Fake Trade Thread #3

[JMAC3]

I think a lot of people on the board are still in the we are rebuilding mindset and want to keep throwing darts at top 10 picks. To me, we have to think like this is our last year picking in the lottery and we need to be looking at guys that can win us games in the playoffs.

Lamelo, Rozier, Hayward, Bridges, PJ and 11 should be plenty of young/good guys to build around. Maybe we bring back Graham or Monk and then we still have money to spend.

I am looking for guys that can help us win now, not in 5 years.

[yosemiteben]

If we flipped Gordo this summer, what might that say to future possible FA’s about coming here, knowing we messed him around after just 1 season with us after doing nothing wrong (other than the unfortunate injury - which is not his doing)?

If he goes to GSW and wins a title, and we build a contender, it'll probably say that we have a competent FO. It's not exactly a Kemba situation where we'd be dumping him to a non-contender just to get rid of him.

[yosemiteben]

I think a lot of people on the board are still in the we are rebuilding mindset and want to keep throwing darts at top 10 picks. To me, we have to think like this is our last year picking in the lottery and we need to be looking at guys that can win us games in the playoffs.

Lamelo, Rozier, Hayward, Bridges, PJ and 11 should be plenty of young/good guys to build around. Maybe we bring back Graham or Monk and then we still have money to spend.

I am looking for guys that can help us win now, not in 5 years.

In his last 4 seasons, Hayward played 1, 72, 52, and 44 games respectively. I like him and am not desperate to move him, but I also don't understand the mindset of assuming he'll actually be healthy enough to help us when we need him. I just can't shake my nervousness around keeping a guy around that struggles to stay healthy because he's a good win now franchise player.

[JMAC3]

If we flipped Gordo this summer, what might that say to future possible FA’s about coming here, knowing we messed him around after just 1 season with us after doing nothing wrong (other than the unfortunate injury - which is not his doing)?

If he goes to GSW and wins a title, and we build a contender, it'll probably say that we have a competent FO. It's not exactly a Kemba situation where we'd be dumping him to a non-contender just to get rid of him.

What is Golden State giving us that makes us better than we are with Hayward though?

[BigSlam]

To me that's a totally overblown (and defeatist) mindset to have. Players go where they get paid the most and/or can play with buddies or a contender and/or a city they like. You think Hayward or his agent would be mad that he got traded to play with Steph, Klay, and Draymond?

Do you think trading him to anywhere else is going to be the deciding factor for someone like Richaun Holmes to pick a different team?

It can absolutely be a factor. Some front offices create bad reputations for themselves and it’s a factor at the bargaining table.

ESPECIALLY for players who have wives and young families. Wives don’t want to have to move across country every few years and reestablish local support networks and groups. And what they want to do even less is uproot young children and introduce them into new school systems and social groups every other year.

The old saying will always ring true: happy wife, happy life.

And let’s not kid ourselves- they players are human beings and have human being emotions, and challenges like most of us. They are not androids who aren’t impacted by influences outside of baseball.

[LofJ]

If we flipped Gordo this summer, what might that say to future possible FA’s about coming here, knowing we messed him around after just 1 season with us after doing nothing wrong (other than the unfortunate injury - which is not his doing)?

If he goes to GSW and wins a title, and we build a contender, it'll probably say that we have a competent FO. It's not exactly a Kemba situation where we'd be dumping him to a non-contender just to get rid of him.

What is Golden State giving us that makes us better than we are with Hayward though?

Maple Jordan bro, and he has Kinston, NC roots!

[yosemiteben]

If we flipped Gordo this summer, what might that say to future possible FA’s about coming here, knowing we messed him around after just 1 season with us after doing nothing wrong (other than the unfortunate injury - which is not his doing)?

If he goes to GSW and wins a title, and we build a contender, it'll probably say that we have a competent FO. It's not exactly a Kemba situation where we'd be dumping him to a non-contender just to get rid of him.

What is Golden State giving us that makes us better than we are with Hayward though?

Some variation of Wiseman + Wiggins + pick for Hayward + salary + pick is very interesting to me. Can't imagine it's particularly enticing for them, but not sure what the market for either Wiggins or Wiseman is.

[JMAC3]

If he goes to GSW and wins a title, and we build a contender, it'll probably say that we have a competent FO. It's not exactly a Kemba situation where we'd be dumping him to a non-contender just to get rid of him.

What is Golden State giving us that makes us better than we are with Hayward though?

Some variation of Wiseman + Wiggins + pick for Hayward + salary + pick is very interesting to me. Can't imagine it's particularly enticing for them, but not sure what the market for either Wiggins or Wiseman is.

As of now I do not see a huge difference between the 7th and 11th pick in this draft. Wiggins has never been a difference maker and Wiseman is a good prospect, but not sure they are more impactful than Hayward this season.

This feels like more of a rebuild trade for us, than trying to get better now.

[amcoolio]

Some of you are so desperate for a center that you go gaga for Myles Turner or James Wiseman and want to give up the rest of our assets for one of them

There are centers to be had that we don't have to give up assets or starters for. Holmes is every bit as good as Wiseman will be for the next 3 years. Kai Jones/Isaiah Jackson are not far off as prospects (Jackson might actually be a way better defensive prospect than Wiseman) and we can just draft them at 11.

We need rebounding and rim running. We need Capela. Christian Wood. Onyeka Okongwu. Isaiah Stewart. We don't need a PJ-type center like Turner or Wiseman who prefers to stay on the perimeter on offense and doesn't rebound on defense.

[LofJ]

We could also make another run at Montrezl Harrell if we're willing to give him a 3 year deal paying more than $9 million annually. He can't protect the rim, but he's a better rim runner and rebounder than anyone this summer not named Drummond (who I really, really hope we aren't pursuing).

[SWedd523]

To me that's a totally overblown (and defeatist) mindset to have. Players go where they get paid the most and/or can play with buddies or a contender and/or a city they like. You think Hayward or his agent would be mad that he got traded to play with Steph, Klay, and Draymond?

Do you think trading him to anywhere else is going to be the deciding factor for someone like Richaun Holmes to pick a different team?

It can absolutely be a factor. Some front offices create bad reputations for themselves and it’s a factor at the bargaining table.

ESPECIALLY for players who have wives and young families. Wives don’t want to have to move across country every few years and reestablish local support networks and groups. And what they want to do even less is uproot young children and introduce them into new school systems and social groups every other year.

The old saying will always ring true: happy wife, happy life.

And let’s not kid ourselves- they players are human beings and have human being emotions, and challenges like most of us. They are not androids who aren’t impacted by influences outside of baseball.

That's reaching. Would it make the individual they traded think twice about signing in the future? Maybe. But do you think Norman Powell is gonna be like "Man I really want to sign with Charlotte, but they did Gordon Hayward's wife dirty by trading him"?

No.

Name one team who nobody will sign with because they treat dudes poorly. Houston, Boston, Oklahoma City, New Jersey, etc. have all been absolutely cutthroat with how they ship dudes around and I don't see anyone black balling them.

[LofJ]

https://basketball.realgm.com/tradechecker/saved_trade/7444564

CHA out: Hayward, Rozier
CHA in: Wiggins, Wiseman, Lee, 7th pick

Ball/
Wiggins/
Bridges/
Washington/McDaniels
Wiseman/Carey

We go from being undersized to freaking huge and have the 7th + 11th picks to fill out the roster plus free agency.

[BigSlam]

Name one team who nobody will sign with because they treat dudes poorly. Houston, Boston, Oklahoma City, New Jersey, etc. have all been absolutely cutthroat with how they ship dudes around and I don't see anyone black balling them.

Not the NBA, I know, but a buddy of mine here in Canada has a brother who played in the NHL in the early 2000's. He had the opportunity to sign with the Atlanta Thrashers at one point but passed and ended up with the Panthers because the Thrashers had a reputation at the time around the league of not doing the right thing by some of their players. There was suggestions of heavy favoritism (boys club stuff) and a lack of sincerity/commitment to the players by the front office.

It 100% happens.

Of course, front offices change staff pretty regularly in most major sports so sometimes that stank can dissipate over time.

[JMAC3]

https://basketball.realgm.com/tradechecker/saved_trade/7444564

CHA out: Hayward, Rozier
CHA in: Wiggins, Wiseman, Lee, 7th pick

Ball/
Wiggins/
Bridges/
Washington/McDaniels
Wiseman/Carey

We go from being undersized to freaking huge and have the 7th + 11th picks to fill out the roster plus free agency.

Not sure the Warriors would do that from a team fit standpoint. On our end, cool we go back to winning like 25 games haha.

We are giving up the two best players in the trade.

I know it is in our nature to want to rebuild, construct a team and that is why most of us post because we enjoy that part of building a team. However, Wiseman might just be a losing player and the 7th pick in this draft is not going to be a day 1 difference maker.

Why not actually build a competitive team for this season?

[Braggins]

Spoiler:

https://basketball.realgm.com/tradechecker/saved_trade/7444564

CHA out: Hayward, Rozier
CHA in: Wiggins, Wiseman, Lee, 7th pick

Ball/
Wiggins/
Bridges/
Washington/McDaniels
Wiseman/Carey

We go from being undersized to freaking huge and have the 7th + 11th picks to fill out the roster plus free agency.

Not sure the Warriors would do that from a team fit standpoint. On our end, cool we go back to winning like 25 games haha.

We are giving up the two best players in the trade.

I know it is in our nature to want to rebuild, construct a team and that is why most of us post because we enjoy that part of building a team. However, Wiseman might just be a losing player and the 7th pick in this draft is not going to be a day 1 difference maker.

Why not actually build a competitive team for this season?

I thought about basically the same trade and wasn't sure how I felt about it honestly, but I was thinking about it specifically in the context of Scottie Barnes making it to the 7th pick, which I doubt actually happens, but would make a trade like this intriguing at least. I definitely wouldn't do it if we are choosing between JJohnson/Kuminga/Giddey/Moody/etc with the 7th pick.

So, basically Hayward + Rozier for Wiggins + Wiseman + Barnes, then maybe take someone like Moody (ideally) or Wagner (realistically) at 11.

Ball/Graham
Wiggins/Monk
Barnes/Wagner
Bridges/McDaniels
Wiseman/PJ/Zeller

I think that roster would be hella fun and could potentially sneak into the playoffs next year if Ball makes a leap in year two. I love Barnes. I think Wiggins is actually solid now, fits well enough, and he has one less year on his deal than Hayward. I like Wiseman, but can't deny hes a huge swing factor that still makes this trade kind of risky. Not resigning Terry and getting out of the last year of Haywards deal means the team would have a ton of cap space with Wiggins deal and the Batum stretch coming off the books at the same time right before LaMelo's extension.

Idk, I think it would be something worth considering because I don't think focusing on building for the Hayward window is a good idea anyways. I don't think they necessarily have to blow things like up like this and completely pivot away from trying to be good now (I think hedging is fine too), but if a good opportunity to add a bunch of young talent that fits LaMelo's prime window presented itself, I think you have to consider it because building for LaMelo's prime window seems pretty obviously to be the ideal path forward if the appropriate roster moves are available. I'm still cool with trying to win now if they don't make any short sighted moves that hurt the team long term (like trading picks/prospects for mid tier vets, or letting Monk walk for nothing so they can sign a slightly better mediocre veteran center).

[Vanderbilt_Grad]

Getting high draft picks year after year is no way to build a winning team. Just look at the Clippers back under Stirling for a prime example and they were drafting in the top 5 many years.

Instead both the Suns and Atlanta provide a much better model for a winning team. They have a mix of young rising guys and older ones who can really freaking play. In particular many of their vets have been deep into the playoffs before. If Charlotte trades away guys like Rozier & Hayward, they lose that.

[Rays Pompadour]

Getting high draft picks year after year is no way to build a winning team. Just look at the Clippers back under Stirling for a prime example and they were drafting in the top 5 many years.

Instead both the Suns and Atlanta provide a much better model for a winning team. They have a mix of young rising guys and older ones who can really freaking play. In particular many of their vets have been deep into the playoffs before. If Charlotte trades away guys like Rozier & Hayward, they lose that.

Agreed. I think it highly unlikely the Hornets trade either player. Their value to the franchise is greater than their anticipated return.

The corporate mindset seems clear - build through the draft, add key free agents and make trades that enhance the roster or add future assets. The win-now mentality isn't in Mitch Kupchak's DNA. He does want to win, but he aims to SUSTAIN winning, not push for a stop-gap or paradigm altering swap. If that weren't the case, he'd have made a big move for a center this spring instead of chasing ghosts.

Rozier and Hayward aren't going anywhere, no matter how fun it may be to fantasize about trades involving them. And I think that's good for the franchise.

[Chapelchilla]

IF you read the comments from Kupchak and Borrego regarding Hayward, his leadership and the importance that signing was to the Franchise, there is no way they trade him this year. If anything, Lamelo's early emergence makes his being on the roster even more important. It is not an accident we were actually good when he played and terrible when he did not. I think he will have a great year and the Hornets will have their best team since the Kemba-Lin-good Batum season. Maybe even more if we can sign a good C or 2.

[JMAC3]

Just read that Knicks may be interested in trading RJ Barrett for Beal, Lillard, Shai, Sexton or Rozier.

[HornetJail]

Just read that Knicks may be interested in trading RJ Barrett for Beal, Lillard, Shai, Sexton or Rozier.

I think the Sexton/Rozier part was separate from the Barrett part. simply that the Knicks have interest in those guys