Trade Talk (Part Seven)

[Foye]

Lets not pretend that Glen Taylor is going to accept spending 100 mil. per year on the trio of KAT, Simmons and D-Lo for his remaining time as owner.

Only $94 million next season.

90, 94, 97 or 100 whatever.
He is not going to do that. Going for Simmons means D-Lo will be dealt.

Not saying he is not willing to invest...but Taylor has always been tight with money.

[SO_MONEY]

Lets not pretend that Glen Taylor is going to accept spending 100 mil. per year on the trio of KAT, Simmons and D-Lo for his remaining time as owner.

Only $94 million next season.

90, 94, 97 or 100 whatever.
He is not going to do that. Going for Simmons means D-Lo will be dealt.

Not saying he is not willing to invest...but Taylor has always been tight with money.

No it doesn't, and if we trade for him it probably means a commitment to spend in the short-term at least. DLo isn't getting traded, I would love if we did trade him, not for Simmons though.

[Worm Guts]

Lets not pretend that Glen Taylor is going to accept spending 100 mil. per year on the trio of KAT, Simmons and D-Lo for his remaining time as owner.

Only $94 million next season.

90, 94, 97 or 100 whatever.
He is not going to do that. Going for Simmons means D-Lo will be dealt.

Not saying he is not willing to invest...but Taylor has always been tight with money.

Not always

[SO_MONEY]

Only $94 million next season.

90, 94, 97 or 100 whatever.
He is not going to do that. Going for Simmons means D-Lo will be dealt.

Not saying he is not willing to invest...but Taylor has always been tight with money.

Not always

I think he wants to try at nearly all costs before things transfer over...

I would say that is the likeliest of situations.

[76ciology]

Im not hard selling Ben. I mean who cares if you agree with me or not, it’s not like they make trades based on sentiments on REALGM.

This is what i posted on our board:

Ben would be a great fit for the Wolves.

Think of this KAT pick and popping on Ben.
DLo setting invert screen on Ben.
DLo and Ben PnR while KAT spacing the floor.

These actions opens opportunities for Ben to drive to the rim.

Remember how Ben’s chemistry with JJ and Dario, he can have that with those 2.

Man.. if I’m rich paul, I’ll even demand Ben to be traded to the Wolves.

Ben is the perfect frontcourt player to play with KAT. And the perfect backcourt player for DLo. Even on defense.

Watch on YouTube

Watch this clip and this is how Ben’s gonna play with the Wolves

We didnt have Jojo this game. We played with a smallball unit. And Gobert was defending Ben because he didnt want to be taken out of the paint.

If you have a frontcourt of Ben and KAT. Will you put your center on KAT and take him out from the paint? You will most likely put him on Ben.

Ben then can have an advantage because he’s quicker than any centers.

KAT has no trouble staying outside the 3pt line because he’s like the steph curry of centers with how he shoot 3s

Down the stretch Wolves can run DLo-Ben PnR or Dump the ball for a 1v1 for KAT.

[IceManBK1]

Ben simmons bought a house in LA... CA bound? If warriors offer #7, Wiseman and Wiggins for Simmons. We can't match that offer.

[Baseline81]

Ben simmons bought a house in LA... CA bound? If warriors offer #7, Wiseman and Wiggins for Simmons. We can't match that offer.

A few problems with that Warriors' offer:

- Outside of the supposed top-4 or -6 (Cunningham, Green, Mobley, Suggs and then Kuminga and Barnes), is there a difference between the 7th overall pick and one in the teens?
- Unless Wiseman is used in another trade, Philly doesn't need a backup center. What is Wiseman's value?
- Simmons is the team's second star behind Embiid. I think the 76ers would rather have McCollum or Beasley.

[SO_MONEY]

Ben simmons bought a house in LA... CA bound? If warriors offer #7, Wiseman and Wiggins for Simmons. We can't match that offer.

A few problems with that Warriors' offer:

- Outside of the supposed top-4 or -6 (Cunningham, Green, Mobley, Suggs and then Kuminga and Barnes), is there a difference between the 7th overall pick and one in the teens?
- Unless Wiseman is used in another trade, Philly doesn't need a backup center. What is Wiseman's value?
- Simmons is the team's second star behind Embiid. I think the 76ers would rather have McCollum or Beasley.

All good points.

1. I would say Kuminga and Barnes or pick 5 and 6 have less value than the historical norm. I would say pick 5 and 6 will not be worth their salaries, this probably holds up to pick 10 give or take...on the surface it is hard to find a pick that doesn't have glaring weaknesses and need vast development to be NBA ready after pick 4.

2. Wiseman is an okay prospect, but he is raw and a team needs to concurrently invest time and money (9mil) in him, this reduces his value considerably. Naz for instance costs a fraction, is only a year older and puts up better numbers. That said the right team a patient team, would view Wiseman as a positive and not be overly concerned with his salary if they had no intention to use space.

3. No idea what they want or what they can get.

[Howard Cosell]

Im not hard selling Ben. I mean who cares if you agree with me or not, it’s not like they make trades based on sentiments on REALGM.

This is what i posted on our board:

Ben would be a great fit for the Wolves.

Think of this KAT pick and popping on Ben.
DLo setting invert screen on Ben.
DLo and Ben PnR while KAT spacing the floor.

These actions opens opportunities for Ben to drive to the rim.

Remember how Ben’s chemistry with JJ and Dario, he can have that with those 2.

Man.. if I’m rich paul, I’ll even demand Ben to be traded to the Wolves.

Ben is the perfect frontcourt player to play with KAT. And the perfect backcourt player for DLo. Even on defense.

Watch on YouTube

Watch this clip and this is how Ben’s gonna play with the Wolves

We didnt have Jojo this game. We played with a smallball unit. And Gobert was defending Ben because he didnt want to be taken out of the paint.

If you have a frontcourt of Ben and KAT. Will you put your center on KAT and take him out from the paint? You will most likely put him on Ben.

Ben then can have an advantage because he’s quicker than any centers.

KAT has no trouble staying outside the 3pt line because he’s like the steph curry of centers with how he shoot 3s

Down the stretch Wolves can run DLo-Ben PnR or Dump the ball for a 1v1 for KAT.

We get it….but ya not getting Edwards.

[Neeva]

Ben simmons bought a house in LA... CA bound? If warriors offer #7, Wiseman and Wiggins for Simmons. We can't match that offer.

If takes the pick just to unload wiggins dude.

[76ciology]

Ben simmons bought a house in LA... CA bound? If warriors offer #7, Wiseman and Wiggins for Simmons. We can't match that offer.

A few problems with that Warriors' offer:

- Outside of the supposed top-4 or -6 (Cunningham, Green, Mobley, Suggs and then Kuminga and Barnes), is there a difference between the 7th overall pick and one in the teens?
- Unless Wiseman is used in another trade, Philly doesn't need a backup center. What is Wiseman's value?
- Simmons is the team's second star behind Embiid. I think the 76ers would rather have McCollum or Beasley.

Sixers can find a third team for that. Maybe even add more to that package and send it to the Raps for Siakam. I dont mind a Siakam-Embiid combination.

Maybe even send Siakam and more assets for Dame.

[Klomp]

Ben simmons bought a house in LA... CA bound? If warriors offer #7, Wiseman and Wiggins for Simmons. We can't match that offer.

Having an offseason house doesn't mean anything

[Slim Tubby]

Im not hard selling Ben. I mean who cares if you agree with me or not, it’s not like they make trades based on sentiments on REALGM.

This is what i posted on our board:

Ben would be a great fit for the Wolves.

Think of this KAT pick and popping on Ben.
DLo setting invert screen on Ben.
DLo and Ben PnR while KAT spacing the floor.

These actions opens opportunities for Ben to drive to the rim.

Remember how Ben’s chemistry with JJ and Dario, he can have that with those 2.

Man.. if I’m rich paul, I’ll even demand Ben to be traded to the Wolves.

Ben is the perfect frontcourt player to play with KAT. And the perfect backcourt player for DLo. Even on defense.

Watch on YouTube

Watch this clip and this is how Ben’s gonna play with the Wolves

We didnt have Jojo this game. We played with a smallball unit. And Gobert was defending Ben because he didnt want to be taken out of the paint.

If you have a frontcourt of Ben and KAT. Will you put your center on KAT and take him out from the paint? You will most likely put him on Ben.

Ben then can have an advantage because he’s quicker than any centers.

KAT has no trouble staying outside the 3pt line because he’s like the steph curry of centers with how he shoot 3s

Down the stretch Wolves can run DLo-Ben PnR or Dump the ball for a 1v1 for KAT.

We get it….but ya not getting Edwards.

Any Sixers fan that believes Simmons’ value is even in the same stratosphere as Ant’s simply doesn’t watch enough basketball. I’d offer Beasley, Rubio, Okogie and 2 future FRP’s (Top 8 Protected) and that’s it but I wouldn’t blame them for rejecting it.

Embiid is a monster if he can stay healthy and worth every penny of his Max. The bigger issue for PHI is the Tobias Harris Max deal. That will be much tougher to unload than Ben. If the Sixers couldn’t win the pathetic East this season with almost all the other teams crippled by injuries, they have ZERO chance of doing this in the future with their current “Big 3”. That has to be a very depressing realization for Sixers fans.


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[Klomp]

Read on Twitter

[shrink]

Lets not pretend that Glen Taylor is going to accept spending 100 mil. per year on the trio of KAT, Simmons and D-Lo for his remaining time as owner.

Only $94 million next season.

90, 94, 97 or 100 whatever.
He is not going to do that. Going for Simmons means D-Lo will be dealt.

Not saying he is not willing to invest...but Taylor has always been tight with money.

I really don’t know why this fallacy continues to exist.

The Wolves don’t draw fans when they aren’t a contender, and that’s when Taylor doesn’t go into the lux. That’s what most owners do. Most owners are also leery of three max deals without a top 10 player among them. However, when MIN has been a legit contender, Taylor has always been willing to spend, like when he went over the lux with Spree and Cassell. In the past, Taylor was also the guy that spent so much on a contract (Garnett), that the other owners got scared, and instituted max deals rules in the CBA. Finally, Taylor went over the lux the year before last, even without a contender, to let Rosas complete all the trades he wanted. And this season, he allowed Rosas to go into the lux to offer max deals to Crowder and Derrick Jones Jr - they just chose other teams.

I am not a huge fan of the higher prices I’ve heard mentioned for Ben Simmons. I feel Simmons would be tremendous defensively, but his inability to shoot would stifle Towns and Edwards, by leaving Ben’s opposing defender stacked underneath. However, Taylor never seemed to me to be the stumbling block. If anything, his age would encourage him to add Simmons, gain wins, and go out on a more positive note for his legacy.

[shrink]

Read on Twitter

Simmons passing up another dunk?

[shrink]

What is the correct offer for Ben Simmons?

If I was PHI, I would either want a package with DLo (I’m not a fan, but he checks many boxes for PHI), plus assets - maybe Beasley and Naz. DLo helps Morey win the press conference, because he was an All Star, and he is good at many of the skills PHI desperately needed in the playoffs.

If DLo isn’t in the offer, I would want Rubio, Beasley, McDaniels, and an unprotected future 1st. As a MIN fan, I personally would not want to see Rosas give up that much. However, if you look at historical deals for star players, they aren’t usually just 2-3 good players. Star players are the true value of the league - they determine franchises. Good players and “top 8 protected,” picks don’t leave any window for the upside to get a star back.

——-

For me, I am very concerned with Simmons. I think he will be traded before the season starts. It seems virtually impossible for him to stay in PHI, after his poor playoff performance cost them this chance, Embiid throwing him under the bus, Doc refusing to stick up for him, the boisterous PHI fans going after him, and PHI media is tough. If Simmons can’t regain his confidence and shoot better, he can’t be worth that big long contract with the bulk of his value coming on the defensive end. If he can’t fix these problems, he will be constantly targeted and schemed against, particularly in the playoffs.

Trades only work when both sides benefit, and while I think of all the teams in the NBA, Ben has the least value in PHI. I assume he will be traded, but I don’t know if he has the most in MIN. True, MIN fans will embrace him and the media is less severe. KAT and DLo will make the game easier for him on the offensive side. But do we see him fixing his confidence and shooting here? Does being next to his pals KAT and DLo help, or hurt his need to improve? If DLo is part of the trade, does guard-whisperer Rubio help Ben? And could you even play Ben and Ricky together with the lack of shooting?

With all the risk his salary creates if Ben doesn’t fix himself, I hope Rosas goes in a different direction.

[Klomp]

Other than Beasley and Rubio what would we give them? I wouldn’t trade MCD for Simmons and Ant, KAT, and Dlo are all likely off limits. Okogie and a pick might do it, but I have to believe the 76ers are getting better offers than that for Simmons.

Assuming Towns, Edwards and Russell are off-limits as has been reported (and how it should be), the next most valuable assets after Rubio and Beasley are going to be McDaniels, Reid and picks.

I would be extremely hesitant to include McDaniels. I'm more willing to include Reid, though he probably has more value to a third team (Toronto?).

I too thought Reid to TOR would be a great foundation to a 3-team deal, Reid would probably start for them. I actually think there are legs to this, IF Philadelphia wants a guy like Lowery.

My previous post here got me thinking. With limited room under the tax and discussing a trade here where we are removing three or four players and only taking back one (at the moment), we need to be talking more about some of the bigger price tags on the roster. Still not touching the top three guys, but further down the books. Sure, these guys could be moved in other trades, but I think there's value in throwing in bits of value in a trade like this that can still serve a greater purpose on our end.

Three guys we haven't really discussed as trade pieces are Culver, Hernangomez and Okogie. I don't think Culver is really the right fit for this particular trade, but let me focus on the other two guys. First of all, the fact that both Okogie and Hernangomez can essentially be expiring contracts will have appeal to both teams in trade talks. I think PHI would see more value in Okogie, while Hernangomez might have more value for TOR. Sending out these higher-priced guys while taking chances on some young guys and/or draft picks may be a route to explore, while these other teams get younger vets and guys they can use in future salary-matching. Toronto has picks 46 and 47, while Philadelphia has 50. These may seem inconsequential, but not when adding another max salary slot to the books. We are coming to the end of Reid on a bargain deal, we need to start replenishing!

[Klomp]

For me, I am very concerned with Simmons. I think he will be traded before the season starts. It seems virtually impossible for him to stay in PHI, after his poor playoff performance cost them this chance, Embiid throwing him under the bus, Doc refusing to stick up for him, the boisterous PHI fans going after him, and PHI media is tough. If Simmons can’t regain his confidence and shoot better, he can’t be worth that big long contract with the bulk of his value coming on the defensive end. If he can’t fix these problems, he will be constantly targeted and schemed against, particularly in the playoffs.

Trades only work when both sides benefit, and while I think of all the teams in the NBA, Ben has the least value in PHI. I assume he will be traded, but I don’t know if he has the most in MIN. True, MIN fans will embrace him and the media is less severe. KAT and DLo will make the game easier for him on the offensive side. But do we see him fixing his confidence and shooting here? Does being next to his pals KAT and DLo help, or hurt his need to improve? If DLo is part of the trade, does guard-whisperer Rubio help Ben? And could you even play Ben and Ricky together with the lack of shooting?

With all the risk his salary creates if Ben doesn’t fix himself, I hope Rosas goes in a different direction.

He doesn't have to become JJ Redick here. He doesn't even need to become Taj Gibson. If he shoots his regular season FT percentage, I consider that "fixed" with everything else he brings to the table. I like the odds of that happening.

You are right, PHI isn't right for him anymore. Doesn't mean those are his problems per se. I don't blame him for what has transpired, other than needing to continue to work on his game. But I say that about any player in the offseason.

[shrink]

Three guys we haven't really discussed as trade pieces are Culver, Hernangomez and Okogie. I don't think Culver is really the right fit for this particular trade, but let me focus on the other two guys. First of all, the fact that both Okogie and Hernangomez can essentially be expiring contracts will have appeal to both teams in trade talks. I think PHI would see more value in Okogie, while Hernangomez might have more value for TOR. Sending out these higher-priced guys while taking chances on some young guys and/or draft picks may be a route to explore, while these other teams get younger vets and guys they can use in future salary-matching. Toronto has picks 46 and 47, while Philadelphia has 50. These may seem inconsequential, but not when adding another max salary slot to the books. We are coming to the end of Reid on a bargain deal, we need to start replenishing!

I just thought I’d mention that I saw some PHI support on the trade board for

Juancho + $3 mil cash for cap space + #50

They see Juancho as an upgrade over Mike Scott, and they would likely sell that pick anyway. MIN buys the pick (PHI has to send.. “something”, but mostly uses the $3 mil cash to pay part of Juancho’s salary and get him off the books.

I really like it for MIN, and kind of see the point for PHI.