N Y K wrote:WargamesX wrote:Why isn’t new coach an option? A lot of this teams issues are Thibs coaching related.....
I loved reading this today
Playoff losses too, but feel good about yourself.
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N Y K wrote:WargamesX wrote:Why isn’t new coach an option? A lot of this teams issues are Thibs coaching related.....
I loved reading this today
sol537 wrote:I'm not against a slow and steady approach.
1) S&T for Lonzo on a reasonable deal
2) Pick-up Frank's QO or sign him to a 1+1 team option deal
3) Draft two-way high IQ guys like Jared Butler and Juzang to bolster the bench and learn from the vets
4) Retain Rose, Taj, Noel on 1-year deals.
Lonzo / Rose / Draftee
RJ / IQ / Luca
Frank / Draftee
Randle / Obi
Mitch / Noel / Taj
We infuse the starting line-up with Mitch, Lonzo, and Frank. That gives Randle three near 40% shooters he can pass to (Frank, Lonzo, and RJ) and it gives Randle a true lob thread who has good hands (Mitch). It also bolsters our defense by adding three defensive upgrades in Mitch, Frank, and Lonzo so Thibs can set the tone early like we know he likes to do. I'm still a believer in Frank in a defined role (defensive stopper & 40% 3-point valve). Frank has also more passing and drive and kick potential than Reggie ever did. It's time to pass the torch. We should once again be a "solid" team with a ton of youth we can continue to develop while retaining cap flexibility to make a big splash the following year. I've always wanted to build a defensive team that can really lock most teams down and I think the above squad can do just that while still retaining a lethal bench mob that helps us win games.
My 2 cents.
NewKnicks wrote:offense wrote:lavine is overrated.
sol537 wrote:I think Lonzo will keep getting better over the years and one day become a really nice PG option. I don't think we'd need to overpay to get him if his father steers him our way. We'd just have to give up some assets in a S&T. PG's often take several years to hit their stride. I think Lonzo has that potential.
NewKnicks wrote:if we're counting on a Lavine coming here in 2 years we're in trouble. The Bulls didn't trade for Vuc to let Lavine walk. And there is no indication at all that he's looking to leave. He won't be coming here.
I think it's time to focus on things that could actually happen, not pipedreams with a .1% chance of happening.
Richard4444 wrote:NewKnicks wrote:Posted this in another thread and figured I would add it here too.
I wish I had the answers on how to close the gap. If there was some way to get Dame, I'm all in. Empty the cupboard and roll with Dame/Randle, and hope to get a third star. But that's not going to happen. I think Dame stays in Portland.
We are kind of locked into what we have at this moment. We just have to hope that we draft really well, and maybe get a starter level player out of one of our draft picks. We're keeping Randle (obviously), and then we have to hope that RJ becomes more than just a corner 3 and D guy as he continues to grow. I don't see RJ becoming anything more than a 3-4 on a championship roster. I know you disagree with that, and he's only 20 so I can't say you're going to be wrong. That's just my opinion.
So that said.. what do we do?
1. Make Randle earn his next contract next year. If he puts up the same numbers, the Knicks will have to give in and give him a bag. I get the idea of trying to sign him now to save a lot of money, but with that collapse against the Hawks, we just can't tie all that money up with him yet.
2. Hope RJ becomes a really, really good player
3. Hope IQ and Obi continue to get a lot better
4. What to do with Rose? One argument is we HAVE to re-sign him, because he's been our best player. But he's 32, and even he admits to getting tired toward the end. He's getting old and is not really a piece of the future. I'm starting to think it's better to let Rose walk. We're not winning any chips in the next 2-3 years, which is probably his window before he falls off the cliff. This won't be popular, but let him walk and roll with the youth.
5. Draft Ayo or Cooper. Personally, after watching Ayo during his whole career at U of I, I think he's a keeper. I really don't want Cooper, but we need more talent at the PG position, and he is talented. I just don't know if he can overcome being so short and not a good shooter at this point. So take Ayo with one of our picks.
6. Sign a PG free agent. And NOT Lonzo. We need someone with the ilk of a DRose. Someone who can break down defenses, and Lonzo is not that type of player. It's going to cost a LOT of money to sign him, and let's keep that money for other players. We don't yet know which PG's might be available in a few months, No to Lowry as well, for the same reasons. We're not winning in the next 2-3 years, so there really is no purpose to sign him. If our FO is good, they can find a PG out there who is young, and has future potential to be a really good ball distributor and a shot maker. Maybe this is a player who is not getting a lot of time yet on another winning roster. If our FO is great at evaluating talent, they might be able to discover a gem out there.
7. If we package our picks to move up. How far can we get? If we can get into 7-12, we have a chance at finding a true difference maker in the draft. At this point I think I've settled on keeping both picks, as we simply lack talent. Take two players in the 20's, and hope we hit like we did with IQ
8. Thibs needs to add a young, brilliant offensive minded coach underneath. Maybe even someone to groom as his replacement (I know Thibs won't see it this way, obviously). But I like this idea. Some up and coming young assistant out there. Someone who can balance out Thibs old defensive, grind it out strategies. This wasn't Thibs fault, but he could use an infusion of 'new NBA' offensive strategies.
9. Pray the slow game works out. Unless we do get a chance at a Dame/Kawhi (I still don't think it can happen), just play the long game.
TLDR: Don't re-sign DRose. That might put us back in the lottery again, which is fine by me. Let RJ/Quick/Obi/Mitch grow for a few more years before going all in, unless some superstars pop onto the market at an unexpected time.
Agree on Lillard should stand pat. But I did not get excited about getting a player 31-year player that eats 40% of the salary cap, which will deplete the team of assets. Especially if we cant get a second star better than Randle.
1) If Randle accepts the extension, we have to extend him (105/4). It would be a good deal.
4) I dont see we giving up Rose. But we can try to lowball him. Offering only a 1-year contract.
5) We wont get a rookie to be the team's brain under Thibs. But I think Ayo can be a shooting/combo guard (he is tall and shoot well). Cooper is an awful option.
6) Nunn and Graham might be good options.
7) I don't think it's feasible to move to 7-12 range. It would waste too many picks to get a no sure prospect. Maybe we can move to 13-18 trading 19 and 21 (maybe with other asset). But it would only be interesting if someone really special drops.
8) We will not build a team to tank. We will be pushed to win now bu fans, media, owner, Front Office, players. If we get a disappointing beginning to the season, we will trade.
offense wrote:NewKnicks wrote:offense wrote:lavine is overrated.
Truth hurts.
NewKnicks wrote:offense wrote:NewKnicks wrote:
Truth hurts.
Depends on which 'truth' we're talking about. The real truth, which by looking at his numbers this year everyone can see, or your truth, which has no truth in it.
WargamesX wrote:NewKnicks wrote:if we're counting on a Lavine coming here in 2 years we're in trouble. The Bulls didn't trade for Vuc to let Lavine walk. And there is no indication at all that he's looking to leave. He won't be coming here.
I think it's time to focus on things that could actually happen, not pipedreams with a .1% chance of happening.
Idk their roster is sort of bad outside of Vuc. Coby is a gunner and overlaps with Zach, Thaddeus is a good piece (but Randle has a better version of his game) they never figured out how to use Markkenan, and Wendell regressed. I like Pat Will but he is a few seasons away from his peak. They probably will add Lonzo, who does fit but we got to see if he can be consistent. None of this fixes the defensive issues either because the majority of the roster aren’t good defenders. Also, they gave up a mid lottery pick.
So behind the scenes Vuc really starts to make sense for the Bulls if you consider that he has the same agent as Zach and the trade was done from the “take care of the money” aspect. Flipside RJ has the same agent too and he and Zach (and Beal) work out. It’s far from a guarantee, but we have seen repeatedly how these business and training relationships factor into guys going to certain teams before. For both Zach and Beal the Knicks might be the best chance they have to be on good teams during their primes and get paid. They would come here and be the 1 a scorer with a team that has the second and third scorers, plays defense, and has a decent bench. Basically for the first time I can remember, the Knicks would be a good location. The biggest issue they need to worry about this off-season is starting PG. I like Nunn for them the most because he is undervalued by Miami due to Tyler Herro and Oladipo.
sol537 wrote:I'm not against a slow and steady approach.
1) S&T for Lonzo on a reasonable deal
2) Pick-up Frank's QO or sign him to a 1+1 team option deal
3) Draft two-way high IQ guys like Jared Butler and Juzang to bolster the bench and learn from the vets
4) Retain Rose, Taj, Noel on 1-year deals.
Lonzo / Rose / Draftee
RJ / IQ / Luca
Frank / Draftee
Randle / Obi
Mitch / Noel / Taj
We infuse the starting line-up with Mitch, Lonzo, and Frank. That gives Randle three near 40% shooters he can pass to (Frank, Lonzo, and RJ) and it gives Randle a true lob thread who has good hands (Mitch). It also bolsters our defense by adding three defensive upgrades in Mitch, Frank, and Lonzo so Thibs can set the tone early like we know he likes to do. I'm still a believer in Frank in a defined role (defensive stopper & 40% 3-point valve). Frank has also more passing and drive and kick potential than Reggie ever did. It's time to pass the torch. We should once again be a "solid" team with a ton of youth we can continue to develop while retaining cap flexibility to make a big splash the following year. I've always wanted to build a defensive team that can really lock most teams down and I think the above squad can do just that while still retaining a lethal bench mob that helps us win games.
My 2 cents.
robillionaire wrote:NewKnicks wrote:offense wrote:Truth hurts.
Depends on which 'truth' we're talking about. The real truth, which by looking at his numbers this year everyone can see, or your truth, which has no truth in it.
How’s his playoff numbers
ENYK wrote:moocow007 wrote:ENYK wrote:
Basically this.... The Knicks should try to move Randle for whatever they can get in a first round pick this year or a young building block...
I predict it's only going to get worse from here. Randle looks mentally broken out there. He might put up decent numbers next year but this upward trajectory is going to start to trend downward. Fans are back, and teams know how to stop him in pretty spectacular fashion now.
And do what? start again?
What is the ceiling for the Knicks with playoff Randle?
Some of you are acting like we're talking about blowing up a prime Shaq and Kobe based team.
This team has shown it does not belong in the playoffs. Adding Lonzo (or Lavine or Beal, etc.) will only marginally improve that.
We're not really starting all over if we haven't committed long term money to Randle and the other assortment of mediocre to bad spare parts that comprise the core (Rose is an exception, he should be on a contender playing for 6th man of the year). We're just deciding to go youth development over maxing out the salary cap for, at best, an appearance in the conference semis.
thebuzzardman wrote:sol537 wrote:I think Lonzo will keep getting better over the years and one day become a really nice PG option. I don't think we'd need to overpay to get him if his father steers him our way. We'd just have to give up some assets in a S&T. PG's often take several years to hit their stride. I think Lonzo has that potential.
I'd sign him and play him at SF instead of Bullocks.
Then get another scoring, attacking PG to share the minutes with Rose.
ENYK wrote:Ray Williams wrote:knickstape4ever wrote:I wasn't the biggest Obi fan. still think he moves awkwardly/looks hunched-back, and doesn't have a handle or many post moves, very inconsistent shooter, avg. defender, tho better than I expected
....that being said I've been more impressed w/ him lately and if he's hitting his 3's, I can kinda see him as a John Collins-type (poor man's Collins ). the thing I like about Obi tho is that he's not ball-dominant at all
I personally don't think this FO drafted Obi to be a 10-15 min/g role player. I imagine they envisioned him becoming the starting PF and moving on from Randle. otherwise not taking a PG like Haliburton would look like an even worse decision if they drafted Obi to be a role player
not advocating that we trade Randle (hard to trade away an all-star given this teams lack of success in recent years), but it's something to consider. I wouldn't give him the MAX since that should be reserved for the games truly elite players. the return on a Randle trade would have to be too good to pass up, but it would allow them to change their style of play, go more up-tempo, play in transition (which RJ, Obi and Mitch thrive in)
Randle for Haliburton.
Basically this.... The Knicks should try to move Randle for whatever they can get in a first round pick this year or a young building block...
I predict it's only going to get worse from here. Randle looks mentally broken out there. He might put up decent numbers next year but this upward trajectory is going to start to trend downward. Fans are back, and teams know how to stop him in pretty spectacular fashion now.