Just how hot is Rick Carlisle's seat?

[EArl]

That championship made him a coach for life in Dallas. The people pushing this narrative are reading the situation completely wrong or don't know Cuban at all. He's probably the most loyal owner next to the Buss's as far as their front office/coaching staff is concerned.

I don't think the Lakers are loyal to their FO. Yes to their superstar players. There are other teams in which I include the Mavs as being loyal to their coaches and front office staff.

[Mr B]

Donnie Nelson needs to go before Carlisle. This is a GM/roster issue, not a coaching issue

Ive defended both Rick and Donnie but I’m starting to lean to the side that believe Donnie needs to go. Who does a Cuban replace him with though?

Carlisle isn’t and shouldn’t go anywhere. Cuban also already said his job is safe.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Nuntius]

You can't just bag on a coach for being "0-6 in the first round since 2011" without acknowledging his team wasn't favored to win those first round series and his good coaching was a big part of making the playoffs in the first place.

Especially when that team actually performs reasonably well in the playoffs while being the underdog. It would be different if he was getting swept every year but that's not the case.

[fast+forward]

That championship made him a coach for life in Dallas. The people pushing this narrative are reading the situation completely wrong or don't know Cuban at all. He's probably the most loyal owner next to the Buss's as far as their front office/coaching staff is concerned.

I don't think the Lakers are loyal to their FO. Yes to their superstar players. There are other teams in which I include the Mavs as being loyal to their coaches and front office staff.

Jerry West was GM from '82-'94
Mitch Kupchak was GM from '95-'16

I'd say that's pretty loyal...then you have Pat Riley, Del Harris, Phil Jackson and Luke Walton for far longer than they should've been loyal to him..

[Axl Rose]

His ass has frostbite.

[76ciology]

He’d be a great coach for the Celts

[cjmcallist]

I don’t think they should be championship contenders yet. I see the problem as they are going to have a very difficult time becoming championship contenders, because of the recent choices the front office has made.

But, they could pull some moves this summer and prove me wrong.

Well, I certainly understand that feeling and being quite concerned about it.

As far as I see it, the only mistake I see that really ensures things will be considerably otherwise is KP. And I struggle making too much of that one mistake, however big the scale of the consequences ends up being. The mindset with that trade was the same mindset that gave the franchise Doncic.

You wish Nelson had been a bit more careful with the contract of course, but someone else was going to max him if the Mavs didn't and everyone would have been furious if they let him go. It's a situation where if you're not looking to give him the big contract, you're specifically betting against him succeeding. Bet on that and you're hard wrong with KP, now that will get you fired.

It's hard to fault him for the KP deal. I would've made that same deal at the time, and I think 10 other teams would've done the same back then.

To me, after year 1 of Luka - you knew that you had something special. Right then, you have to start trying to acquire talent on the same timeline as him. So, starting the summer of 2019 they were on the clock. Since then, they have:

-Traded for Hardaway Jr. (KP included in the deal )
-Dumped Harrison Barnes for Z. Randolph (waived) and Justin Jackson
-Resigned Zinger, DFS, Kleber
-Extended D. Powell
-Signed Seth Curry and Delon Wright
-Acquired WCS
-Traded Curry for Richardson/Tyler Bey
-Dumped Delon Wright for James Johnson
-Acquired JJ Reddick (never played)

Some very meh decisions in there. There's still time of course, but this will likely be the last year they have cap space. Do the last 3-10 years build confidence that this Front Office will pull the right triggers for a generational talent? I'm not sure they do.

[Doctor MJ]

I don’t think they should be championship contenders yet. I see the problem as they are going to have a very difficult time becoming championship contenders, because of the recent choices the front office has made.

But, they could pull some moves this summer and prove me wrong.

Well, I certainly understand that feeling and being quite concerned about it.

As far as I see it, the only mistake I see that really ensures things will be considerably otherwise is KP. And I struggle making too much of that one mistake, however big the scale of the consequences ends up being. The mindset with that trade was the same mindset that gave the franchise Doncic.

You wish Nelson had been a bit more careful with the contract of course, but someone else was going to max him if the Mavs didn't and everyone would have been furious if they let him go. It's a situation where if you're not looking to give him the big contract, you're specifically betting against him succeeding. Bet on that and you're hard wrong with KP, now that will get you fired.

It's hard to fault him for the KP deal. I would've made that same deal at the time, and I think 10 other teams would've done the same back then.

To me, after year 1 of Luka - you knew that you had something special. Right then, you have to start trying to acquire talent on the same timeline as him. So, starting the summer of 2019 they were on the clock. Since then, they have:

-Traded for Hardaway Jr. (KP included in the deal )
-Dumped Harrison Barnes for Z. Randolph (waived) and Justin Jackson
-Resigned Zinger, DFS, Kleber
-Extended D. Powell
-Signed Seth Curry and Delon Wright
-Acquired WCS
-Traded Curry for Richardson/Tyler Bey
-Dumped Delon Wright for James Johnson
-Acquired JJ Reddick (never played)

Some very meh decisions in there. There's still time of course, but this will likely be the last year they have cap space. Do the last 3-10 years build confidence that this Front Office will pull the right triggers for a generational talent? I'm not sure they do.

I really don't have any reason to think that Donnie Nelson is fundamentally worse at this than the last time he built a championship team around a European player in Dallas, nor do I have any specific reason to think many others would be better at this than Nelson given that none of those other people have built a championship team around a European player, and none of them acquired Doncic.

But again, I'm more focused broadly speaking. I don't see a reason to see Nelson as incompetent, nor do I have a reason to think a random GM hire would do better, so the question to me is whether you have someone specific in mind.

[The_Hater]

Since 2011 the Mavs are now 0-6 in first round series, most recently gagging away a 2-0 lead by blowing three games at home. You don't seem to hear much talk about a hot seat for Rick Carlisle so I ask the question

The Mavs were the underdog and often a huge underdog in all 6 of those series. They took the 2014 Spurs to 7 games in the opening round as the 8 seed, the same Spurs who won the title and were universally praised a few weeks later. These details kinda matter.

This top 5 coach and future hall of famer is going nowhere because the Mavs have a smart organization.

[ShazamDaShiznt]

Maybe it's time for a change. The way he's been using Porzingis has been very questionable...He also lost them game 7 keeping Boban far too long.

[Buzzard]

Its not bad, I would think Donnie's seat is a little hot with all the poor draft picks. I don't blame Donnie for KP though. That contract has a Mark Cuban Euro slanted splash written all over it.

[KodiakBear]

Donnie Nelson needs to go before Carlisle. This is a GM/roster issue, not a coaching issue

Yep. Donnie Nelson has done a poor job of assembling talent since the title. He should go before Carlisle. In my view, coaches shouldn't be fired if they don't underachieve. Dallas as a 5 seed going 7 in the first round was fine. Dallas isn't as talented as the top 4 teams in the west.

[KodiakBear]

Maybe it's time for a change. The way he's been using Porzingis has been very questionable...He also lost them game 7 keeping Boban far too long.

Boban was actually pretty good in game 7. They played a lot better with him on the floor than with him off it. Clippers went on their big 24-4 run with him mostly off the floor.

[gottamakeit]

Donnie Nelson needs to go before Carlisle. This is a GM/roster issue, not a coaching issue

Ive defended both Rick and Donnie but I’m starting to lean to the side that believe Donnie needs to go. Who does a Cuban replace him with though?

Carlisle isn’t and shouldn’t go anywhere. Cuban also already said his job is safe.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I'm 1000% on the fire Donnie train.
We should definitely make an offer to Masai Ujiri.
Danny Ainge is also looking for a new job.

[slicedbread2]

Donnie Nelson needs to go before Carlisle. This is a GM/roster issue, not a coaching issue

Ive defended both Rick and Donnie but I’m starting to lean to the side that believe Donnie needs to go. Who does a Cuban replace him with though?

Carlisle isn’t and shouldn’t go anywhere. Cuban also already said his job is safe.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It's really depressing when you think about how much of a pathetic roster that Carlisle had to work with. Pop/Riley/Jackson would look just as bad trying to make something with a poorly assembled roster. If anything, the Mavs haven't learned squat from their blatant mishandling of Dirk. If they hadn't won the title, Dirk most likely leaves and goes elsewhere. Their approach of trying to go for a home run FA signing only to end up with a bunch of duds has been infuriating to say the least. Here's some of the major blunders they've accrued pre Luka and current timeline:

2017-2018:

-Draft Dennis Smith Jr. He looked good at the time, but Donovan Mitchell and Bam Adebayo ended up becoming major beasts. I'll give him a pass as nobody thought those 2 would become that good.
-Failure to move Nerlens Noel for value. Noel's stupidity of rejecting a 4/70M deal and taking the qualifying offer saved Donnie Nelson from himself. He should've moved Noel and cut his losses. If you were able to get a 2nd for him, should've taken it.
-Not moving Barnes. Him staying caused the Mavs to win a bunch of meaningless games that eventually caused them to slide in the draft lotto and be forced to give up future assets to get Luka.

2018-19:

-Got the franchise centrepiece who came way better than advertised, but was forced to part with a lightly pro. 1st.
-Ended up with a crap ton of cap space only to blow it on a 1/23M deal for Deandre Jordan who infamously rejected you prior when the Clippers locked him up in his house to keep Cuban away from him. Wasted cap space that could've been used to take on bad contracts in exchange for picks.
-What they could've done with that cap space instead was help OKC get out of Melo's deal as the Thunder were done with him being a liability who refused to come off the bench. Dallas could've flipped Harrison Barnes to OKC for Melo, Kyle Singler and a pro. 1st then they could've flipped Wesley Matthews expiring deal to Atlanta for Dennis Schroeder, their 1st returned and a future 2nd. Dennis got into legal trouble off the court and the Hawks wanted out of his salary to clear the way for Trae Young. This was a major opportunity missed by Nelson as he could've pulled a Hinkie. OKC with Barnes, Grant, George, Russ and Adams would've been better and Presti knew that if it didn't work he wasn't losing much and wouldn't be saddled with a long-term deal.
-Ultimately sold Barnes for pennies on the dollar(Justin Jackson, Zach Randolph). Could've flipped Randolph to another team looking for cap relief and get more picks. Mavs win a bunch of games with Jordan/Barnes and ultimately lose their 1st.
-Traded for KP. Ultimately Tim Hardaway Jr. ended up being way better than advertised while KP's attitude problems became worse in Dallas than they were in NY. Hindsight is 20/20, but should've only offered 1 pro. 1st instead of 2 as the Mavs were practically giving the Knicks cap relief in order to lure FA.

2019-20-present:

-Gives up 2 2nds for Delon Wright. He flops hard and proceeds to give up 2 more 2nds to OKC to get out of Wright's deal along with Justin Jackson in exchange for James Johnson who is then traded with Wes Iwundu and another 2nd to NO for Redick and Melli who aren't rotation players and suck
-Traded Seth Curry who was on a good deal to Philly for Josh Richardson and the 36th pick. It wasn't a bad deal at the time as they wanted to open up cap space and hoped that J-Rich would rebound from a rough year in Philly, but it didn't work out.
-All their picks were sent to the g-league in the 2020 draft as they were bigger projects than expected. Bad look when you have a generational superstar in the making. Chose Josh Green over Seddiq Bey who looked good at the 3 spot. The C's were looking to give away their 30th pick and gave it up for 2 2nds in 24+25 from Memphis. Should've done that deal if your Dallas in order to get 4 years of team control in Desmond Bane. Then they should've drafted Vic Krejci who was a Euro pg at 6'7 that could've helped and grow with the core as the team has no proper ball handlers.
-They have no picks in this year's draft. Barring any unforeseen circumstances, this is gonna be rough as Hardaway Jr. is a FA and Brunson is up for a new deal.

Donnie Nelson could've used the cap space to eat bad salaries during Luka's entry level deal while complimenting his franchise players with young guys on entry level deals to grow with him. It would've absorbed the failure of the KP signing thanks to Cuban's Euro fetish being on high display. If he had played his cards right he could've had a lineup of something like this:

Doncic/Krejci
Bane/Brunson
Bey/DFS
Kleber/Powell
KP/WCS

I think the Luka experiment will go the way of the 1st stint LBJ Cavs era. Hope I'm wrong but unless those kids they took in the 2020 draft amount into something it ain't gonna be pretty.

[MrGoat]

Well then...

And I put the Budenholzer option on this as a joke...

[MavfanAus]

Well then...

And I put the Budenholzer option on this as a joke...

Hmmm, well reports state that he stepped down so one must wonder if his seat was really "hot" to begin with.

[bstein14]

It's likely that certain parts of his "coaching style" weren't liked by some of the younger players. He is really similar to SVG in the regard where he likes to have a lot of control over the offense and he makes his players work.

Lots of younger players seemingly want a "player's coach" that is more laid back and lets them do their own thing more on the court... more freedom to do what you want to do.

Rick is one of the top 3 or 4 XOs coaches in the league so he will have zero problem getting another job, but his ideal situation may be going to a team with more veteran players. Someplace like Portland would be more ideal for him than a place like New Orleans.

[Dirk]

There's a topic on it.
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2092859