Tank World Order (4.0)

[Steelo Green]

Again - people getting all up on predictions. Predictions which everyone has gotten right and wrong.

Everyone predicting the Nets win were wrong about the Celtics.

Pascal and Fred struggling?

Raptors taking a big step back last season was another prediction the “Empire” was right on the money with. With many people saying we had all these injuries last year and still were the 2 seed.

So again how far down the rabbit hole do we go?

What we can say is people changing history and making false narratives about what has occurred.

Let’s start a predictions thread if people are so inclined. A fruitless endeavour though fun nonetheless.

It was fun when TWO was started two weeks in and laughed at and then the same laughers couldn’t wait for losses.

Revisionist history or ignorant history is always fun.

[Raps in 4]

Posters from both camps are going to be in total shambles if/when we land a top-4 pick.

Team mediocre because we will draft a difference maker and team mediocre doesn't believe in building through the draft. Accepting that building through the draft is highly successful is going to be hard for a lot of people.

tWo because we will get a top-4 pick without being a bottom-4 team because the new odds don't give a **** where you end up in the standings. Accepting that it's okay that we won more than 16 games this year is going to be tough for many on here.

[Johnny Bball]

Posters from both camps are going to be in total shambles if/when we land a top-4 pick.

Team mediocre because we will draft a difference maker and team mediocre doesn't believe in building through the draft. Accepting that building through the draft is highly successful is going to be hard for a lot of people.

tWo because we will get a top-4 pick without being a bottom-4 team because the new odds don't give a **** where you end up in the standings. Accepting that it's okay that we won more than 16 games this year is going to be tough for many on here.

How do people make this **** up? Literally everyone thinks the draft is a big part of any teams success and nobody is going to have any hard time with any of it. As for winning more than 16 games, it's still being argued when it doesn't even matter anymore.

On another note...

Now that I think about it....How the **** is this thread actually still open. It gets bumped when the conversation is long past expired and the season is over while, all that's being argued is asinine minutiae. Its become nothing but a giant circle jerk of veiled and non-veiled insults about half of the forum, calling people mediocre etc., trying to create even more division for god knows what reason, while rubbing to the glory that you had one single solitary idea partially right for an entire season. or maybe for part of a season. Or maybe you didn't. Who literally cares. That's the last 4 weeks of this.

[Los_29]

Posters from both camps are going to be in total shambles if/when we land a top-4 pick.

Team mediocre because we will draft a difference maker and team mediocre doesn't believe in building through the draft. Accepting that building through the draft is highly successful is going to be hard for a lot of people.

tWo because we will get a top-4 pick without being a bottom-4 team because the new odds don't give a **** where you end up in the standings. Accepting that it's okay that we won more than 16 games this year is going to be tough for many on here.

I'm not sure why anyone would say to not build through the draft when we've drafted Pascal, OG and signed FVV as an undrafted free agent. I don't think anyone says to not build through the draft. I think people just don't want to gut their team with the hopes of lucking out in the lottery as this has proven to be an extremely ineffective way to build a team.

[OakleyDokely]

Is it still possible to tank in the offseason when no games are being played?

[Danny1616]

Posters from both camps are going to be in total shambles if/when we land a top-4 pick.

Team mediocre because we will draft a difference maker and team mediocre doesn't believe in building through the draft. Accepting that building through the draft is highly successful is going to be hard for a lot of people.

tWo because we will get a top-4 pick without being a bottom-4 team because the new odds don't give a **** where you end up in the standings. Accepting that it's okay that we won more than 16 games this year is going to be tough for many on here.

Who said this?

The argument was that team culture, development, strong scouting, smart management, good coaching usually trumps tanking merely for the sake of tanking.

And many of us have said that if clearly there we had no real shot at the playoffs at the halfway point it would make sense to tank. By March, a lot of us were in favor of trading Lowry/Powell and tanking when we were 10 games below .500. Also, in a season were our main players have major injuries, it also makes sense to tank. If you are a team like Orlando that for 4-5 years straight are a treadmill team that finishes 8-10 every year, then yes of course it makes sense to dismantle the core and tank.

Nobody said that draft isn't a great to build a team. We literally drafted Delon, Powell, OG, Siakam and signed Fred undrafted without a lottery pick. Poeltl was our only lottery pick in 8 seasons. Some of those guys are key pieces going forward and others were used to trade for Kawhi and Gasol.

So no, nobody is against getting the highest draft pick possible if that's what the circumstances give. But to completely dismantle a perennial 50 win team just for sake of hoping to find a top 5 MVP caliber player (when the odds are extremely low), and even tougher to keep that player in free agency, is in my opinion, not the best strategy.

Don't paint the argument in black and white.

Saying stuff like "team mediocore doesn't believe in building through the draft" is an extremely misleading characterization of the stance of those who don't necessarily agree with completely dismantling teams and tanking for the highest possible draft pick. There are exceptions of course, as I listed above.

[Inevitable]

Anyone got lottery mock drafts for next year, we might be right back here.

[NotMyKawhi]

Anyone got lottery mock drafts for next year, we might be right back here.

Chet, palolo, hardy, Nzosa are the main top guys but it's deep and a really good canadian prospect as well, Caleb Houstan. top 10 talent. Great international class too

[Lord_Zedd]

Damn, With Siakam being out for the start of the year, if Adrian Griffin sticks around as an assistant we might end up drafting his son next year.

[Pooh_Jeter]

Raptors are going to have to pivot now. This is why those extra assets would have been so valuable. Now you're backed into a corner either desperately trying to fill the hole Siakam leaves or trying to sell when your best piece has already been cashed in and Lowry won't return any sort of meaningful asset.

May 1st: 40 minutes
May 2nd: 38:27
May 4th: 41:41
May 6th: 42:13
May 8th: 30:18 then tears his labrum

This is inexcusable and exactly why TWO was advocating for a full on tank, not these half measures.

[720]

Posters from both camps are going to be in total shambles if/when we land a top-4 pick.

Team mediocre because we will draft a difference maker and team mediocre doesn't believe in building through the draft. Accepting that building through the draft is highly successful is going to be hard for a lot of people.

tWo because we will get a top-4 pick without being a bottom-4 team because the new odds don't give a **** where you end up in the standings. Accepting that it's okay that we won more than 16 games this year is going to be tough for many on here.

Why would tWo be mad? We've known this team isn't it for most of the year (some before even the season started like Steelo and Vinbaker) and wanted the team to lose so we can draft as high as possible.

The lottery is a lottery, best we can do is lose as much as possible. After that let the lottery decide our fate.

[GreatWhiteStiff]

Thread reopened. Where dellabot at?

[JShuttlesworth]

^ I don't feel like we're 'backed into a corner'. This changes nothing really. If you want to make the playoffs, it isn't overly difficult to get into the play-in games with the bottom teams being so trash.

Flynn, Harris, Trent + 3 Draft Picks to go along with OG. All these players are under 25, it's clear Bobby / Masai have already started the process of building up our new young core. I would be surprised if either of Siakam or Fred are Raptors beyond their current contracts regardless.

If we're bad and end up in the lottery, it probably helps us long term, we need the talent. We aren't getting passed either of BKN / MIL / PHI in the first round regardless next year.

Maybe we can use this to build of Boucher's trade value and move him for a pick.

[tecumseh18]

Raptors are going to have to pivot now. This is why those extra assets would have been so valuable. Now you're backed into a corner either desperately trying to fill the hole Siakam leaves or trying to sell when your best piece has already been cashed in and Lowry won't return any sort of meaningful asset.

May 1st: 40 minutes
May 2nd: 38:27
May 4th: 41:41
May 6th: 42:13
May 8th: 30:18 then tears his labrum

This is inexcusable and exactly why TWO was advocating for a full on tank, not these half measures.

This post is a perfect example of how simple-minded TWO thinking is. Siakam - who is still developing as a player - was the only member of the core to play on May 8th (the loss to the motivated Grizzlies). Lowry, Fred and OG were out.

Raps were clearly trying to develop their players while losing as many games as possible. Siakam missed a lot of time this season, and needed the runs. Why is that obvious - and intelligent - strategy so hard for you to understand? Why do you have so little regard for Masai and the rest of the management team?

[Yeezus_]

Is it still possible to tank in the offseason when no games are being played?

I bet there are quite a few people that have their posts ready for this thread next season. I think we all know who they are

[Yeezus_]

Raptors are going to have to pivot now. This is why those extra assets would have been so valuable. Now you're backed into a corner either desperately trying to fill the hole Siakam leaves or trying to sell when your best piece has already been cashed in and Lowry won't return any sort of meaningful asset.

May 1st: 40 minutes
May 2nd: 38:27
May 4th: 41:41
May 6th: 42:13
May 8th: 30:18 then tears his labrum

This is inexcusable and exactly why TWO was advocating for a full on tank, not these half measures.

This post is a perfect example of how simple-minded TWO thinking is. Siakam - who is still developing as a player - was the only member of the core to play on May 8th (the loss to the motivated Grizzlies). Lowry, Fred and OG were out.

Raps were clearly trying to develop their players while losing as many games as possible. Siakam missed a lot of time this season, and needed the runs. Why is that obvious - and intelligent - strategy so hard for you to understand? Why do you have so little regard for Masai and the rest of the management team?

He's so narrow minded, it's crazy lol.

[Fairview4Life]

The lottery is a lottery, best we can do is lose as much as possible. After that let the lottery decide our fate.

The "debate"/yelling at each other always just boils down to what "as much as possible" actually means, and how to get there. Is it worth dumping everyone for nothing? Is it worth playing our best players 40mpg every game? Is there a middle ground? Is there any nuance at all that lets you develop some players on the current roster while also not killing the pick, in a lost year?

[Pooh_Jeter]

Raptors are going to have to pivot now. This is why those extra assets would have been so valuable. Now you're backed into a corner either desperately trying to fill the hole Siakam leaves or trying to sell when your best piece has already been cashed in and Lowry won't return any sort of meaningful asset.

May 1st: 40 minutes
May 2nd: 38:27
May 4th: 41:41
May 6th: 42:13
May 8th: 30:18 then tears his labrum

This is inexcusable and exactly why TWO was advocating for a full on tank, not these half measures.

This post is a perfect example of how simple-minded TWO thinking is. Siakam - who is still developing as a player - was the only member of the core to play on May 8th (the loss to the motivated Grizzlies). Lowry, Fred and OG were out.

Raps were clearly trying to develop their players while losing as many games as possible. Siakam missed a lot of time this season, and needed the runs. Why is that obvious - and intelligent - strategy so hard for you to understand? Why do you have so little regard for Masai and the rest of the management team?

Aren't you the guy who said FVV and Siakam had to keep playing in order to practice for b2b games? So the team was simultaneously keeping players out and training them for these games?

People make mistakes, no need for you to make up excuses for them especially when you contradict your own points.

[Pooh_Jeter]

Posters from both camps are going to be in total shambles if/when we land a top-4 pick.

Team mediocre because we will draft a difference maker and team mediocre doesn't believe in building through the draft. Accepting that building through the draft is highly successful is going to be hard for a lot of people.

tWo because we will get a top-4 pick without being a bottom-4 team because the new odds don't give a **** where you end up in the standings. Accepting that it's okay that we won more than 16 games this year is going to be tough for many on here.

Why would tWo be mad? We've known this team isn't it for most of the year (some before even the season started like Steelo and Vinbaker) and wanted the team to lose so we can draft as high as possible.

The lottery is a lottery, best we can do is lose as much as possible. After that let the lottery decide our fate.

I dont understand how people think anyone is rooting against the Raptors winning the lottery.

I think the Pels won the Zion lotto with the 10th best odds. That doesn't mean they had the best tank/rebuilding job in the league that year.

Process is what you can control, the ultimate lottery results you can't.

[Pooh_Jeter]

^ I don't feel like we're 'backed into a corner'. This changes nothing really. If you want to make the playoffs, it isn't overly difficult to get into the play-in games with the bottom teams being so trash.

Flynn, Harris, Trent + 3 Draft Picks to go along with OG. All these players are under 25, it's clear Bobby / Masai have already started the process of building up our new young core. I would be surprised if either of Siakam or Fred are Raptors beyond their current contracts regardless.

If we're bad and end up in the lottery, it probably helps us long term, we need the talent. We aren't getting passed either of BKN / MIL / PHI in the first round regardless next year.

Maybe we can use this to build of Boucher's trade value and move him for a pick.

Backed into a corner in terms of actually competing. Masai isn't interested in play in games and the young core assembled so far won't be all that impressive unless this draft is a home run.