cleveland to get a 1st. At the time Herro was probably worth a higher lottery pick which is way more valuable then multiple mid to late 1st round picks. Try to get a top 10 pick for 2 1st round picks out of the lottery, it's not happening.

I completely believe Miami could have made trades to get the assets Houston wanted for Harden at the time, it just would have taken possibly everyone not named Butler, Bam, Dragic, Bradley, Harkless and the 2 way players.

I'm sorry, but if you have a chance to get a top tier player who can give you 3+ great years you do it, if it didn't work you could replenish your assets by moving both Harden and Butler and going full rebuild around Bam.

[DayofMourning]

I’m not sure Riley is going to let him walk without getting any assets ...

Two words: Tyler Johnson

Two more words: Ryan Anderson

We're still (literally) paying for matching that offer sheet.

"Pride goeth before Tyler Johnson, and an haughty spirit before a Ryan Anderson." -- Proverbs 16:18

"When pride comes, then comes Tyler Johnson, but with the humble is wisdom to avoid Ryan Anderson." -- Proverbs 11:2


I try to keep religion out of basketball discussions, but ... it's right there in the Bible. It's the very first "Thou shalt not ...". Thou shalt not match an offer sheet just to avoid losing a player for nothing because plagues follow.

This is gold. Lol.

[contract]

At that time Miami or even Houston could have traded some if not all Herro, Robinson, Precious and KZ to find first round picks. Brooklyn traded J.Allen to Cleveland to get a 1st. At the time Herro was probably worth a higher lottery pick which is way more valuable then multiple mid to late 1st round picks. Try to get a top 10 pick for 2 1st round picks out of the lottery, it's not happening.

I completely believe Miami could have made trades to get the assets Houston wanted for Harden at the time, it just would have taken possibly everyone not named Butler, Bam, Dragic, Bradley, Harkless and the 2 way players.

I'm sorry, but if you have a chance to get a top tier player who can give you 3+ great years you do it, if it didn't work you could replenish your assets by moving both Harden and Butler and going full rebuild around Bam.

Everything else aside, KZ does not have 1st round value. I'm not sure he has any value at all.

[AirP.]

At that time Miami or even Houston could have traded some if not all Herro, Robinson, Precious and KZ to find first round picks. Brooklyn traded J.Allen to Cleveland to get a 1st. At the time Herro was probably worth a higher lottery pick which is way more valuable then multiple mid to late 1st round picks. Try to get a top 10 pick for 2 1st round picks out of the lottery, it's not happening.

I completely believe Miami could have made trades to get the assets Houston wanted for Harden at the time, it just would have taken possibly everyone not named Butler, Bam, Dragic, Bradley, Harkless and the 2 way players.

I'm sorry, but if you have a chance to get a top tier player who can give you 3+ great years you do it, if it didn't work you could replenish your assets by moving both Harden and Butler and going full rebuild around Bam.

Everything else aside, KZ does not have 1st round value. I'm not sure he has any value at all.

I didn't say KZ would net a 1st round pick by himself, he could part of a trade for a 1st. For instance, maybe a team would be on the fence on 2 1sts for say Robinson(depending on how good the 1st may be), you might be able to toss KZ in there to get that done, same with Precious, tossing KZ in there may get you a 1st pick. It's was also quite possible to move KZ to OKC to unlock a Miami pick by removing the stipulation on the 2023 pick.

[SDC]

I'd re-sign Olynyk, AND Whiteside as his backup.

Lock DRob up, and sign dragic to a 2- yr deal (Miami doesn't have a PG.)

Let Nunn go, and sign JRich and JJ to reasonable deals.

(James Johnson would have done a much better job defending Giannis if Miami goes small.)

[NBADraft2003]

Reports say our negotiations died in December, as Harden was fully expecting to be traded to Miami, but then the talks died when Riles didn't like the deals.

Brooklyn didn't enter the picture until January......

Pretty sure in that some article, it talks about KD and James discussing teaming up way before January. Brooklyn was always in that discussion, we didn’t have the amount of picks that the Nets had to make a deal. That’s all that mattered to Rafael Stone and Tilman Fertitta.

At that time Miami or even Houston could have traded some if not all Herro, Robinson, Precious and KZ to find first round picks. Brooklyn traded J.Allen to Cleveland to get a 1st. At the time Herro was probably worth a higher lottery pick which is way more valuable then multiple mid to late 1st round picks. Try to get a top 10 pick for 2 1st round picks out of the lottery, it's not happening.

I completely believe Miami could have made trades to get the assets Houston wanted for Harden at the time, it just would have taken possibly everyone not named Butler, Bam, Dragic, Bradley, Harkless and the 2 way players.

I'm sorry, but if you have a chance to get a top tier player who can give you 3+ great years you do it, if it didn't work you could replenish your assets by moving both Harden and Butler and going full rebuild around Bam.

You’re not getting 1st round picks for all them dudes, especially Precious and KZ. That’s laughable, the Rockets got four unprotected 1st round picks that we don’t have and four pick swaps to go along with that. And no, Tyler isn’t nor was he valued higher than Jarrett Allen either. That’s fine if you want to believe it, it’s completely different than what actually happened though.

[AirP.]

Pretty sure in that some article, it talks about KD and James discussing teaming up way before January. Brooklyn was always in that discussion, we didn’t have the amount of picks that the Nets had to make a deal. That’s all that mattered to Rafael Stone and Tilman Fertitta.

At that time Miami or even Houston could have traded some if not all Herro, Robinson, Precious and KZ to find first round picks. Brooklyn traded J.Allen to Cleveland to get a 1st. At the time Herro was probably worth a higher lottery pick which is way more valuable then multiple mid to late 1st round picks. Try to get a top 10 pick for 2 1st round picks out of the lottery, it's not happening.

I completely believe Miami could have made trades to get the assets Houston wanted for Harden at the time, it just would have taken possibly everyone not named Butler, Bam, Dragic, Bradley, Harkless and the 2 way players.

I'm sorry, but if you have a chance to get a top tier player who can give you 3+ great years you do it, if it didn't work you could replenish your assets by moving both Harden and Butler and going full rebuild around Bam.

You’re not getting 1st round picks for all them dudes, especially Precious and KZ. That’s laughable, the Rockets got four unprotected 1st round picks that we don’t have and four pick swaps to go along with that. And no, Tyler isn’t nor was he valued higher than Jarrett Allen either. That’s fine if you want to believe it, it’s completely different than what actually happened though.

At the beginning of the year when this was being talked about, yeah you were, now of course not.

They got 4 unprotected picks, 3 of them will or should be at the end of the first round... Milwaulkee and Brooklyn's 1st round picks of 2022, Brooklyn's 2024 pick should be late in the 1st round too and only the 2026 pick may be be a good pick. The swaps with Brooklyn PROBABLY won't happen till possibly 2027. I personally don't see the Rockets having a worse pick then Brooklyn for a long time.

If you just look at the picks without the context of where those picks come from it looks better, but in all reality, Houston traded Harden for 3 picks so far back in the 1st round that may or may not become solid rotation players, 1 pick that could possibly become a good starter and 1 pick swap that could net them a starter/rotation piece... they also got LeVert but had him moved for Oladipo.... LeVert or Oladipo will probably be way better then anyone Houston drafts from those picks they got. Harden's price was CHEAP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[DayofMourning]

Midas whale trade Jimmy to GS. See if they willing to sacrifice youth/picks for one more Curry Finals push.

[twix2500]

I figure the only way we get Lowry is via S&T since it would make no sense to use all our cap space on him. I really do think Lowry does want to come here and play with Butler.

Who do you want to use capspace on?

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[NBADraft2003]

At that time Miami or even Houston could have traded some if not all Herro, Robinson, Precious and KZ to find first round picks. Brooklyn traded J.Allen to Cleveland to get a 1st. At the time Herro was probably worth a higher lottery pick which is way more valuable then multiple mid to late 1st round picks. Try to get a top 10 pick for 2 1st round picks out of the lottery, it's not happening.

I completely believe Miami could have made trades to get the assets Houston wanted for Harden at the time, it just would have taken possibly everyone not named Butler, Bam, Dragic, Bradley, Harkless and the 2 way players.

I'm sorry, but if you have a chance to get a top tier player who can give you 3+ great years you do it, if it didn't work you could replenish your assets by moving both Harden and Butler and going full rebuild around Bam.

You’re not getting 1st round picks for all them dudes, especially Precious and KZ. That’s laughable, the Rockets got four unprotected 1st round picks that we don’t have and four pick swaps to go along with that. And no, Tyler isn’t nor was he valued higher than Jarrett Allen either. That’s fine if you want to believe it, it’s completely different than what actually happened though.

At the beginning of the year when this was possible, yeah you were.

They got 4 unprotected picks, 3 of them will or should be at the end of the first round... Milwaulkee and Brooklyn's 1st round picks of 2022, Brooklyn's 2024 pick should be late in the 1st round too and only the 2026 pick may be be a good pick. The swaps with Brooklyn PROBABLY won't happen till possibly 2027. I personally don't see the Rockets having a worse pick then Brooklyn for a long time.

If you just look at the picks without the context of where those picks come from it looks better, but in all reality, Houston traded Harden for 3 picks that could make their bad rotation, 1 pick that could possibly be a good starter and 1 pick swap that could net them a starter/rotation piece... they also got Levert but had him moved for Oladipo.... LeVert or Oladipo will probably be way better then anyone Houston drafts from those picks they got. Harden's price was CHEAP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It wasn’t. If teams valued KZ or Precious that high, they would’ve traded up to get them, they didn’t. Anything is possible in what if scenarios, which is all that you’re basing this stuff on. “What if Team X valued KZ and Precious enough to give 1st round picks.” That wasn’t happening. All those picks will probably be at the end of the 1st round but do tanking teams care? No. That’s more assets that they get, they have complete control of Brooklyn’s future if something goes wrong(pray it doesn’t nt). Brooklyn gave up a lot for James, we didn’t have what they wanted. It is what it is.

And the draft is a complete crap shoot. Draymond Green turned out to be a better player than most guys in his draft class. Isaiah Thomas also was much better than most of his draft class. Where you are picked does not matter. In the next few years, they are going to have somebody that will be better than Caris and Vic. Especially the latter. Context is, they got 4 unprotected picks that we don’t have nor could’ve gotten and Brooklyn gave up complete unprotected control on picks in the future. Knock on wood, all it takes is one or two injuries to their top players and that’s it.

[NBADraft2003]

Midas whale trade Jimmy to GS. See if they willing to sacrifice youth/picks for one more Curry Finals push.

I would honestly do that only if Jimmy wants that and they’d 10000% be willing to give up some youth and picks to maximize the windows of Steph, Klay, and Dray.

[twix2500]

They liked the Rockets deal. It is what it is

Yeah, I don't think we had a shot at Harden. I think Harden chose where he wanted to get traded.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2934230-the-2-month-trade-request-how-james-harden-forced-his-way-out-of-houston?fbclid=IwAR03kSOXDeGMPrMVPjDqDslKXdFtDW6A6uQAbF5bzqvOEw-0VR-HEasx6BU

Bleacherreport has a full article on the subject... Harden's 1st pick was Brooklyn, and his 2nd pick was Miami, and he was fine going to Miami. At one point in December, he thought he was coming here until apparently Riles pulled out of trade talks and the talks died.

There was nothing more the Heat could do. There are only so many offers a team can make. Once they seen they couldn't meet this demands and Rockets were not wavering they moved on.

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[twix2500]

Reports say our negotiations died in December, as Harden was fully expecting to be traded to Miami, but then the talks died when Riles didn't like the deals.

Brooklyn didn't enter the picture until January......

Pretty sure in that some article, it talks about KD and James discussing teaming up way before January. Brooklyn was always in that discussion, we didn’t have the amount of picks that the Nets had to make a deal. That’s all that mattered to Rafael Stone and Tilman Fertitta.

At that time Miami or even Houston could have traded some if not all Herro, Robinson, Precious and KZ to find first round picks. Brooklyn traded J.Allen to Cleveland to get a 1st. At the time Herro was probably worth a higher lottery pick which is way more valuable then multiple mid to late 1st round picks. Try to get a top 10 pick for 2 1st round picks out of the lottery, it's not happening.

I completely believe Miami could have made trades to get the assets Houston wanted for Harden at the time, it just would have taken possibly everyone not named Butler, Bam, Dragic, Bradley, Harkless and the 2 way players.

I'm sorry, but if you have a chance to get a top tier player who can give you 3+ great years you do it, if it didn't work you could replenish your assets by moving both Harden and Butler and going full rebuild around Bam.

Heat were not holding Herro out of the deal. He was in their offer. They could not get the demanded draft picks. It was reported the Rockets valued draft picks

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