Moderators: Dirk, HMFFL, Mavrelous
GeorgeGervin wrote:Bob8 wrote:leolozon wrote:
I remember Mavs players being mostly wide open too. THJ and KP kept bricking their open 3s. Same with Kleber and Burke who were wide open when they shot.
They shot worst, I don't think the quality of the shots were THAT different.
Difference was obvious. Clippers shots were wide open in higher %.
Sure but to be fair THJ and KP had a lot of open shots too, they were getting the same quality of shots as usual, they just couldn't make them sadly. It's sad when you think about it, had the role players hit like 33% from 3 we could have won this series but that's part of the game.
MrOrange wrote:fuller4379 wrote:The KP gamble is looking terrible right now. It looked like a good gamble at the time because KP was an all star prior to the injury. He was solid his first season back, but this season his defense regressed so much that he was a liability on the court. I didn’t think a torn meniscus took this long to recover. I think he quit the team this year because he isn’t Robin to Batman, but a Wonder Twin to Superman.
No, no no. Meniscus played a HUGE part because he had no time to work on his lower body and general physique due to the late surgery and earlier-than-expected start of the season. It all came back to bite him in the ass. On the second point: if you were a max player, you would be pissed off as well to be relegated to a floor stretcher. It devalues him and every athlete has some sort of personal goals in sports as well. And there is something, of course, between KP and Luka that needs to be addressed. 2 passes on his early points last night came from Boban. At this point, KP is not tradeable for any value and he will be with the team next season. Hopefully in a better shape and a bit more muscle, capable of driving and cutting.
arkuo wrote:JJ Reddick needs to thank Donnie Nelson for the free money, plus being Luka's teammate, he has first hand exclusive YouTube content featuring Luka for even more views. He's YouTube channel views have been going up being Luka's teammate and talking about him. Gotta love Donnie.
Donnie talking to himself: "Should the Mavs enter the playoffs with one less player on the bench? Sure, count me in"
Trades James Johnson for a Youtuber.
This comes right after he got shafted by Daryl Morey without lube on the Seth Curry deal. I bet he's the laughing stock in NBA circles with his thick glasses and powerpoint presentations trying to recruit players.
MrOrange wrote:No, no no. Meniscus played a HUGE part because he had no time to work on his lower body and general physique due to the late surgery and earlier-than-expected start of the season. It all came back to bite him in the ass. On the second point: if you were a max player, you would be pissed off as well to be relegated to a floor stretcher. It devalues him and every athlete has some sort of personal goals in sports as well. And there is something, of course, between KP and Luka that needs to be addressed. 2 passes on his early points last night came from Boban. At this point, KP is not tradeable for any value and he will be with the team next season. Hopefully in a better shape and a bit more muscle, capable of driving and cutting.
JJP wrote:
KP is tradeable. You just have to find a dance partner (like Boston or maybe a bottom feeder). Value can come back in the form of decent players plus draft picks if necessary.
The issue here is that he has no value here, and the fan base doesn't like him. It's no longer a good place for him. He will will likely want to be moved, and his agent will want him moved. And Cuban would have to shoulder a lot of heat keeping him and Luca together in what clearly isn't working.
JD45 wrote:JJP wrote:
KP is tradeable. You just have to find a dance partner (like Boston or maybe a bottom feeder). Value can come back in the form of decent players plus draft picks if necessary.
The issue here is that he has no value here, and the fan base doesn't like him. It's no longer a good place for him. He will will likely want to be moved, and his agent will want him moved. And Cuban would have to shoulder a lot of heat keeping him and Luca together in what clearly isn't working.
I think the potential of rehabilitating KP is greater than the potential of whatever they get back in a trade. He is young and talented and has been very productive. We don't know what was going on behind the scenes, but I this was as much or more of a coaching problem than a KP problem.
JJP wrote:
I don't really agree here.
What's "rehabilitating"? He's not going to suddenly be so healthy that he moves better and gets the ball in his hands more. That's wishful thinking. Everybody says he's healthy. Carlisle said it last night. If you're talking about getting him aligned with the system better, Carlisle had all year to manage this system part of this for KP. It didn't take.
No, it's true you're not going to get back what you bought with KP, but that's not the measurement to use. It's about getting a more effective player in the system to surround Doncic properly. If you don't trade KP, you're really gambling with Doncic's future.
JD45 wrote:
By "rehabilitating" I mean getting his productivity back to where it was last year. Some of that is on KP to improve his body and add some new skills. Some of that is on the coaching staff to build an offense to get the most out of KP. Maybe both are too stubborn and short sighted to make those changes. Or maybe Luka hates KP so much he is intentionally freezing him out of the offense. I don't know. But I do know that a guy that tall, who moves and shoots that well should be able to get back to being an excellent offensive player. And I watched the series frequently wondering why there were so few plays for KP.
Good points.JD45 wrote:JJP wrote:
KP is tradeable. You just have to find a dance partner (like Boston or maybe a bottom feeder). Value can come back in the form of decent players plus draft picks if necessary.
The issue here is that he has no value here, and the fan base doesn't like him. It's no longer a good place for him. He will will likely want to be moved, and his agent will want him moved. And Cuban would have to shoulder a lot of heat keeping him and Luca together in what clearly isn't working.
I think the potential of rehabilitating KP is greater than the potential of whatever they get back in a trade. He is young and talented and has been very productive. We don't know what was going on behind the scenes, but I this was as much or more of a coaching problem than a KP problem.
JD45 wrote:MrOrange wrote:fuller4379 wrote:The KP gamble is looking terrible right now. It looked like a good gamble at the time because KP was an all star prior to the injury. He was solid his first season back, but this season his defense regressed so much that he was a liability on the court. I didn’t think a torn meniscus took this long to recover. I think he quit the team this year because he isn’t Robin to Batman, but a Wonder Twin to Superman.
No, no no. Meniscus played a HUGE part because he had no time to work on his lower body and general physique due to the late surgery and earlier-than-expected start of the season. It all came back to bite him in the ass. On the second point: if you were a max player, you would be pissed off as well to be relegated to a floor stretcher. It devalues him and every athlete has some sort of personal goals in sports as well. And there is something, of course, between KP and Luka that needs to be addressed. 2 passes on his early points last night came from Boban. At this point, KP is not tradeable for any value and he will be with the team next season. Hopefully in a better shape and a bit more muscle, capable of driving and cutting.
I think it was some of all of that.
The messed up off-season prevented him from working on his strength and skills. That's no one's fault.
KP has an awful hole in his game in playing against smaller defenders, and improving his ability to exploit that mismatch is his responsibility. Part of that is going to be getting bigger than he wants and maybe sacrificing some agility. But that extra agility is only useful if other 7 footers guard him on the perimeter and as it stands now, there is just no need for them to do so.
RC is equally responsible for this problem. We all saw examples of teams neutralizing KP in the regular season with wing defenders. And RC never seemed to solve it. I saw a few examples in the playoffs where they used screens to get KP deep post position and he scored with ease, but they quickly abandoned it to go back to Luka hero ball.
Despite all our negative feelings right now, KP remains an extremely talented athlete. I don't know if there has ever been an NBA player with his combination of length, agility and shooting ability. There is no chance of the Mavs getting anyone with equal ability in a trade. He has been very productive in the regular season and in playoff games last year. He can do it because he has done it. KP has got to get his focus on what he needs to do to adjust his game and RC has to game plan to maximize his abilities.
MrOrange wrote:JD45 wrote:MrOrange wrote:No, no no. Meniscus played a HUGE part because he had no time to work on his lower body and general physique due to the late surgery and earlier-than-expected start of the season. It all came back to bite him in the ass. On the second point: if you were a max player, you would be pissed off as well to be relegated to a floor stretcher. It devalues him and every athlete has some sort of personal goals in sports as well. And there is something, of course, between KP and Luka that needs to be addressed. 2 passes on his early points last night came from Boban. At this point, KP is not tradeable for any value and he will be with the team next season. Hopefully in a better shape and a bit more muscle, capable of driving and cutting.
I think it was some of all of that.
The messed up off-season prevented him from working on his strength and skills. That's no one's fault.
KP has an awful hole in his game in playing against smaller defenders, and improving his ability to exploit that mismatch is his responsibility. Part of that is going to be getting bigger than he wants and maybe sacrificing some agility. But that extra agility is only useful if other 7 footers guard him on the perimeter and as it stands now, there is just no need for them to do so.
RC is equally responsible for this problem. We all saw examples of teams neutralizing KP in the regular season with wing defenders. And RC never seemed to solve it. I saw a few examples in the playoffs where they used screens to get KP deep post position and he scored with ease, but they quickly abandoned it to go back to Luka hero ball.
Despite all our negative feelings right now, KP remains an extremely talented athlete. I don't know if there has ever been an NBA player with his combination of length, agility and shooting ability. There is no chance of the Mavs getting anyone with equal ability in a trade. He has been very productive in the regular season and in playoff games last year. He can do it because he has done it. KP has got to get his focus on what he needs to do to adjust his game and RC has to game plan to maximize his abilities.
I agree. It is a combination of all sorts of things, some of them are KP's own responsibility, some of them have nothing to do with him. But what I happen to see on some of Twitter comments, etc is kinda unfair. The real judge of the situation will be the first half of the next season and in what shape KP and the team, in general, will enter it. Until then all this talk is not really relevant because I have no idea how KP can be traded for a similar value salary-wise and also impact-wise until then.
leolozon wrote:Bob8 wrote:leolozon wrote:
Unless you have numbers, I don't think it was in a % high enough to explain the difference in shooting.
Here you have for first 6 games and it looked even more obvious tonight.
https://www.nba.com/stats/teams/shots-closest-defender/
I'm not sure how this is an argument against what I said.
First, you would have to take Luka out of the equation, because he does his own thing with his step back 3. Luka was wide open on only 7.3%.
Considering the % I'm seeing from 3 (34.7% open and wide open for the Mavs and 38.1% for the Clips), minus Luka, I'm standing by the idea that the Mavs role players were also taking open 3s in this game and the difference was that they didn't hit them. A difference of 3.4% (minus Luka) can't explain shooting around 25% (without Luka) VS 46%.
fuller4379 wrote:MrOrange wrote:JD45 wrote:
I think it was some of all of that.
The messed up off-season prevented him from working on his strength and skills. That's no one's fault.
KP has an awful hole in his game in playing against smaller defenders, and improving his ability to exploit that mismatch is his responsibility. Part of that is going to be getting bigger than he wants and maybe sacrificing some agility. But that extra agility is only useful if other 7 footers guard him on the perimeter and as it stands now, there is just no need for them to do so.
RC is equally responsible for this problem. We all saw examples of teams neutralizing KP in the regular season with wing defenders. And RC never seemed to solve it. I saw a few examples in the playoffs where they used screens to get KP deep post position and he scored with ease, but they quickly abandoned it to go back to Luka hero ball.
Despite all our negative feelings right now, KP remains an extremely talented athlete. I don't know if there has ever been an NBA player with his combination of length, agility and shooting ability. There is no chance of the Mavs getting anyone with equal ability in a trade. He has been very productive in the regular season and in playoff games last year. He can do it because he has done it. KP has got to get his focus on what he needs to do to adjust his game and RC has to game plan to maximize his abilities.
I agree. It is a combination of all sorts of things, some of them are KP's own responsibility, some of them have nothing to do with him. But what I happen to see on some of Twitter comments, etc is kinda unfair. The real judge of the situation will be the first half of the next season and in what shape KP and the team, in general, will enter it. Until then all this talk is not really relevant because I have no idea how KP can be traded for a similar value salary-wise and also impact-wise until then.
His regular season numbers look decent. He averaged 20.1 per game and 8.9 rebounds. His shooting percentage was the best of his career. His blocks were down and his defense sucked. I think we can trade him to a third tier team who doesn't have a star of it and present him as a disgruntled alpha who didn't want to be a beta.
fuller4379 wrote:MrOrange wrote:JD45 wrote:
I think it was some of all of that.
The messed up off-season prevented him from working on his strength and skills. That's no one's fault.
KP has an awful hole in his game in playing against smaller defenders, and improving his ability to exploit that mismatch is his responsibility. Part of that is going to be getting bigger than he wants and maybe sacrificing some agility. But that extra agility is only useful if other 7 footers guard him on the perimeter and as it stands now, there is just no need for them to do so.
RC is equally responsible for this problem. We all saw examples of teams neutralizing KP in the regular season with wing defenders. And RC never seemed to solve it. I saw a few examples in the playoffs where they used screens to get KP deep post position and he scored with ease, but they quickly abandoned it to go back to Luka hero ball.
Despite all our negative feelings right now, KP remains an extremely talented athlete. I don't know if there has ever been an NBA player with his combination of length, agility and shooting ability. There is no chance of the Mavs getting anyone with equal ability in a trade. He has been very productive in the regular season and in playoff games last year. He can do it because he has done it. KP has got to get his focus on what he needs to do to adjust his game and RC has to game plan to maximize his abilities.
I agree. It is a combination of all sorts of things, some of them are KP's own responsibility, some of them have nothing to do with him. But what I happen to see on some of Twitter comments, etc is kinda unfair. The real judge of the situation will be the first half of the next season and in what shape KP and the team, in general, will enter it. Until then all this talk is not really relevant because I have no idea how KP can be traded for a similar value salary-wise and also impact-wise until then.
His regular season numbers look decent. He averaged 20.1 per game and 8.9 rebounds. His shooting percentage was the best of his career. His blocks were down and his defense sucked. I think we can trade him to a third tier team who doesn't have a star of it and present him as a disgruntled alpha who didn't want to be a beta.
agentofatlas wrote:fuller4379 wrote:MrOrange wrote:
I agree. It is a combination of all sorts of things, some of them are KP's own responsibility, some of them have nothing to do with him. But what I happen to see on some of Twitter comments, etc is kinda unfair. The real judge of the situation will be the first half of the next season and in what shape KP and the team, in general, will enter it. Until then all this talk is not really relevant because I have no idea how KP can be traded for a similar value salary-wise and also impact-wise until then.
His regular season numbers look decent. He averaged 20.1 per game and 8.9 rebounds. His shooting percentage was the best of his career. His blocks were down and his defense sucked. I think we can trade him to a third tier team who doesn't have a star of it and present him as a disgruntled alpha who didn't want to be a beta.
Best case scenario for us and KP. He really needs to go can go to a team where he can get his numbers.
MrOrange wrote:agentofatlas wrote:fuller4379 wrote:
His regular season numbers look decent. He averaged 20.1 per game and 8.9 rebounds. His shooting percentage was the best of his career. His blocks were down and his defense sucked. I think we can trade him to a third tier team who doesn't have a star of it and present him as a disgruntled alpha who didn't want to be a beta.
Best case scenario for us and KP. He really needs to go can go to a team where he can get his numbers.
I can repeat that question above? If this is the best scenario for the Mavs, who is it that you can realistically get from a third-tier team? I kinda thought Mavs were in a compete now mode...
