2021 Offseason & Offseason Grades

[payitforward]

I think GSW will be moving that Twolves pick. If it moves up from 6 to Top 4, then they wait until 2022 to get the pick and will probably wait until the deadline to make a move. But if the pick stays at 6/7, then they probably move it draft night.

I think GSW should trade Wiseman and one of their picks for Myles Turner (not sure if it will cost the #6 or just the #14). The addition of Turner and Klay to their current roster should make them formidable. Turner is the perfect center for them because he is a rim protector who can offset Draymond's inability to shoot. Turner's lackluster rebounding will be offset by Draymond's good rebounding from the PF position. I think the Warriors with Turner could make one more title run if Klay is 90% of his former self.

Lol, Great Minds... that was the exact trade I had in mind. To be exact, I was thinking of a Wiggins/Wiseman/7 for Turner/Levert/Justin Holiday/13

GSW gets Turner (You nailed the reasoning), Levert as 2nd ball handler, and Holiday as the 3& D Wiggins replacement.
They then have 13 & 14 to add a PG and Wing (Giddey & Wagner).

Curry / Giddey
Levert / Poole
Klay / Holiday
Draymond / Wagner
Turner / Looney

That is a dangerous, High IQ team that moves the ball and plays defense

Wow -- how terrific!

But... would Indy value Wiseman high enough to go for this?

[closg00]

At-least we know Brad has no intentions on leaving
https://sports.yahoo.com/bradley-beal-plans-recruit-free-140936763.html

[nate33]

I think GSW will be moving that Twolves pick. If it moves up from 6 to Top 4, then they wait until 2022 to get the pick and will probably wait until the deadline to make a move. But if the pick stays at 6/7, then they probably move it draft night.

I think GSW should trade Wiseman and one of their picks for Myles Turner (not sure if it will cost the #6 or just the #14). The addition of Turner and Klay to their current roster should make them formidable. Turner is the perfect center for them because he is a rim protector who can offset Draymond's inability to shoot. Turner's lackluster rebounding will be offset by Draymond's good rebounding from the PF position. I think the Warriors with Turner could make one more title run if Klay is 90% of his former self.

That is an absolutely awful deal for Golden St. The Warriors can sign Noel, McGee, Howard, or Kanter to bolster their frontcourt. Perhaps they can get Horford for Oubre (S&T).

There is no reason for Golden St to give up Wiseman AND a lotto pick for a guy who has never even made an All-star team.

Turner was 5th in DPOY voting 2 years ago and finished 9th this year (despite missing a ton of games). He is one of the better defensive centers in the game. But what makes him unique is that he is a top shelf defender while also being a solid shooter. Golden State needs a guy like that more than just about anyone else because they have a power forward who can't shoot at all and he really bogs down the offense. Bringing Turner in would unlock all of the "death lineup" stuff they used to do when they went small with Draymond at center, only now they can do it without going small.

I think the trade makes a ton of sense for Golden State. I guess where people differ is on how one values Wiseman. I don't think he is much more than a filler contract. He's a terrible player right now and doesn't look like he will be very good for a couple of years. By the time he gets legitimately good (if that ever happens), he will be a free agent and will cost a fortune.

All that said, it's possible that someone might value Wiseman as more than just filler. Maybe if the trade becomes a 3-way where Wiseman is laundered to a 3rd team and they send something nice to Indy, the deal could make more sense and only the late pick or no pick at all would need to be included.

[SA37]

I think GSW should trade Wiseman and one of their picks for Myles Turner (not sure if it will cost the #6 or just the #14). The addition of Turner and Klay to their current roster should make them formidable. Turner is the perfect center for them because he is a rim protector who can offset Draymond's inability to shoot. Turner's lackluster rebounding will be offset by Draymond's good rebounding from the PF position. I think the Warriors with Turner could make one more title run if Klay is 90% of his former self.

That is an absolutely awful deal for Golden St. The Warriors can sign Noel, McGee, Howard, or Kanter to bolster their frontcourt. Perhaps they can get Horford for Oubre (S&T).

There is no reason for Golden St to give up Wiseman AND a lotto pick for a guy who has never even made an All-star team.

Turner was 5th in DPOY voting 2 years ago and finished 9th this year (despite missing a ton of games). He is one of the better defensive centers in the game. But what makes him unique is that he is a top shelf defender while also being a solid shooter. Golden State needs a guy like that more than just about anyone else because they have a power forward who can't shoot at all and he really bogs down the offense. Bringing Turner in would unlock all of the "death lineup" stuff they used to do when they went small with Draymond at center, only now they can do it without going small.

I think the trade makes a ton of sense for Golden State. I guess where people differ is on how one values Wiseman. I don't think he is much more than a filler contract. He's a terrible player right now and doesn't look like he will be very good for a couple of years. By the time he gets legitimately good (if that ever happens), he will be a free agent and will cost a fortune.

All that said, it's possible that someone might value Wiseman as more than just filler. Maybe if the trade becomes a 3-way where Wiseman is laundered to a 3rd team and they send something nice to Indy, the deal could make more sense and only the late pick or no pick at all would need to be included.

On one hand you’re saying Wiseman is a « filler contract » but on the other saying Wiseman+14 will get you one of the most complete centers in the game who excels on defense. If teams believe Wiseman is a « filler contract », it really doesn’t make sense to trade for him. Of course, if Golden St believes Wiseman is a bust, then they’d be geniuses for getting someone like Turner for him.

That said, I do agree Wiseman is still 2-3 years from becoming the player the Warriors hope he’ll become. However, I do think Golden St believes he is special.

While it’s true Myles Turner would be an excellent fit on the Warriors’ squad, it is worth noting the Warriors won titles with their frontcourt being some combo of Varejão, Bogut, Speights, Looney, and Javale McGee. I think they can replicate that with some combo of Wiseman, Looney, McGee, Noel, Howard, Millsap, Marc Gasol, or Kanter. DeAndre Jordan, Montrezl Harrell, Al Hordord, and Ibaka may even eventally become available.

[payitforward]

I think GSW should trade Wiseman and one of their picks for Myles Turner (not sure if it will cost the #6 or just the #14). The addition of Turner and Klay to their current roster should make them formidable. Turner is the perfect center for them because he is a rim protector who can offset Draymond's inability to shoot. Turner's lackluster rebounding will be offset by Draymond's good rebounding from the PF position. I think the Warriors with Turner could make one more title run if Klay is 90% of his former self.

That is an absolutely awful deal for Golden St. The Warriors can sign Noel, McGee, Howard, or Kanter to bolster their frontcourt. Perhaps they can get Horford for Oubre (S&T).

There is no reason for Golden St to give up Wiseman AND a lotto pick for a guy who has never even made an All-star team.

Turner was 5th in DPOY voting 2 years ago and finished 9th this year (despite missing a ton of games). He is one of the better defensive centers in the game. But what makes him unique is that he is a top shelf defender while also being a solid shooter. Golden State needs a guy like that more than just about anyone else because they have a power forward who can't shoot at all and he really bogs down the offense. Bringing Turner in would unlock all of the "death lineup" stuff they used to do when they went small with Draymond at center, only now they can do it without going small.

I think the trade makes a ton of sense for Golden State. I guess where people differ is on how one values Wiseman. I don't think he is much more than a filler contract. He's a terrible player right now and doesn't look like he will be very good for a couple of years. By the time he gets legitimately good (if that ever happens), he will be a free agent and will cost a fortune.

All that said, it's possible that someone might value Wiseman as more than just filler. Maybe if the trade becomes a 3-way where Wiseman is laundered to a 3rd team and they send something nice to Indy, the deal could make more sense and only the late pick or no pick at all would need to be included.

Given that Wiseman was the #2 pick 8 months ago, is a tremendous physical talent, & is still just a kid, I suppose he will be valued very highly -- which is what makes this trade feasible.

Of course there is some risk: Wiseman might be a bust or he might become a star. If the latter, GS is giving up a lot of future value. But, nate's point is -- specifically -- about *now.* GS "could make one more title run...."

In that sense, if Wiseman does live up to his potential, & GS doesn't get present value in terms of a title or at least a shot at one, sure, it would wind up an awful deal for them.

That's what makes it such an interesting idea -- a lot to think about. Very cool, nate!

[dckingsfan]

Give that Scott Brooks is "likely to return".

My next step is to bring back zero players that are under 6'4. The next step is to look for a forward that can take and demands the ball.

I would add that 3rd C so that Brooks can go back to that as the three headed monster (also assuming it will take time for Bryant to get back to where he needs to be).

We might be able to grab a slot in the 5-8 range.

[mhd]

Give that Scott Brooks is "likely to return".

My next step is to bring back zero players that are under 6'4. The next step is to look for a forward that can take and demands the ball.

I would add that 3rd C so that Brooks can go back to that as the three headed monster (also assuming it will take time for Bryant to get back to where he needs to be).

We might be able to grab a slot in the 5-8 range.

LOL, I like Neto b/c he's a savvy vet, but Brooks would continue with the 3 guard lineup regardless. We have to Brooks-proof the roster.

[Frichuela]

Give that Scott Brooks is "likely to return".

My next step is to bring back zero players that are under 6'4. The next step is to look for a forward that can take and demands the ball.

I would add that 3rd C so that Brooks can go back to that as the three headed monster (also assuming it will take time for Bryant to get back to where he needs to be).

We might be able to grab a slot in the 5-8 range.

Indeed. This is such a so Wiz outcome...how pathetic

[9 and 20]

Give that Scott Brooks is "likely to return".

My next step is to bring back zero players that are under 6'4. The next step is to look for a forward that can take and demands the ball.

I would add that 3rd C so that Brooks can go back to that as the three headed monster (also assuming it will take time for Bryant to get back to where he needs to be).

We might be able to grab a slot in the 5-8 range.

LOL, I like Neto b/c he's a savvy vet, but Brooks would continue with the 3 guard lineup regardless. We have to Brooks-proof the roster.

Brooks couldn't make it work when he had Durant and Harden next to Westbrook. Not sure what chance Tommy Sheppard has to put guys around Russ better than those two.

[9 and 20]

Give that Scott Brooks is "likely to return".

My next step is to bring back zero players that are under 6'4. The next step is to look for a forward that can take and demands the ball.

I would add that 3rd C so that Brooks can go back to that as the three headed monster (also assuming it will take time for Bryant to get back to where he needs to be).

We might be able to grab a slot in the 5-8 range.

Indeed. This is such a so Wiz outcome...how pathetic

Bring me all the sadness feels. G-Wiz seppuku - the essence is DC basketball fandom!

[Rand McNally]

I think GSW will be moving that Twolves pick. If it moves up from 6 to Top 4, then they wait until 2022 to get the pick and will probably wait until the deadline to make a move. But if the pick stays at 6/7, then they probably move it draft night.

I think GSW should trade Wiseman and one of their picks for Myles Turner (not sure if it will cost the #6 or just the #14). The addition of Turner and Klay to their current roster should make them formidable. Turner is the perfect center for them because he is a rim protector who can offset Draymond's inability to shoot. Turner's lackluster rebounding will be offset by Draymond's good rebounding from the PF position. I think the Warriors with Turner could make one more title run if Klay is 90% of his former self.

Lol, Great Minds... that was the exact trade I had in mind. To be exact, I was thinking of a Wiggins/Wiseman/7 for Turner/Levert/Justin Holiday/13

GSW gets Turner (You nailed the reasoning), Levert as 2nd ball handler, and Holiday as the 3& D Wiggins replacement.
They then have 13 & 14 to add a PG and Wing (Giddey & Wagner).

Curry / Giddey
Levert / Poole
Klay / Holiday
Draymond / Wagner
Turner / Looney

That is a dangerous, High IQ team that moves the ball and plays defense

I think there's an opportunity here for the Wizards to make the deal better for both teams.

I dont think Indiana will take Wiggins. Their ethos is just not to have max players unless they are superstars, which Wiggins is....not. They want to be as competitive as possible but always need to control costs. Obviously Wiseman is super attractive to them because of his upside and that he's cost controlled for so long.

Turner is great for GSW for reasons stated by others but they still have a depth problem. So, the Wizards should insert themselves by taking Wiggins and a pick package (either the Minn pick OR the GSW pick and 2 seconds) for Bertans, Bryant and Hutchinston.It would look like this:

GSW In: Turner, Bertans, Justin Holiday
GSW Out: Wiggins, Wiseman, aforementioned pick package

Indy In: Wiseman, Bryant (exp), Hutch
Indy out: Turner, J. Holiday

DC In: Wiggins, GSW pick package
DC out: Bertans, Bryant, Hutch

GSW's Why: Get back 3 rotation players who are all great fits. Bertans can be on the court with 2-3 excellent defenders at all times and 1-2 all-time great shooters who create a ton of gravity and open shots for him; he'd be deadly. Holiday is a needed tough veteran swing defender who can knock down shots. They get way more productivity for the money.

Indy's Why: Bryant is expiring and a nice bridge to Wise the Prize. Teams like Indy don't get shots at talents like Wiseman very often. Plus, it creates more prized financial flexibility for them.

DC's why: Better fit now while stocking up assets for the future. While Wiggins isn't remotely worth his contract, the timing of it lines with Westbrook's and clarifies the Wizards window for whatever it is they are doing. And while Wiggins isn't good, he's not terrible and a better fit with Rui and Deni than Bertans. The financial burden here is worth it due to the ability to build for the future with the pick(s) while also creating a more balanced roster in the short term.

[dckingsfan]

Nice post Rand McNally!

[nate33]

I think GSW should trade Wiseman and one of their picks for Myles Turner (not sure if it will cost the #6 or just the #14). The addition of Turner and Klay to their current roster should make them formidable. Turner is the perfect center for them because he is a rim protector who can offset Draymond's inability to shoot. Turner's lackluster rebounding will be offset by Draymond's good rebounding from the PF position. I think the Warriors with Turner could make one more title run if Klay is 90% of his former self.

Lol, Great Minds... that was the exact trade I had in mind. To be exact, I was thinking of a Wiggins/Wiseman/7 for Turner/Levert/Justin Holiday/13

GSW gets Turner (You nailed the reasoning), Levert as 2nd ball handler, and Holiday as the 3& D Wiggins replacement.
They then have 13 & 14 to add a PG and Wing (Giddey & Wagner).

Curry / Giddey
Levert / Poole
Klay / Holiday
Draymond / Wagner
Turner / Looney

That is a dangerous, High IQ team that moves the ball and plays defense

I think there's an opportunity here for the Wizards to make the deal better for both teams.

I dont think Indiana will take Wiggins. Their ethos is just not to have max players unless they are superstars, which Wiggins is....not. They want to be as competitive as possible but always need to control costs. Obviously Wiseman is super attractive to them because of his upside and that he's cost controlled for so long.

Turner is great for GSW for reasons stated by others but they still have a depth problem. So, the Wizards should insert themselves by taking Wiggins and a pick package (either the Minn pick OR the GSW pick and 2 seconds) for Bertans, Bryant and Hutchinston.It would look like this:

GSW In: Turner, Bertans, Justin Holiday
GSW Out: Wiggins, Wiseman, aforementioned pick package

Indy In: Wiseman, Bryant (exp), Hutch
Indy out: Turner, J. Holiday

DC In: Wiggins, GSW pick package
DC out: Bertans, Bryant, Hutch

GSW's Why: Get back 3 rotation players who are all great fits. Bertans can be on the court with 2-3 excellent defenders at all times and 1-2 all-time great shooters who create a ton of gravity and open shots for him; he'd be deadly. Holiday is a needed tough veteran swing defender who can knock down shots. They get way more productivity for the money.

Indy's Why: Bryant is expiring and a nice bridge to Wise the Prize. Teams like Indy don't get shots at talents like Wiseman very often. Plus, it creates more prized financial flexibility for them.

DC's why: Better fit now while stocking up assets for the future. While Wiggins isn't remotely worth his contract, the timing of it lines with Westbrook's and clarifies the Wizards window for whatever it is they are doing. And while Wiggins isn't good, he's not terrible and a better fit with Rui and Deni than Bertans. The financial burden here is worth it due to the ability to build for the future with the pick(s) while also creating a more balanced roster in the short term.

I think Indy will need to get some of those picks. They shouldn't all go to us. Indy is giving up the best player in the deal.

[payitforward]

Really the above trade should be discussed in the trade thread.

Have we either come to agreement. or even defined some opposed points of view. on the core questions of the off season, the overall "what should we be doing?" questions.

It's kind of hard to do that in the case of this team & season, it seems to me. After all, a 17-32 team faces a different set of questions from a 17-6 team. & a 34-38 team is no doubt different as well. So... what kind of goals should we be setting for the off season, I wonder?

1. I'm sure there are some "all in" voices on the board, but I don't recall anyone suggesting a specific set of moves along those lines.

2. OTOH, maybe there's someone who looks at the way Russ has re-established his value & sees an opportunity to accelerate something close to a total rebuild by moving him (maybe Beal too?) for maximum future value (young players & lots of picks).

3. What if you're an incrementalist -- just keep making intelligent moves that add value to the roster. Fine, but in that case what should we be doing in particular?

As I say, it's far from obvious!

Assuming Ish is gone, we obviously need a back up PG. But, no one has suggested any possibilities yet.

How about the 2? Are we prepared to roll with Brad starting & Garrison Mathews backing him up? Or, do we think we will get a guy in the draft who can help fill that backup role right away (Butler? Duarte?...). Neto is kind of a valuable utility player -- should we re-sign him?

As to the 3, obviously we need good progress from Deni. But, he is extremely young. &, who knows, he might actually wind up a 4. Anyway, it's obvious that we need a solid 3 & D wing -- or, if that's not what we need, then what is it?

This is where the discussion of acquiring Wiggins fits in, obviously -- but that is such a long shot! What are other options?

We are without a doubt committed to Hachimura at the 4. Plus, if Bertans remains a Wizard (which certainly seems likely!), we're not really in the market for a backup either PF -- especially as we seem pretty sure to keep Gill. & Deni is in play here as well, at least long-term.

It seems like we feel pretty well set at Center with Gafford, Bryant & (maybe? probably?) an inexpensive vet as a 3d C (Lopez?).

So, what should this off-season be about?

Should we be seeking that 3d star we can't afford, pay him anyway, & compete for a title -- i.e. is that realistic even if we assume Ted would head far into lux-tax-land?

Is there an opportunity to find a guy in free-agency who ups our strength at the 3 without being a break-the-bank player? Who are some candidates for that?

Should we commit to the draft or use our R1 pick as a tool to make a move along one of the 2 lines just above?

What do you think?

[dckingsfan]

I "think" (opinion) that this is going to be an incremental process at least through next year and probably two. That means we get Brooks back with all that he brings. I am guessing he is going to agree to a complete change in his assistant coaches.

As far as current contracts. I think they bring Gill back but let Homesley go. I don't think they give Bonga a QO. I think they make a QO to Mathews and he stays.

PG: Westbrook/??/??
SG: Beal/Mathews/??
SF: Avdija/Hutchison
PF: Hachimura/Bertans/Gill
C: Gafford/Bryant/FA

With the 14th pick, I think we take Giddey.

PG: Westbrook/Giddey/??
SG: Beal/Mathews/??
SF: Avdija/Hutchison
PF: Hachimura/Bertans/Gill
C: Gafford/Bryant/FA

And here is where hope goes to die - I hope that Tommy doesn't bring in a small PG. Rather he goes after a big guard that can get their own shot. Although maybe not:
https://www.spotrac.com/nba/free-agents/ufa/shooting-guard/

Costs are:
Matthews: ~ 3.0
Giddey: ~2.7
Center FA: ~ 2.0
Big Guard: ??

[pcbothwel]

As I await the final HC decision, I'll contribute accordingly. Lol
Another sleeper MLE candidate: Jarred Vanderbilt.
22 y/o RFA for TWolves. Terrific fit between Rui & Bryant on the wing as a PF. Can guard 3 positions, rebound, defend, and get out in transition. I see a Gafford type breakthrough in some ways. He is extremely disruptive and doesnt need the ball in his hands.

Undervalued as he isnt a shooter, but averaged 3.5 STOCKS per 36 and a +6.1 On/Off (RAPTOR and RPM like him as well). He's a great fit with Towns, but hopefully they swing bigger and dont match a strong offer.

It sounds crazy, but he could be a Jonathan Isaac type forward. He is 13 months younger than Rui and I think he can be a key cog on a playoff team.

Lol.. what am I saying. We'll trade Bertans + 15 for Harrison Barnes or Kuzma. Because thats what we do.

[dckingsfan]

As I await the final HC decision, I'll contribute accordingly. Lol
Another sleeper MLE candidate: Jarred Vanderbilt.
22 y/o RFA for TWolves. Terrific fit between Rui & Bryant on the wing as a PF. Can guard 3 positions, rebound, defend, and get out in transition. I see a Gafford type breakthrough in some ways. He is extremely disruptive and doesnt need the ball in his hands.

Undervalued as he isnt a shooter, but averaged 3.5 STOCKS per 36 and a +6.1 On/Off (RAPTOR and RPM like him as well). He's a great fit with Towns, but hopefully they swing bigger and dont match a strong offer.

It sounds crazy, but he could be a Jonathan Isaac type forward. He is 13 months younger than Rui and I think he can be a key cog on a playoff team.

Lol.. what am I saying. We'll trade Bertans + 15 for Harrison Barnes or Kuzma. Because thats what we do.

- so we end up with

PG: Westbrook/???/??
SG: Beal/Mathews/??
SF: Kuzma/Avdija/Hutchison
PF: Hachimura/Vanderbilt/Gill
C: Gafford/Bryant/FA

[payitforward]

Among the SG UFAs, I like Sterling Brown a whole lot. Far & away my first target, & I would sign him for 3 years. But... he might get a sizable offer from another team.

[payitforward]

As I await the final HC decision, I'll contribute accordingly. Lol
Another sleeper MLE candidate: Jarred Vanderbilt.
22 y/o RFA for TWolves. Terrific fit between Rui & Bryant on the wing as a PF. Can guard 3 positions, rebound, defend, and get out in transition. I see a Gafford type breakthrough in some ways. He is extremely disruptive and doesnt need the ball in his hands.

Undervalued as he isnt a shooter, but averaged 3.5 STOCKS per 36 and a +6.1 On/Off (RAPTOR and RPM like him as well). He's a great fit with Towns, but hopefully they swing bigger and dont match a strong offer.

It sounds crazy, but he could be a Jonathan Isaac type forward. He is 13 months younger than Rui and I think he can be a key cog on a playoff team.

Lol.. what am I saying. We'll trade Bertans + 15 for Harrison Barnes or Kuzma. Because thats what we do.

I love Vanderbilt, but Minny will keep him.

[Ruzious]

As I await the final HC decision, I'll contribute accordingly. Lol
Another sleeper MLE candidate: Jarred Vanderbilt.
22 y/o RFA for TWolves. Terrific fit between Rui & Bryant on the wing as a PF. Can guard 3 positions, rebound, defend, and get out in transition. I see a Gafford type breakthrough in some ways. He is extremely disruptive and doesnt need the ball in his hands.

Undervalued as he isnt a shooter, but averaged 3.5 STOCKS per 36 and a +6.1 On/Off (RAPTOR and RPM like him as well). He's a great fit with Towns, but hopefully they swing bigger and dont match a strong offer.

It sounds crazy, but he could be a Jonathan Isaac type forward. He is 13 months younger than Rui and I think he can be a key cog on a playoff team.

Lol.. what am I saying. We'll trade Bertans + 15 for Harrison Barnes or Kuzma. Because thats what we do.

Nice call - though he's always had durability issues - even when he went to Kentucky - another thing he has in common with Isaac. We really do need a talented defensive forward like him. Maybe we give Minny some incentive to not match the offer sheet - not sure what that would be, though. If he ever develops a jump shot, watch out. When KY got him, they were even talking about him being a playmaker who could distribute the ball.