MIAMI HEAT Offseason Thread 2021

[Kobewade11]

https://rocketswire.usatoday.com/2021/03/05/report-john-wall-seen-as-potential-trade-target-for-miami-heat/

Riley has had eyes on Wall for a while.

A healthy and motivated Wall would be fun to watch. Only he’s never healthy, and his shooting numbers dont look too hot. Thats the burden of trying to construct a team with Jimmy as the best player.

[MettaWorldPanda]

https://rocketswire.usatoday.com/2021/03/05/report-john-wall-seen-as-potential-trade-target-for-miami-heat/

Riley has had eyes on Wall for a while.

A healthy and motivated Wall would be fun to watch. Only he’s never healthy, and his shooting numbers dont look too hot. Thats the burden of trying to construct a team with Jimmy as the best player.

He would be an interesting get. I know the contract is top heavy but it's for two more years and he's still only 30. If you weigh it against out other options if we S&T Lowry it has to be for 3 years and he's going to be 36 this year and presses us at the tax apron due to S&T rules. If we sign Lowry or Dinwiddie via cap space it's basically the only significant move we can make. Dinwiddie will also command a 4 year deal. Collin Sexton seems like a pipe dream as many other suitors are going to be banging down the door to get him that need a PG. Bulls and Knicks will be making calls and have competitive assets to offer and picks. Houston will no doubt have to give us at minimum a couple of 1st round picks back. Next year Wall becomes a massive expiring and we could have our cupboard full of picks to swing a massive deal. Houston has 4 picks and I'm sure they won't be making all of them.

[puppa bear]

Golden State
Denver
Portland

I also like the Knicks as a target but I will not trade Jimmy Butler to the Knicks.

Do you have trade packages in mind? I liked the idea of Wiseman and #4 from GSW, but 7 and 14 much less.

Wiseman/7/14 could still give a nice jumpstart to a quick rebuild


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[DayofMourning]

Golden State
Denver
Portland

I also like the Knicks as a target but I will not trade Jimmy Butler to the Knicks.

Do you have trade packages in mind? I liked the idea of Wiseman and #4 from GSW, but 7 and 14 much less.

Wiseman/7/14 could still give a nice jumpstart to a quick rebuild


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I can dig it. Who you drafting at 7 and 14?

[Wiltside]

If I’m trading Herro, it’s for a top 4-5 pick in this draft. Not multiple late firsts.

I’m not as down on Herro as others. He struggled a bit this year, but I’m still hopeful.

[Wiltside]

Depending on how depressed Simmons value is, and I imagine it’s fairly depressed, would be worth trying to acquire him and Seth Curry if Philly goes for a change.

Ben Simmons
Seth Curry

For

Goran Dragic
Andre Igoudala
Precious Achiuwa?
Pick?

Curry
Robinson
Butler
Simmons
Adebayo

If Bam can become an Embiid level shooter, it could work…

[Hallstar]

For what it's worth, I'd have a hard time moving Herro for anything not a top four pick. From pick five onward, I'm not sold at all on moving Herro. He just finished his 2nd year averaging 15 points a game in 30 minutes. We know he can shoot it, and he has big balls. Once he gets into a rhythm with the lifestyle of the league, and gets organized, then he could be a guy you can rely on as a consistent scorer.

If Herro was on another team, we would be doing back flips if we could get him



Players 23 and under scoring 15ppg and above

Herro and Barrett are the only ones on a playoff team, and Herro's 2nd to last in minutes

[Bishop45]

Depending on how depressed Simmons value is, and I imagine it’s fairly depressed, would be worth trying to acquire him and Seth Curry if Philly goes for a change.

Ben Simmons
Seth Curry

For

Goran Dragic
Andre Igoudala
Precious Achiuwa?
Pick?

Curry
Robinson
Butler
Simmons
Adebayo

If Bam can become an Embiid level shooter, it could work…

Umm.... Y.... Y would Philly do this?

[puppa bear]

Do you have trade packages in mind? I liked the idea of Wiseman and #4 from GSW, but 7 and 14 much less.

Wiseman/7/14 could still give a nice jumpstart to a quick rebuild


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I can dig it. Who you drafting at 7 and 14?

Jalen Johnson or Bouknight at 7, and then Giddey at 14.

Jalen is the only SC I’d look at with the 7 (assuming Barnes goes at 6). I like JJ, but do worry about the low number of 3pt attempts. I’m not being shy about taking shooting/scoring over fit and Bouknight has shown he can shoot in his workouts. It may be a reach, but I’m taking one of these two.

I’m locked in on Giddey. Yes, he’s my Aussie lad, but he’s been dropping triple doubles against grown ass men in the NBL. He’s not Luka level, but he’s a step above Exum. The Jingles comp is a bit lazy (dorky white guy from Australia), but he does raise his teammates and work his ass off for the team. He’ll fit the Heat culture & get people that long PG they’ve wanted. If he bulks up, he may be able to defend the non-LeBron SFs of the league at the same time.

Giddey/Bouknight/Herro/Bam/Wiseman is a solid core. We’re missing a SF, but we have Wiggins in this scenario & those three might be able to defend most wing combos in a few years when we’re free from that contract. Plus we’ve got Dragic/Iggy/Dipo to teach the kids how to play & win, though I’d expect Iggy to be traded by mid year to a contender for another youngster & a filler.

Then we get another pick in 2022 & take BPA, with a crap tonne of cap space.

[RexBoyWonder]

For what it's worth, I'd have a hard time moving Herro for anything not a top four pick. From pick five onward, I'm not sold at all on moving Herro. He just finished his 2nd year averaging 15 points a game in 30 minutes. We know he can shoot it, and he has big balls. Once he gets into a rhythm with the lifestyle of the league, and gets organized, then he could be a guy you can rely on as a consistent scorer.

From what we're hearing, The org is really down on him for serval reasons. If you read between the lines :

1) He's not taking the gym seriously, that's why he's still looks like a 14 YO.
2) He's lost focus, probably referring to the Instagram lifestyle.
3) He didn't make the expected jump and couldn't hold the starting PG spot - IMO that's unfair - he played well enough next to some bad players.
4) He's not ready to be a winning player in Jimmy's timeline. That's just life.

[puppa bear]

For what it's worth, I'd have a hard time moving Herro for anything not a top four pick. From pick five onward, I'm not sold at all on moving Herro. He just finished his 2nd year averaging 15 points a game in 30 minutes. We know he can shoot it, and he has big balls. Once he gets into a rhythm with the lifestyle of the league, and gets organized, then he could be a guy you can rely on as a consistent scorer.

From what we're hearing, The org is really down on him for serval reasons. If you read between the lines :

1) He's not taking the gym seriously, that's why he's still looks like a 14 YO.
2) He's lost focus, probably referring to the Instagram lifestyle.
3) He didn't make the expected jump and couldn't hold the starting PG spot - IMO that's unfair - he played well enough next to some bad players.
4) He's not ready to be a winning player in Jimmy's timeline. That's just life.

Many teams will look at Herro and see the potential, whilst feeling like they have the 2-3 years they can invest in him. Miami hasn’t seen the jump they needed this year, and we can’t just keep spinning the wheels.

It’s a business, and moving him might be the best decision for now. It may be one of those “if only” situations in 5-6 years, but if we get another Finals berth while the league is open & while there are no non-dysfunctional super teams.

[Wiltside]

Depending on how depressed Simmons value is, and I imagine it’s fairly depressed, would be worth trying to acquire him and Seth Curry if Philly goes for a change.

Ben Simmons
Seth Curry

For

Goran Dragic
Andre Igoudala
Precious Achiuwa?
Pick?

Curry
Robinson
Butler
Simmons
Adebayo

If Bam can become an Embiid level shooter, it could work…

Umm.... Y.... Y would Philly do this?

Realistically speaking, they wouldn’t. And the deal
We’d have to do would require probably Herro at any rate.

It was mainly my assumption they’re desperate to move on and that Simmons has tanked his trade value. To what level? I dunno.

I was also more just trying to get a lineup with Simmons, Bam, Butler and 2 lights out shooters.

[puppa bear]

Depending on how depressed Simmons value is, and I imagine it’s fairly depressed, would be worth trying to acquire him and Seth Curry if Philly goes for a change.

Ben Simmons
Seth Curry

For

Goran Dragic
Andre Igoudala
Precious Achiuwa?
Pick?

Curry
Robinson
Butler
Simmons
Adebayo

If Bam can become an Embiid level shooter, it could work…

Umm.... Y.... Y would Philly do this?

Realistically speaking, they wouldn’t. And the deal
We’d have to do would require probably Herro at any rate.

It was mainly my assumption they’re desperate to move on and that Simmons has tanked his trade value. To what level? I dunno.

I was also more just trying to get a lineup with Simmons, Bam, Butler and 2 lights out shooters.

Simmons may have tanked his value, but for a team like the Cavs, Thunder or Kings he will help sell tickets, jerseys & ads, and vastly improve the outlook for the next season.

You may not be able to build a title team around him, but you can use him to sell tickets & generate interest!

[dean456]

Thought this was an interesting comparison since many would probably drop a deuce if we got DMitch.

DMitch vs CSex

Donovan Mitchell is a real favorite of mine. I think Sexton would really flourish in Miami. I doubt our bid would be higher than many other teams though, so we don't have much of a real chance right now. We cannot afford Sexton. Might be better to wait. I would still trade Butler though. My ideal trade with the Warriors would be:

2021 FRP Minnesota (#7)
2023 FRP Golden State (which will allow us to trade future picks without reservation)
Jordan Poole
James Wiseman
Andrew Wiggins

for Jimmy Butler (who is essentially an expiring)

We may be able to get more draft compensation. This is the minimum and what I perceive as a fair deal for both sides. Warriors become a favorite for the championship.

I'd likely draft Jalen Johnson, keep Herro, resign Robinson & Nunn to trade later. If I could swing Herro & Achiuwa (who would be redundant) for Sexton, of course I'd do it.

This would be a deal I'd be down for but I don't ever see Riley making a deal with eyes for long term success. He only ever wants to make deals to win now.

Doing something like this would set us up very nicely in the future. We'd have Bam, Herro, Wiseman, Johnson, Precious as a young core and Wiggins, Robinson and Nunn as older tradable vets.

Unfortunately just adding a 2023 pick from another team wouldn't open up our future picks because our protections going up till 2026 will still be in place on the OKC pick.

[twix2500]

Watch on YouTube

[puppa bear]

Thought this was an interesting comparison since many would probably drop a deuce if we got DMitch.

DMitch vs CSex

Donovan Mitchell is a real favorite of mine. I think Sexton would really flourish in Miami. I doubt our bid would be higher than many other teams though, so we don't have much of a real chance right now. We cannot afford Sexton. Might be better to wait. I would still trade Butler though. My ideal trade with the Warriors would be:

2021 FRP Minnesota (#7)
2023 FRP Golden State (which will allow us to trade future picks without reservation)
Jordan Poole
James Wiseman
Andrew Wiggins

for Jimmy Butler (who is essentially an expiring)

We may be able to get more draft compensation. This is the minimum and what I perceive as a fair deal for both sides. Warriors become a favorite for the championship.

I'd likely draft Jalen Johnson, keep Herro, resign Robinson & Nunn to trade later. If I could swing Herro & Achiuwa (who would be redundant) for Sexton, of course I'd do it.

This would be a deal I'd be down for but I don't ever see Riley making a deal with eyes for long term success. He only ever wants to make deals to win now.

Doing something like this would set us up very nicely in the future. We'd have Bam, Herro, Wiseman, Johnson, Precious as a young core and Wiggins, Robinson and Nunn as older tradable vets.

Unfortunately just adding a 2023 pick from another team wouldn't open up our future picks because our protections going up till 2026 will still be in place on the OKC pick.

The GSW 2023 1st would need to be swapped with OKC to get ours back. Seems doable, though it might cost us a second.

We’d also have Iggy/Dragic in the mix as expiring deals as well. If we wanted to go full rebuild we could use them to get another asset for a longer, bigger contract - maybe Wall, Kemba or Buddy? Wall would make a nice tank commander!

If we can get the deals to line up, we could make a big splash in 2023 right before having to pay Herro as a RFA.

[heater4life]

You don’t trade Tyler Herro for anything less than a package that features an Allstar player.

Every fan is being unreasonable with Herro. He had an impactful rookie season and then didn’t take the step everyone was expecting (although improved statistically in many facets) and everyone wants to get rid of him.

Bam, Winslow, nor Precious showed that much skill in their first year, nor in their 2nd.

Riley isn’t getting rid of the kid unless it’s for a far superior talent.

[RexBoyWonder]

You don’t trade Tyler Herro for anything less than a package that features an Allstar player.

Every fan is being unreasonable with Herro. He had an impactful rookie season and then didn’t take the step everyone was expecting (although improved statistically in many facets) and everyone wants to get rid of him.

Bam, Winslow, nor Precious showed that much skill in their first year, nor in their 2nd.

Riley isn’t getting rid of the kid unless it’s for a far superior talent.

Yea...'I'm not sure you want to use those examples. Winslow could be considered a bust. Precious is in a very tight spot with almost no way of getting real minutes under Spo.

The reality is we can't have both ways - you either try to win now with Jimmy (in that case Herro and Precious should probably be moved for more ready to win players) or we're not really trying to go all in - in that case we better off trading Jimmy for future assets and young players and hope this young team gets a lot better 3/4 years from now.

[DayofMourning]

You don’t trade Tyler Herro for anything less than a package that features an Allstar player.

Every fan is being unreasonable with Herro. He had an impactful rookie season and then didn’t take the step everyone was expecting (although improved statistically in many facets) and everyone wants to get rid of him.

Bam, Winslow, nor Precious showed that much skill in their first year, nor in their 2nd.

Riley isn’t getting rid of the kid unless it’s for a far superior talent.

Yea...'I'm not sure you want to use those examples. Winslow could be considered a bust. Precious is in a very tight spot with almost no way of getting real minutes under Spo.

The reality is we can't have both ways - you either try to win now with Jimmy (in that case Herro and Precious should probably be moved for more ready to win players) or we're not really trying to go all in - in that case we better off trading Jimmy for future assets and young players and hope this young team gets a lot better 3/4 years from now.

Pretty much. Unless Bam and Herro go supernova next year, we've put ourselves in a tough spot for real contention. I mean, it could be worse than what we've assembled, but the ultimate goal of winning it all is going to require more pieces. We still have maneuverability with that this offseason, but it's really a make or break offseason for "this" team to come together during Jimmy's timeline. We have to get lucky with some trades. That cap space we had, then donated to Bam's future fund, is pretty much unusable. We have to sign and trade our way into some deals.

Having said that, we're going to have to take some risks. I'm not a fan of Kristaps injury woes. Paying a cheerleader max money is pretty crazy, and franchise crippling..... However, when you have no other valid options, you gamble on potential upside. At his healthy peak, he's a mismatch problem who isn't going to be shy about taking shots. That last bit has been a hinderance for us, as our top two players definitely love to defer. Hell, Jimmy practically preaches deference. We need more guys who won't think twice about getting shots up. That's another reason I like that Sexton could be available as well.

[BigO]

For what it's worth, I'd have a hard time moving Herro for anything not a top four pick. From pick five onward, I'm not sold at all on moving Herro. He just finished his 2nd year averaging 15 points a game in 30 minutes. We know he can shoot it, and he has big balls. Once he gets into a rhythm with the lifestyle of the league, and gets organized, then he could be a guy you can rely on as a consistent scorer.

From what we're hearing, The org is really down on him for serval reasons. If you read between the lines :

1) He's not taking the gym seriously, that's why he's still looks like a 14 YO.
2) He's lost focus, probably referring to the Instagram lifestyle.
3) He didn't make the expected jump and couldn't hold the starting PG spot - IMO that's unfair - he played well enough next to some bad players.
4) He's not ready to be a winning player in Jimmy's timeline. That's just life.

Many teams will look at Herro and see the potential, whilst feeling like they have the 2-3 years they can invest in him. Miami hasn’t seen the jump they needed this year, and we can’t just keep spinning the wheels.

It’s a business, and moving him might be the best decision for now. It may be one of those “if only” situations in 5-6 years, but if we get another Finals berth while the league is open & while there are no non-dysfunctional super teams.

Evaluating Herro is not easy. He has great offensive talent.He's a scorer, not just a shooter and can shoot on the move.

But he doesn't have basketball instincts and needs a lot of coaching to be a winning player. He has more talent than any of the Heat guards, but has the lowest bball IQ and is the worst defender. He could flame out or could become an all star. that's where projection comes in.

If he was thrown into this year's draft, knowing what we know about him, I don't think he goes top seven.