Hal’s Draft Thread

[winsomme2]

I'd only stash #45 if I really liked the prospect.

The guys we could draft at 45 I would expect to contribute next season. I know you think second picks are a complete crap shoot but this year seems different to me. A Kessler Edwards for example is a guy who could play from day one. Moses Wright. Herb Jones, Johnny juzang, many others are better than guys on our current roster IMO.

If they have an international guy rated ahead or close to who's on the board at 45 from here I don't have an issue stashing. But I would expect them to take a higher rated guy at 45 and find the roster spot to make it work otherwise.

[playa-hater]

I don't expect Edwards back.

you mean you don't believe in 5'11 shooting guards that cant make shots or pass??

[playa-hater]

Yeah, I’ve heard the same. Brad/Ime don’t want any more young guys that can’t contribute.

Pretty easily could open up spots by moving on from Waters and Edwards, no?

I agree that we don't want a roster filled with players who can't play, but lets move on from the ones that we know can't contribute instead of wasting more draft picks.

If looking to draft and stash, perhaps give this guy some consideration.

Watch on YouTube

please no more guards in RD 2. get me a high ceiling player for once.. In this year's draft there are plenty of good quality non guards to pick from.

[ICeeYou]

I'd only stash #45 if I really liked the prospect.

The guys we could draft at 45 I would expect to contribute next season. I know you think second picks are a complete crap shoot but this year seems different to me. A Kessler Edwards for example is a guy who could play from day one. Moses Wright. Herb Jones, Johnny juzang, many others are better than guys on our current roster IMO.

If they have an international guy rated ahead or close to who's on the board at 45 from here I don't have an issue stashing. But I would expect them to take a higher rated guy at 45 and find the roster spot to make it work otherwise.

Better than guys on the current roster, as in better than whom? Romeo? Nesmith? Grant Williams? Jabari Parker? Edwards?

Are they better than someone like Rudy Gay? Danny Green? Evan Fournier?

I think that sure, maybe one of those guys pops but there is a reason that 44 guys will be drafted ahead of the guy who is there at 45. All those guys you listed have their own severe limitations to their game. They just haven’t been exposed by the merciless NBA game yet.

Nor have you had the pleasure of picking them apart on a nightly basis.

Grant, Romeo, Tre Waters, Edwards, Semi and Nesmith all flashed some serious skills/talents in college. So did James Young and Jared Sullinger, and Fab Melo. The draft is hard. It’s also hard to develop when you have 7 other guys who need development time too.

And that’s probably something that Ime and Brad have to figure out. How much coaching time do you want the new staff spending on teaching half the roster the NBA game vs. having a more veteran group that can grasp what needs to be grasped in a walk through after morning shoot around.

[winsomme2]

We can both start just listing guys... I get that.

My point is Edwards and waters aren't projects anymore. They simply are taking up roster spots.

To punt on #45 in a loaded draft to keep guys like that is completely backwards IMO.

Again. Let's see how this plays out. I expect a lot more changes and that includes signing a FA and using this pick.

[winsomme2]

I don't expect Edwards back.

you mean you don't believe in 5'11 shooting guards that cant make shots or pass??

Yeah just no role for him. Seems like a hard working kid, but this is not the place for him now.

[return2glory]

Potential target with pick 45.

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

He is a really good defender. Solid rebounder also and an underrated passer. But he can't shoot or else he would be a 1st rounder.

[ICeeYou]

We can both start just listing guys... I get that.

My point is Edwards and waters aren't projects anymore. They simply are taking up roster spots.

To punt on #45 in a loaded draft to keep guys like that is completely backwards IMO.

Again. Let's see how this plays out. I expect a lot more changes and that includes signing a FA and using this pick.

Waters is basically irrelevant to the discussion.

Edwards has a guaranteed contract. Do I think he’s essential to next years roster? No, I don’t.

But I think barring them finding a deal where he’s a sweetener, they probably will have him on the roster over the 45th pick because he’s got a couple years of NBA experience and a contract.

If they do move him for a future second rounder, I hope it’s to clear a roster spot for a veteran on the minimum and not another prayer of a second round pick.

[winsomme2]

I'm fine with that. I'm not against signing FAs. I'm against picking a lower rated guy at 45 just to stash him overseas.

The real issue here is that I see first round talent available at 45 in THIS draft. If you see this draft just like any other then that's fine. We just disagree on that.


Hey let's just keep Yam overseas another year boom there's your stash guy... Problem solved

[ICeeYou]

I'm fine with that. I'm not against signing FAs. I'm against picking a lower rated guy at 45 just to stash him overseas.

The real issue here is that I see first round talent available at 45 in THIS draft. If you see this draft just like any other then that's fine. We just disagree on that.


Hey let's just keep Yam overseas another year boom there's your stash guy... Problem solved

Haha, I see a lot of guys from 16-45 that have a chance to be solid role players in the NBA. I don’t see a ton of guys who look like starters or stars.

I also don’t see many PG prospects in that second round area. But, yeah, I could see Yam getting stashed another year if he struggles in workouts/summer league.

But I do see Yam having a chance to step in and be that 3rd PG with some pro experience under his belt.

I just find it hard to get gassed up about adding a second round talent to a team with 7-8 rookie contract guys on a team in desperate need of vets.

I’d welcome another stash even if just to have a guy like Yam to get irrationally excited about for a year or two lol

[winsomme2]

I'm fine with that. I'm not against signing FAs. I'm against picking a lower rated guy at 45 just to stash him overseas.

The real issue here is that I see first round talent available at 45 in THIS draft. If you see this draft just like any other then that's fine. We just disagree on that.


Hey let's just keep Yam overseas another year boom there's your stash guy... Problem solved

Haha, I see a lot of guys from 16-45 that have a chance to be solid role players in the NBA. I don’t see a ton of guys who look like starters or stars.

I also don’t see many PG prospects in that second round area. But, yeah, I could see Yam getting stashed another year if he struggles in workouts/summer league.

But I do see Yam having a chance to step in and be that 3rd PG with some pro experience under his belt.

I just find it hard to get gassed up about adding a second round talent to a team with 7-8 rookie contract guys on a team in desperate need of vets.

I’d welcome another stash even if just to have a guy like Yam to get irrationally excited about for a year or two lol

I hear you. And like I said I'm not against FAs. I'd love to see a consolidation trade to get more room.

But I really do think we view this draft differently. Sounds to me like you could take it or leave it. I definitely see starting talent available at 45.

[ICeeYou]

I'm fine with that. I'm not against signing FAs. I'm against picking a lower rated guy at 45 just to stash him overseas.

The real issue here is that I see first round talent available at 45 in THIS draft. If you see this draft just like any other then that's fine. We just disagree on that.


Hey let's just keep Yam overseas another year boom there's your stash guy... Problem solved

Haha, I see a lot of guys from 16-45 that have a chance to be solid role players in the NBA. I don’t see a ton of guys who look like starters or stars.

I also don’t see many PG prospects in that second round area. But, yeah, I could see Yam getting stashed another year if he struggles in workouts/summer league.

But I do see Yam having a chance to step in and be that 3rd PG with some pro experience under his belt.

I just find it hard to get gassed up about adding a second round talent to a team with 7-8 rookie contract guys on a team in desperate need of vets.

I’d welcome another stash even if just to have a guy like Yam to get irrationally excited about for a year or two lol

I hear you. And like I said I'm not against FAs. I'd love to see a consolidation trade to get more room.

But I really do think we view this draft differently. Sounds to me like you could take it or leave it. I definitely see starting talent available at 45.

Ok give me your top 5 of guys that you see as being available after the 40th pick in the draft.

Because in the last 10 drafts, I’d say that there’s probably less than 10 guys drafted after the 40th pick that you’d be thrilled to draft. 10 out of 200 in the last 10 years. So maybe you will be 1 of the 20 draft picks that hits this year haha

If the Celtics had a whole new front office with like Sam Presti I’d probably be more excited. But maybe now that Brad is ultimately making the call he will have the Midas touch.

I like some of the guys, but I don’t see a ton of separation between the PG prospects in that range and Yam. The Celtics need a PG of some sort so, a little competition in camp between Yam, Waters, and Edwards for that spot is fine for me (largely because I really want the ball in Brown and Tatum’s hands a lot. And because I have a sneaky feeling Romeo could thrive under a new voice at head coach).

I’m hoping the Celtics can move Thompson and a rookie scale player/pick for a legitimate contributor. Edwards still probably holds some value as a toss in because frankly, he has decent tape (when he gets it going he’s a fun little spark plug) and sneaky athleticism. He also seems like extremely young in his personality (which is not a plus watching the growing pains but is something you can use to trick yourself into thinking he may mature) from the outside looking in.

The funny thing is that the Celtics have picked up some guys and let them go really early who’ve gone on to be decent pros. I’m thinking of Royce O’Neale, the Stanford kid in Dallas, E’Twaun, etc.

Unceremoniously dumping someone like Edwards or Grant can not really kill you, but it could backfire on a small scale at times.

My main point is that, I agree that a consolidation trade would be ideal. Gives them a bit more room to maneuver. Barring that, I’m giving preference to Ime being able to find some vets to help him build that culture he wants.

Im sort of going on the suspicion that Fournier will be a cap (luxury tax) casualty. If he leaves, I really think you’re going to need a full bargain hunt for veterans to have enough stability in the lineup.

There’s definitely a path to doing both. But if you can’t get that done, you gotta give an edge to the draft-stash + vet combination.

[BostonCouchGM]

Haha, I see a lot of guys from 16-45 that have a chance to be solid role players in the NBA. I don’t see a ton of guys who look like starters or stars.

I also don’t see many PG prospects in that second round area. But, yeah, I could see Yam getting stashed another year if he struggles in workouts/summer league.

But I do see Yam having a chance to step in and be that 3rd PG with some pro experience under his belt.

I just find it hard to get gassed up about adding a second round talent to a team with 7-8 rookie contract guys on a team in desperate need of vets.

I’d welcome another stash even if just to have a guy like Yam to get irrationally excited about for a year or two lol

I hear you. And like I said I'm not against FAs. I'd love to see a consolidation trade to get more room.

But I really do think we view this draft differently. Sounds to me like you could take it or leave it. I definitely see starting talent available at 45.

Ok give me your top 5 of guys that you see as being available after the 40th pick in the draft.

Because in the last 10 drafts, I’d say that there’s probably less than 10 guys drafted after the 40th pick that you’d be thrilled to draft. 10 out of 200 in the last 10 years. So maybe you will be 1 of the 20 draft picks that hits this year haha

If the Celtics had a whole new front office with like Sam Presti I’d probably be more excited. But maybe now that Brad is ultimately making the call he will have the Midas touch.

I like some of the guys, but I don’t see a ton of separation between the PG prospects in that range and Yam. The Celtics need a PG of some sort so, a little competition in camp between Yam, Waters, and Edwards for that spot is fine for me (largely because I really want the ball in Brown and Tatum’s hands a lot. And because I have a sneaky feeling Romeo could thrive under a new voice at head coach).

I’m hoping the Celtics can move Thompson and a rookie scale player/pick for a legitimate contributor. Edwards still probably holds some value as a toss in because frankly, he has decent tape (when he gets it going he’s a fun little spark plug) and sneaky athleticism. He also seems like extremely young in his personality (which is not a plus watching the growing pains but is something you can use to trick yourself into thinking he may mature) from the outside looking in.

The funny thing is that the Celtics have picked up some guys and let them go really early who’ve gone on to be decent pros. I’m thinking of Royce O’Neale, the Stanford kid in Dallas, E’Twaun, etc.

Unceremoniously dumping someone like Edwards or Grant can not really kill you, but it could backfire on a small scale at times.

My main point is that, I agree that a consolidation trade would be ideal. Gives them a bit more room to maneuver. Barring that, I’m giving preference to Ime being able to find some vets to help him build that culture he wants.

Im sort of going on the suspicion that Fournier will be a cap (luxury tax) casualty. If he leaves, I really think you’re going to need a full bargain hunt for veterans to have enough stability in the lineup.

There’s definitely a path to doing both. But if you can’t get that done, you gotta give an edge to the draft-stash + vet combination.

after 40? just in the last two drafts there's been over a dozen who I'd rather have than what we had on the bench:

Bol
THT
Reid
Woodard
Reed
Stanley
Roby
McDaniels
Paschall
Brissett
Dort
Hall
Mane

going back 10 years? I'd add:

Barton
Bertans
Jokic
Powell
Clarkson
Bryant
Brooks
Diallo
Metu
Milton
Tate
Forbes
Caruso
VanVleet
Wood
Theis
Covington
Dragic
Robinson
Nunn

if you are good at evaluating talent, it can be found at all points during and even after the draft. Danny's draft futility is why we've had one of the worst benches in the league.

[playa-hater]

I hear you. And like I said I'm not against FAs. I'd love to see a consolidation trade to get more room.

But I really do think we view this draft differently. Sounds to me like you could take it or leave it. I definitely see starting talent available at 45.

Ok give me your top 5 of guys that you see as being available after the 40th pick in the draft.

Because in the last 10 drafts, I’d say that there’s probably less than 10 guys drafted after the 40th pick that you’d be thrilled to draft. 10 out of 200 in the last 10 years. So maybe you will be 1 of the 20 draft picks that hits this year haha

If the Celtics had a whole new front office with like Sam Presti I’d probably be more excited. But maybe now that Brad is ultimately making the call he will have the Midas touch.

I like some of the guys, but I don’t see a ton of separation between the PG prospects in that range and Yam. The Celtics need a PG of some sort so, a little competition in camp between Yam, Waters, and Edwards for that spot is fine for me (largely because I really want the ball in Brown and Tatum’s hands a lot. And because I have a sneaky feeling Romeo could thrive under a new voice at head coach).

I’m hoping the Celtics can move Thompson and a rookie scale player/pick for a legitimate contributor. Edwards still probably holds some value as a toss in because frankly, he has decent tape (when he gets it going he’s a fun little spark plug) and sneaky athleticism. He also seems like extremely young in his personality (which is not a plus watching the growing pains but is something you can use to trick yourself into thinking he may mature) from the outside looking in.

The funny thing is that the Celtics have picked up some guys and let them go really early who’ve gone on to be decent pros. I’m thinking of Royce O’Neale, the Stanford kid in Dallas, E’Twaun, etc.

Unceremoniously dumping someone like Edwards or Grant can not really kill you, but it could backfire on a small scale at times.

My main point is that, I agree that a consolidation trade would be ideal. Gives them a bit more room to maneuver. Barring that, I’m giving preference to Ime being able to find some vets to help him build that culture he wants.

Im sort of going on the suspicion that Fournier will be a cap (luxury tax) casualty. If he leaves, I really think you’re going to need a full bargain hunt for veterans to have enough stability in the lineup.

There’s definitely a path to doing both. But if you can’t get that done, you gotta give an edge to the draft-stash + vet combination.

after 40? just in the last two drafts there's been over a dozen who I'd rather have than what we had on the bench:

Bol
THT
Reid
Woodard
Reed
Stanley
Roby
McDaniels
Paschall
Brissett
Dort
Hall
Mane

going back 10 years? I'd add:

Barton
Bertans
Jokic
Powell
Clarkson
Bryant
Brooks
Diallo
Metu
Milton
Tate
Forbes
Caruso
VanVleet
Wood
Theis
Covington
Dragic
Robinson
Nunn

if you are good at evaluating talent, it can be found at all points during and even after the draft. Danny's draft futility is why we've had one of the worst benches in the league.

EDIT

I can't agree more

[ICeeYou]

I hear you. And like I said I'm not against FAs. I'd love to see a consolidation trade to get more room.

But I really do think we view this draft differently. Sounds to me like you could take it or leave it. I definitely see starting talent available at 45.

Ok give me your top 5 of guys that you see as being available after the 40th pick in the draft.

Because in the last 10 drafts, I’d say that there’s probably less than 10 guys drafted after the 40th pick that you’d be thrilled to draft. 10 out of 200 in the last 10 years. So maybe you will be 1 of the 20 draft picks that hits this year haha

If the Celtics had a whole new front office with like Sam Presti I’d probably be more excited. But maybe now that Brad is ultimately making the call he will have the Midas touch.

I like some of the guys, but I don’t see a ton of separation between the PG prospects in that range and Yam. The Celtics need a PG of some sort so, a little competition in camp between Yam, Waters, and Edwards for that spot is fine for me (largely because I really want the ball in Brown and Tatum’s hands a lot. And because I have a sneaky feeling Romeo could thrive under a new voice at head coach).

I’m hoping the Celtics can move Thompson and a rookie scale player/pick for a legitimate contributor. Edwards still probably holds some value as a toss in because frankly, he has decent tape (when he gets it going he’s a fun little spark plug) and sneaky athleticism. He also seems like extremely young in his personality (which is not a plus watching the growing pains but is something you can use to trick yourself into thinking he may mature) from the outside looking in.

The funny thing is that the Celtics have picked up some guys and let them go really early who’ve gone on to be decent pros. I’m thinking of Royce O’Neale, the Stanford kid in Dallas, E’Twaun, etc.

Unceremoniously dumping someone like Edwards or Grant can not really kill you, but it could backfire on a small scale at times.

My main point is that, I agree that a consolidation trade would be ideal. Gives them a bit more room to maneuver. Barring that, I’m giving preference to Ime being able to find some vets to help him build that culture he wants.

Im sort of going on the suspicion that Fournier will be a cap (luxury tax) casualty. If he leaves, I really think you’re going to need a full bargain hunt for veterans to have enough stability in the lineup.

There’s definitely a path to doing both. But if you can’t get that done, you gotta give an edge to the draft-stash + vet combination.

after 40? just in the last two drafts there's been over a dozen who I'd rather have than what we had on the bench:

Bol
THT
Reid
Woodard
Reed
Stanley
Roby
McDaniels
Paschall
Brissett
Dort
Hall
Mane

going back 10 years? I'd add:

Barton
Bertans
Jokic
Powell
Clarkson
Bryant
Brooks
Diallo
Metu
Milton
Tate
Forbes
Caruso
VanVleet
Wood
Theis
Covington
Dragic
Robinson
Nunn

if you are good at evaluating talent, it can be found at all points during and even after the draft. Danny's draft futility is why we've had one of the worst benches in the league.

Im talking about guys that you will actually go out and spend big on a second contract, starter and above types.

None of the rookies after 40 did anything of real note this season. Terrence Mann, Horton Tucker and Jalen McDaniels all look solid with Mann showing probably the most flashes from last year. Bol Bol and Paschall are replacement level guys who’ve not done a ton yet. So we have basically 3-4 career backups at best in that group.

2018 - Bruce Brown meh… Melton, okay. Milton, okay. Better than Edwards but not exactly setting the world on fire. Bryant, Brooks and Monte Morris in 2017.

So we are already a few drafts in and not much is really happening here to change My math. You’re 80 picks in and you are sort of searching for a starter among them 4 years later.

2016 there is almost no one worth mentioning. The Celtics however did have 3 shots at it and struck out, or at best foul tipped the Nader pick.

2015, they produced some talent for sure though. Josh Richardson, Connaughton and Powell have all taken some time but are solid wings.

2014 is headlined by Jokic but don’t sleep on Clarkson… otherwise it all busts and Dwight Powell.

Every year there are interesting names and athletes but most of them take years and multiples teams to figure it out.

It’s really not a likely spot to hit on a player. For all those hits, most of those organizations missed the year prior or following it in a similar spot.

This of course has no bearing on the future but the odds of hitting on one of these picks at a level that will really hurt are basicallly 1 or 2 out of every 40-60 picks.

[winsomme2]

If you want to think percentages, let's talk 100%.

I would literally take every player taken in the second round last year over Edwards and Waters.

And this current draft IMO is deeper than that draft.

If Brad and Co do their homework on this draft, I think they will see that talent there. And that's why I expect this pick to be made on a player that will be on our roster next year.

[ICeeYou]

If you want to think percentages, let's talk 100%.

I would literally take every player taken in the second round last year over Edwards and Waters.

And this current draft IMO is deeper than that draft.

If Brad and Co do their homework on this draft, I think they will see that talent there. And that's why I expect this pick to be made on a player that will be on our roster next year.

That’s great. But none of them have really proven a whole lot. Having a preference for other guys is understandable. the question for me is whether a guy will make an impact on wins and losses.

And none of those guys are really at that level.

[Andrew McCeltic]

Trying to remember second-round picks we’ve done ok on.. Orien Greene, Justin Reed, Semi..

The safest bet is usually guys with NBA bodies and transferable defense.. low upside, but the talent to be a reliable end of the bench roleplayer..

[winsomme2]

If you want to think percentages, let's talk 100%.

I would literally take every player taken in the second round last year over Edwards and Waters.

And this current draft IMO is deeper than that draft.

If Brad and Co do their homework on this draft, I think they will see that talent there. And that's why I expect this pick to be made on a player that will be on our roster next year.

That’s great. But none of them have really proven a whole lot. Having a preference for other guys is understandable. the question for me is whether a guy will make an impact on wins and losses.

And none of those guys are really at that level.

It's more than a preference. It's a preference based on the recognition that we have roster spots devoted to players who we know can't contribute.

Once you know that, it changes how you look at your assets.

[gocelts]

62 page thread about the 45th pick…love the fanatics on this forum!

Keep the pick and try and move up to the high 30s. If not, you get a rookie anyway, boom or bust you should always hit that draft well.

I agree that we just need to make a damn decision on Edwards, Waters and Fall. I don’t even care either way (keep or punt), but having them watch games on the bench for another season doesn’t help us at all.