Who's higher on your all time team? Bird, Hakeem or Kobe

Narigo · Post #41 » by **Narigo** » Fri Jun 11, 2021 2:16 pm

Hakeem- #7
Bird- #10
Kobe- #13

Joao Saraiva · Post #42 » by **Joao Saraiva** » Fri Jun 11, 2021 4:20 pm

Hakeem. Then Kobe, then Bird.

Peak and 3 year prime wise I have Hakeem as the GOAT candidate. Altough I consider calculations for prime the 5 best years, that puts him ahead. Also his longevity is still pretty good, it's not like he was a bum outside 93-95.

Prokorov · Post #43 » by **Prokorov** » Fri Jun 11, 2021 4:23 pm

mdonnelly1989 wrote:Who's higher on your all time team? Bird, Hakeem or Kobe

Bird
Kobe

10-12 tiers

Hakeem

LakerLegend · Post #44 » by **LakerLegend** » Sat Jun 12, 2021 11:11 pm

Kobe's a better scorer than Bird, he's a better defender than Bird, and he's a better payoff performer than Bird.

Zarozzor · Post #45 » by **Zarozzor** » Sun Jun 13, 2021 9:05 am

7. Hakeem
10. Kobe
11. Bird

These are where I had them when I did my all-time list back in early 2019. I'd like to think that I've increased my basketball knowledge since then, and there are a few players I'm higher and lower on now. So I'm curious to see where the above three land when I make another list.

Stalwart · Post #46 » by **Stalwart** » Sun Jun 13, 2021 12:50 pm

It's Bird>Kobe>Olajuwon

Kobe gets alot of hate due to unfair narratives. People forget all those years Hakeem's teams weren't in contention.

Bird had the best peak. He basically had an 8 year career and still came out with a top 10 atg resume.

HeartBreakKid · Post #47 » by **HeartBreakKid** » Sun Jun 13, 2021 12:55 pm

Stalwart wrote:It's Bird>Kobe>Olajuwon

Kobe gets alot of hate due to unfair narratives. People forget all those years Hakeem's teams weren't in contention.

Bird had the best peak. He basically had an 8 year career and still came out with a top 10 atg resume.

People forgot the years Hakeem wasn't in contention because his team was not worth remembering. That's generally how it works.

VDT · Post #48 » by **VDT** » Sun Jun 13, 2021 5:56 pm

Bird gets a bit overrated because of the "skill" factor but he had weaknesses. For instance his scoring was not as resilient in the postseason. Careerwise, per 36 Bird had 20.3 ppg on 55.3% TS, Hakeem had 23.5 ppg on 56.9% TS. Bird played on a more defensive conference but Hakeem played in the low scoring 90s. He was a very good shooter (although low 3 point volume due to era) and very good passer but he was not defensive anchor and as a #1 option on a title team he was good but not exceptional imo with a lot of bad years efficiency wise. He was also not really a ball handler so his passing was not as dynamic.

McBubbles · Post #49 » by **McBubbles** » Fri Jun 18, 2021 8:19 pm

Colbinii wrote:LeBron #1
Duncan #2
Jordan #3
Russell #4
Kareem #5
Garnett #6
Wilt #7
Magic #8
Hakeem #9
Shaq #10
Bird #11
Dirk #12
Oscar #13
Kobe #14

I mostly do tiers now though and one tier is LeBron through Wilt, the next is Magic through Dirk and then Oscar and Kobe are with about 7 or 8 other guys.

What's your logic for Garnett so ridiculously high. Particularly over Magic, Wilt and Shaq?

Max123 · Post #50 » by **Max123** » Fri Jun 18, 2021 9:39 pm

VDT wrote:Bird gets a bit overrated because of the "skill" factor but he had weaknesses. For instance his scoring was not as resilient in the postseason. Careerwise, per 36 Bird had 20.3 ppg on 55.3% TS, Hakeem had 23.5 ppg on 56.9% TS. Bird played on a more defensive conference but Hakeem played in the low scoring 90s. He was a very good shooter (although low 3 point volume due to era) and very good passer but he was not defensive anchor and as a #1 option on a title team he was good but not exceptional imo with a lot of bad years efficiency wise. He was also not really a ball handler so his passing was not as dynamic.

Why was his scoring not resilient in the playoffs? Couldn’t it be because defenses chose to zero in on not letting him score which led to him having ”worse” scoring nights while taking advantage of the extra attention he’s receiving?

Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

Max123 · Post #51 » by **Max123** » Fri Jun 18, 2021 9:40 pm

McBubbles wrote:
Colbinii wrote:LeBron #1
Duncan #2
Jordan #3
Russell #4
Kareem #5
Garnett #6
Wilt #7
Magic #8
Hakeem #9
Shaq #10
Bird #11
Dirk #12
Oscar #13
Kobe #14

I mostly do tiers now though and one tier is LeBron through Wilt, the next is Magic through Dirk and then Oscar and Kobe are with about 7 or 8 other guys.

What's your logic for Garnett so ridiculously high. Particularly over Magic, Wilt and Shaq?

Can’t answer for him but I think there are many members on these boards who are as high as Colbinii on KG, some even higher than 6, and there was plenty of KG conversation in the top 100 project.

Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

Colbinii · Post #52 » by **Colbinii** » Fri Jun 18, 2021 11:24 pm

McBubbles wrote:
Colbinii wrote:LeBron #1
Duncan #2
Jordan #3
Russell #4
Kareem #5
Garnett #6
Wilt #7
Magic #8
Hakeem #9
Shaq #10
Bird #11
Dirk #12
Oscar #13
Kobe #14

I mostly do tiers now though and one tier is LeBron through Wilt, the next is Magic through Dirk and then Oscar and Kobe are with about 7 or 8 other guys.

What's your logic for Garnett so ridiculously high. Particularly over Magic, Wilt and Shaq?

Terrific longevity (Length of Prime, Multiple All-time level peaks fulfilling different roles), Portability, Maybe the best defender ever for the modern era, level of impact.

migya · Post #53 » by **migya** » Sat Jun 19, 2021 3:22 am

McBubbles wrote:
Colbinii wrote:LeBron #1
Duncan #2
Jordan #3
Russell #4
Kareem #5
Garnett #6
Wilt #7
Magic #8
Hakeem #9
Shaq #10
Bird #11
Dirk #12
Oscar #13
Kobe #14

I mostly do tiers now though and one tier is LeBron through Wilt, the next is Magic through Dirk and then Oscar and Kobe are with about 7 or 8 other guys.

What's your logic for Garnett so ridiculously high. Particularly over Magic, Wilt and Shaq?

Garnett's at the level of Moses Malone really. Moses did better during his prime though it may have been shorter.

SNPA · Post #54 » by **SNPA** » Sat Jun 19, 2021 4:31 am

VDT wrote:Bird gets a bit overrated because of the "skill" factor but he had weaknesses. For instance his scoring was not as resilient in the postseason. Careerwise, per 36 Bird had 20.3 ppg on 55.3% TS, Hakeem had 23.5 ppg on 56.9% TS. Bird played on a more defensive conference but Hakeem played in the low scoring 90s. He was a very good shooter (although low 3 point volume due to era) and very good passer but he was not defensive anchor and as a #1 option on a title team he was good but not exceptional imo with a lot of bad years efficiency wise. He was also not really a ball handler so his passing was not as dynamic.

Well, it’s a game of skill so...

The poll is more accurate than the comments in this thread.

90sAllDecade · Post #55 » by **90sAllDecade** » Sat Jun 19, 2021 4:27 pm

Bird and Kobe we're brilliant offensive players and all time greats no doubt. But when you take a microscope to these players and really look at everything, you can see the difference mainstream analysis or hype doesn't show you.

When you consider combined offensive and defensive impact, playoff performance, team support including coaching, competition and rules; Hakeem is a better overall player and actually very high all time in comparison to others.

feyki · Post #56 » by **feyki** » Mon Jun 21, 2021 9:43 am

I have Bird at 11, Kobe at 10 and Olajuwon at 9. Pretty close in careers. Bird is little bit behind due to short career. But had way better prime than both.

migya · Post #57 » by **migya** » Mon Jun 21, 2021 10:18 am

feyki wrote:I have Bird at 11, Kobe at 10 and Olajuwon at 9. Pretty close in careers. Bird is little bit behind due to short career. But had way better prime than both.

Not better prime than Olajuwon. Bird did benefit from good players around that did allow him to flourish. He was great but on a team like Olajuwon's he wouldn't have been that good. If Olajuwon had just one very good, not great, perimeter player in his prime he would've won more and so ranked higher.

Jaivl · Post #58 » by **Jaivl** » Mon Jun 21, 2021 10:42 am

migya wrote:
McBubbles wrote:
Colbinii wrote:LeBron #1
Duncan #2
Jordan #3
Russell #4
Kareem #5
Garnett #6
Wilt #7
Magic #8
Hakeem #9
Shaq #10
Bird #11
Dirk #12
Oscar #13
Kobe #14

I mostly do tiers now though and one tier is LeBron through Wilt, the next is Magic through Dirk and then Oscar and Kobe are with about 7 or 8 other guys.

What's your logic for Garnett so ridiculously high. Particularly over Magic, Wilt and Shaq?

Garnett's at the level of Moses Malone really. Moses did better during his prime though it may have been shorter.

Lol just imagine Garnett getting to play with Murphy and Tomjanovich, Cheeks, Toney, Jones and Julius Erving, young Barkley, Dominique...

70sFan · Post #59 » by **70sFan** » Mon Jun 21, 2021 11:08 am

Jaivl wrote:
migya wrote:
McBubbles wrote:
What's your logic for Garnett so ridiculously high. Particularly over Magic, Wilt and Shaq?

Garnett's at the level of Moses Malone really. Moses did better during his prime though it may have been shorter.

Lol just imagine Garnett getting to play with Murphy and Tomjanovich, Cheeks, Toney, Jones and Julius Erving, young Barkley, Dominique...

I don't think Garnett would do that much with this Rockets team. I mean, pre-2000 Garnett wouldn't make that huge of a difference and after 1979, old Rockets supporting cast got worse and worse.

Garnett would definitely fare better in the Hawks though.

migya · Post #60 » by **migya** » Mon Jun 21, 2021 11:21 am

Jaivl wrote:
migya wrote:
McBubbles wrote:
What's your logic for Garnett so ridiculously high. Particularly over Magic, Wilt and Shaq?

Garnett's at the level of Moses Malone really. Moses did better during his prime though it may have been shorter.

Lol just imagine Garnett getting to play with Murphy and Tomjanovich, Cheeks, Toney, Jones and Julius Erving, young Barkley, Dominique...

There's truth in that but like Garnett, Moses took a few years to reach star level and in his early years he wasn't big for Houston, during the years that Tomjanovich and Murphy playing high level. Moses' years in Philly was like Garnett in Boston, he had the talented teammates and so won. Bobby Jones was in his fourth last season and in his thirties, Erving was 33 years old, so not at their best, still talented team. He played with Barkley for two seasons, before Barkley was a star. Dominique was a star scorer, nothing more really so.

He had better teammates than Garnett most of his career but he was the best player on most of those teams.

Who's higher on your all time team? Bird, Hawkeem or Kobe