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Ben Simmons Trade Thread

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Re: Ben Simmons Trade Thread 

Post#941 » by sixers hoops » Mon Jun 28, 2021 9:53 pm

Arsenal wrote:Yeah, my offer for Lillard starts with Ben + Shake. I want to keep Thybulle as our top perimeter defender, and Maxey as our heir apparent for Lillard. They can have literally anything else (except Embiid of course).


I rank Tyrese and Thybulle about our future firsts. Rather keep the guys we know can at least play, and we can use immediately around Embiid, Lillard, Tobias, and Curry. We certainly could draft better players with those picks, but if we get Lillard, we need to be all in on next season.

I have thought about it in-depth, but Ben, Shake, and two firsts I would probably do.
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Re: Ben Simmons Trade Thread 

Post#942 » by phillynative » Mon Jun 28, 2021 9:54 pm

phillynative wrote:
eyeatoma wrote:This would be an awesome deal for us.
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I was thinking this except i think portland would want an extra young piece in tisse or maxey .


Didnt see the picks, nevermind.
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Re: Ben Simmons Trade Thread 

Post#943 » by the_process » Mon Jun 28, 2021 11:00 pm

I don’t know if Minnesota trades Edwards… but I could see a pupu platter with 3 1sts and 3 swaps or something like that. A Jrue Holiday deal. A bunch of unprotected 1sts and no salary back would be a pretty good Lillard package IMO.
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Re: Ben Simmons Trade Thread 

Post#944 » by FireMorey » Mon Jun 28, 2021 11:06 pm

I think defense is overrated. I think it's easier to "effort" your way into respectable defense in a playoff series than it is to generate offense without the guys to do it. And defensive stoppers are more readily available with buyouts than high volume scorers. PJ Tucker types are available every year.

It would be insane to keep Thybulle over Maxey if given the choice. Maxey's ceiling is way higher and he has some defensive potential too.
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Re: Ben Simmons Trade Thread 

Post#945 » by ExplosionsInDaSky » Mon Jun 28, 2021 11:11 pm

You can actually sell high on Thybulle right now if you want to. I don't want to, but if he nets a superstar, then you almost have to do it.
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Re: Ben Simmons Trade Thread 

Post#946 » by syntax » Mon Jun 28, 2021 11:12 pm

PhilaOwnsBoston wrote:I think defense is overrated. I think it's easier to "effort" your way into respectable defense in a playoff series than it is to generate offense without the guys to do it. And defensive stoppers are more readily available with buyouts than high volume scorers. PJ Tucker types are available every year.

It would be insane to keep Thybulle over Maxey if given the choice. Maxey's ceiling is way higher and he has some defensive potential too.


Really? Suns, Clippers, Bucks are all top 10 in defense and made the conf finals.

Atlanta is not far off at 18th.

No bad defensive team made it very far in the playoffs.
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Re: Ben Simmons Trade Thread 

Post#947 » by FireMorey » Mon Jun 28, 2021 11:15 pm

syntax wrote:
PhilaOwnsBoston wrote:I think defense is overrated. I think it's easier to "effort" your way into respectable defense in a playoff series than it is to generate offense without the guys to do it. And defensive stoppers are more readily available with buyouts than high volume scorers. PJ Tucker types are available every year.

It would be insane to keep Thybulle over Maxey if given the choice. Maxey's ceiling is way higher and he has some defensive potential too.


Really? Suns, Clippers, Bucks are all top 10 in defense and made the conf finals.

Atlanta is not far off at 18th.

No bad defensive team made it very far in the playoffs.


They are all very good offensive teams too though.

The Suns are the favorites right now and if they win it's going to be on the backs of their offense more than anything.
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Re: Ben Simmons Trade Thread 

Post#948 » by ExplosionsInDaSky » Mon Jun 28, 2021 11:16 pm

syntax wrote:
PhilaOwnsBoston wrote:I think defense is overrated. I think it's easier to "effort" your way into respectable defense in a playoff series than it is to generate offense without the guys to do it. And defensive stoppers are more readily available with buyouts than high volume scorers. PJ Tucker types are available every year.

It would be insane to keep Thybulle over Maxey if given the choice. Maxey's ceiling is way higher and he has some defensive potential too.


Really? Suns, Clippers, Bucks are all top 10 in defense and made the conf finals.

Atlanta is not far off at 18th.

No bad defensive team made it very far in the playoffs.


I agree, you have to be able to lock teams down at times if you want to win. Milwaukee doesn't beat Brooklyn without trying insanely hard on the defensive end. It is about effort of course, but so is anything at the end of the day. Simmons is a great defender. He just needs to not be a zero on the offensive end and we'll be all good.
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Re: Ben Simmons Trade Thread 

Post#949 » by FireMorey » Mon Jun 28, 2021 11:17 pm

And honestly, Brooklyn sucked on defense this year, but they would have probably steamrolled through the playoffs if they had Kyrie and Harden.

Offense wins in the modern NBA.
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Re: Ben Simmons Trade Thread 

Post#950 » by syntax » Mon Jun 28, 2021 11:19 pm

PhilaOwnsBoston wrote:
syntax wrote:
PhilaOwnsBoston wrote:I think defense is overrated. I think it's easier to "effort" your way into respectable defense in a playoff series than it is to generate offense without the guys to do it. And defensive stoppers are more readily available with buyouts than high volume scorers. PJ Tucker types are available every year.

It would be insane to keep Thybulle over Maxey if given the choice. Maxey's ceiling is way higher and he has some defensive potential too.


Really? Suns, Clippers, Bucks are all top 10 in defense and made the conf finals.

Atlanta is not far off at 18th.

No bad defensive team made it very far in the playoffs.


They are all very good offensive teams too though.

The Suns are the favorites right now and if they win it's going to be on the backs of their offense more than anything.


Suns are 2nd defense and 10th offense. If anything it's the other way around.
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Re: Ben Simmons Trade Thread 

Post#951 » by FireMorey » Mon Jun 28, 2021 11:27 pm

syntax wrote:
PhilaOwnsBoston wrote:
syntax wrote:
Really? Suns, Clippers, Bucks are all top 10 in defense and made the conf finals.

Atlanta is not far off at 18th.

No bad defensive team made it very far in the playoffs.


They are all very good offensive teams too though.

The Suns are the favorites right now and if they win it's going to be on the backs of their offense more than anything.


Suns are 2nd defense and 10th offense. If anything it's the other way around.


Playoffs are a different animal though, rotations are shortened and you rely on superstars to carry you offensively. Great individual offense always beats great individual defense.

Unless Maxey is a total sieve defensively, with his offensive upside, that's far more valuable than Thybulle with his limited offensive upside. You can supplement defense just fine. The Sixers had 3 of the best individual defenders in the entire league and couldn't stop the Atlanta Hawks offense when it mattered and couldn't get buckets when it mattered.

The Sixers experiment alone should be a prime example of how your ceiling is cut short when your offense is limited.

I think defense is valuable, just overrated. And this season is a weird year anyway where a lot of injuries impacted a lot of outcomes.

No doubt in my mind though the Nets would have won the title if healthy and their defense was abysmal.
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Re: Ben Simmons Trade Thread 

Post#952 » by ankle420breaker » Mon Jun 28, 2021 11:29 pm

I'd almost rather try and strike a Simmons deal for CJ and keep Maxey/Tissot.



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Re: Ben Simmons Trade Thread 

Post#953 » by ankle420breaker » Mon Jun 28, 2021 11:30 pm

Do we have our full MLE this summer?

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Re: Ben Simmons Trade Thread 

Post#954 » by Embiid-MVP » Mon Jun 28, 2021 11:36 pm

ankle420breaker wrote:I'd almost rather try and strike a Simmons deal for CJ and keep Maxey/Tissot.



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Dame or bust. I don't want CJ unless it's in a Dame & CJ for Ben and Tobias plus deal
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Re: Ben Simmons Trade Thread 

Post#955 » by BNelley24 » Mon Jun 28, 2021 11:38 pm

We really gonna hold up a deal for Dame and a legit title because of Tyrese or Thybulle? You get Dame you have a super team. You can find role players to fill the other spots. We can find another Maxey. Nothing against the kids I love em, but common now...
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Re: Ben Simmons Trade Thread 

Post#956 » by DCasey91 » Mon Jun 28, 2021 11:52 pm

I think defense is very important. The subset though of a high offensive hub individuals takes precedence but that’s been that way since the beginning. Offense in general is the overrated aspect not the offensive hub to build around.

You can get scorers, shooters, roleplayers what have you, the star primary is the hardest and most valued.

Basketball has been helio or 1/2, or in rare cases three and full maximization with the surrounding parts. It’s not exactly a team sport (too much gravity per player as being 5x5 the WAR is absurd here) but it’s not all on the individual either. The star build around opens the door that’s why they are so highly sought after.

Trout has GOAT level WAR and a GOAT start (already first ballot hall of fame and just entering his prime years lol). But his replacement level is borderline all star for NBA term (7 more or less). Absurd gravity in basketball. Different sports, Huge variance (slumps can be months on end of zero to low value metrics). Whereas basketball is way less variance.

Lebron took nuff nuffs to the finals lol. Can’t happen for other “team” sports.
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Re: Ben Simmons Trade Thread 

Post#957 » by Mik317 » Tue Jun 29, 2021 12:39 am

Defense is still important. We lost game seven because Curry was food for example.

Just can’t be your main calling card and honestly our defense was pretty poopy in the playoffs it feels… didn’t really seem to make it hard for anyone nor cause turnovers as much no?
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Re: Ben Simmons Trade Thread 

Post#958 » by Mik317 » Tue Jun 29, 2021 12:43 am

Also are we even sure Lillard is still on the market? I think that piece was mainly to distance himself from the Billups thing and to let the fo feel the heat more than an actual trade request. Chauncey was his second choice behind Kidd ( says a lot about his decision making lol) and I don’t see him bailing on him right away…. Feels like this isn’t as open as everyone is acting
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Re: Ben Simmons Trade Thread 

Post#959 » by Da Doctor » Tue Jun 29, 2021 12:47 am

Yeah I doubt Dame is actually available.
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Re: Ben Simmons Trade Thread 

Post#960 » by zaz102 » Tue Jun 29, 2021 1:01 am

Zach Lowe said its a big "if" for Dame to get traded. And that he would expect Portland would do everything in their power to keep him on the team.

He also mentioned if they were looking for a trade, there's always the difficulty of finding the right partner for someone of his caliber and that he would want to go to.

It was more of a speculative discussion, but logically it makes sense. It's probably pretty unlikely unless Dame wants out and Portland can't do anything to convince him to give it a chance.

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