Rainwater wrote:Isn't LBJ a wing player?
notice he didnt answer you
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Rainwater wrote:Isn't LBJ a wing player?
tiderulz wrote:this. you can win with avg player at center, you cant with avg players at your guard/wing positions
pepe1991 wrote:Rainwater wrote:pepe1991 wrote:
Alex Caruso
Talen Horton-Tucker
Pope
Rondo
JR Smith
2019- 20 Lakers guard rotation on championship roster.
You can win with every position being average or even below average as long as your superstars are good enough to carry.
It's easier to build roster around superstar wing like Durant or Kawhi or Lebron, but it doesn't change fact that likes of Lavine, Beal, star SGs or Chris Paul , Westbrook, Lillard, Wall ( in past) never achived anything as best players despite playing " more impacful" positions than bigs.
In context or Orlando, Mobley isn't best pick, but in terms of highest upside, it's no secret he is better than anybody you can draft if Green & Cade are gone.
Isn't LBJ a wing player?
Me and him went into heated debate about importance of role players. I called them disposable, he said they are very important.
My orginal point, during our fight was that superstars are only thing that matters when it comes to building team.
Lebron and Davis matter, others , imo, were movable peaces ,hence, they removed basically whole bench from one year to another.
tiderulz wrote:Rainwater wrote:Isn't LBJ a wing player?
notice he didnt answer you
pepe1991 wrote:Rainwater wrote:pepe1991 wrote:
Alex Caruso
Talen Horton-Tucker
Pope
Rondo
JR Smith
2019- 20 Lakers guard rotation on championship roster.
You can win with every position being average or even below average as long as your superstars are good enough to carry.
It's easier to build roster around superstar wing like Durant or Kawhi or Lebron, but it doesn't change fact that likes of Lavine, Beal, star SGs or Chris Paul , Westbrook, Lillard, Wall ( in past) never achived anything as best players despite playing " more impacful" positions than bigs.
In context or Orlando, Mobley isn't best pick, but in terms of highest upside, it's no secret he is better than anybody you can draft if Green & Cade are gone.
Isn't LBJ a wing player?
Me and him went into heated debate about importance of role players. I called them disposable, he said they are very important.
My orginal point, during our fight was that superstars are only thing that matters when it comes to building team.
Lebron and Davis matter, others , imo, were movable peaces ,hence, they removed basically whole bench from one year to another.
Rainwater wrote:tiderulz wrote:Rainwater wrote:Isn't LBJ a wing player?
notice he didnt answer you
I think you are both right though. I think he is saying if you surround multiple superstars, regardless of position, with good roles you should be able to contend. But I do agree with your point that it's easier with wing players/guards.
tiderulz wrote:Rainwater wrote:tiderulz wrote:notice he didnt answer you
I think you are both right though. I think he is saying if you surround multiple superstars, regardless of position, with good roles you should be able to contend. But I do agree with your point that it's easier with wing players/guards.
just look at the past 20 years of champions and who won with avg centers
drsd wrote:tiderulz wrote:this. you can win with avg player at center, you cant with avg players at your guard/wing positions
Last starting Cs:
2020 - McGee
2019 - Ibaka
2018 - Pachulia
2017 - Pachulia
2016 - Thompson
2015 - Bogut
2014 - Splitter (or Duncan depending on perspective)
2013 - Bosh
2012 - Bosh
One thing looking at these lists is that many NBA champions haven't had a "real" Center starting major minutes.
..
Rainwater wrote:I see. You are right, I concede that point. As long as you have 2 to 3 superstars, regardless of position, and you complement those superstars well with role players you should contend. I just feel like it's easier to do that wing players with how the game is played today.
But I would argue how often have you seen a team with big men as their only star or stars with no star wing win a championship? You could say Dirk and Dream or Duncan's first chip with Robinson. But it is just far easier to do it with wings.
tiderulz wrote:...
but not just any role player. you replace Marcus Morris with someone else, Clips dont win yesterday. ....
LA Lakers still had LBJ and Davis, but the team didnt seem or feel as dominant as they did last year. Yes, they had injuries, but you could tell they werent as good. Maybe they missed Danny Green and Rondo? we will never know.
yes, you need super players to win, no one is saying that you dont. But you also need the "right" role players that fit with the team, not just any warm body. you dont just swap out key role players for just anyone and think you will do just as good.
tiderulz wrote:Rainwater wrote:I see. You are right, I concede that point. As long as you have 2 to 3 superstars, regardless of position, and you complement those superstars well with role players you should contend. I just feel like it's easier to do that wing players with how the game is played today.
But I would argue how often have you seen a team with big men as their only star or stars with no star wing win a championship? You could say Dirk and Dream or Duncan's first chip with Robinson. But it is just far easier to do it with wings.
but not just any role player. you replace Marcus Morris with someone else, Clips dont win yesterday.
LA has 2 of the supposed best wing defenders in the league. but they needed Morris, Rondo, Kennard, Mann to be there. Meanwhile Luka, arguably top 5-7 player in the league, his role players didnt give him much.
LA Lakers still had LBJ and Davis, but the team didnt seem or feel as dominant as they did last year. Yes, they had injuries, but you could tell they werent as good. Maybe they missed Danny Green and Rondo? we will never know.
yes, you need super players to win, no one is saying that you dont. But you also need the "right" role players that fit with the team, not just any warm body. you dont just swap out key role players for just anyone and think you will do just as good.
nicnac215 wrote:The Effect wrote:MagicMatic wrote:
This league is run by playmakers. Get a playmaker with a top 5 pick.
WHile true, its not that simple
Lets say that you have a time machine and go forward and see that these guys reach their top potential and they end up mimicking the 2012 Draft
Mobley = AD
Green = Beal
Suggs = Dame
Who do you take?
The cold blooded leader
The elite 3 level scorer
the best PF in the NBA
In this scenario I’m asking myself firstly why is Suggs who is an avg at best 3pt shooter compared to Dame. Secondly if those comparisons were to come true who would I want paired most with Isaac.... To me that is Green, then Mobley, then Suggs. Mobley is growing on me a lot, and I am convinced it is worth it to trade a lot of future assets to get Mobley if our pick goes 1 or 2, and Chi goes to us. #8-10+2023 Chi 1st, 2025 Den 1st, 2022 Orl 1st top 5 protected, 2024 Orlando 1st top 3 protected, and one of Bamba or WCJ.
Rainwater wrote:RookieStar wrote:Rainwater wrote:
I think the the majority of people would say take the BPA and that should always be the case. If Mobley is that guy you better take him. However, in today's league you need somebody who is a creator and could score on the perimeter and the magic have struggled finding since T-Mac. And even if you you have that big you still will need that guy on perimeter. Be it Joker with Murray and MPJ or Embiid with Simmons and Harris (to a lesser extent). Yes, draft Mobley he definitely the second best player in the draft but for the sake of me please pair him up with a good perimeter player.
I agree we have struggled because we didnt havr a playmaker but I disagree that Tmac was our last playmaker. Are the new generation of magic fans forgetting Turkey-glue? Sure he might have been overshadowed by the stardom of D12 or the scoring prowess of Ra$$$hard but the guy could create moresp than our pg at that time.
So yeah, we were more succesful when we had a very good to elite playmaker and whatever position may that be.. we take that guy.
Lol, I have been around since the Shaq and Penny days. I always thought guys like Nelson and Hedo over played their actual abilities and were kinda a fluke hence why that team didn't enjoy more success. They only played at that level for a season or two. The team never had a consistent scoring threat since T-Mac.
RookieStar wrote:Rainwater wrote:RookieStar wrote:
I agree we have struggled because we didnt havr a playmaker but I disagree that Tmac was our last playmaker. Are the new generation of magic fans forgetting Turkey-glue? Sure he might have been overshadowed by the stardom of D12 or the scoring prowess of Ra$$$hard but the guy could create moresp than our pg at that time.
So yeah, we were more succesful when we had a very good to elite playmaker and whatever position may that be.. we take that guy.
Lol, I have been around since the Shaq and Penny days. I always thought guys like Nelson and Hedo over played their actual abilities and were kinda a fluke hence why that team didn't enjoy more success. They only played at that level for a season or two. The team never had a consistent scoring threat since T-Mac.
Naaah. Turk was the real "point-forward" A 6'10 dude that has ball-handling abilities, can make the perimeter/3 pt shot as well as drive and post you up if you were smaller than him. Also, with him directing plays, it enabled Jameer to excel what he is good at...scoring rather than running the team. But yeah, he wasn't as prolific at scoring compared to Tmac ( who was???) lol
Rainwater wrote:RookieStar wrote:Rainwater wrote:
Lol, I have been around since the Shaq and Penny days. I always thought guys like Nelson and Hedo over played their actual abilities and were kinda a fluke hence why that team didn't enjoy more success. They only played at that level for a season or two. The team never had a consistent scoring threat since T-Mac.
Naaah. Turk was the real "point-forward" A 6'10 dude that has ball-handling abilities, can make the perimeter/3 pt shot as well as drive and post you up if you were smaller than him. Also, with him directing plays, it enabled Jameer to excel what he is good at...scoring rather than running the team. But yeah, he wasn't as prolific at scoring compared to Tmac ( who was???) lol
I'm not comparing talent wise but just comparing consistence. Obviously, T-Mac is better. But those 1 or 2 years from Hedo were such a fluke it is not even worth mentioning in my opinion. He had never done anything like that prior to those two years and he never did nothing like that after.
RookieStar wrote:Rainwater wrote:RookieStar wrote:
Naaah. Turk was the real "point-forward" A 6'10 dude that has ball-handling abilities, can make the perimeter/3 pt shot as well as drive and post you up if you were smaller than him. Also, with him directing plays, it enabled Jameer to excel what he is good at...scoring rather than running the team. But yeah, he wasn't as prolific at scoring compared to Tmac ( who was???) lol
I'm not comparing talent wise but just comparing consistence. Obviously, T-Mac is better. But those 1 or 2 years from Hedo were such a fluke it is not even worth mentioning in my opinion. He had never done anything like that prior to those two years and he never did nothing like that after.
He was already showng shades of that talent in SAC. I think thats why we threw the MLE at him? But I think we got peak Hedo. When he went to TOR and the 2nd stinit with us, his level was already going down. Plus he really got out of shape. IT happens. Not all players are like MJ LBJ or Kobe that has a longer peak.
The Effect wrote:MagicMatic wrote:The Effect wrote:
Ignore the current roster, no one on the team currently is a superstar and can be replaced.
If we were basing it on whats currently on the roster (which isnt anything we should be doing with current roster), id say we're more set in the backcourt than at PF
those 2 position are more "set" than PF
This league is run by playmakers. Get a playmaker with a top 5 pick.
WHile true, its not that simple
Lets say that you have a time machine and go forward and see that these guys reach their top potential and they end up mimicking the 2012 Draft
Mobley = AD
Green = Beal
Suggs = Dame
Who do you take?
The cold blooded leader
The elite 3 level scorer
the best PF in the NBA