The uncomfortable "truth" about this season (Julius and RJ)

[Fury]

I’ve already compared Derozan coming out of college to RJ now a while ago. They aren’t really similar.

I followed Derozan since High School. You were like in middle school? The player he is now isn't the player he was then. Barrett was a way better prospect.

Doesn’t look like you followed him at all.

Ok, describe his game coming out of college. Not who he is now.

[Ghetto Gospel]

In what era? In this one, the way teams are built, a team of randle/brown or randle/rj + cap space +draft capital get you looked at by the next disgruntled superstar looking to leave/form a superteam

not happening on the knicks

Why haven’t you won the lottery yet?

because i dont play it, i dont have delusions of grandeur. when was the last time we got a superstar player in free agency or trade that made us a contender? what makes you think we'll get one now? media infused delusions of grandeur?

[3toheadmelo]

I don't think RJ is like Tatum but you get too emotionally attached to some dudes. Chillax.

I’m not the one making homer posts just to end up disappointed in the long term. So go ahead. I ain’t stopping you.

RJ Barrett can't get to Derozan's level? Come on. That's not being a homer. Derozan isn't some all time great.

I’m saying their games are very different. Derozan had a much better handle, always had a mid range game and isn’t a stiff athlete. Much different prospects so the comparison is meaningless.

[Fury]

I’m not the one making homer posts just to end up disappointed in the long term. So go ahead. I ain’t stopping you.

RJ Barrett can't get to Derozan's level? Come on. That's not being a homer. Derozan isn't some all time great.

I’m saying their games are very different. Derozan had a much better handle, always had a mid range game and isn’t a stiff athlete. Much different prospects so the comparison is meaningless.

Derozan did not have a much better handle. He could not really create on his own. He needed a PG to set him up. In fact, even though he was really athletic, he didn't have a great first step, which wasn't helped by his handle. His mid-range game was always developing until it became automatic a few years into the league, not his second year. So what you're saying isn't true. He wasn't a good halfcourt player and he couldn't create for himself or others.

[jvsimonetti0514]

RJ Barrett can't get to Derozan's level? Come on. That's not being a homer. Derozan isn't some all time great.

I’m saying their games are very different. Derozan had a much better handle, always had a mid range game and isn’t a stiff athlete. Much different prospects so the comparison is meaningless.

Derozan did not have a much better handle. He could not really create on his own. He needed a PG to set him up. In fact, even though he was really athletic, he didn't have a great first step, which wasn't helped by his handle. His mid-range game was always developing until it became automatic a few years into the league, not his second year. So what you're saying isn't true. He wasn't a good halfcourt player and he couldn't create for himself or others.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/183836-nba-draft-prospects-demar-derozan-usc

https://www.nbadraft.net/players/demar-derozan/

Looks like both of you are right. He was an terrible ball handler with a mid range shot according to these scouting reports from him in college. I know nbadraft.net is pretty trash now but they were pretty good 15 years ago.

[3toheadmelo]

RJ Barrett can't get to Derozan's level? Come on. That's not being a homer. Derozan isn't some all time great.

I’m saying their games are very different. Derozan had a much better handle, always had a mid range game and isn’t a stiff athlete. Much different prospects so the comparison is meaningless.

Derozan did not have a much better handle. He could not really create on his own. He needed a PG to set him up. In fact, even though he was really athletic, he didn't have a great first step, which wasn't helped by his handle. His mid-range game was always developing until it became automatic a few years into the league, not his second year. So what you're saying isn't true. He wasn't a good halfcourt player and he couldn't create for himself or others.

There is a bunch of clips of him blowing past defenders and hitting a bunch of mid range shots in here. So like I said I don’t think you actually followed him at all. Now show me RJ hitting a bunch of mid range shots in college. I’ll be waiting.

Watch on YouTube

;t=219s

[Fury]

I’m saying their games are very different. Derozan had a much better handle, always had a mid range game and isn’t a stiff athlete. Much different prospects so the comparison is meaningless.

Derozan did not have a much better handle. He could not really create on his own. He needed a PG to set him up. In fact, even though he was really athletic, he didn't have a great first step, which wasn't helped by his handle. His mid-range game was always developing until it became automatic a few years into the league, not his second year. So what you're saying isn't true. He wasn't a good halfcourt player and he couldn't create for himself or others.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/183836-nba-draft-prospects-demar-derozan-usc

https://www.nbadraft.net/players/demar-derozan/

Looks like both of you are right. He was an terrible ball handler with a mid range shot according to these scouting reports from him in college.

He wasn't able to create his own midrange until he was in the league a few years though (cause of his ball handling).

[3toheadmelo]

I’m saying their games are very different. Derozan had a much better handle, always had a mid range game and isn’t a stiff athlete. Much different prospects so the comparison is meaningless.

Derozan did not have a much better handle. He could not really create on his own. He needed a PG to set him up. In fact, even though he was really athletic, he didn't have a great first step, which wasn't helped by his handle. His mid-range game was always developing until it became automatic a few years into the league, not his second year. So what you're saying isn't true. He wasn't a good halfcourt player and he couldn't create for himself or others.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/183836-nba-draft-prospects-demar-derozan-usc

https://www.nbadraft.net/players/demar-derozan/

Looks like both of you are right. He was an terrible ball handler with a mid range shot according to these scouting reports from him in college. I know nbadraft.net is pretty trash now but they were pretty good 15 years ago.

[Fury]

I’m saying their games are very different. Derozan had a much better handle, always had a mid range game and isn’t a stiff athlete. Much different prospects so the comparison is meaningless.

Derozan did not have a much better handle. He could not really create on his own. He needed a PG to set him up. In fact, even though he was really athletic, he didn't have a great first step, which wasn't helped by his handle. His mid-range game was always developing until it became automatic a few years into the league, not his second year. So what you're saying isn't true. He wasn't a good halfcourt player and he couldn't create for himself or others.

There is a bunch of clips of him blowing past defenders and hitting a bunch of mid range shots in here. So like I said I don’t think you actually followed him at all. Now show me RJ hitting a bunch of mid range shots in college. I’ll be waiting.

Watch on YouTube

;t=219s

Lol so highlights prove this? All these mid range jumpers and what did he average in High School and in College? He dunked a lot. All you have to do is how much he was assisted when he first came into the league and how much he's assisted now to see how dependent he was on a good PG.

[3toheadmelo]

Derozan did not have a much better handle. He could not really create on his own. He needed a PG to set him up. In fact, even though he was really athletic, he didn't have a great first step, which wasn't helped by his handle. His mid-range game was always developing until it became automatic a few years into the league, not his second year. So what you're saying isn't true. He wasn't a good halfcourt player and he couldn't create for himself or others.

There is a bunch of clips of him blowing past defenders and hitting a bunch of mid range shots in here. So like I said I don’t think you actually followed him at all. Now show me RJ hitting a bunch of mid range shots in college. I’ll be waiting.

Watch on YouTube

;t=219s

Lol so highlights prove this? All these mid range jumpers and what did he average in High School and in College? He dunked a lot. All you have to do is how much he was assisted when he first came into the league and how much he's assisted now to see how dependent he was on a good PG.

So footage of him creating his own in the mid range is fake?

[thebuzzardman]

If people don't have the stomach to handle developing RJ, then they probably wont have the patience to handle developing the next guy either and they will be the first to turn on Quickley.

I've decided to get out in front of turning on Quickley.

RJ they should trade while he still has that new player smell, and before the league realizes he'll be a stiff robot for his entire career.

Someone needs to have a serious talk with IQ about shot selection. The floaters in the lane look prettier than humdrum 3pters and the "stop-get-fouled"-floater gives the impression that the player out-smarted the defender.

However, the efficiency is really low. The floater is there to keep the defenders from cheating in defending the 3pt shot, not the other way around and IQ doesn't seem to understand that.

In the playoffs IQ took 11 3pt shots, repeatedly not taking 3pts in order to drive into the lane and put up floaters, and 22 2pt shots. His percentages were a totally unsurprising 36.4% and 27.3%. That's 36.4% on the 3pt shots and 27.3% on the floaters. He also had 7 FTA, so let's imagine that those count towards the floaters as 3x2FTA + 1x+1. That would bump his 2pt attempt percentage up to (at best) ~35% - i.e he would score about 0.7pt/floater. Whereas he scores about 1.1pt/3pta.

A more robotic IQ would be a much more effective IQ.

[edit] I do worry that IQ was taking those decisions under advice from the coaching staff - and Thibs/his staff ought to have corrected this during the play offs either way.

The Hawks doubled Randle and overplayed the few shooters the Knicks have (Burks/Bullocks/IQ/RJ). Since 4 of those guys aren't out there at once and there is always an offensively incompetent center out there, not hard to do.
IQ never had room to shoot.
And he's not really a dribble drive guy, the same way neither Bullocks or RJ is, so that was that.

[prophet_of_rage]

RJ Barrett year 2 (age 20) - 17.6/5.8/3.0 44.1/40.1/74.6 53.5 TS%, 0.078 ws/48 +2.4 Net Rating

Jayson Tatum year 2(Age 20) - 15.7/6.0/2.1 45.0/37.3/85.5 54.7 TS% 0.097 ws/48 +7.0 Net Rating

Jaylen Brown year 2 (Age 21)- 14.5/4.9/1.6 46.5/39.5/64.4 56.2 TS% 0.100 ws/48 +8.0 Net Rating

Brad Beal year 2 (Age 20) - 17.1/3.7/3.3 41.9/40.2/78.8 50.7 TS% 0.076 ws/48 +2.4 net rating

Khris Middleton year 2 (Age 22) - 12.1/3.8/2.1 44.0/41.4/86.1 54.1 TS% 0.053 ws/48 -8.6 net rating

Demar Derozan year 2 (Age 21) - 17.2/3.8/1.8 46.7/09.6/81.3 53.0 TS% 0.055 ws/48 -8.3 net rating

Victor Oladipo year 2 (age 22) - 17.9/4.2/4.1 43.6/33.9/81.9 52.7 TS% 0.065 ws/48 -6.7 net rating

Klay Thompson year 2 (age 22) - 16.6/3.7/2.2 42.2/40.1/84.1 53.3 TS% 0.070 ws/48 +1.4 net rating

Maybe just maybe don't give up on RJ just yet...just sayin'.

Most of these guys ended up being multi time all-star and all-NBA caliber players. Stats aren't the end all be all and in game scouting deserves more weight, but production does matter and RJ's production in his 2nd year mirrors some of the best younger/prime guards and wings in the league in their 2nd years and he happens to be younger than most of them at the time of his 2nd season also.

I understand everyone is disappointed in the playoff performance but i'm not going to overly weigh a 5 game sample size where the best player on the team chit the bed in his 1st playoff series over the 72 games of production that showed a possible all-star/all-nba caliber wing. I suggest y'all don't either, especially, given what we know RJ's work ethic is.

But what if we compare him to Jordan, Lebron and Iverson's second year?

This is why we have to trade him!

/green font

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[jvsimonetti0514]

Derozan did not have a much better handle. He could not really create on his own. He needed a PG to set him up. In fact, even though he was really athletic, he didn't have a great first step, which wasn't helped by his handle. His mid-range game was always developing until it became automatic a few years into the league, not his second year. So what you're saying isn't true. He wasn't a good halfcourt player and he couldn't create for himself or others.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/183836-nba-draft-prospects-demar-derozan-usc

https://www.nbadraft.net/players/demar-derozan/

Looks like both of you are right. He was an terrible ball handler with a mid range shot according to these scouting reports from him in college. I know nbadraft.net is pretty trash now but they were pretty good 15 years ago.

Everyone has made some terrible comps before that doesn't really both me at all. They were a really great source of draft info in the mid to late aughts. The breakdown of strengths and weaknesses seems pretty spot on to me. What are you objecting to from their analysis?

[thebuzzardman]

RJ Barrett year 2 (age 20) - 17.6/5.8/3.0 44.1/40.1/74.6 53.5 TS%, 0.078 ws/48 +2.4 Net Rating

Jayson Tatum year 2(Age 20) - 15.7/6.0/2.1 45.0/37.3/85.5 54.7 TS% 0.097 ws/48 +7.0 Net Rating

Jaylen Brown year 2 (Age 21)- 14.5/4.9/1.6 46.5/39.5/64.4 56.2 TS% 0.100 ws/48 +8.0 Net Rating

Brad Beal year 2 (Age 20) - 17.1/3.7/3.3 41.9/40.2/78.8 50.7 TS% 0.076 ws/48 +2.4 net rating

Khris Middleton year 2 (Age 22) - 12.1/3.8/2.1 44.0/41.4/86.1 54.1 TS% 0.053 ws/48 -8.6 net rating

Demar Derozan year 2 (Age 21) - 17.2/3.8/1.8 46.7/09.6/81.3 53.0 TS% 0.055 ws/48 -8.3 net rating

Victor Oladipo year 2 (age 22) - 17.9/4.2/4.1 43.6/33.9/81.9 52.7 TS% 0.065 ws/48 -6.7 net rating

Klay Thompson year 2 (age 22) - 16.6/3.7/2.2 42.2/40.1/84.1 53.3 TS% 0.070 ws/48 +1.4 net rating

Maybe just maybe don't give up on RJ just yet...just sayin'.

Most of these guys ended up being multi time all-star and all-NBA caliber players. Stats aren't the end all be all and in game scouting deserves more weight, but production does matter and RJ's production in his 2nd year mirrors some of the best younger/prime guards and wings in the league in their 2nd years and he happens to be younger than most of them at the time of his 2nd season also.

I understand everyone is disappointed in the playoff performance but i'm not going to overly weigh a 5 game sample size where the best player on the team chit the bed in his 1st playoff series over the 72 games of production that showed a possible all-star/all-nba caliber wing. I suggest y'all don't either, especially, given what we know RJ's work ethic is.

There's his ceiling

[Fury]

There is a bunch of clips of him blowing past defenders and hitting a bunch of mid range shots in here. So like I said I don’t think you actually followed him at all. Now show me RJ hitting a bunch of mid range shots in college. I’ll be waiting.

Watch on YouTube

;t=219s

Lol so highlights prove this? All these mid range jumpers and what did he average in High School and in College? He dunked a lot. All you have to do is how much he was assisted when he first came into the league and how much he's assisted now to see how dependent he was on a good PG.

So footage of him creating his own in the mid range is fake?

16 mid range jumpshots in a 6+ minute video!! Come on! How many dunks were there? Like 97? I lost count.

He hit a couple of 3s in there, too, I guess he was a good 3 point shooter as well!

[ENYK]

RJ Barrett year 2 (age 20) - 17.6/5.8/3.0 44.1/40.1/74.6 53.5 TS%, 0.078 ws/48 +2.4 Net Rating

Jayson Tatum year 2(Age 20) - 15.7/6.0/2.1 45.0/37.3/85.5 54.7 TS% 0.097 ws/48 +7.0 Net Rating

Jaylen Brown year 2 (Age 21)- 14.5/4.9/1.6 46.5/39.5/64.4 56.2 TS% 0.100 ws/48 +8.0 Net Rating

Brad Beal year 2 (Age 20) - 17.1/3.7/3.3 41.9/40.2/78.8 50.7 TS% 0.076 ws/48 +2.4 net rating

Khris Middleton year 2 (Age 22) - 12.1/3.8/2.1 44.0/41.4/86.1 54.1 TS% 0.053 ws/48 -8.6 net rating

Demar Derozan year 2 (Age 21) - 17.2/3.8/1.8 46.7/09.6/81.3 53.0 TS% 0.055 ws/48 -8.3 net rating

Victor Oladipo year 2 (age 22) - 17.9/4.2/4.1 43.6/33.9/81.9 52.7 TS% 0.065 ws/48 -6.7 net rating

Klay Thompson year 2 (age 22) - 16.6/3.7/2.2 42.2/40.1/84.1 53.3 TS% 0.070 ws/48 +1.4 net rating

Maybe just maybe don't give up on RJ just yet...just sayin'.

Most of these guys ended up being multi time all-star and all-NBA caliber players. Stats aren't the end all be all and in game scouting deserves more weight, but production does matter and RJ's production in his 2nd year mirrors some of the best younger/prime guards and wings in the league in their 2nd years and he happens to be younger than most of them at the time of his 2nd season also.

I understand everyone is disappointed in the playoff performance but i'm not going to overly weigh a 5 game sample size where the best player on the team chit the bed in his 1st playoff series over the 72 games of production that showed a possible all-star/all-nba caliber wing. I suggest y'all don't either, especially, given what we know RJ's work ethic is.

There's his ceiling

Exactly... Let's ask Bucks fans how they feel about their organization taking the time to develop Middleton and then signing him to a huge, untradeable contract. Really worked out for them, right?

[thebuzzardman]

I don't think RJ is like Tatum but you get too emotionally attached to some dudes. Chillax.

I’m not the one making homer posts just to end up disappointed in the long term. So go ahead. I ain’t stopping you.

RJ Barrett can't get to Derozan's level? Come on. That's not being a homer. Derozan isn't some all time great.

He's a lot more skilled and athletic than RJ is though, that's for sure.

[Fury]

I’m not the one making homer posts just to end up disappointed in the long term. So go ahead. I ain’t stopping you.

RJ Barrett can't get to Derozan's level? Come on. That's not being a homer. Derozan isn't some all time great.

He's a lot more skilled and athletic than RJ is though, that's for sure.

Skilled at this point (2nd year) of their careers? I don't agree.

[thebuzzardman]

Wingo is so old, he's been following DeRozan from the womb

[Jimmit79]

DeRozan was athletic freak when he was drafted RJ is nothing like that.

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